Tazmanyak Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) I dont know what is the the best place to post this, so i'll go for Gameplay Feedback, as there is no "Network Feedback" forum :) I play warframe for ~5 months now. And since my beginings, i appear as a "not that bad" host. On standard missions, ppl dont complain, but on survival/defense/mobile defense, teammates report some lag. I dont have a top-notch internet connection ... no fiber here :/ But good dsl ... 11mbps dl / 0.90mbps ul http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/2997537375 Good for up to 110-120KB/s upload speed. So why do players lag in my games? After a lot of testings, i found this usefull software called "netBalancer" (http://seriousbit.com/netbalancer/) The free version is good enough to monitor bandwidth usage of each active process. Here is the result after 1 hour session: 60 to 40 min i'm host in a few missions, with only one teammate. upload max is 20KB/s 40 to 29 min i'm client in a survival mission. Low up 5KB/s and ~25-30KB/s dl 25 to 12 min, i'm the host on a survival mission, with 4 players. Max upload is 122KB/s! Yes, a 4-man survival eats all my bandwidth. I suppose it could even need more ... Some othere p2p games dont even need half what warframe requires, and those are the really bad coded ones! So, now, please DE ... I'm here to help. So tell me, how can i (we, all beta testers) help you improve your netcode? What logs are needed? Would be interested in other players performances reports too ... What are you b/w, can you host without lag? Maybe some could post netbalancer (or any other program) logs to compare? Thx for reading ;) Edited September 30, 2013 by Tazmanyak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
se05239 Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 One of my friends can only play with one other player. Anymore, and the party all get disconnected. Another one of my friends can play with one other without problem. Three and things start getting somewhat laggy.. and four is god damn unplayable. Yeah, players increase demand on your internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazmanyak Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 Me and my 3 mates are all from france. Next session, i will try to isolate bandwidth usage per connection, to see if there are inconsistencies between users. This post is also to try to focus attention on the subject. I'm a dedicated beta tester, ready to use dedicated software/benchmarks to monitor everything needed, and efficiently help DE to optimize their code. But, yep, they first have to call for help too ... :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low1991 Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 - bad program coding? DE could implement in an option where user can turn off such detailed movement like running up walls and stuff. and repleace those other players with some other in-animated objects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazmanyak Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 I'm not really sure all this consumes bandwidth (speaking of those detailed movements). Fact is: i think nobody but DE know what has to be transmited to host. Could do some packet monitoring, but it's certainly encrypted, and somewhat against EULA to try to decode them ... And my goal is not to be banned ^^' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazmanyak Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 Update: Just did a random alert mission (assassination) with PU. 95KB/s max upload rate to host the game. This is just insane ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerevar22g Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I agree, they need to optimize it a bit, for example, I got sort of slow internet and I cant host games for other people, they just lag to hell and back. Always have to ask for my friend to host and then invite me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkhAnubis Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) I think that the high upload bandwith is maybe related to the fact that if the hosts disconnects, any client is able to take over as host. In order to do that, each client needs to have a pseudo-replica of the server state and thus information about mobs/drops/etc that aren't near any player must be transmitted as well. 100 KB/s to host a 4 player game is insane and unfortunately DE seems not to care. This issue has been around since U7 at least and the new difficult content released in each update forces us even more to play co-op. I decided to simply not play unless my buddy with good bandwith is on. Edited September 30, 2013 by AkhAnubis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alteria Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 No wonder people complain that its lagging when I host. My upload speed is 15kB/s on average D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Narauko- Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Im ok with 2-3 but as soon as it hits 4 my hosting is screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaTooKa Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 There are apparently trivial things that get transmitted over network that could be removed from the synchronizing code, i'm not sure. Obviously there might be a reason to this, but maybe these can be improved. For example, early in our warframe days me and my friend noticed that drop positions are synchronized. So if you destroy a container and a health orb flyes far away, it lands in the exact same position for you than for the other players. I believe they are sharing the initial vector and speed across clients, and that's a cool way to have things fly around and be consistent for each player, but wouldn't it be less costly bandwidth-wise to have a hardcoded arc (calculated client-side) that throws each item in front of the container ? I'm sure there are more details like this one that might have been overlooked. Maybe these fixes are less significant if removed instead of changing other core aspects of the netcode :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countess_Hapmuhr Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I would be willing to assist DE with packet captures via Wireshark if required, I'm on a 100/10 Mbit connection in Sweden, so I've got plenty of network overhead to spare :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEsoJD Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I hate hosting in this game. It's the only game where I recieve complaints from my team mates even though I have a cable connection(30-40 mb download 4-8 mb upload). Can't really figure out what's wrong. It must be on DE's side... idk. I swear very early in closed beta they've must have been using dedicated servers because the game felt really smooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
low1991 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Im ok with 2-3 but as soon as it hits 4 my hosting is screwed. my game starts to lag on 3 players... major fps +ram usage when hosting for 4 players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytek85 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I cannot host a 4 player mission either. My upload is only about 110kbs and I have a network meter and it just gets capped and everyone complains. :( Thank goodness I can trade my keys to a buddy to host for me tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObviousLee Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 leave it to the french to not only point out issues, but bring freaking graphs to the party to prove it. +1 for you op, good food for thought in your post. my connection is fine unless im hosting as well. connection is 7mbps down, .6mbps up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuroraSonicBoom Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yeah, we had that discussion a few months ago. At the moment, I should be able to host at least one other player(35kb/s up), but 9 out of 10 times noone can connect to me. The ones that do bring down my fps to 25 while nothings going on. Back when I started playing around U7 I used to be able to host games all the time. Problems started happened after the void was introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manole10 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 snip I believe they are sharing the initial vector and speed across clients snip It's a lot worse than that; in laggy games you can't pick up mods that are wobbling a bit on the ground until they stop completely. Seems like every movement is synchronized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazmanyak Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 leave it to the french to not only point out issues, but bring freaking graphs to the party to prove it. +1 for you op, good food for thought in your post. my connection is fine unless im hosting as well. connection is 7mbps down, .6mbps up. Thanks for the kind words :) Sadly, my discussions with support didnt go anywhere. So i just gave up :/ Recent DE's annoucments about network optimizations disnt improve anything at all. A bit lazy to post new graphs, but the upload bandwidth need when hosting a 4 players survival is still the same: it caps my 1200kbps adsl upload speed. In my clan, we have to rely on the rare of us that have fiber/vdsl to host games. This shouldnt have to happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) That is at best average net and im having 0 problems hosting for 4 man squad unless they are far away. edit: faster than 82% is mainly due to fact that only cities have acces to such internet. Edited January 17, 2014 by Davoodoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazmanyak Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hopefully, you have no issue with 3mbps broadband connection :) Strangely, ping is not that good though :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulzscha Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 That is at best average net and im having 0 problems hosting for 4 man squad unless they are far away. edit: faster than 82% is mainly due to fact that only cities have acces to such internet. If you call that average... *cries in a corner with crappy third world internet in the PH* My 5mbps down / 2mbps up connection speed on wifi seems to be sufficient for hosting but when I need to use my mobile 3G internet either from a USB stick or tethered via my Nexus 4, it's a lagfest even though my speedtest results show the same speeds if not higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 If you call that average... *cries in a corner with crappy third world internet in the PH* My 5mbps down / 2mbps up connection speed on wifi seems to be sufficient for hosting but when I need to use my mobile 3G internet either from a USB stick or tethered via my Nexus 4, it's a lagfest even though my speedtest results show the same speeds if not higher. i pay 15 euro/month for that, i could have 190mbps DL speed for maybe twice that price but i really doubt that i will need such for at least 5 years from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilianJoe Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Internet speed is a problem which tends to solve itself over time... but it's a long time. In most places home internet is set up in a 10:1 fashion, so if you have 10Mbps download, you should have 1Mbps upload. 1Mbps (~100KBps) upload is, as the game currently stands, the target available bandwidth for trouble-free playing. So, people should have QoS set up, and the more bandwidth the better, for lower congestion. Download-only or download-mostly uses, such as Netflix, shouldn't interfere with Warframe, but torrents probably will. Capping torrents at the application level, plus setting up QoS on the modem/router will help. It's a high cost of bandwidth for sure, But the mode to ADSL2 and fiber is inevitable, so the problems is shrinking. If players can upgrade to 10Mbps or fasterconnections, it benefits all traffic, so it could be a good excuse for a faster pipe :) It does NOT mean they shouldn't be always trying to improve the network code though. But without knowing what's under the hood, I wouldn't judge the devs too harshly on this one. The server migration logic is a pretty advanced thing to do, instead of plainly dropping some players. I would prefer to have the faster host preselected before the game starts though. There may be room for improvement in the host selection/migration logic. Mybe in the actual information 'packetization' too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Nozes- Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 ja passou da hora para eles por um servidor nesse jogo em cada 10 partidas 6 sao quase impossivel de jogar por conta disso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now