Balance Adjustments To Frame Lineup

[Volt_Cruelerz]

This is a thread in which I will attempt to go down the list of every Warframe and try to suggest what I believe will make it so that its abilities will function better in the game, not just Endless Defense.  This is meant in a way as a supplement to https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/98511-overall-warframe-ratings-updated-for-10/'>this as that thread merely focuses on the status of current frames.  This thread is on the subject of improving the balance among them so that they are all viable.

 

Note: I am open to suggestions and constructive feedback.  I am not a master of every frame.  I have however gotten all to 30 and thus have at least decent experience with all of them.  My most frequent frames are Volt, Nova, Rhino, Frost, and Nyx (in that order).  I am not trying to present opinions as fact.  I do have reasons for my opinions and would be happy to calmly discuss them if you should disagree.  I am okay with revising the OP based on feedback provided that reasonable arguments are made.

 

Once again, this shall be based off the arguments in the aforementioned thread regarding the current status of abilities.  I measure everything there on a scale of 1-5 stars and shall attempt here to make all things 4-5 stars.  I shall try to stay closer to 4 as 5 runs the risk of being overpowered and that simply isn't good for the game.  I shall give the existing rating, the change, and the projected rating after the change.  Warframe values shall be the sum of the values for their abilities plus a fifth category that deals with their overall kit and synergy.  Obviously the worst possible total score is 5 while the best possible is 25.

 

If you disagree with an existing rating, please see my explanation in the related thread.  I want that thread to be purely about the status of existing Warframes rather than how to fix them.  That is the point of this thread.

 

I shall apply buffs to abilities that have low star values, nerfs to some that have 5 star values, and reworks to some abilities that have odd issues.  I shall avoid reworks when possible.

 

I would also like to make note that these are not all my ideas.  I have gathered and assembled internally a list of changes I'd like to see.  Most are my own design, though you'll see several from Phoenix and Solaurus among others.  I honestly could not tell you the source on many of the ideas.

 

Ash [13] -> [19]

Shuriken ***

Change: now addles the target, interrupting its current activity for a moment though it may resume normal firing immediately.  Addled targets cannot use active abilities for 2/3/4/5 seconds.

Explanation: this would give Shuriken utility and allow it to be used to help bring down heavies and bosses by disabling their abilities for a brief period.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Smoke Screen ***

Change: Upon activation, stealths all allies within 10/11/12/13 meters.  They will remain stealthed for up to 5/6/7/8 seconds or until an offensive action is performed.  The action that breaks stealth will deal 20% bonus damage.  Ash does not unstealth if he performs an offensive action.

Explanation: by making SS a team buff, Ash suddenly has a great deal more viability as a team-player rather than just a solo frame.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Teleport *

Change: Enemies within 2m of the target are stunned for 1 second, Ash cannot be staggered for two seconds, and the first melee action after teleport within 5 seconds does 40%/80%/120%/160% extra damage.

Explanation: this gives Ash the ability to actually viably teleport towards an enemy knowing that he'll be able to survive.  It isn't simply a death wish anymore.

Projected Rating: 3

 

Blade Storm ***

Change: attack can be stopped at any time by pressing 4 again, surviving enemies are knocked down, and animation is sped up by 30%.

Explanation: it takes a long time and can actually be bad for a team.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Kit ***

Projected Rating: 4

 

Banshee [17] -> [24]

Sonic Boom ****

Change: modify range to 5/7/9/11 meters

Explanation: given that it is the anti-pull, it would make sense if its range were a bit further.  Not a high-priority change though

Projected Rating: 5

 

Sonar *****

Change: none

 

Silence *

Change: replace with "Wail."  Description: "Banshee lets loose a deafening cry, deafening enemies."  Does 100/200/300/400 serrated blade damage to all non-deafened enemies within 30 meters and Deafen them.  Deafened enemies cannot hear.  They will walk around with guns raised, but will not fire at anything outside their line of sight.  If an explosion goes off and they are not currently engaging a Tenno, they will turn to face the explosion.  Any enemies within the radius that are already deaf receive 40/80/120/160 serrated blade damage instead.  Costs 60 energy.

Explanation: Silence is junk.  Wail should be much better.

Projected Rating: 5

 

Sound Quake ***

Change: pressing 4 again will cancel the ability.  Every tick of damage reduces enemy armor by 30% of the current armor.  Enemy armor resets 5/6/7/8 seconds after the ability ends.

Explanation: by mixing a QOL with a logical debuff, Banshee's ult should now be much better.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Kit: ****

Projected Rating: 5

 

Ember [13] -> [19]

Fireball **

Change: now costs 10 energy and can be cast twice as fast if single-pressed.  If held, functions as a flamethrower dealing 60/100/140/180 fire DPS per second and draining 20 energy per second.  Can hit multiple targets like the Ignis

Explanation: this just seems like a much better version of the ability than the current one.  I'm not overly familiar with Ember so I'm definitely open to suggestions here.

Projected Rating: 3

 

Overheat ***

Change: now reduces the armor of all enemies afflicted by the DoT by 5/6/7/8+3/3.5/4/4.5% of their maximum armor per second.  Effect is permanent and enemy armor cannot go negative.

Explanation: from a logical standpoint it makes sense that extreme heat could hurt enemy armor and it seems like it could make this a much better ability in the sense that it rewards her for going into the "suicide zone."

Projected Rating: 4

 

Fire Blast **

Change: all allied shots do 10%/20%/30%/40% bonus fire damage if they pass through the wall of flame and enemy shots at allies on the other side of the wall of flames have a 10%/20%/30%/40% chance of being off-target.

Explanation: fire can distort light and generally makes it difficult to aim.  In addition, this prevents enemies outside Ember's sphere of influence from murdering her instantly.  Also functions as a defensive perimeter

Projected Rating: 4

 

World on Fire ***

Change: may now target up to 2/3/4/5 enemies.  A given enemy may not be afflicted by more than 1/2/2/3 of these effects simultaneously.  Burning enemies leave fire trails that can burn enemies that traverse them.  A patch of a fire trail lasts for 3/4/5/5 seconds and does 30/40/50/60 damage per second

Explanation: a general quality of life buff as others have been, but this also attempts to make it really seem like she is trying to light the world on fire.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Kit ***

Projected Rating: 4

 

Excalibur [18] -> [22]

Slash Dash *****

Change: none

 

Radial Blind ****

Change: none

 

Super Jump *

Change: ground slam melee attacks activated while falling following the initial boost from this ability do a bonus 40%/60%/80%/100% damage as Physics Impact to enemies within 2/3/4/5 meters and knock them down.  Bosses are staggered instead.  Excalibur cannot be staggered while in-air following the use of this ability.  Excalibur can use this ability while in-air.

Explanation: with the ability to fly in and smash into opponents, as well as the much-needed quality of life change allowing him to use it in-air, I believe this will be a much better option for him.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Radial Javelin ****

Change: none

 

Kit ****

Projected Rating: 5

 

Frost [14] -> [20]

Freeze **

Change: AoE that freezes all enemies within 1/2/3/4 meters of the target for 2/3/4/5 seconds or until 10%/20%/30%/40% of their health has been dealt as damage.  Bosses unfreeze upon taking any damage and elites unfreeze upon taking half the standard amount of damage.

Explanation: this gives Frost very reliable crowd control by bringing a small section of the battlefield to a grinding halt.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Ice Wave **

Change: leaves behind an icy trail that causes enemies that walk over it to be chilled and 40% wider than it is currently.  Chilling path remains for 5/7/9/11 seconds after being spawned.  Allies can slide 70% further when on the chilled path

Explanation: this gives Frost a good way to slow the advance of a line of enemies as well as a team movement ability to a certain extent

Projected Rating: 4

 

Snow Globe *****

Change: snow globe is no longer invincible but rather becomes a series of ice plates in the shape of a dome.  If an ice plate receives too much damage from enemy forces, it will shatter, leaving a hole.  Dome is composed of 7 plates, each having 500/1000/2000/3000 health.  Each unshattered plate will regenerate 10% of its maximum health per second; when under fire, a given plate will regenerate at 3.3% of its maximum health per second.  Globe rotates around its vertical axis at 2/2.1/2.2/2.3/2.4 RPM to help distribute damage.

Explanation: I know I'll get raged at for this, but right now, SG is no different from the old Bastille except that it is for use against different factions.  It artificially extends the ability of a team to survive in defense simply because they are invulnerable inside it and it practically mandates that a Frost come along.  This change gives Frost the chance to defend his allies provided that the team is responsible.  Take care of the globe and it will take care of you.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Avalanche ***

Change: ragdoll-throws any affected enemies.  They become frozen to whatever surface they land on for 3/4/5/6 seconds.  After this, they will slowly unfreeze, bodypart by bodypart (in randomized order, though always starting with the head).  Another bodypart is unfrozen every 3/4/5/6 seconds.  Both legs must be unfrozen to walk, right arm must be unfrozen to fire, both arms must be unfrozen to reload, applicable body part must be unfrozen to cast abilities (so Shockwave MOAS need their legs unfrozen to stomp you while a Toxic Ancient needs its torso unfrozen for its poison aura)

Explanation: personally, I'm very fond of this and think this gives a nice and unique form of CC to Frost so his abilities aren't all the same form of enemy disruption.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Kit **

Projected Rating: 4

 

Loki [14] -> [16]

Decoy ***

Change: slightly larger AoE on the decoy and will continue to function for 1/2/3/4 seconds even after its healthbar runs out (unless this exceeds its maximum duration)

Explanation: a simple QOL change that should make it more viable later in the game

Projected Rating: 3

 

Invisibility ***

Change: Stealths Loki's sentinel as well.

Explanation: Does this even need explanation?  This has been requested for ages.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Switch Teleport **

Change: target is staggered for 1 second following the swap and enemies are unaware of your location for 3 seconds unless you fire your gun (and they are within earshot) or are within their line of sight.

Explanation: this gives Loki some survivability and makes the AI seem less inhumanly smart by effectively disabling their "tenno positioning system" that is built into them.

Projected Rating: 3

 

Radial Disarm **

Change: afflicted enemies no longer all wield stun batons.  They use weapons that actually make sense for their faction.

Explanation: honestly, I have no idea.  I personally don't get Loki's playstyle, so I don't want to alienate his actual playerbase.

Projected Rating: 2

 

Kit ***

Projected Rating: 3

 

Mag [18] -> [21]

Pull *****

Change: damage reduced to 100/125/150/175 Forcefield damage and pulls enemies to the feet of Mag once more.  Can now pull downed allies as it used to.

Explanation: while the current version of the skill is powerful, it removes the teamplay functionality it had before.  This should hopefully retain much of the power it has while restoring its teamplay value.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Shield Polarize ****

Change: none

 

Bullet Attractor ***

Change: replace with "Repulsion."  Repulsion causes Mag to float (WASD for XY planar movement, Crouch/Jump for Z movement), have 20% increased movement speed, deal more ranged damage and receive X less damage from range and melee (Ancient poison isn't reduced) where X=20%/23%/27%/30%/33% for 8/9/10/11 seconds.  Velocity of all projectiles fired for duration increased by X.  Costs 50 energy.

Explanation: No matter what you try to do to Bullet Attractor, it doesn't get that much better.  It just gets messier and messier.  BA does not play nice with accurate weapons and can draw fire away from the desired target.  It doesn't meaningfully add to the game.  It just makes inaccurate guns able to hit the broad side of a barn.  Even the Supra with Heavy Caliber doesn't need this.  My original idea was just something to make it play nicer with snipers, but the fact is, all I did was make an incredibly inelegant ability even more so.  As such, I just ended up replacing it altogether.  I'm sure this will be controversial, but alas, I feel it must be replaced.  The replacement basically makes her into a floating turret, capable of gunning down enemies more easily.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Crush **

Change: now does 500/600/700/800 AP damage

Explanation: Why this was ever reduced by armor, I never understood.  There.  AP damage.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Kit ****

Projected Rating: 5

 

Nekros [15] -> [19]

Soul Punch ****

Change: no longer requires the reticle be exactly over the target.

Explanation: in the heat of combat, being exact can be difficult.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Terrify **

Change: target cap changed to 10/12/14/16.  Enemies receive 30% bonus damage for the duration.  No more "power in use"

Explanation: the target cap seems a bit too low.  Also, a damage amp would be nice.

Projected Rating: 3

 

Desecrate ***

Change: enemies have a 10%/20%/30%/40% chance to actually drop something from their own drop table.  Corpse despawn timer increased by 7/8/9/10 seconds provided Nekros is within 30 meters at the time of death.

Explanation: Nekros is now much better at farming.  When specifically looking for the loot left by this ability, I came across two drops of Ferrite despite using this on every dead enemy I could find (no one was using AoE frames, so I feel like I probably actually got most of them).

Projected Rating: 4

 

Shadows of the Dead ***

Change: shadows act as they normally do now when left to their own devices, but if 4 is pressed while aimed at an enemy, they will focus it down.  If the ground is targeted, they will relocate to that position and then resume default auto-attacking behavior.

Explanation: By giving him some control over their actions, they become a much more potent mob than they are now.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Kit ***

Projected Rating: 4

 

Nova [23] -> [23]

Null Star ****

Change: none

 

Antimatter Drop *****

Change: when aimed at the orb, it travels 40% slower than it currently does.  Pressing 2 again will hurl it towards whatever you're aimed at.  Damage multiplier nerfed to 100%/175%/250%/325%.

Explanation: while this is a numerical nerf, it should be a substantial usability enhancement.

Projected Rating: 5

 

Wormhole ****

Change: none

 

Molecular Prime *****

Change: explosion now does 200/300/400/500 plus 15% of the dying enemy's health.

Explanation: this should nerf it when on lower-level missions, but should help it scale better and gives a reason to prioritize primed heavies rather than just lights as is currently the case.  MP can be a great boon to a team, but at lower levels devastates things so much that it can force other players to just go along for the ride.  Unfortunately, not many players like being forced to be passive in Warframe.  Hopefully this change will make it more enjoyable to use at all levels of play.

Projected Rating: 5

 

Kit *****

Projected Rating: *****

 

Nyx [19] -> [23]

Mind Control ****

Change: upon expiration of the buff, the target receives 100/125/150/175 Explosion damage.  Bosses take the damage immediately.

Explanation: while the ability doesn't necessarily need the love, it would increase its range of utilities substantially

Projected Rating: 5

 

Psychic Bolts **

Change: Bolts have 1/2/3/4 Puncture.  If they have sufficient remaining puncture, they will retarget after passing through their initial target.

Explanation: by doing this, I believe the ability will be much more useful as it will help compensate for stupidity of the tracking as well as giving them the possibility to damage more targets.

Projected Rating: 3

 

Chaos *****

Change: none

 

Absorb ****

Change: Press 4 to end early.  Every second that elapses increases the damage multiplier on all received damage by 10%/13.3%/16.7%/20%, starting at 100%.

Explanation: Because of Chaos and MC, Nyx often runs duration mods which also mean that her ult is absurdly long if left to its own devices.  Giving her the option to end it early is a must.  This change will make her ult far more usable.

Projected Rating: 5

 

Kit ****

Projected Rating: 5

 

Rhino [22] -> [21]

Rhino Charge ****

Change: none

 

Iron Skin ****

Change: if the shield is brought down, the armor will blow off notifying the player and Rhino receives a 20% movement speed buff for two seconds to help him escape a potentially deadly situation

Explanation: just a little something to help Rhino out when his overshield pops.  Might open up some interesting playstyles for Vanguard Rhinos as well.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Roar *****

Change: none

 

Rhino Stomp *****

Change: enemies more than half the range away "float" half as long as those closer to Rhino.

Explanation: RS has a huge range and can end all fighting for quite a while.  This is a mild nerf to make him think more about using it.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Kit ****

Projected Rating: 4

 

Saryn [14] -> [17]

Venom **

Change: Initial target is tagged with 4/5/6/7 spores and hitboxes adjusted to be more accurate

Explanation: this should make it a tad bit easier for inacccurate weapons to find one to pop

Projected Rating: 3

 

Molt ***

Change: continues to persist for 1/2/3/4 seconds after its health runs out, though its aggro radius falls off linearly during this time.

Explanation: this differentiates it a bit from Decoy while still letting it be of some later use.

Projected Rating: 3

 

Contagion **

Change: allies within 20 meters now add poison DoT's where the DoT does 20% of the damage of the strike per second for 4 seconds.  Saryn also gains a poison aura akin to the Toxic Ancient for the duration dealing 30/40/50/60 poison damage per second to enemies within 1.5/1.5/2/2 meters

Explanation: by making it a team buff, this should help Saryn be more of a team player.  If on a melee-heavy team, this could become very potent indeed.

Projected Rating: 3

 

Misama ****

Change: none

 

Kit ***

Projected Rating: 4

 

Trinity [20] -> [20]

Well of Life **

Change: I'd like one to be made, but honestly, I haven't the foggiest what to do with it.  I've never seen a change that addresses the problems well.  It just overlaps with her ult too much.  I'm afraid it may need to be replaced.  I don't play her enough to be confident in replacing the ability outright.

 

Energy Vampire ****

Change: EV now always lasts for 8 seconds and pulses energy every 2 seconds by default.  Duration mods now instead increase the frequency of pulses by decreasing the gap between them according to the formula pulseGap = 2/(2+2*modPercentage).  This can enable extra pulses to fire off.

Explanation: Helps to fix Trinity's odd handicap associated with adding duration mods.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Link *****

Change: none

 

Blessing *****

Change: none

 

Kit ****

Projected Rating: 4

 

Vauban [18] -> [19]

Tesla ****

Change: none

 

Bounce **

Change: convert it into a lift.  Any target that goes into it is now flung upwards but Tenno can remain up at the top, giving Vauban a mobile perch.

Explanation: this ability has no practical application in its current state that he can't otherwise do.  At least this is vaguely productive.

Projected Rating: 2

 

Bastille ****

Change: now prioritizes new targets and pushes all lifted targets to the perimeter of the AoE.  When it drops an old target, the target is staggered for 1.5 seconds and then is addled for 5 seconds.  If new targets are killed, old targets can be picked back up and will be carried to the perimeter.

Explanation: this gives Vauban a panic button by not only removing from play, but also relocating enemies that are uncomfortably close.  Also helps to define the difference between Bastille and Vortex.

Projected Rating: 5

 

Vortex ****

Change: enemies below level 20 are instantly consumed.  Whenever an enemy is killed by it, all enemies within its pull range take 10% of that unit's health as laser damage.  Duration nerfed to 6/7/8/9 seconds.

Explanation: this is more for the purpose of defining a difference between the current Bastille and Vortex.  Now Vortex is more focused on damage.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Kit ****

Projected Rating: 4

 

Volt [11] -> [20]

Shock **

Change: finish fixing chaining (it still doesn't sometimes), stun all enemies affected by the ability for 0.5/0.6/0.7/0.8 seconds, and deal 50/100/150/200 electrical damage plus 0/50/100/150 forcefield damage.  Damage per enemy does not decrease when multiple enemies are hit.  Energy cost reduced to 20.  If the target is "electrocuted," the target receives 50% bonus damage from this ability, is stunned twice as long, and allows the ability to chain to one more enemy (only one electrocuted enemy in the chain may extend the chain, else you'd get an infinite chain right after using Overload which would be OP and/or crash the game).  The electrocuted status will be consumed.

Explanation: this change should help Volt be a better caster

Projected Rating: 4

 

Speed ****

Change: remove FoV change and halve animation time of Shock

Explanation: as much as I really want to rip Volt apart into two frames (one a caster, the other a steroid gunslinger), this thread is about fixing what we've got, not adding more frames.  As such, this ability stays on him.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Electric Shield ****

Change: rename to "Aegis."  Allow shield to be mobile and follow Volt around, always floating in front of him.  If Shock is used while Aegis is up, Shock's damage is doubled and can chain to an extra 2 targets.  If an electrocuted target is hit by shots fired through the shield, they will receive 10%/20%/30%/40% additional electrical damage.  The status will be consumed.

Explanation: Volt-the-caster is broken.  He doesn't do a whole lot and this ability outright encourages gunplay.  Hopefully this change will help with that.  Once again, because I'm trying to fix Volt without creating a new frame in the process, this ability stays.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Overload **

Change: all targets affected by Overload receive 100/133/167/200 electrical damage and 0/75/150/225 forcefield damage per second for four seconds.  Affected enemies are stunned while taking damage.  At the end of the duration, all targets are stunned for one additional second and receive the "electrocuted" status for 30 seconds.  Electrocuted enemies randomly shoot off small harmless lightning bolts clearly identifying them to players.

Explanation: by building synergy into his abilities as well as armor-ignoring damage and a stun, Overload becomes much more potent and less suicidal.

Projected Rating: 4

 

Kit *

Projected Rating: 4

Edited October 14, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[Mampara]

I love them all, I really what you've done to Volt.

Great effort on all of this mate.

Just finished reading them once over, again. These are really nice. I love it!

Edited October 7, 2013 by GuRPHS

[CheeseHasLeafs]

This is very good, but I have to disagree on Loki's changes. 
I would rather have his Invis stealth his sentinel as well. Otherwise, it is fine as it is.
Also, his Switch Teleport does cause a brief 'confused' state of the enemy, wherein they will look around and act confused for about a second or two.
And his Decoy is squishy as a squid, so it'd be nice if it was tougher. 

Changing his ult to what you suggested would be nice, if only to make it slightly less silly in some situations.  

EDIT: I like especially what you've done to Frost, Ash, Volt and Nekros. 

Edited October 7, 2013 by CheeseHasLeafs

[Volt_Cruelerz]

This is very good, but I have to disagree on Loki's changes. 

I would rather have his Invis stealth his sentinel as well. Otherwise, it is fine as it is.

Also, his Switch Teleport does cause a brief 'confused' state of the enemy, wherein they will look around and act confused for about a second or two.

And his Decoy is squishy as a squid, so it'd be nice if it was tougher. 

Changing his ult to what you suggested would be nice, if only to make it slightly less silly in some situations.  

EDIT: I like especially what you've done to Frost, Ash, Volt and Nekros. 

I'm not just talking about the swapped enemy with Switch Teleport.  I'm saying all enemies should "lose you" for a few seconds.

 

As for the other abilities, I'd be fine with any of those.  I'll probably look at them again in the morning when I'm more conscious.  As I said, I'm not overly familiar with Loki as I don't like his playstyle, so I'm afraid to change things too much for fear of upsetting his actual playerbase.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[CheeseHasLeafs]

I'm not just talking about the swapped enemy with Switch Teleport.  I'm saying all enemies should "lose you" for a few seconds.

I see what you mean. Then yes, this would be quite good. 

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I see what you mean. Then yes, this would be quite good. 

I edited Invisibility to stealth the sentinel instead of what I had listed.

[Phatose]

I don't understand what your proposed changes to Desecrate are.  As far as I can tell, enemies already use their own loot tables when desecrated.  The only exception is bosses, and I doubt that will change simply because it would make Desecrate too important. 

[Seaverett]

This is really good. The changes you suggested would open up a lot of different gamestyles for old and new players Personally, I am fond of Saryn and hacking stuff and that Contagion change would be highly appreciated. If it happens, of course. +1 :)

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I don't understand what your proposed changes to Desecrate are.  As far as I can tell, enemies already use their own loot tables when desecrated.  The only exception is bosses, and I doubt that will change simply because it would make Desecrate too important. 

Enemies don't use their own loot table.  If you want quick evidence, play a game of defense without using it and one with it.  Desecrate's drop table includes a high chance for health orbs.

[Phatose]

If Desecrate had it's own drop table though, mods created by desecrate wouldn't differ between the factions.  But they do.

I suspect you're actually seeing a number of separate chances - one roll from it's own loot table, and another roll for a health orb drop.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

If Desecrate had it's own drop table though, mods created by desecrate wouldn't differ between the factions.  But they do.

I suspect you're actually seeing a number of separate chances - one roll from it's own loot table, and another roll for a health orb drop.

That still doesn't explain why it never drops resources.  The point of the suggestion was so that it would allow a second chance at resource drops.

[Phatose]

That still doesn't explain why it never drops resources.  The point of the suggestion was so that it would allow a second chance at resource drops.

 

If by resources, you mean Orokin Cells, Ferrite and the rest - it does.  I've gotten loads of them from desecrate.  If you mean BPs....I'm pretty sure that's intentional.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Phatose

[Volt_Cruelerz]

If by resources, you mean Orokin Cells, Ferrite and the rest - it does.  I've gotten loads of them from desecrate.  If you mean BPs....I'm pretty sure that's intentional.

I have never gotten resource drops as a result of Desecrate. :/ Did this just get changed or something?

[Phatose]

I have never gotten resource drops as a result of Desecrate. :/ Did this just get changed or something?

 

Been like that since day one.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Been like that since day one.

I just pulled Nekros back out and headed to a defense using Desecrate on every enemy I killed.  Over the course of 10 waves and using it on probably 150 enemies, I got two Ferrite drops to supplement the four or so I got from normal play.  If it happens that infrequently when I'm actively looking for it, no wonder I never noticed it before.  I'll revise the OP accordingly.

[PaperHat]

I like all of the changes, save (you guessed it) Frost's Snowglobe. Putting a damage cap on it renders it useless for "endgame" missions, such as (Even T2 Void) Defense even with the 3000 limit; even five or so light units would take it down in a few seconds.

It's extremely difficult to nerf it in regards to how it works, but personally, I'd increase the energy cost to 75 and slightly reduce the timer on it.

 

On the other hand, I reiterate that I LOVED the changes you've thought out for the other frames.

[astrobird]

I'm liking the adjustments to nekros, but I have to ask about how you feel about then energy cost and efficiency of desecrate. If you ask me it should really be an aoe or have a lower energy cost for sake of attractiveness. What's your opinion on it though?

[Ohmlink]

As always I like your threads, loving the change to volt's shield as it kind of turns it into a "you should always be using this kind of skill." Whether or not that was your intent I don't know, but I was always a fan of those kinds of "buff" type skills.

[NDroid]

Some very good suggestions overall, I agree with most of them. There are a few things that I would add or change though:

Terrify: from datamined info we now know it can only affect up to 12 targets, like Vauban's Bastille. This is the reason why some enemies just keep on shooting. The ones that are affected seem to behave as you would expect and I don't think they should run away faster- the idea is that you should be able to exploit their vulnerability instead of chasing them around the map. Also, because of the target limit the "power in use" limitation should be removed.

Venom: it should really be restored to its former glory (make the spores stack on enemies) with fixes only done to the performance issues it caused. It was one of them most fun powers in the game when properly utilized. The energy cost could be increased to compensate.

Bullet Attractor: I agree with the QoL changes you proposed but there just isn't enough of an incentive to use it on targets that aren't bosses, especially given the energy cost. I suggest having the explosion at the end stun those inside and next to the bubble.

Silence: it should absolutely be replaced but giving Banshee a second damage buff power seems redundant. I'll try to come up with some other idea later.

Finally, Snow Globe: given the game's current mechanics I'm not sure it should be changed. Still, if it must change then your suggestion is one of the better ones I've seen. Maybe having the globe rotate to further mitigate some damage would also help.

As a side note, I love the suggestions for Avalanche. I'm not sure if it can be implemented this way but the idea is great (and potentially hilarious).

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Some very good suggestions overall, I agree with most of them. There are a few things that I would add or change though:

Terrify: from datamined info we now know it can only affect up to 12 targets, like Vauban's Bastille. This is the reason why some enemies just keep on shooting. The ones that are affected seem to behave as you would expect and I don't think they should run away faster- the idea is that you should be able to exploit their vulnerability instead of chasing them around the map. Also, because of the target limit the "power in use" limitation should be removed.

Venom: it should really be restored to its former glory (make the spores stack on enemies) with fixes only done to the performance issues it caused. It was one of them most fun powers in the game when properly utilized. The energy cost could be increased to compensate.

Bullet Attractor: I agree with the QoL changes you proposed but there just isn't enough of an incentive to use it on targets that aren't bosses, especially given the energy cost. I suggest having the explosion at the end stun those inside and next to the bubble.

Silence: it should absolutely be replaced but giving Banshee a second damage buff power seems redundant. I'll try to come up with some other idea later.

Finally, Snow Globe: given the game's current mechanics I'm not sure it should be changed. Still, if it must change then your suggestion is one of the better ones I've seen. Maybe having the globe rotate to further mitigate some damage would also help.

As a side note, I love the suggestions for Avalanche. I'm not sure if it can be implemented this way but the idea is great (and potentially hilarious).

Terrify: That would explain things.  I'll update the OP.

 

Venom: The problem is, when I leveled Saryn, I never realized the true power of Venom until I saw a video after the nerf, so I'm not entirely sure how it worked.  Was it simply that destroying a spore on a target would give the target more spores rather than just infecting nearby ones?  If so, I thought the whole issue was the absurd lag it could cause and I don't think you can easily fix that...  I guess you could have an internal counter or something that simply makes it tick for bigger numbers instead of more small numbers...

 

BA: I agree there isn't much incentive for it, but honestly, I'm not a fan of the AoE at the end.  It almost seemed like Scott said, "Well, they hate this ability and I don't want to make a new one, so I'll just throw on another AoE.  Maybe they'll like it then."  People keep trying to buff it, but it has become so inelegant at this point by just tacking on new mechanics (including what I said in the OP) without any of them really making it that good.

 

Silence: let me know what you come up with.

 

Snow Globe: I don't feel it rewards player skill at all.  It's simply an ability that you keep online at all times or you die at higher levels.  It doesn't require skill to use (I know, I know, neither do most of the abilities in this game), but the ability is so powerful that Frost becomes obligatory in defense and lets players keep playing into waves where if they get hit once, they will die.  I do like your idea of it rotating.  On a similar note, what do you think of the possibility of it following Frost around so that it's more viable for non-defense?

 

Avalanche: glad to hear.  It is quite complicated, but I feel like it would put a very unique spin on his ultimate and be very fun to use.

 

 

I'm liking the adjustments to nekros, but I have to ask about how you feel about then energy cost and efficiency of desecrate. If you ask me it should really be an aoe or have a lower energy cost for sake of attractiveness. What's your opinion on it though?

I thought Desecrate was an AoE...  There have been several times when multiple enemies have been looted by it with one use.

 

I like all of the changes, save (you guessed it) Frost's Snowglobe. Putting a damage cap on it renders it useless for "endgame" missions, such as (Even T2 Void) Defense even with the 3000 limit; even five or so light units would take it down in a few seconds.

It's extremely difficult to nerf it in regards to how it works, but personally, I'd increase the energy cost to 75 and slightly reduce the timer on it.

 

On the other hand, I reiterate that I LOVED the changes you've thought out for the other frames.

Snow Globe from day one has, as someone put it recently, "artificially extended defense."  You aren't lasting longer because of any skill you have.  You are playing well into the range where the enemies are so powerful they could instagib you with a sneeze because you are effectively invincible.

 

Simply making it more expensive to use will mandate using forma to switch the polarity of the aura slot so you can equip energy siphon.  Also, what do you think of NDroid's idea where it would rotate?

[Phatose]

I'm liking the adjustments to nekros, but I have to ask about how you feel about then energy cost and efficiency of desecrate. If you ask me it should really be an aoe or have a lower energy cost for sake of attractiveness. What's your opinion on it though?

 

It already has an AoE.  A fairly large one at that - 25m at max level.  That's greater that maxed Miasma, and equal to maxed MPrime.

 

You just have to be aware that it only has a 60% chance of affecting any particular corpse in that range.  You can cast it multiple times to get them all though.

[Ivalician]

I think Psychic Bolts could use a moderate damage buff as well, it's a 50 energy ability, it should pack a bit more punch than it does currently. 

Edited October 8, 2013 by Ivalician

[Koloricsi]

Pretty much agreed with everything and just a small advice/info.
I am a loki player and i've got to say those changes would make him more viable indeed (again, well said) but one more thing. Radial Disarm is supposed to literally disarm infested, tearing their limbs down, so it would be really awesome if that would do anything to them apart from making them look stupid with one arm and leg (and reliably would do the whole tearing thing [sometimes it doesn't]).
 
Love every bit of your post. +1

 

[astrobird]

I thought Desecrate was an AoE...  There have been several times when multiple enemies have been looted by it with one use.

Well when I say AoE, I mean like 'room spanning' or 'for the next 6 seconds everything you kill has better drops' etc. etc.

 

I mean, unless you've seen desecrate actually work on something a decent distance away for you, in that case I need to seriously check my internet out.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Well when I say AoE, I mean like 'room spanning' or 'for the next 6 seconds everything you kill has better drops' etc. etc.

 

I mean, unless you've seen desecrate actually work on something a decent distance away for you, in that case I need to seriously check my internet out.

I've seen it work quite a ways away.  According to the wiki, its max range is 25 meters.

 

 

I think Psychic Bolts could use a moderate damage buff as well, it's a 50 energy ability, it should pack a bit more punch than it does currently. 

 

The problem with that is that it already does 900 SB damage.  True, Slash Dash does more, but at least Slash Dash can put you in jeopardy.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz