Weapons Upgrade System.

[kimahn]

Hi, my arsenal i starting to look like a pawn shop front window. this is quite sad, and i can imagine what is happening in the head of a newbie so ... i tried to find a way yo subdivide the weapons in families, put them on a scale, then give them a way to be all equal in the end :)

 

the concept is simple, exploiting the mastery rank system :

 

 

- an upgrade system (a classic+1, then an adjective),

- a new class of weapon, that cannot be potatoed, cannot be formaed but cost nearly nothing to craft, something made to demo various weapon types, and the "core" of any weapon in the game, with a very low xp requirement per level

- the weapons could be made with the previous weapons, in this way, you keep the formas already put on it OR could be made directly with a traditional bp.

- these upgrades could be made is a new dojo element ( like a trade post) OR in the public hub ( perhaps the public version could be a bit slower, but the nubs need to have access to it )

- if a weapon is in the upgrade lab, it is unusable until the end of the said upgrade, the lab could hold a primary, a secondary and a melee at once for every player

 

 

explain at each rank what is unlocked. at low level, each plan should use the appropriate mats : each family should have a starting weapon who needs 3h max to be leveled, so we could try each style and choose what way is appropriate

 

 

i pucture a menu more graphic, like a tree line with the nub weapon at the start then subdivisions between the races, like a genealogical tree, it show you the weapons you have, the rank where it started, the upgrades possible and when you click on it, you equip it, if you dont have it you can either buy the bp or directly with plat (if possible)

 

 

the goal is to give the feel that every weapon is a part of a cycle, a progression, and perhaps a less overwhelming number of weapons

 

each faction could have a unique style :

 

- orokin favors speed

- corpus favors status and elemental

- grineer favors raw dmg

- tennos favors crit

 

it doesn't mean that weapon need to be better or worse, just different

 

if you look the graph, i tried to express that in this way :

 

a furax+0 should equal an Ankyros+3 in term of sustained dps ( the production cost and xp scaled proportionally )

a furax wraith+4 should equal a seval dex ( yeah idk the claw names, sorry)

etc etc

 

in this way, using a weapon should not be a power hunger but a choice of orientation, the dmg being equal at the end

 

for the upgrade itself ... simply put the weapon in the machine after lv30 or at any stade after a forma, let it cook 8h with some mats ? each mastery rank could allow an upgrade ?

 

for the morph ( salvage to furax ) it could be something like the original weapon+mats+12h

 

for the unleashing ( prime, wraith, vandal, dex etc ..) it could ask a fat chunk of mats, parts that can be founds in various missions ...

 

again, an example :

 

rk0 : craft salvaged power fist >> im fine with having no stance and not being able to forma it >> rk3 : i could either morph it into a furax, OR an ankyros +2 OR continue to level it quietly into a salvaged+3 >> rk 15 : ok, i start to feel stupid with my salvaged +15, i want to make my choice now, i can do :

 

an ankyros+14 ( cost : anky+ 14*a little supplement but significantly less time needed )

an ankyros prime+6 ( cost : anky mats, priming mats and the supplement )

 

a furax+12

a furax wraith+4

 

etc etc

 

and now .. the damage scaling :

 

first of all : get rid of serration, pressure point and all these mods ( good luck with that HAHAHAHEHEHE -cough-)

 

these mods are (for me atleast) a way to scale the weapon that works until the point ... it does not work anymore. around rk8, when you probably maxed it, or at the start of the game if you bought it with plat (a prime access can grant you nearly all the main mods if you are patient enough).

 

then it could be something like :

 

salvaged ( the master scaling of the weapon )

 

+1= 1 rank of serration

+2= 2 ranks

+3=4

+4=6

 

etc ! (in my head this is quite simple, scale the salvage, then copy stats, scamble them a bit to fit the race, put a different name and skin, poof, scaled weapon. good luck with that too :p)

 

UNLEASHING : using that kind of upgrade should be a big step in the "life" of it, it could add a static% of the weapons stat :

 

[furax wraith]      = [furax+8]+ (10% basic dmg, 5% speed, 10% stam consumption etc)

[furax wraith+2]  = [furax+10]+ (10% basic dmg, 5% speed, 10% stam consumption etc)

 

EDIT : an unleashed weapon should be a deadend branch, i mean :

salvage >> furax >> furax wraith OR furax ++ that can evolve into .. a pilebunker ? if you want to crafdt pile bunker you have to start a fresh furax or directly buy a bp if possible (for the examble, hold your fruits people)

 

 

 

 

corpus style upgrade lab ?

 

 

and finally ... if you want to build another fist ... you can either :

 

build a new salvaged, and start all over again.

buy a bp a start with the race weapon. it take part in the tree like an upgraded one

buy it with plat and start with the race weapon. "

for the unleashed ones you can loot parts and use specific ressource. "

 

so ... questions ? :)

 

 

side note : it would probably help weapon design too, you ll know instantly what race is lacking of weapons in what type, and ankyros could subdivide into prime OR another one etc ... useless to say .... we could have 54254354 powerfists and we ll be perfectly happy about it :)

 

Edit : i forgot about the stances .. each weapon creation could give you access to a new knowledge .. a new stance. it could just unlock a one time "luck boost" on the specific mod, or we could craft it in a mod foundry or ... well you could ... JUST GIEF THE DAMN STANCE erm.. sorry.

Edited June 7, 2014 by kimahn

[SpilockT_T]

Errrr,

it looks so complicated! O_O

[kimahn]

it looks like it, but with a graphical interface, i could be super simple really, imagine a family tree, where the male is a bunch of mats :) i forgot infested branch .. shame on me.

 

i dont master flash enough to make a demo menu ... i ll try to make a psd version ><

Edited May 7, 2014 by kimahn

[Quizel]

blinks twice, say whaaaa?

 

What do you hope to accomplish with this extremely complex all in one weapon? (I ask for clearity :D and granted I'm sure it's somewhat intuitive with proper interface and not as complex). 

 

->I think, if I understand your thought process, you just want to quickly test various weapons before devoting time and resources into it.

 

**The game flourishes by the fact you have resource dumps and I could also foresee a massive loss of platinum sales over the following months. 

 

****I'm sure I'd enjoy this new feature and what it has to offer but I don't think this would be a healthy change for the game regardless of how cool it could be. Unless you had to maintain the original weapon always in the inventory or something. Lastly, I'm pretty sure this would be a balancing nightmare for DE.  I really like the feel of the current weapons and how they deviate from each other.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Quizel

[Bryy]

I love the concept!

[kimahn]

the main purpose would be :

- a more intuitive way of choosing you game style

- more options over time, but less "brick in the face" effect

- the feel that you own your weapon, you polish it, you learn to use it

- evolution, progression !

 

 

** the ressources could be tuned, and each stage could be rushed with plat

 

**** i love rpg's, im used to that, i understand it could be a bit unnatural for a GoW player or a UT one :)

Edited May 7, 2014 by kimahn

[koolen]

I don't like it, actually we"re all equal, and you want to change that ? I don't like that

[kimahn]

actually weapons are not equal at all, really not. this is why you ll see people using penta/boltorP even if they hate it, i was thinking about a way to put them all side to side, if you show dedication to it :)

 

plus .. the Mr need to be pushed, i dont know a lot of game with overall ranks that are not exploited at all :/

[Chaosrain]

I'm not awake enough to read this in detail but what I've detracted from it sounds like the equipment progression system from Monster Hunter games.

 

Start with Iron Sword, upgrade to Great Iron Sword. Upgrade path branches into two areas - Super Great Iron Sword(path stops here, but let's say for your current progression in the game this is a great weapon you can use until something better comes along) OR Flame Sword(worse than the other branch right now but has further upgrades down the line that end up being better).

[Quizel]

So it's a build your own weapon tool given what's currently in the game, but rescales things so that dps output (regardless of faction) stays the same until you rank it up.

 

I think when war frame peaks, you'll have basically every possible combination of various weapon mechanics just with maybe the wrong weapon skin you want to play with.

 

I think there's just as much value in owning everything vs owning One.

 

 

In the end, perhaps one day the game will become pure sandbox (probably when it's no longer profitable for DE to continue to work on it) and users could modify the content how they please.

 

But for the time being, I think this idea drastically affects the core of what WF is and becoming.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Quizel

[kimahn]

hmm yes ! with more steps, but more or less the same idea :)) in the precise sytems, mods are like gems in monster hunters !

 

and the possibility to push a weapon as far as your rank permits, monster hunter has static weapons, and monsters with non exponential hp pools :)

 

So it's a build your own weapon tool given what's currently in the game, but rescales things so that dps output (regardless of faction) stays the same until you rank it up.

 

it permits starting players to have a choice of weapon without spending 100hours wandering in weird places, average players to have a huge variety without having to look for dps bench/thorycraft, there is no wrong choices

 

plus races clearly express a dps orientation, speed, burst, linerar dps, dmg over time .. proc .. you know what.

 

and i permits hardcore players lv +++ super hype to have weapons that can scale ad infinitum, so they could kill targets matching their rank, and stop trolling with powers (hopefully)

 

i dont think it s fair to have some "super" weapons rank 8 because this is the main target in term of plat sales .. highest achievable is rank 16, and they should not be limited by that, in this way, everybody has plat to spend on something, of farm for a reason :)

Edited May 7, 2014 by kimahn

[kimahn]

****I'm sure I'd enjoy this new feature and what it has to offer but I don't think this would be a healthy change for the game regardless of how cool it could be. Unless you had to maintain the original weapon always in the inventory or something. Lastly, I'm pretty sure this would be a balancing nightmare for DE.  I really like the feel of the current weapons and how they deviate from each other.

 

 

they deviate in appearances, but im pretty sure they are theorycrafted to match their rank and stuff.

 

using a standard weapon as a "gold unit" would help this process i think, and avoid total letdown on certain weapon (spectra anyone ??)

 

i dont know what technique they use to keep balance and i hope this is not pure feedback, because if it is ... the next year will be horrible :)

 

im not sure i was clear i what i wrote but .. picture it like that :

 

gorgon and supra. how to balance that and make them tie together until the end ?

 

they could have the same stats, adjusted on their dmg type, and a "race_hidden_statbalance_weapontype" modifier :

 

gorgon : standard + dmg +winduptime - maxfirerate - accuracy

supra : standard -dmg - winduptime + firerate + accuracy

 

etc etc .. im pretty sure it could really help streamlining weapons without huge holes and without dissolving them !

 

and if the difference in dmg is something lie 19k212dps vs 18k990 ... aside from extreme power creeps, im pretty sure it will be tolerated by the majority :)

[-FrostByte-]

approved by me