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Trinity 9.8: Feedback Thread


[DE]Megan
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I feel like everything that needs to be said, has been said already. But since these changes are clearly the result of us not saying things enough, I'll repeat what many have said:

 

Well of Life - This change seems good. It was a weak skill before, possibly useful now.

 

Energy Vampire - No. Just no. Before we could get our energy before the target disintergrated in the midst of gunfire and special effects, now we get a pulse. I love the concept, but it just isn't functional. If anything, change this back and make Well of Life a pulse (that remains after the target dies) - like necromancer 'well'-style spells in other games. The attempt to add damage to Trinity was a nice thought, but you've removed it with this update.

 

Link - That removed damage I just mentioned? It was here. Link was Trinity's damage. Link was Trinity's survivability. Link was Trinity. I can't say I've tested it against crowd control or disruptor shield/energy drains yet... but Trinity desperately needs those too. How can the support support if it can't survive? How can Trinity solo without their damage and survivability skill. The AoE was a nice attempt, but this worked best as a single target. Please just change this back, then fix the damage and effects that were still breaking through it. Yes, the Trinity could use this to become nearly god-like. The thing is, using Energy Vampire and Blessing, Trinity is still nearly god-like... just not as effective.

 

Blessing - The speed at which the buffs reach allies is nice, it will save a few tenno; but I'd gladly relinquish it for the old Energy Vampire and Link.

 

You've tried to make Trinity a bit more interesting while fixing some long-standing balance issues and you really had some good ideas here... but you have just pushed the few of us who played Trinity away from it and the support players away from the game really. If you want to nerf something, take a look at Nova instead.

 

This.

 

I have tested the new trinity myself, and I can agree fully.

 

Link+EV were Trinity's bread and butter, and now both are getting a change that makes them somewhat less desireable.

 

I completely love the idea of the pulse, but, in a fast paced game such as warframe, making players hang around to get some energy really breaks the flow, not to mention the trouble you have to go to stop that target from instantly dying. Perhaps, a good way to change this would be to swap the functions of EV and WoL? I could see it working better if EV was spawning pulses upon received damage, giving that damage to everyone in the range with a common cap, while WoL would slowly deplete targets' health to release a massive healing pulse upon it's death or the ability's end, possibly with some overheal, too?

 

Trinity isn't the only one, who needs power quickly, and new power vampire isn't the solution as far as it breaks the flow so.

 

The new ilnk idea is nice, but... Trinity doesn't NEED damage. She is a support, and she should remain one. It's in her bones and blood, and as far as I am concerned, Link was a perfect support skill. Trinity doesn't have damage nor does Trinity have CC, so giving her invulnerability to live through long enough to support other players was the icing on her cake.

 

Sure, I can get 'ye olde' link by casting it and Blessing, but what is the point then if I might as well just stand around under Shade and bless/EV until I fall asleep on my keyboard?

 

I honestly appreciate the work Scott have done here, but I also really wish Warframe won't become the game of "it was good while it lasted".

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Link: No longer damage immunity changed to damage reduction, now links to several targets at once amplifying the incoming damage. Increased radius search for link targets.

I have to say I'm really not a fan of this one. I know that Trinity is pushed as the 'support' frame, however I've always found that if you spec her right, along with the correct helmet, she become a viable alternative 'mini-tank' instead of using a Frost or Rhino. Link was a fundamental part of such a build however due to the immunity that it gave. I always felt it was also balanced due to the downtime in between recasts (if you had the energy for it). The key was that if she was tanking, you needed to make sure that whatever you planned to kill was dead fast.. or else run for cover and away from agro for a bit before you came in for another attack.

 

Sadly with this change, I feel that Trinity is now condemned to be a 100% support character - which is generally not a fun role to play with random groups.

 

Trinity will for the foreseeable future sadly be sitting in my inactive warframe list, until the day that either Healing Support is changed to be more fun, or else she is able to fill another role.

Edited by Hendryx
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Energy vampire should be casted like blessing.

And be a buff on the warframe. Which will return % of damage done for the next say 5 sec. Trinity would then have to plan to cast this at the right time when lots of high HP enemies around for maximum return.

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First impression: love the new Trinity. She is much more interractive now. The new blessing is great, can be used to save teammates as soon as you see their health dropping. Well of life + energy vampire is a great combo. Well of life someone away from the pack and cast energy vampire is much more interactive.... than guys... I really hope your shooting the blue guy, but not too much and casting the spell every 3 seconds (which was annoying). Overall love the changes. I need some time to pass judgement on the new link, but having an aoe skill instead of 2 invulnerabilities is a big plus.

 

Side note: people need to stop whining and start using their brain now that she isn't a broken imba tank. Well of life = a stun that lasts forever + energy vampire requires the enemy to be away from the group.... I wonder how you can combo this in anyway..... nope no clue.

Edited by Oishii
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My idea for a way to change the original (and possibly the current) link to be more team-friendly was to allow it to be both castable on self (target enemy or nothing) and able to be cast on a teammate (aim reticule on the teammate). Rather than Trinity making herself tanky all the time, this gives the option of casting link on a Rhino, or buffing a normally non-tanky frame, who then gets into the thick of things, while Trinity can remain out as support. Link must not be made teammate-only, though, or else it would severely hobble any Solo players.

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I don't think you realize how much these changes ruined it for people who used Trinity. The people who've been using Trinity before this update, have formaed her a few times. I formaed mine 3 times. I no longer have a slot for WOL. 

 

My build was based off having lots of HP, so when my link, or Blessing ended I had some time to recast it and heal my self. Then used energy vampire on an enemy to keep my energy up. Now I can't do that.

 

My entire build and all my forma I spent on my trinity have become useless. It literally destroyed her for me. Which sucks because she was my favorite frame. Plus my only frame that I could go on high level missions with.

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I really enjoy all of the changes myself so far.

 

Well of Life and Energy Vampire are AMAZING now.

 

Link, while I'll probably get flak for this, being an invincibility was just broken.  It was too powerful.  The damage reduction seems to be quite strong, I didn't have any issues soloing a Tier 3 Exterminate void.  Well, I did when I messed up my order, and didn't realize I was outside of the range of the new Energy Vampire, I ended up losing a little bit of life.  But with the right playing, this worked out quite well with the extra damage, and it points out enemies hiding behind cover for me. :D

 

Blessing, this is great with the animation tweaks, and applying the effects sooner.  However, as I mentioned earlier, I still feel pure invincibility is broken.  If you can keep it up all the time, there is no risk and that's a problem.  I'll let you guys decide if it does need a change or not though.

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Blessing, this is great with the animation tweaks, and applying the effects sooner.  However, as I mentioned earlier, I still feel pure invincibility is broken.  If you can keep it up all the time, there is no risk and that's a problem.  I'll let you guys decide if it does need a change or not though.

 

I actually have to agree with you, I think it should be damage reduction or absorb instead of invicibility, but otherwsie I think all the changes are great and make Trinity really fun and overall more useful.

Edited by Oishii
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Dear god, if you have time extension mods in, you actually lock yourself in a longer lasting, same amount of energy returning EV.

Thats bad, but at least the mob always dies in under a sec anyway.

 

Further testing on new skills, new results in,

 

Link, seems to blow, not sure though, it may suck.

 

 

Blessing, better than it was.

 

 

The other spell, dunno, wont waste the mod slot putting it back in.

 

 

Energy Vampire, would work on a boss or solo, assuming you don't like haviing mods in to increase your blessing immunity, otherwise, blows.

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WoL and energy vamp go hand in hand now work like a charm I still find link as useless as ever for being a cleric and blessing is perfectly fine now

 

here is the trick for "old trinities" who thought she was a tank and advice for new trinities and old trinities who hated the old way she played

 

WoL something it gains a huge max hp and heals it then use energy vamp on it it starts to slowly take % damage and ever pulse gives energy and health adding to the survivability of link(still hate link tho) but while your doing that you can spam blessing even faster then the old 2-3 second cast blessing not really any other way to play just make your EV/WoL turret placement and protect it from your team mates so they keep getting energy while you make everyone invincible

 

I would recommend scott think about making WoL and Ev a little diffrent maybe make EV a Energy Well it creates a totem or something that regens energy that enemies can attack and you can heal with blessing and the new life vampire i am suggesting

and then make WoL Life Vampire and slowly kill something like energy vamp does now as it slowly pulses health with no limited range like EV has currently that way you can use that to fill up teammates on the fly

Edited by MoyuTheMedic
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Having used Trinity on a Survival run that lasted for a 1h 30m 43s run (http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/User:Brizingr5#Feats_of_Strength), here's what I have to say about this:

 

Well of Life: (pointless)

Will always be inferior to the simple blessing.  I have no idea why you even try to revive this skill. 

 

Energy Vampire: (bad)

Huge problem with this change.  Not only have you reversed the mindset of what people are supposed to do when they see an Vampired target (goes from "HEY SHOOT HIM" to "OMG DON'T KILL HIM"), but you put on a huge limiter in energy income.  One of the skills a good Trinity would have is to be able to use many energy vampires within a short period of time because targets would die off.  This would circumvent the 130 (with focus) max energy income limit that the skill had.  By changing the way this works, you have put an arbitrary skill ceiling on this technique to disallow players to go above and beyond in restoring their teammates energy.

Suggested fix for this will be in a separate post so it gets more attention than this wall of text.  (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/102830-trinity-98-feedback-thread/?p=1183520)

 

Link: (pointless for most)

I only ever used Energy Vampire and Blessing on my Trinity, ever.  Why should I be invulnerable but the rest of my team suffer damage?  Considering I have a huge amount of energy at my command (both orbs from kills by my team and Energy Vampire), there's really no reason why I can't keep Blessing up for the entire time (in fact that's exactly what I did for that hour and 30 minutes).  So the change to link not only crippled its effectiveness in keeping her alive to do her own role as a support, but you attempted to add on a trait that she doesn't do: damage. 

 

Blessing: (good)

Oh good, so it finally works the way it was supposed to.  A+

Better than I could put it Lstairi

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Playing it as we speak, duo style, perma ultimate builds based on Energy Vampire loops work better than before, Link is now useful to kill more than one target, Well of Life is actually useful for filling HP, Blessing is cool as before but even better.

It's a buff, guys.

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Just finished a Phorid run, with the Stalker as a guest star.  Just ONE energy vampire and Phorid was dead on his spot, and the Stalker at the second whisper decided to keep silent and run away.

 

I begin to sense a nerf incoming :((((((((((((

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I just uninstalled warframe.   

I went and test ran my "new" Trinity, and was disappointed in how my skill set and role in the game had been altered.  I test ran different mission types and different difficulties, and I just can't see her as a viable frame now.  

 

My gameplay style is forced from being a "paladin" like character where I can bubble, aggro, and regroup, to merely a support role, hoping I've been partied up with strong frames than can handle the crowds or heavies I can't.  All I can do is supply them with a slow feeding energy buff and an occasional blessing if I can garner enough energy from the new Ability 2.

 

I then went to my other warframes, because I've paid and played to have four, but they only disappoint me now too.  Volt (we know why) Ember (don't want another paper) and Loki (I want to do more than play Solo next to 3 other frames).  After having a paladin class, nothing else satisfies my gameplay style now.  And, it's time we parted ways Warframe.  I won't be playing again, but will check up on updates and maybe I'll be tempted back by some exciting balanced classes, but I doubt that.  

Thanks for the fun, and you are all doing a great job.  I've never been in a more organic game before that evolved along with the fans and players.  I hope your platform launches are a great success, but take note that you lost one paying customer who feels like you changed one of the few unique classes, my class, before thinking it through.  

 

I don't mean this in a bashing way, because it really applies to almost everyone posting not just you, but don't you think it's pretty short seighted to decide to quit the game entirely based on a patch that was designed to work hand in hand with U10, not the current system? The fact is every last bit of research people have done on the skill changes for these frames right now is very likely entirely pointless. 

 

I've said this in several threads now, but I love to beat a dead horse So i'll say it again. It was mentioned in live stream 13 (and I think 12 as well) that u10 isn't just re-designing how the armor scaling works, it's re-designing the whole damage system. it will have just as much impact on how enemies deal damage to us as it will on how we deal damage to them.

 

Think of the game in it's current state as one Warframe puzzle, and U10 as a different puzzle. All the pieces are shaped the same, but the picture is different. This patch was in my mind kind of like getting a few random pieces of the U10 puzzle early. Right now I feel like we have gotten these few puzzle pieces, but people are forgetting that they are pieces of the u10 puzzle, not the "current warframe puzzle". The pieces still fit in to place, but because it's a different picture it just doesn't work.

 

It's nice to get a sneak peak, but at the same time you really don't know what you're looking at until you have all the pieces and put them together. Right now we have all these changes, but we haven't seen how u10 is going to change everything so we have no real context on how things are supposed to work. It was probably not the best idea on DE's side to release the class changes before the damage overhaul in u10 for that reason. Because now we have everyone reacting to how class changes for a future model work with THIS model, not the future model.

 

TLDR: Until the damage overhaul goes live with U10 later this month; which is the damage platform the new class changes were designed around, we really shouldn't be judging the new class changes too extremely. Lets see how it all meshes with the new damage model, and then make judgements on the abilities based on how they work then. because right now, the current model is really just a state of limbo we are all in, it doesn't matter, it will be gone incredibly soon and with it things could change significantly. 

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I don't mean this in a bashing way, because it really applies to almost everyone posting not just you, but don't you think it's pretty short seighted to decide to quit the game entirely based on a patch that was designed to work hand in hand with U10, not the current system? The fact is every last bit of research people have done on the skill changes for these frames right now is very likely entirely pointless. 

 

I've said this in several threads now, but I love to beat a dead horse So i'll say it again. It was mentioned in live stream 13 (and I think 12 as well) that u10 isn't just re-designing how the armor scaling works, it's re-designing the whole damage system. it will have just as much impact on how enemies deal damage to us as it will on how we deal damage to them.

 

Think of the game in it's current state as one Warframe puzzle, and U10 as a different puzzle. All the pieces are shaped the same, but the picture is different. This patch was in my mind kind of like getting a few random pieces of the U10 puzzle early. Right now I feel like we have gotten these few puzzle pieces, but people are forgetting that they are pieces of the u10 puzzle, not the "current warframe puzzle". The pieces still fit in to place, but because it's a different picture it just doesn't work.

 

It's nice to get a sneak peak, but at the same time you really don't know what you're looking at until you have all the pieces and put them together. Right now we have all these changes, but we haven't seen how u10 is going to change everything so we have no real context on how things are supposed to work. It was probably not the best idea on DE's side to release the class changes before the damage overhaul in u10 for that reason. Because now we have everyone reacting to how class changes for a future model work with THIS model, not the future model.

 

TLDR: Until the damage overhaul goes live with U10 later this month; which is the damage platform the new class changes were designed around, we really shouldn't be judging the new class changes too extremely. Lets see how it all meshes with the new damage model, and then make judgements on the abilities based on how they work then. because right now, the current model is really just a state of limbo we are all in, it doesn't matter, it will be gone incredibly soon and with it things could change significantly. 

 

With all due respect, This update did change Trinity rather thoroughly, and not in a way that would be entirely different with a new damage system, unless they turned resistances and invulnerabilities upside down somehow.

 

Trinity was a great support frame with great survival skills.

 

Now she is a still good support with somewhat tedious skills. I honestly hope u10 will make it make sence, but so far I would root for old Link and EV that is fast and dynamic as opposed to taking a few minutes break.

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Playing it as we speak, duo style, perma ultimate builds based on Energy Vampire loops work better than before, Link is now useful to kill more than one target, Well of Life is actually useful for filling HP, Blessing is cool as before but even better.

It's a buff, guys.

A few points, if your running a perma ult build, you have no need of WoL, if your using both mods to extend your ulti time (which you should be) your actually lowering your energy gain from EV (it gives the same, takes longer unless heaven forbid it gets killed, then you get less) and link is wasting energy since your team mate will be a dps base, probably a Nova, who will kill things pretty fast anyway.

Oh, and destroy your EV most likely.

 

Edit, on testing, link seems to do far less damage than it used to anyway, maybe since I don't use focus, since it's worthless in an ulti based build.

Edited by Keltik0ne
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