Trinity 9.8: Feedback Thread

[Casardis]

Cast Blessing over your Link... You get the Invulnerability from Blessing, but you will still deal damage with Link. Having two Invuln. abilities on the Warframe was just overkill.

The problem stems from what appears to be a lack of damage reduction (as promised), not a lack of invincibility.

[Mak_Gohae]

Alright just tested Trinity and .... she is weird? I, mean, i actually like the combo that was created with WoL and EV because it's really, really smart and the faster casting animation of her 4th automatically makes that better but Link is pretty much dead.

 

Well of Life

 

It Bastilles one enemy and he apparently gets 10x the amount of life or armor? I dont know if this is a bug or intended but it seems intended. He basically becomes a health dispenser. While he is floating there you could tap him whenever you want to get your health back. I was using Dos Broncos with a bunch of multishot and i had 600 health and i could get 300 back with one shot. So the health gain was very quick at max rank. Since the enemy in the effect has a bunch of life he could be tapped several times.

 

Energy Vampire.

 

EV is now based on ticks to get energy back and problem here is, OF COURSE, that you could kill an enemy before even a tick goes out. Most of the time i was able to get one tick of energy back before i killed them. This was on Ludo, i think is the name? A Ceres Extermination mission with Grineer around 50. The Elite with shields i could get a tick but others without that i could kill quick may not even give a tick of energy back some times.

 

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTT! The big but here is..... WoL! The health dispenser can ALSO be turned into an energy dispenser! Since that dude is just CCed there and you will only shot at him when you want health back.... why not cast EV on him as well? He is not going to be killed quickly so you will get at least more than one tick back.

 

Outside of that, though, this power is not nearly as useful as before.

 

Link

 

Link is not going to save you so Link is basically gone. Link is now a per-emptive rather than a reactionary power. If you taking a bunch of damage from a bunch of people and you are about to die you no longer can rely on Link to save you.... what is actually going to save you is Well of Life.  Because, heh, it is now a Well of Life.

 

BTW, Link is linking to cameras which,of course, dont do damage so some of those links are wasted. Cameras have always been a problem with some powers so i dont know if this can get fixed. Now that im thinking about it... will cameras be counted on the Bastille limit of enemies? Well, that is a discussion for another thread.

 

Blessing

 

Faster cast time so...... it's goooooooooooooooooddd. No problem with this.

 

 

 

The new tactic with Trinity is constant casting of Well of Life to stay alive because not only does it CC one enemy but it does keep you alive with massive health gain. Link is nothing but a little ban-aid since it's not going to save you. Energy Vamp is now linked to Well of Life because that CCed enemy is going to be the only enemy alive long enough to give any real amount of energy back. And in full teams were enemies get clear quick..... i dont think that even an enemy in the WoL CC is going to last long enough.

 

I think what ended up being done is that she is now has the same basic survivability while soloing, its just done in a different way, while her team play may have taken a hit. Cause even with the fact that the WoL CCs an enemy that has a bunch of health, people are just going to storm through and you wont get a good amount of energy back if you put EV on him And this is what most people care about, the energy. I think that she is now really going to be focused on Blessing since it's a faster cast. Pugging is going to be pain but in made groups she will probably work a little better.  

 

PS- now that im thinking about it.... yeah, pugs are just going to rush through. I didnt notice WoL Bastilles one enemy until i went solo. There was this one dude in a pug i popped into in Plut saying, "Did i just see a Bastille?" And everyone else were all confused because there wasnt a Vauban in the team. I didnt notice it because i was in the back looking at the numbers go up and down. This might turn into the Mind Control situation with Nyx where people would kill the MC enemies quick so i would have to MC enemies all the way in the back. Now we have to inform the masses to NOT shoot the floating enemy. Ugh.... that's going to take some time.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[holyicon]

Having two Invuln. abilities on the Warframe was just overkill.

It's true, both Link and Blessing used to prevent all damage; however, Blessing did nothing to stop knockdowns, impulses, stuns and staggers. Link did not prevent damage unless it was attached to something (and really only redirected a very small amount of the damage it prevented), and did not stop knockdowns/staggers from Runners or Grineer Rollers.

Also, Trin did not have a "Kill everything and walk away like a badass" button. So, you're basically expecting the Trinity to either handle that job with a weapon alone (a task no one has issue with Nova/Vauban/Ember/Excalibur/Etc... using an anbility to handle or even discourage spamming that ability). OOOR. Wait for a Hero to save her from the big bad bullies she can't kill by herself.

Keeping YOURSELF alive long enough to aid others is a precious ability. And should not be overlooked. And providing a distraction, or casting cover to rez an ally was part of what Trin's job WAS.

 

Edit:

Also, while link was up, Corpus Shock-wave attacks would still impulse the Trin, causing her to roll in a random direction, then lock your attacks while you stood up.  Meaning they could still interrupt a rez or blessing cast (though the latter isn't an issue now). The point being. Link and Blessing were NEVER God-Mode. They only LOOK like god mode to the other team members that don't appreciate the person playing the class.

Edited September 6, 2013 by holyicon

[KaraLotus]

Yay!

[Trividar]

Trinity is the Warframe i spend the most time on and i really enjoyed playing her before this patch. She wasn't picked often, but for those who did she offered a lot of fun. I haven't played her that much after the patch but here is my feedback so far.

 

Well of Life: I like the disable WoL offers now, making the target stick out better and offering some small cc. It still seems like an ability that will be underused though since health regeneration alone never really seemed like a concern to me. Blessing still does the better job in sticky situations.

 

Energy Vampire: This was one of the main abilities that made me play Trinity before the patch. Its use for the team was very limited against low level enemies and it was hard to use properly without a stationary mission target. Yet it made me pay attention to my team in missions where we didnt rush through the level. I could pick a teammate i wanted to support and see what targets he goes for. Then i would use my Energy Vampire on one of those targets and let him kill it. Giving me the good feeling that i did something for my team. Also the high energy regeneration enabled me to cast Blessing frequently on high level defense missions (what made Trinity viable in teams).

Playing with the new Energy Vampire in comparison doesn't make me feel like i'm all that useful in my group anymore. The energy regeneration is really slow and doesn't fit into a fast paced game that Warframe is right now. Even when playing with friends i can't imagine them huddling around a target and wait for the energy unless it is really needed (what in itself is pretty rare). The rework robs me of my choice to give a significant energy boost to a player of my choice and instead gives me a lackluster ablity that requires the whole group to slow down for energy that most of the team probably doesn't even need. As things are i can hardly get the energy back that i need to cast this ability and it certainly doesn't help me to sustain the active use of Blessing.

 

Link: While i agree that a support doesn't have to be tanky i still feel like it helped trinity to fit into her role. She didn't have good damage abilities (she still doesn't) and that was fine. With an active Link Trinity could move around the battlefield and help out where needed (be it picking up players or using a well placed Enery Vampire). In my opinion the rework is a straight downgrade to one of her core abilities. I never casted Link as a damaging ability but for the damage immunity it offers and for the knockdown/ancient immunity. Other than that i feel like fighting bosses was one of the few situations that made Trinity shine which was unfortunately taken from her with this patch.

 

Blessing: I had no problems with the old blessing and i have none with the new one.

[solidsnak]

Pretty much agree with the sentiments above.  If I cast energy vampire on a target and it dies before a pulse then I wasted the casting and I'm better off not using it on anything that is not a boss.  I should not have to "protect" a target to get benefits from an ability.

As for link, better raise her base shield cap or roll it back to how it was, limited time damage reduction doesn't really help if you can't even have high shields, maybe a temporary shield cap boost for duration at least then she might survive to the end of the ability on higher levels.

[ChameleonDude]

I feel like everything that needs to be said, has been said already. But since these changes are clearly the result of us not saying things enough, I'll repeat what many have said:

 

Well of Life - This change seems good. It was a weak skill before, possibly useful now.

 

Energy Vampire - No. Just no. Before we could get our energy before the target disintergrated in the midst of gunfire and special effects, now we get a pulse. I love the concept, but it just isn't functional. If anything, change this back and make Well of Life a pulse (that remains after the target dies) - like necromancer 'well'-style spells in other games. The attempt to add damage to Trinity was a nice thought, but you've removed it with this update.

 

Link - That removed damage I just mentioned? It was here. Link was Trinity's damage. Link was Trinity's survivability. Link was Trinity. I can't say I've tested it against crowd control or disruptor shield/energy drains yet... but Trinity desperately needs those too. How can the support support if it can't survive? How can Trinity solo without their damage and survivability skill. The AoE was a nice attempt, but this worked best as a single target. Please just change this back, then fix the damage and effects that were still breaking through it. Yes, the Trinity could use this to become nearly god-like. The thing is, using Energy Vampire and Blessing, Trinity is still nearly god-like... just not as effective.

 

Blessing - The speed at which the buffs reach allies is nice, it will save a few tenno; but I'd gladly relinquish it for the old Energy Vampire and Link.

 

You've tried to make Trinity a bit more interesting while fixing some long-standing balance issues and you really had some good ideas here... but you have just pushed the few of us who played Trinity away from it and the support players away from the game really. If you want to nerf something, take a look at Nova instead.

[Tyrian3k]

I've just played Trinity and generally like the changes to her. I do have some issues, though:

 

Energy Vampire/Well of Life:

I like the concept of Energy Vampire, but I would kind of like it if people wouldn't need to avoid killing that enemy.

How?

The debuff on the enemy will work the same way, but radiate energy to all players near it, after a certain percentage of its life has been lost (not all energy is distributed in one go, though).

Edit: Since it can potentially hit an enemy with a lot of life, the ability should still deal damage depending on the enemy's life (as it does now), so that it triggers itself and doesn't stop Trinity from casting it again.

The same thing would work for Well of Life: Shoot the affected enemy to create area heal effects for all players.

 

 

Link:

It's fine against your usual enemies, but this skill in particular becomes quite useless against very strong enemies, as it requires the player to get hit for it to actually do something. I do like that it prevents poison from damaging health as long as it is in effect, though.

 

Blessing: Definitely an appreciated change.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Tyrian3k

[noneuklid]

Link: No longer damage immunity changed to damage reduction, now links to several targets at once amplifying the incoming damage. Increased radius search for link targets.

 

Love it.  Might still be OP.

Blessing: Animation speed changes and timing. No longer wait till end of casting animation to get power effects.

 

Almost certainly needs to be adjusted downwards.  I think either an unlimited-range heal or the invuln effect is enough on its own.

 

Those being said, I'm not looking for a Trin nerf just yet.  I'd still like to see you get the other two abilities in a better place.

Well of Life: Now plays reaction animation, Life is 10x multiplied allowing players to leech enough health out.

 

Like others have said, there's no reason to use this as long as we have Blessing (and while you probably should nerf that ability eventually, not just yet).  Two routes you could go with this appeal to me:

 

• "Presence" of Life : Either summon a roaming pet with an aura, or center an aura on the Trinity herself that radiates healing.  Very straightforward.

   

• "Outpouring" of Life : This is a triple-use ability, which is kind of nice for the Trinity.  Two of its effects are on the enemy -- one is the current Well effect.  The second is that each time the enemy takes damage, their max health is reduced; they're healing players out of their own life force.  The last effect is that the ability can be targeted on a friendly player and cast, creating an HoT.  This differentiates it enough from Blessing to make it a useful ability in its own right, without removing any options from Trinity.

   

 

Energy Vampire: Now plays reaction animation and doesn't require damage to get energy. Instead target radiates a set amount of energy every couple of seconds. Also does damage to the target (Damage scales with strength mod)

 

Gah.  It sounded cool, but I really should've seen this earlier -- kudos to those that did.  This ability incentivizes not killing the enemy it's on.  Sure, it's great for bosses, but most of the time an ability that just caused the enemy to spawn lots of energy orbs on death would be better.

 

Hm.

 

Well, why not?  (Or it could be an AoE of energy return on death.)  There's another, somewhat more badass option, though: have Energy Vampire jump when its target is defeated, and have the damage and pulse-rate increase for each jump until its duration expires.

 

One final option: have Energy Vampire affect the Trinity only, causing her to lose health over time but gain health and energy whenever she deals damage.  Great Link synergy!

Edited September 6, 2013 by noneuklid

[Turtleshellon]

I need to try Trinity out one day

[CaptainohCaptain]

The problem stems from what appears to be a lack of damage reduction (as promised), not a lack of invincibility.

There is no lack of damage reduction. Tested it, 66% reduction on the max level.

Also, damage seems to net to a whole pack, not simply divided over them.

 

WoL looks nice and damage reduction to gripped enemy lets you actually use it to leach some HP.

EV sure needs some work, but it's awesome in solo and stun brings some tactical use. The only thing I suggest is rendering victim immune to any AoE attacks on the duration.

Blessing? I don't know, I had it fine before.

[Jiala]

So ran Trinity through a few missions to test the changes for myself.

 

Interestingly, her well of life and energy vampire now function like a single target stun. They don't really address the problems the two skills had before, that of only really being useful against heavy/boss type enemies. But that does add some functionality to the abilities that Trinity was lacking before and gives her an option for a direct damage ability.

 

That said, I actually prefer the way the old energy vampire worked over current. There was no real limit on energy recovery range for it, a marked target would give up energy to attacking players at almost all ranges. Now, even at max rank, you have to run up and hug the enemy to get any energy after casting, and some of the heavies will use their PBAoE attack even while the animation is playing of them bending over holding their stomach like they need the toilet.

 

Link is kinda meh now, may drop it from my layout, doesn't really do enough damage to any of the targets you're linked too, and no longer stops you from being bish slapped into oblivion by a swarm.

 

The issues with her well of life and energy vampire remain, but shes got more options now to some degree. Though honestly, if it weren't for the stun-type effect of the enemies hit with energy vampire, I'd call this a nerf to energy vampire then a buff.

[tigrex]

Crap 

Well of life is still useless as before.

EVampire dont even think of atacking the enemy or you dont get energy,you have to hug the enemy to get energy.

Link was trinys life saver and her dmg output now you just die on higher lvls before you have enough energy to heal yourself with blesing.

well congratz to  sucfully nerfing the least played frame in the game.

please tke this crap nerf back and give us the old trinity

Edited September 6, 2013 by tigrex

[Casardis]

There is no lack of damage reduction. Tested it, 66% reduction on the max level.

Thank you for the correction. I needed further testing.

 

 

Just a little feedback to add to the whole.

 

Energy Vampire: The rate the pulses give energy is a bit slow for this fast paced game, and Focus doesn't seem to affect it (why doesn't it do that instead? the damage dealt is so minor anyway), which is a shame. I seem to have to linger around a while in order to get my energy back. This works wonder on certain bosses though, in addition to stunning them for the whole duration of EV (probably won't work on unique bosses like Vor and Kril).

 

Now here's something interesting. At max level, the pulses seem to have a radius of 20m. It also seem to be affected by Stretch, making the pulse regenerate energy from quite far away. I haven't tested if duration mods affects this power, but I assume it does. Something else to consider is whether or not the pulses go through wall (though it probably does).

 

Well of Life: Is it intended that it heals the targeted enemy? As someone pointed out, this can be problematic against bosses. Other than that, it seems to work fine. Haven't tested its floating effect on bosses yet, especially heavier ones like Phorid (again, probably doesn't work on Vor and Kril, unless it actually pulls off a Rhino Stomp shenanigan).

 

Both powers can quasi-perma-stun enemies. I just used in on Ruk and he was helpless until death. However, doing anything that can knock them (such as a heavy weapon jump attack) will cancel the stun when they get back up (only happens to EV; WoL's floaty-Mcjigg will affect the target as soon as they get back up again)

 

Link: Damage reduction seems to be around 66% according to Icouldjustkissyou. Doesn't seem to be affected by Focus in terms of damage reduction (which also makes me wonder why, considering Trinity's pretty squishy unless you're constantly Blessing yourself).

 

By the way, Link still reflects back all knockdown and stagger as long as Trin's linked. She is also still immune to disruption.

 

Blessing: Nothing to add. The changes all benefits this power!

 

Overall I like the changes, but a few things could use some work because of the game's nature, especially EV (it will be useless with people like Nova and Rhino around if they keep on clearing rooms in a second, which is why decreasing the pulse delay may be better). How some of these powers react to mods could also be improved, such as Focus (instead of simply increasing damage output).

Edited September 6, 2013 by Casardis

[sknz]

The changes are a bit tricky i think.

 

I just found some things i dont really know if they are intended or not:

 

1. If you cast WoL on a target and directly after that, casting EV at the same target i get about 4k dmg per tick on the target on lvl 78 ancients.

     without the WoL on the target i get like 311 dmg on the same target? is that intended?

 

2. Link: Is it intended that the dmg of my teammates is redirected too? My friend was shooting at me with the Ogris and every single bit of the dmg got redirected to the enemys linked and i didnt even got a scratch to my shield?

Acrid didnt work though

 

For the changes to WoL and EV:

 

If you cast them both on the same target its much more efficient than on a single target. But there is a little bug i think. I cant cast EV a few seconds after i cast WoL on the Target. But it works right at the first second after i cast WoL and vise versa?

 

EV: Is there a tick of energy right when you cast the ability? If not why not change it to that?

[Silver_Hawk]

I just uninstalled warframe.   

I went and test ran my "new" Trinity, and was disappointed in how my skill set and role in the game had been altered.  I test ran different mission types and different difficulties, and I just can't see her as a viable frame now.  

 

My gameplay style is forced from being a "paladin" like character where I can bubble, aggro, and regroup, to merely a support role, hoping I've been partied up with strong frames than can handle the crowds or heavies I can't.  All I can do is supply them with a slow feeding energy buff and an occasional blessing if I can garner enough energy from the new Ability 2.

 

I then went to my other warframes, because I've paid and played to have four, but they only disappoint me now too.  Volt (we know why) Ember (don't want another paper) and Loki (I want to do more than play Solo next to 3 other frames).  After having a paladin class, nothing else satisfies my gameplay style now.  And, it's time we parted ways Warframe.  I won't be playing again, but will check up on updates and maybe I'll be tempted back by some exciting balanced classes, but I doubt that.  

Thanks for the fun, and you are all doing a great job.  I've never been in a more organic game before that evolved along with the fans and players.  I hope your platform launches are a great success, but take note that you lost one paying customer who feels like you changed one of the few unique classes, my class, before thinking it through.  

Edited September 6, 2013 by Silver_Hawk

[Alighierian]

my observations after a while with my lobstershark:

- energy vampire: it's better now, in a way. it acts as a stun lock whilst giving energy and doing a bit of damage. also works on those annoying bombards and such. but not getting energy for damaging the target is simply bs and counter-intuitive.

- link: practially useless. even ~lv20 grineer chewed through my shields quite easily. only works for giving you a slight bit more resistance. don't exactly use it much nowadays.

- blessing: practically the same but at least it doesn't feel so slow now = great

 

I don't mind not having invurnability with link, since blessing already does that, but the percentage of damage link actually negitates seems too small.

 

link and EV need some looking at

Edited September 15, 2013 by Alighierian

[Casardis]

EV: Is there a tick of energy right when you cast the ability? If not why not change it to that?

There is one right after casting, immediately giving back 50 energy I think, or less.

 

EDIT: 25 energy per pulse. That's quite low, especially with Continuity and Constitution making the delay between pulses LONGER.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Casardis

[Zeritol]

Some of these I like some i think need some polishing.

Well of life: Now is a mini bastile on one target and gives back life faster. Is easier to recognize and keeps the target from running. has some viability even if you dont need life to simply stun one target. Very nice improvement.

Energy Vampire: It also stuns and seems to give a nice ammount of energy per pulse and the first puse is instant. However it promotes NOT killing the target and thit is counter intuitive. Also before this patch it was "glowy bule thing kill it for energy." and now its "glowy blue thing make sure no one hurts it at all for energy." Its a strange transition to take. I dont mind that we dont have to do damage on the target but thisactually makes the issue of using it on weak targets worse not better as if the target dies quickly you are guarenteed to lose energy now. If it moved around after the target died or refunded some of the energy you would have gotten that would fix this problem. You could aslo make the target imune to damage except from EV itself but thats has to high of a troll potential I think.

Link: Hits multiple targets now, no longer immune to damage. Some have said the resistance is 66% ish. If thats true then this seems ok to me as trinity dosent need 2 abilities that make her immune. Ive had some fun making vor kill all his minions so far. I think this will be a fine ability once people get used to not being immune.

Blessing: much harder to die while casting now. Might still be possible but it hasent happend to me yet. A very nice improvement in my book.

If Energy Vampire not be wasted by having the target die quickly and promoting NOT killing the target then I am all for these changes.

[Casardis]

I just noticed something about Well of Life. At first I thought it was a bug, but it doesn't seem so anymore.

 

When you cast it on an enemy, it appears as if you healed them. However, it actually gives them a secondary health bar (more than their initial health) so you can leech from it. When the cast time is over, the enemy will revert back to their normal health bar, also with all the damage dealt initially to their HP.

 

Not sure if the damage done to the secondary health bar will be given to the initial health bar as well. Further test needed.

[Patemaani]

After testing around a bit with the new Energy Vampire (Referring as EV from now on) and For one I like the idea of pulsing energy but it haves two major draw backs in my option.

 

First one is that killing the tagged enemy actually reduces your energy gain.

Second one is little more shady in that power duration effects such as Aura helmet and Continuity mod makes tick interval longer.

 

Because of  first point EV becomes even less user friendly in teams due to enemies dying fast and Duration mods only make time greater when you might lose energy due to killing an enemy that is tagged by EV.

 

I'd have Suggestions on how to make these less problematic, firstly if Tagged enemy is killed it would trigger energy explosion similar to Mags bullet attractor giving energy if tagged enemy is killed, This would make it so that killing EV target wouldn't make you feel penalized on less energy.

 

Second would be that Duration mods would work to increase number of ticks EV without increasing interval of said ticks making duration effects again less penalizing on energy gain

 

Just snowballing some ideas and opinions on how to make game more enjoyable for me and hopefully for others too.

[Overkill.]

dont know i got a bad feeling about the change for her ...

so if reactive instead it also mean that as soon as i buff an enermy with 1 or 2 and my team mate blast them to pieces i just lost 75 energy for nothing...?

dont know why link have to change >.> it maybe make impevious dmg but ... as soon as the target die there a lag time when it switch taget and i get ton of dmg from higher mob or when u walking in the empty lot and mob spot u from a far and wellcome you with a raid of fire ... i almost die many time cause of it >.> so it not that op. it cant even handle Ogris dmg ... close shot the mob at close range with ogris 100% die or near dead because the damage doesnt absorb by the dead dude. tested die like 10x see if there a way.

so if it switch to reactive ... maybe set so that the enermy that die before the timer over would send the cap amount to the whole group instead.

and keep the dmg gain hp/ener but add the reactive element instead.

link if only reduce dmg should be an aoe that spread the dmg to all enermy in set area instead of only 1.

dont know about long term but atm after 500hr playing ... it just mess up for me.

[Casardis]

Second one is little more shady in that power duration effects such as Aura helmet and Continuity mod makes tick interval longer.

 

Hmm... Seems like a design fault at play here. It's like how duration mods made EV worse before they fixed it, so that it can be cast right after the target enemy's death. I haven't tested my Trin without duration mods, so thanks for pointing that out. Hopefully it gets fixed so it reacts like Saryn's Venom.

 

This might be why I thought the pulses were too slow.

[LrdRagnos]

Why did you change link. It was her best ability. Now she is completely worhtless on high levels. 

 

And making Energyvampire a dot was probably a nerf too. Especially on low levels when the enemys die fast.

 

Could you please change Energyvampire and Link back to the old abilities. 

[happyhafer]

Trinity the new boss solo killer XD

energy vampir drains ~10% of targets health per wave, after 1 use target has lost 50% health, after 2 uses another 25%.

no boss has a chance against my shade-energy vampir combo XD