I Find Myself Becoming More And More Bitter As The Days Progress

[Luminati07]

Before I begin

This is an extremely long post.

 

THERE IS NO TL;DR

If you are not fond of reading, exit this thread!

 

V2 of this thread was locked at my request.

I had reached the word limit, and couldn't add to it anymore.

So, I'm making V3 to reserve the first reply (though, it takes so long to post, this is my 3rd attempt, you guys keep beating me to the punch)

 

Original post.

Ok.

I'm sure at least some of you are familiar with version 1 of this thread - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/110226-i-find-myself-becoming-more-and-more-bitter-as-the-days-progress'>Link

It was locked by [DE]Megan for being "derailed".

I'm not going to get into conspiracy theories or anything like that.

 

I'm reposting this because it's still a completely relevant thread. 316 upvotes, and 18 pages of almost universal support attests to that.

I even had some other players posting about my thread getting locked. <3

 

This thread is very similar to v1, but has some more stuff, and I've gone through everything and changed some things around.

Let's try keep this one on-topic. (even though the last one was only derailed for about 4 posts)

 

________________________________________________________

 

When I first played Warframe, I loved it.

I joined in closed beta, just after the Grineer Asteroid tilesest were released (I believe it was just around that time).

 

A couple months later, and I joined the forums, asking for help with Phorid.

 

My love for DE was paramount.

They were releasing quick fixes, new weapons, new tilesets. It was a dream come true after dealing with Tribes: Ascend, BF3, and countless other F2P MMORPGs.

 

I was one of DE's White Knights early on. I would come to their defense all the time. Something was broken? I'd defend them and say that DE will fix it ASAP.

And, they usually did.

 

Before I start, I could have my timeline wrong. So, bear with me.

 

Then Mod Packs came along.

I expressed my displeasure with Mod Packs, but I still defended DE. Because, I thought they'd change them.

They did not.

 

Mod Packs still remain as one of the worst things in the market.

If you're hunting that mod you've spent weeks farming, but because of the hilarious RNG, it does not drop for you.

You spend 90 plat, hoping that the 2 guaranteed rare mods will be what you are looking for. 

But, you  get Chaos and Bastille.

 

RNG not giving you the mod you need? Better spend real money on more RNG.

 

A fix I posted about Mod Packs a long time ago was this:

 

Instead of having the awful system we currently have, where every single mod is pooled into a single mod pack, which basically leaves your chances of getting what you're looking for to next to zero.

 

We should get something along the lines of this:

Warframe Mod Pack - Warframe mods. Redirection, Vitality etc

Primary Weapon Mod Pack - Primary weapon mods only. Serration, split chamber etc. This could either be all primary weapons, or split it into 2 separate mod packs. Rifle/sniper and shotgun.

Secondary Weapon Mod Pack - A pack of 5 mods for your secondary weapon

Sentinel Mod Pack - A pack of 5 mods for your Sentinel

Ability Mod Pack - All the ability mods. This is the main reason current mod packs are so god damn @(*()$ awful (excuse my bluntness. Mod Packs still seriously &!$$ me off). Spending up to $7 on a Mod Pack (Dragon), and getting 2+ Ability mods is a massive kick in the face. Fix this asap.

Melee Mod Pack - A pack of 5 mods for your melee weapon

 

_________________________________________________________________

 

Fast forward a little bit. 

I was still defending DE. Still claiming that the changes and fixes will happen.

Then. Resources, Credits and Fusion Cores in the market.

 

Resources. 30 Platinum nets you 3000 (?) of a common resource

30 platinum nets you 300 (?) of an uncommon resource

And, 10 platinum nets you 1 rare resource.

 

Now, that's not the worst part.

15 platinum ($1) nets you a single Mutagen Sample, Detonite Ampule or Fieldron Sample.

A single sample/ampule.

That's $10 for a single Mass, Fieldron or injector.

 

Sure, you can farm for them.

But, how is that an excuse for these utterly ridiculous prices?

 

I can't understand the logic behind this. I really can't.

I'd love to hear from a staff member as to why a single sample costs 15 plat...

 

Now, Fusion Core bundles.

When these were announced, I said they were riding that extremely fine line of P2W.

But, when they were released, all I could do was laugh at how they eventually implemented them.

 

Each pack only gives 3 cores. THREE!

90 plat for the highest pack.

1 guaranteed rare, and 2 have a chance of being rare.

A chance. If I'm paying more than $5 for three Fusion Cores. I would sure as hell expect more than that.

 

Not to mention, these aren't even guaranteed as Rare 5. These could be Rare 1.

 

Yet another example of the market being completely unfair and unreasonable.

What incentive is there for me to buy a pack of 3 cores for something like $3-$7? I could go to Kappa and get something like 10+ Cores.

 

Now. The worst of the lot. Credit Bundles.

90 platinum for the highest bundle. 30,000 credits.

 

When these were released, Void III netted you ~75k credits. That's 10+ minutes to get you over twice of what the credit bundles could.

Did DE even think this through?

Were you guys wasted one night, and just wrote down the first numbers that appeared in your minds?

Christ.

 

I understand that the Void III credit rewards have been nerfed to somewhere around the ~25k mark, but still. A single 20 minute mission for ~25k, or $7 for 30k credits?

 

These credit bundles need to give us some kind of reason to buy them. Make the $7 bundle give us something like 75k. Not 30k. 30k is laughable.

 

_________________________________________________________________

 

Here's when I start to get bitter.

The clan dojo costs.

 

When they were first released, it seemed like absolutely zero consideration went to any clan with less than 30 players.

A connector room costed something like 15 Forma, and 20k+ of the other materials.

 

At the time, I was fortunate to have about 70+ players in my clan, and we could steadily create rooms.

 

This was basically encouraging players to leave their clans and join a massive group of strangers. That's what really started to &!$$ me off.

 

Small clans are a part of every single MMO out there. 

You can't just neglect them and do something like this

Forcing players to leave their clan, and join a group they don't want to, is never a good thing.

 

Sure, huge clans should be able to progress faster. Small clans should not get left in the dark.

 

This has since been fixed (thankyou DE), so that's all I will say

 

_________________________________________________________________

 

The Glaive and Instant Gratification

 

Ah, DE_Steve's famous "instant gratification" line.

 

The Forums were an absolute S#&$storm for the several days after the Glaive release. It was utter chaos.

 

When the Glaive was released, it was alert/platinum only. I, personally, had no problem with this. Though, I'd have preferred that it was alert only, and not for platinum.

That's not the point.

 

The main issue was that there was absolutely no indication from DE that this is what would be happening.

 

In the next livestream, Steve mentioned "instant gratification".

Considering the state of the forums at the time, that's probably the worst thing he could have said.

 

Dozens of players, myself included, were seriously &!$$ed off at this.

We don't want @(*()$ instant gratification. We want fun, rewarding gameplay that feels fair.

 

The alert system at the time was the awful RNG, with Glaive alerts being few and far between.

Alert system has since been fixed (kind of), so I won't elaborate any more.

 

_________________________________________________________________

 

Sigh, then came the Orokin Void.

 

DE_Steve teased in the livestream prior to their release that there would be some "Cool and exciting ways of reaching the void"

What do we get?
Farming defense missions and void key packs for platinum.

 

Are you @(*()$ kidding?

Don't tell us that you have some very cool ways of getting to the void, then make us farm defense missions to wave 5 over and over.

 

There are plenty of examples of DE saying things that are definitely not representative of what will happen/what is true.

 

Several months down the line, not a hair of these "cool" ways has been seen. We still have defense mission farming and platinum packs.

 

Have there been any indication of this changing? No.

 

I made a thread on this fairly recently (maybe a month ago).

When the "cool" ways were originally announced, there were some images floating around of Orokin remnants in the Grineer Asteroid and Corpus Outpost sets.

I instantly thought that we would have to go searching for these remnants and somehow activate them, bringing us to the void, and a completely different tileset.

 

Does that sound more interesting than farming to wave 5 over and over? Sure as hell does to me.

 

Here's an image of the Orokin remnants. 

I'd have loved to have to go searching for these to get to the void.

 

_________________________________________________________________

 

 

Transmutation

 

Ok, now is when I really start to get bitter.

We've all seen the threads and posts about transmutation.

 

Steve mentioned that the type/polarity of a rare mod would influence the result. And it was basically working as intented (but he will look at it. Gee, where have I heard that before)

 

Then, multiple screenshots appear of people getting some useless ability mods after putting in 4 rares.

Several of these screenshots were using no abilities and no duplicates in these transmutations.

 

Who's idea was it to put ability mods in the transmutation system?

You think I'm going to spend 36k credits for a @(*()$ Bastille mod?

No, If I'm transmutating, I'm hoping for multi-shot, Serration or some other rare mod.

 

Seriously. DE has said time and time again that they are aware that RNG is a problem, and are working on lessening it. But, then they give us a new system that is pure RNG???

Wow. Just wow.

 

More RNG, just what we all @(*()$ wanted.

 

I did post a thread on a possible overhaul for the transmutation system.

For those that are interested, here is a link - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/96855-a-great-way-to-fix-transmutation'>Link

Idea needs some refinement, but it is infinitely better than the current RNG joke.

_________________________________________________________________

 

Clan Emblems

 

I did voice my opinion quite loudly on this issue.

150 ($10) platinum to upload an emblem.

 

If this is refused for whatever reason, that's $10 down the drain.

 

That's not what gets me.

A staff member has to wade through the submissions. It makes sense for there to be an upload fee.

 

No. What broke the camels back in 50 different places for me, is the fact that every single member has to pay 30 platinum to sport the logo.

 

I've played plenty of MMORPGs out there, and almost every single one let the clan leader upload an emblem for free, and it was instantly displayed on every single member.

 

What is the point of spending money on a logo, if half your clan members won't even be showing it.

 

At this point, I was starting to become pretty damn bitter on the forums.

 

The Market

 

This is where I snapped.

 

I'm overjoyed to be talking about this. /sarcasm.

 

I posted my thoughts in quite a lengthy thread titled " The market. And why, in its current state, will be Warframe's downfall" https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/106005-the-market-and-why-in-its-current-state-will-be-warframes-downfall'>Link

I stand by my opinion.

 

The market in Warframe is one of the worse I have ever seen in a F2P game.

 

Here's an example

Dual Skana - 130 Platinum

Skana - 150 Platinum.

 

It's like DE threw some random number out there and went with it.

 

$10 for a @(*()$ Skana? Are you kidding me?

 

Every single item in the market needs to be looked at, and overhauled (with the exception of potatoes and Forma. Those are reasonable)

You keep on releasing more content, with increasing prices.

$15+ for a weapon. And up to $25 for a single Warframe????

 

DE seems very reluctant to revisit already released market items.

Either they just feel as if they are fine, or they just don't bother to look over past content

 

Please, DE. For the love of God, go back and sort this S#&$ out.

Go through, look at every price of every item, weapon and Warframe, and redo the prices.

 

All indication shows that you guys are completely unwilling to actually go back and change prices.

my assumption is that you are scared of the potential backlash from players who already purchased something at its original price.

You could do one of two things.

1. Refund all players the difference in what they payed.

2. Don't provide a refund at all.

 

I'd be fine with either.

I knew how much plat I had payed when I first bought x item, so I would be 100% fine with any change. If it means that the market will be completely overhauled, I would be 100% happy.

 

Orokin Derelict

 

Do I even need to explain?

Sure, Nekros isn't too hard to farm. There's constantly people in region chat doing Golem runs.

 

No, the issue is the Mutagen Samples.

The prices of the new clan-tech is a different story. But, this just adds insult to injury.

 

The fact that the new clan-tech has such utterly terrible resource costs, is only projected further by the fact that you can only get mutagen samples in these new tilesets.

 

You want the new clan-tech, but are not a fan of the Orokin Derelicts? Suck it up. You have to go to the derelicts to get Mutagen Samples.

 

A DE staff member said in council chat (AFAIK) that this was a bug.

Bug my &amp;#&#33;.

They were removed from every single planet, and the starmap was changed to show Detonite and Fieldron.

 

Then, Scott says that they were moved as an incentive to keep playing the derelicts. It seemed like some DE staff didn't even know the right answer.

 

Now. Forcing me to play in the new derelicts if I want clan-tech is not a @(*()$ incentive.

That's just going to irritate me even more.

With new tilesets, I shouldn't have to be forced into them.

I should want to play the derelicts because they look great, have unique things attributed to them, cool secrets/traps and are very interesting. Not because the devs force me to be there.

 

_________________________________________________________________

 

 

Fast forward to today.

Let's discuss the fun subject of the new clan-tech prices.

 

Synapse

11 Mutagen Mass

30,000 Salvage

3,500 Circuits

3 Forma

 

Djinn

15 Mutagen Mass

30,000 Salvage

3,500 Circuits

3 Forma

 

*Sigh*

So.

First, you remove Mutagen from planets.

Second, you force us to the Orokin Derelicts.

Third, this.

 

You seeing the issue here?

How long must I farm these @(*()$ derelicts for these resources.

 

When I first saw the price of the Synapse, that was my last remaining respect point for DE (Now, sitting on something like -150 billion respect points)

 

Steve constantly says that they are working on RNG, and they are trying to minimize grind, but then they do S#&$ like this?

"Hey everyone, we need some content to keep our oldest players here. Any ideas?"

"Let's put in more RNG and more grind!!!"

"GENIUS!"

 

These prices have since been reduced. But, that doesn't change the fact that we are still forced to the new tilesets, which directly ties into grind.

 

Why do we need keys to get to these new locations, anyway?

We need Void Keys because the void ships are hidden away, and we need the keys to unlock the doorways to said void.

These derelicts are Orokin ships that weren't hidden in the void and are non-functional.

 

Why not just put the Orokin Derelicts in normal planets. It's a pain in the &amp;#&#33; to have to spend resources and time (has been reduced) to craft keys to do missions.

Was this just another way to artificially provide content? Sure does seem like it.

 

_________________________________________________________________

 

Ending notes.

 

DE, I hope you take a serious look at your direction.

Power creep, price creep, the utter S#&$ that is the market etc.

 

Please, for the love of God, use update 11 as a proper polishing update.

 

Finish off the content you are working on, then please fix the glaring issues.

Fix as many bugs and issues as you can.

 

Dojo grey screen bug?

UI lockup?

Friend not currently in a game session?

Session is full?

/unstuck?

Power Creep?

Market?

UI overhaul?

 

There are so many issues that have been around for so long.

 

I don't care if update 11 is delayed by a month. The game is supposedly releasing in November.

The game is not ready for an official release. Not even close.

 

Please, use Update 11 as the release patch. Sort this S#&$ out.

 

Thankyou to those who read my novel.

 

This is not intended to be a full on rant. This is my plea to Digital Extremes.

I love Warframe. I can only think of one other dev that I would gladly give $250 to. That is CD Projekt Red.

 

I apologise for the swearing. But, like I said, I am getting extremely bitter.

 

I do not want to see Warframe go under. I really don't.

But, at this rate, it probably will.

 

*Edit 1*

Platinum discounts, market discounts and lore.

Platinum Discounts

 

Lothlaine reminded me of the platinum discounts.

 

DE knew about the complaints with the market.

It seemed like they didn't want to change the prices, so they introduced a band-aid.

 

Platinum discounts are good, and should stay.

But, some people (not so much Lothlaine) stand firm and say that the platinum prices are fine. They use the argument that you can use a plat coupon, and the prices are reasonable.

 

Now. Do you see the issue?

You have to get a coupon of 50%-75% off to feel like the platinum prices are reasonable. There's something seriously wrong if that's the case.

 

You should never have to get a 50% discount to actually feel like you're getting your moneys worth. I shouldn't have to rely on the daily login rewards to feel satisfied.

 

Market Discounts

 

The new daily deal system is nice, but, yet another band-aid.

You shouldn't have to get a discount for something to be reasonable. (just like the plat coupons)

 

I seriously hope that this system isn't DE's idea of "fixing" the market prices.

Giving us this "Darvo" character who provides discounts is not a fix. Not in the slightest.

 

Lore

 

Ah, lore.

So many players, including myself, have been waiting for lore.

 

We were teased with 'Vor's Prize', and told that the episode is coming soon.

Then, what?

It's been something like 2 months, and not a single piece of lore or information has been released.

It seems like DE knows that we want lore, and they thought that this little teaser was enough to get the heat off their backs.

Someone mentioned that in livestream #13, they couldn't even remember the name of the episode, and just ended up making a joke out of it. (Don't quote me on that, I didn't watch livestream #13)

How @(*()$ unprofessional is that?

 

If it's actually true, I can only laugh.

Yet another example of DE telling us something, then doing something else entirely.

 

I understand that they mentioned Vor's Prize in livestream #14, and said it's coming.

 

But, why the hell would you tease the lore release 2 months ago, then put it completely off the radar?

Don't tease something unless you have the full intent of releasing it.

 

Saying things like "Oh, it's being worked on" can only go so far.

Once it gets to the point where 75% of the things that are being "worked on" never see the light of day, players start taking things that are said with a lot of salt.

 

*Edit 2*

Livestreams

Livestreams

 

This may seem like something trivial. But, I stayed up until 3:17 am to watch livestream 14.

 

Those who watched will probably know what I'm talking about.

 

I sat through it all, hoping they would actually get to the questions.

But, alas, they never came.

 

The whole thing was a mess.

Rebecca would try to ask a question, then they would all sidetrack for 25 minutes.

Steve came along to discuss some things. Then, everyone got sidetracked for the rest of the stream.

 

That livestream did no favours for DE.

 

Please, DE.

Make livestream #16 professional.

Answer questions. Answer a lot of questions.

 

I don't care at all if you don't tell us what the next prime is. I don't care if you don't show us any concept art. I don't care if you don't show us any weapons.

Use livestream 16 to try to restore some faith. Note down questions (don't ignore the important questions that get dozens of upvotes)

 

Again, make it professional.

Split it up into sections.

Section 1: Discussing glaring issues. Balance, nerfs, buffs. 

Section 2: Answering important questions from the livestream thread. Important questions.

Section 3: Answering lighter questions from the livestream thread. Less important questions.

Section 4: Stream questions.

 

I'm not asking you to be all serious and everything. Have a laugh while you answer things, but again be professional.

Livestream 14 was a @(*()$ mess. Please don't do that again.

 

*Edit 3*

Ced23Ric's resignation

Well, Ced23Ric has resigned as community moderator.

His open letter of resignation was...disheartening to say the least.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/110391-1500-hours-10-months-an-belated-open-letter-of-resignation'>Link

"my behaviour is not desired and that my lack of experience in game design makes my demands for changes inappropriate."

"Nevertheless, during that time I also expressed my impression that Warframe is becoming more and more disheartening."

 

It's a sad state of affairs at the moment.

The forums are just filled with disheartening posts.

From the Orokin Derelict issues, infested weapon costs, datamined void drops to the resignation of a com mod.

 

There are plenty of threads and posts of players expressing their concerns.

Some are warranted, and share a similar theme as my own. Some are rants. Some are unhelpful.

Nevertheless, the forums have seen better days.

 

Something like seeing a com mod leave on terms like this is surprisingly saddening...

 

I'll take this time to express my sadness (again) to see Ced leave.

 

*Edit 4*

DE's apology

Included in here is my response to DE's apology.

Link to DE's apology - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/110474-an-apology'>Link

 

Before I start, I am hugely appreciative of this. There aren't many devs out there who would do something like this.

Seriously. Props to DE for actually doing this.

 

This addresses the issue of the infested weapon costs and the void drops (to an extent, still just pure RNG).

 

Most of my points are still valid though.

What is being done about issues that have been in the game for months?

 

At this point, it's actually quite hard for me to outright accept their apology.

How can I trust them enough to not just take this as yet another smokescreen by them?

 

I'll hold off on judgement for now, but I will be keeping a sharp eye out for any more bs, and am taking the apology with a kilogram of salt.

 

I'll re-iterate my comments about the livestream.

Please, for the love of God, make livestream 16 professional, and not a complete mess like livestream 14 was.

 

Answer a lot of questions. Don't give us the age old excuse of "it's being worked on" for every answer.

Tell us exactly what is going on.

If you have no intention of sorting something out. Tell us.

 

In all, I appreciate the apology, but we need word on everything else.

Infested weapon costs and void drops were only the tip of a massive iceberg.

 

*Edit 5*

RNG, grind, and farming

RNG and Grinding

It's about time I discussed my thoughts on RNG, and its place in Warframe.

 

Before I start, I do not believe RNG is an inherently bad thing. It's the way that games implement it, and, in Warframe's case, rely on it.

 

Dilution

This is a big one in Warframe.

Because DE has such a heavy reliance on players farming the Void, they are continuously adding new content to these missions.

Enter: Dilution.

 

DE states that dilution is the cause for the latest drop rates fiasco (though, I am inclined to believe otherwise). Due to them adding so many items to void mission rewards.

 

With each part addition (~3 per weapon/Warframe), the drop rate for everything else decreases.

 

There are ways to fix dilution. Most of which I think DE will probably refuse to do.

 

First, a token system.

So many players wish for a token system that will allow them to effectively buy the part they are missing.

Goodbye dilution, goodbye frustrations, goodbye abso-@(*()$-lutely awful mission RNG.

 

Second, let the game see your inventory and increase the chance of giving an item you don't have.

This one is probably easier than the token system. But, again, I don't believe DE will implement this.

 

Grind

Grind.

An ever increasing problem in Warframe.

 

Every single piece of recent content that I can think of, has quite a substantial element of grind associated with it.

I mean, even the new tilesets is just layered with grind.

 

The reason that all the content is boring grind is because that's what the core mechanics are.

 

The current state of the game basically dictates that any equipment requires grinding. That's not the big issue, every F2P game has grinding to an extent. The problem is the complete reliance on grinding.

 

Getting normal weapons aren't too hard, it's the weapons/Warframes that require RNG mission rewards.

I could run a void mission 4 times and get every item I need, while a friend could run it 100 times and only get 3. See the issue here?

 

RNG in its current state is not fun at all. It's frustrating as hell.

 

DE_Steve constantly reminds us that they know that grind is an issue, they know that RNG is an issue, and they are working on it.

The more he says it, the more I think it's complete bs.

 

Want less RNG and less grind? Time to pay 15 mutagen and 3 forma for an infested clan-tech. (has since been fixed. Doesn't change the fact that this went against everything Steve said)

 

On top of that, mutagen samples were changed to be exclusive to the Orokin Derelicts. If that's not a complete &#036;&amp;*^ move, I don't know what is.

I don't even need to elaborate on that. Anyone can glance at that and realise what a @(*()$ joke it was.

 

Farming

I neglected to mention Warframe farming.

This does come under the same precedence as grinding, but I thought I'd give it its own section.

 

Farming for Warframes.

Yet another example of irritating RNG.

 

I could farm Jackal 5 times for Rhino and get all the parts, or  I farm him 30 times and only get 2 parts. Just like the issue with the Void.

 

An easy-ish solution would be for the game to inspect your inventory and increase the chance of getting the part you don't have.

 

The thing is though, the actual RNG isn't the most annoying part here. It's the monotony.

I'm more than happy to run 15 missions to get a new Warframe. But, when those 15 missions are the exact same S#&$ over and over, that's when the problem starts to arise.

 

Boss farming is so bloody monotonous and dull, it can seriously drive players away.

 

There needs to be variety in farming for Warframes. This requires some kind of a fundamental change, of which I am unsure of.

No matter how you do it, the monotony of boss farming must be fixed. This is a massive factor in whether a player quits or stays.

 

Think about it, a new player decides that Excalibur is getting boring, and wants to get a new Warframe.

He finds out that for Rhino, he needs to kill the Jackal.

 

EDIT

Apparently, you can get Warframes in 3-4 runs now - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/118028-100-boss-bp-drop-rate/

 

Great job. Seriously.

Now, to make this actually feel worthwhile (and not overly easy), we just need the boss overhauls.

Make it possible for us to lose, make them difficult, and you will begin to gain those respect points back ;)

 

______________________________________________________________

 

I'll say it again, just like I did in the lore section.

Don't say/tease us something, then completely neglect it.

 

Do not tell us you are working on RNG, you know grinding is an issue, and are trying to lessen it, and then come up with S#&$ like that.

 

Things like that are what loses playerbase. 

While you will always have some loyal players, constant empty promises will eventually turn them.

It's exactly what happened in my case. Don't let it happen to everyone else. Please.

 

*Edit 6*

Band-Aid mod "fixes"

Ok, a point that I believe...Ced23Ric reminded me of.

 

The awful band-aid mods.

The main one here being shield reduction from ice level mod and Handspring

But, all the others come into play as well.

Laser resist

Fire resist

Poison resist

Ice resist

 

These were mostly released around the same time, and the forum was pretty active in voicing its opinion.

These mods are utter S#&$. There's no nice way to put it.

 

The fact that the super mobile Tenno recover from a knockdown so god damned slow was a constant topic.

 

Instead of increasing the speed (why the hell does a Tenno even take so @(*()$ long to stand up???), they give us handspring...

 

This should not be left to a mod.

This should be a core mechanic.

 

They proceeded to say on the livestream that "this is for some variety. It's for the people that asked for this".

No it's @(*()$ not. Nobody asked for knockdown recovery to be tied to a mod. They asked it to be fixed. Christ.

 

I simply cannot understand the train of thought that went into this.

Which DE member actually sat down and thought that this was a good idea??

 

How about the new ones.

Maglev, +x% to sliding??

+x seconds to hacking.

 

Who the hell would remove a useful mod to add a mod for hacking?

Maybe it hacking was actually challenging (which it isn't. At all).

Just band-aid after band-aid.

 

What did this achieve?

1. It &!$$ed off players.

2. It decreased the drop rate of other mods due to the ever increasing dilution

 

Sounds like a victory for DE in my book. /sarcasm

 

Do I even need to post a potential solution to this?

Don't put in useless mods.

 

Is there any incentive for me to get rid of Redirection, Focus, Streamline for the hacking mod?

Not at all. Not in the slightest.

DE seems to be leaning towards the idea that they will be relying on mods a lot for attempting to "fix" problems.

They shouldn't rely on it too much. 

 

I don't see anything wrong with having a decent pool of mods. But, when a lot of them are just awful and serve no practical purpose, it does more harm than good.

 

Do not use some awful mods as an excuse for you to act like you've fixed anything. You haven't.

This goes for anything in the future as well.

 

I know I'm sounding extremely bitter right now, but that's the point of the thread.

I've gone from one of your most supportive players to this.

 

*Edit 7*

Weapon variety

Before I start, this one is basically my own personal opinion. I come from games such as UT where every gun feels different. So, you can imagine that Warframe feels pretty stale.

This part is purely up to personal opinion. Some of you may love the current weapon variety, some of you may not.

 

This one is definitely not on the priority list, and I do not see it changing. Again, this is more of a personal one.

 

Weapons

Ok

DE has been releasing the Tenno reinforcements, which is great. But, 95% of these weapons are completely unoriginal.

They're basically reskinned versions of each other, with some stat changes.

 

Giving us "new" weapons with some different damage, fire rate and/or accuracy values will only go so far.

We need weapons with new and unique mechanics. Not just some different stats.

 

I don't mind if it's 2/3 weeks in-between reinforcements, if that means that we will get a truly unique weapon, sign me up!

 

Let's look at some examples.

 

Soma - Nothing special. Just your standard rifle with some different values,

Grakata - See: Soma

Miter - Kinda different. But, at the end of the day, it's just another projectile "sniper". This one's a bit more unique than the rest.

Twin Gremlins - Nothing special at all.

Paris - Kinda different. Bows are always cool.

Kunai - Might look different, but it's still just your standard sidearm. It just has blades instead of a gun model and bullets.

Pretty much every melee weapon - Honestly, there's barely any different between melee weapons. Different stats, that's it.

 

Over a long period of time, this will hurt the game. These weapons are already starting to become incredibly stale, and there's little point in getting new weapons apart from mastery/power upgrades.

 

How to remedy this?

 

Secondary fire modes.

Add these to all/most of the current weapons. 

Give each weapon a unique secondary fire mode. That way you have the basic primary fire that we currently have, with a different secondary that is useful for a particular situation.

The Braton family could just have a basic grenade launcher. But, the prime/vandal versions could have special grenades.

 

Miter could be given exploding blades just like the Ripper in UT. Could knock enemies back a few meters as well.

Ogris could launch proximity mines as a secondary.

Paris/bows could be given trap bolts, just like in Bioshock. They send out an electrified tripwire from the tail.

 

Those are just some very basic examples, but would add a lot to gameplay, and reduce the boring monotony.

Obviously that is a lot of work. But, what's more important. Giving us boring "new" weapons that are dull as hell and offer no difference in gameplay, or giving us truly unique weapons that can offer us completely different playstyles?

 

I'd take unique gameplay any day of the week.

 

Melee weapons

Melee weapons suffer from this issue far more than the guns do.

 

How to remedy this?

Unique mechanics

 

Let's look at longswords first.

What is the difference between them? I can't think of any.

 

They're all the same boring slash. 

 

The whip sword sounds cool, but is it going to be different?

If it's just going to have its own animations, but still be the same 'slash away' type of style, what incentive do I have to make it? Apart from having a new weapon.

 

A whip sword has huge potential, give us the opportunity to wrap it around enemies to drag them to the ground to finish them off. Give us the opportunity to wrap them and fling them into other enemies. Does that sound more fun than just slashing away? Sure as hell does to me.

 

Hook swords have been suggested several times.

They already have potential to add new mechanics.

 

Using them as a dual wield = Low range, faster attack rate.

Press whatever button to link them together = double the range, slower attack rate, higher damage.

 

Even something like that would do wonders to break up the current bore that is melee variety.

 

*Edit 8*

Weapon builds

Like edit 7, this one is another personal one

Though, I do see this subject on the forums quite often.

 

As it stands, the weapon builds are quite...dull to say the least.

If you're interested in endgame (what little of it there is, anyway), you're going to be almost forced down a set path.

 

There's basically 2 builds that people use. Crit builds, which are only viable on a select few weapons. And the rainbow build.

The main thing is, there are 2 essential mods.

Damage mods - Serration, Point Blank, Hornet Strike

Multishot - Split Chamber, Barrel Diffusion, Hell's Chamber.

 

Once you get them, that's basically 2 of your mod slots that must be used.

I have two main issues with these.

 

1 - Farming.

This ties directly into my issue with farming.

Without multishot and/or damage mods, you are at a severe disadvantage later on. You could be farming for weeks for these mods, and still fail to get them.

2 - They're basically essential.

Rather than get 8 mod slots, you're forced into 6.

 

Before I begin the next part. Damage 2.0 is coming, and I have zero idea how that will change things

 

In my opinion, damage on weapons should be upped (or enemies hp/shields/armour reduced) and damage/multishot mods should be removed.

 

It makes for quite a boring game when there are only 2 effective builds. Those being crit and rainbow (elemental).

The current mod system does give quite a bit of potential, but when guns rely on damage so much, it basically nulls any that potential, which is saddening.

 

Plenty of games out there have ammo/reload builds.

Maxing your max ammo, magazine size, rate of fire and reload speed is often a great way to play. But, that's pointless in Warframe because you're handicapping yourself so much.

(Yes, I know some weapons can use this effectively)

 

Obviously a "reload" build is a bad example, seeing as it only uses 4 current mods. But, that could also be built on.

 

Obviously removing multi-shot and damage mods would seriously annoy those who spent so long upgrading them. So, it's doubtful that DE would remove them.

If they did, those with high level multishots/damage mods should be rewarded in some way.

 

Ending notes

The current system could stay, and be built upon.

But, in all honesty (imo), as long as we have multi-shot and serration, builds will always be limited.

 

The "best" mods that DE releases are basically just more damage mods.

Lethal Torrent, Blaze, Accelerated Blast, Hammer Shot.

All these do is just limit you to builds even more.

 

Sure, having damage/crit builds is fine. But, it's a definite problem when those are the only viable builds.

 

*Edit 9*

The Design Council

Ok, again, more of a personal one.

This is not going to be complaining about how little the DC gets or anything like that.

 

Before I start, a little about what the Design Council is.

 

There are many misconceptions about what the DC is about.

Some people think we all talk with the devs about what's coming, we create threads for them, and we basically form the game. That is completely untrue.

 

We can not create threads.

DE creates threads/polls.

 

Most of it is just previewing upcoming items (that get leaked within an hour), and occasionally voting on weapons/Warframes.

 

Now that's out of the way, my issue with the Design Council.

 

Polls

I don't care if the stuff gets leaked, I barely even post on the Design Council anyway.

No, my issue is with the polls.

 

Let's look at Nova and Carrier.

The name choices of Carrier and Nova, and the power choices of Carrier were almost universally disliked.
 

In the brainstorm threads, there were dozens of other ideas for both, which were miles better than what we received.

 

What do I want out of these polls?
A "None of the above" option.

This should be added to every Design Council poll.

So many people out there vote for the sake of voting, they don't want their vote to go to waste. So, what do they do? They vote which one is the "best worst" option.

 

Most of the more recent polls (Warframe theme, Sentinel name, Sentinel power, Warframe power) had some serious backlash on the vote options.

Having a "none of the above" option gives a real gauge of popularity, rather than what we currently get in the Design Council.

 

DE has said that they are working on involving the DC more (sound familiar?). 

Livestream 15 was restricted to DC questions. Was that their way of "involving" us?

 

If so, I'd rather they didn't involve us at all.

I don't want other player's opportunities to ask questions taken away, simply because I had spare money.

 

*Edit 10*

Livestream 15

Right.

Ok.

Let's see...

 

DE knows there are dozens of threads on the Forums regarding communication, glaring issues, and flat out disappointment.

 

I know I'm not alone when I said livestream 14 was a mess, and 15 should be purely for explaining everything, and telling us what's going on.

 

DE knows that the forums are full of players wanting answers.

So, what do they give us? A livestream for concept art.

 

Really??

"Art Director Michael “Mynki” Brennan and concept artists Eric, Mike, and Zeljko will join Rebecca on the couch to talk all things “Concept Art!”"

 

Right. Exactly what we all wanted.

 

I get that art is an interesting thing, and it's cool to see. But, considering the displeasure that has been present on the forums for weeks now, this is just...A kick in the face, to be honest.

It's getting to the point where it almost seems intentional.

 

 

Well. My hopes that livestream #15 would be about actually talking with us, and explaining what's going on in detail, have been dashed.

GG no re.

 

The above was what I had originally written in my first thread.

Rebecca took the time to explain that livestreams are planned in advance, hence the reason for an art stream.

 

But, considering the terrible state of the forums, would it have killed them to move the art stream to next week???

Seriously. 

 

I hope to @(*()$ Christ that livestream 16 is used for answering the real issues in the game.

Please, DE. :(

 

*Edit 11*

Mission types and variety

 

Before I begin with this section. It's known that DE is working on mission types.

 

This is not really one of the really pressing issues, but will definitely need some work in the future to keep players interested.

 

Here are the current mission types

Assassination

Capture

Deception

Endless Defense

Exterminate

Mobile Defense

Rescue

Sabotage

Spy

Survival

 

Now, out of those, how many of them are truly interesting?

 

Assassination

These are...Kind of interesting the first couple of times you play them.

DE is working on overhauling the bosses, which is great.

 

Like I said in the Warframe farming section, farming these missions for Warframe parts is unbelievably boring and monotonous.

How to fix this?

First, make bosses interesting. This is already happening, so I have nothing else to add.

Second, make maps interesting.

This is a kind of obtuse one.

 

Levels do need to have more interesting elements across the board. At the moment, it's basically run from room to room, kill boss/complete objective, then run to extraction.

 

That gets very, very dull.

Dynamically changing rooms, alternate pathways (vents, opening up floor panels etc), ability to destroy some walls to create a shorcut.

Those are some very basic examples of something that would make missions more interesting across the board.

 

Feel like playing stealth?

Open up a ceiling panel and sneak past your enemies, or just rain death from above.

 

Capture, Deception, Rescue, Sabotage and Spy

Apart from having separate objectives, do any of these missions actually feel different?

(I understand...Deception is being worked on)

 

It's (like said above) basically, run from point A to point B, do objective, run from point B to point C. Rinse and repeat.

Over the coming months, I believe that overhauling mission types to make each one unique and interesting should be high on the priority list (after bugfixes and major issue resolutions).

Reason? missions are the core of the game. Without interesting missions, everything becomes dull.

 

Before the void RNG comes missions. Before Warframe grinding comes missions. Before resource farming comes missions.

 

To do any of those "activities" you have to complete a mission. If that mission is extremely boring, the burnout comes so much quicker.

 

Endless Defense, Mobile Defense and Survival

These ones are the more interesting of the bunch (though, Mob Def can get quite tedious after a while. Still fun, though)

Endless Defense is basically the "endgame" of Warframe at the moment. It's the only real way to test yourself and your weapons. Though, armour 2.0 will hopefully fix the issue of armour ignore weapons being the only viable choice.

 

Survival is a step up from the older mission types.

Personally I'd like a survival mode without the need for oxygen, but that'd probably just end up like endless defense without a cryopod. Everyone sitting in a corner, just spraying. That doesn't sound too fun to me.

 

I do wish that there were a few Survival missions that were like the event (I never got to play the event). In one of the defense rooms, rather than having to run around searching for oxygen (gets old after a while)

 

An idea I had

Link to idea

To me, I think each planet should have its own unique mission that is not randomly generated.

 

Let's think back to Unreal Tournament's Assault mode.

 

Team A attacks. Running through a series of objectives, each progresses the mission to its final point.

Team B defends. Doing all they can to prevent team A from completing their objectives.

 

Example.

One mission required Team A to:

Objective 1 - Make their way from one moving train car to a switch that activates a bridge to the enemy car.

Objective 2 - Plant explosives on the enemy train door to gain access.

Objective 3 - Activate another switch that opens up the door to the next section

Objective 4 - Make their way to a third car that is housing the missiles you are aiming to recover

Objective 5 - Drop down into the car, activate another switch to steal the train car. Thus, recovering the missiles.

 

Sounds like a lot of switch activation, but there were more, some were awesome.

Mothership - Team A starts in fighter crafts and has to make their way into the Skaarj mothership

(Forgot name) - Team A starts across a river, must activate the bridge, steal a vehicle and escort it to the end.

 

How would this work in Warframe?

Each planet has its own unique, assault-like mission.

 

These missions are much more difficult than your standard mission, and have pre-set maps (not procedurally generated).

Team A (the Tenno) must complete a series of objectives. (perhaps with a time limit, or better rewards the faster you do them).

Each objective will open up a completely new area of the map.

 

This could open up interesting co-op opportunities. Which, let's be honest, are non-existent in Warframe.

Perhaps the team would have to split up for one section. 2 players need to go into the ventilation systems to reach a room to complete one part of an objective, while 2 more have to defend a location from being overrun by enemies.

 

To me, there's infinitely more potential in a pre-determined map, rather than procedurally generated levels.

Seeing how there's dozens and dozens of missions, procedural maps are the way to go, otherwise we'd be playing the exact same map over and over.

 

However, for a single mission on each planet, a custom map would work wonders, and do great at reducing monotony.

I mean, who wouldn't want to play an objective based, Assault map with their mates??

 

This is turning into a fan concept, so I'll stop there. :P

 

 

*Edit 12*

The other side of the spectrum.

Let's bring some positivity into this thread, shall we?

I know that pretty much the entire thread makes it sound like I hate DE, and I think they're awful.

That is the exact opposite of what I think.

 

I love DE, even after all those problems, I still do. I'm just not a white knight anymore.

I mean, DE was partly responsible for giving me one of the my favourite FPS games of my childhood, Unreal Tournament.

 

After dealing with so many S#&$ty devs, DE is such a bright light in the dark sky.

So, just in-case this thread made them upset in any way, know this, DE, you guys are awesome, and I only wish you the absolute best for the future.

 

Hotfixes

How many devs out there do this?

I could probably count the amount on 1 hand.

 

DICE? game breaking BF3 bugs would be fixed within...3 months.

Don't even get me started on Tribes: Ascend.

 

Warframe? bugs introduced in patches are usually fixed in a matter of days.

 

While there are still plenty of issues that have been around for months. (that I wish would take precedence)

DE still releases plenty of hotfixes to combat the bugs that will inevitably be introduced with every patch.

 

Communication

While communication is kind of known as DE's weak point. We could definitely use more of it.

I can, however, say with full confidence, that DE is miles ahead of most other devs when it comes to communication with their audience.

 

Staff

The staff are awesome. Enough said.

 

Though they do say things that are....less than agreeable. (looking at you, instant gratification)

Overall, the staff seem like very cool, laid back people. Something you don't see all that often.

 

*Edit 13*

Wednesday updates and Grineeer's Workshop

Big ups for these.

 

Friday updates have long been a complaint on the forums. 

Wednesdays should give the team more flexibility, and will (hopefully) take some weight off their backs.

When updates were released on Fridays and had bugs, the team would have to work long hours on the weekends.

Nobody likes doing that.

 

So, hopefully with the new Wednesday updates, it means DE will have a bit of stress relief, and won't have to work until 3am on weekends.

 

Grineeer's Workshop

Not much to say, really.

Great start, assuming the posts keep up, which I'm sure they will.

 

Even the Tribes: Ascend dev blog was great, despite the game already going downhill.

 

It gave us insight into maps, weapons etc. 

It didn't even have to be anything major, just a paragraph and short explanation of what's going on will go miles with the playerbase.

 

Keep it up DE, you're moving forwards.

 

*Edit 14*

Tutorials and newbie friendliness

After I replied to ss4chris about the current state of the game, it got me thinking a little more about the PS4 release.

 

Is Warframe going to be able to hold the new crowd in its current state? Doesn't seem like it.

 

Think about it. 

You do the tutorial, and are thrown into Mercury.

You're having a blast. Obliterating the Grineer left right and center, you defeat your first boss and get a Cronus blueprint.

 

After x hours, you decide Excalibur isn't for you, and you want a new Warframe.

 

You head to Venus to kill the Jackal to get Rhino.

30 runs later, you still need the systems.

 

That is going to be one serious deterrent for a new player. This ties in with my edit about the boss farming monotony.

I wouldn't mind running 20 missions for a Warframe if each time it was truly different and enjoyable.

 

Second part.

Tutorials.

 

The new tutorial is fun. You wake up from cryosleep, are given instructions, and you get to kill some Grineer.

But, none of the other mechanics are explained.

 

I have no idea whether DE is working on an extensive tutorial or not, but I believe it needs to be done.

 

It doesn't have to be as elaborate as the current one.

Just a menu section called "Training exercises" or something.

 

Example.

Training Exercises

Wallrunning - An excercise that just involves basic wallrunning, and jumping from wall to wall.

Wall Jumping - An exercise that involves multiple vertical jumps. (elevator shafts etc)

Enemy weak points/armour - Kind of like a target practice. The Lotus explains weak points and enemy armour. You then have the opportunity to test your aim on stationary and mobile targets

Hacking - Hacking practice. 3 terminals ranging from easy to hard. The Lotus explains how to do it.

 

Obviously there's more stuff to learn, but newbies need a way to learn the basics. Especially the wallrunning.

I was able to figure everything out on my own, but some people can't. This is just a gross generalisation, but consoles generally have more of the younger crowd, and many of them prefer to just have things told to them, rather than discovering on their own.

 

In addition to training exercises

Another menu that has written tutorial info with images for assistance.

Once you've done all the training exercises, a new menu will become available "Training manual"

 

This just has some more basic info with some pictures to help out.

Just more explanations of wallrunning, weak spots etc.

 

It could be tied in with gameplay. Once you discover something ingame, it could be added into your manual. Such as Void lasers, secret areas etc.

 

This is turning into another fan concept now...

Anyway, the game needs more tutorials imo, especially with the upcoming PS4 release.

 

DE.

If this thread doesn't get seriously derailed, or give you some infallible reason for locking it, I am respectfully asking you to refrain from locking it.

 

Yes, I know that you have seen the original, and I know that Megan (apparently. <-- Not an accusation of lying) has taken notes.

But, I'm using this thread as a means of compiling all my issues, and will be constantly adding to it.

I can't add to it if it is locked.

 

It would be much harder to moderate and track if I post 15+ topics in various sections, rather than this single topic with everything in one.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Nugget_

[Luminati07]

After 3 attempts, I finally reserve the first post for myself, lol.

 

*Edit 15*

The Derelict Vaults

Right.

 

This isn't my main point, but I'll touch on it anyway.

There's already quite a few posts of displeasure in regards to farming keys to make keys and using keys to use keys.

Honestly, it's getting pretty irritating.

I understand that this is there for players to use up their Void key surplus, but it just seems like a very...easy way of doing things. It doesn't really seem like it was thought out all that well.

But, I'm just a player, I don't work in the field, and I don't have another solution (mainly because I cannot be bothered thinking of one at this point), so I'll leave it at that.

 

Anyway, my main issue is this "Successfully complete the mission and your reward will be one of 16 new Corrupted Mods."

 

If one of these has a 2% chance of dropping, that's -500 billion respect points, DE.

Seriously, if you've done this, and it's datamined, imagine the state of the forums.

 

The datamined results of the void results were bad enough, the forums would be an utter S#&$storm if it was discovered that these new mods have stupid RNG chances as well.

 

Another thing, the key effects.

-75% shields

-75% health

-50% speed

-75% damage dealt

 

The health and shields, I can live with.

No. The problems are the speed and damage debuffs.

 

Who thought of this??

One makes a player completely lag behind, and one makes a player next to useless...

Just seems like these are just going to cause frustration, rather than actually let us adopt some form of challenge.

 

I get that it adds risk/reward, but surely there were better options out there.

-x% armour

-x% energy

-x% health/energy absorption from orbs

-x% power efficiency

 

I mean, these keys are meant to have "debilitating effects on Warframes", so why does that reduce my gun damage by 75%? Just seems very unnecessary.

 

My last point is this.

"- Once the Vault is open, retrieve the contents and complete the mission before the Ship self destructs."

Really?

So, I can get past the key crafting, the irritating effects and the RNG. But, I could do all that, only for the mission to fail? losing my mod in the process?

 

What if the 75% health key is used, then we have to complete the mission and make it to extraction with a -50% speed and -75% damage dealt player.

Sure, the Orokin Derelicts aren't exactly hard, but this just sounds like DE is trying to put in some semblance of difficulty into the game. But, it's quickly realised that it's completely artificial.

 

Honestly, this is just another example I can use of DE saying "We know RNG and grinding is an issue, we are working on lessening it", then they just release something with more RNG and more grinding

 

*Edit 16*

Rare 10 mods

*Sigh*

Do I even need to explain.

 

Another example of "we are trying to lessen the grind", and then we get something that says the complete opposite.

 

What were you guys thinking???

Is this endgame? Is this supposed to be the fulfilling content that we have been waiting for?

I'm serious when I ask those questions. Players have been begging for worthwhile content for months, and we get these...

 

I just...I'm at a loss for words.

1000+ cores, 1 million+ credits

 

I do get that you're releasing content that isn't intended for players to just get immediately (inb4 instant gratification), but this is absolutely not the way to go.

 

GG de. GG...

 

I'm not going to offer any kind of solution for this, mainly because it won't make any kind of difference.

 

Direct link - 

 

I get that the video is more for comedic value. But, S#&$ like that just should not happen.

Whether it's the utterly ridiculous fusion core amount, or the sheer amount of left clicking. It's a joke either way.

 

*Edit 17*

Drop tables

Ah, the drop tables.

 

I've intentionally held off on talking about this, mainly because of the S#&$storm that generally ensues.

But, it's about time I gave my opinion on the matter.

 

I'm sure you've all heard about DE encrypting their drop tables by now.

No doubt you've also heard both sides of the argument.

"DE is evil, now they can ninja nerf drop rates"

"DE is good. This is a good thing" (After reading plenty of posts, this argument is usually backed up with nothing. While, the negative feedback is usually supported with something)

 

Anyway.

Honestly, I don't think that DE would be stupid enough to do this for the only purpose of stopping datamining so they can ninja nerf the drop rates. That would be PR suicide.

Now, keep in mind, that doesn't mean they didn't. I just don't think they are that @(*()$ stupid.

 

DE has been pretty great lately. They've responded to feedback well, and while there are still plenty of issues present, they have been stepping up their game.

 

I just think the encryption came at the worst time possible.

 

Now.

I do not think the datamining had absolutely nothing to do with it. Honestly, I believe that if the tables were not datamined/released, DE would not have encrypted them, or they would have held off on it.

 

I find it extremely hard to believe that it's pure coincidence that they were encrypted soon after they were released to the public. I just don't put that much trust in coincidence.

 

All in all, I don't think it was malicious, but I do think it was intentional.

 

With the encryption, we are now getting this Codex system. I think the better option would have been to encrypt the drop tables closer to the Codex release. That way, we aren't left in the complete dark until that day.

 

*Edit 18*

Livestream 16, Gradivus Dilemma and returning impressions.

Livestream 16

Alrighty, well. This was a huge step up from the absolute mess that livestream 14 was.

Rebecca even told the team to stop screwing around at the start (I laughed when I heard her say it. Huge props to Rebecca for that)

I actually had a full analysis of everything in the livestream typed out, but the file got @(*()$ corrupted (Excuse my language. I spent hours on that analysis and am pretty &!$$ed off about it).

All in all, it was a good livestream, though there was the occasional dodging by the staff members.

The main example I can think of is about the drop table encryption.

 

Steve was asked about it, and instead of going into the encryption in detail, he told us about the Codex and completely ignored it. Whether it was intentional or not doesn't matter, it's done.

 

I'm waiting for livestream 17, there's still quite a lot of stuff I'd love DE to address, and I plan on submitting my question when the thread is created.

 

Gradivus Dilemma

Ah.

I'm sure we've all read the forum posts about how the event is a failure and whatnot. Here's my thoughts on it.

 

Good in theory, bad in execution

The event is a good idea. Choosing the lesser evil (even if that choice is completely illusory and forced), and fighting alongside your enemies. Lore breaking and forced choices aside, it is a good idea in essence.

 

However, the event fell short in execution. Especially with the battle pay rewards.

I had a good laugh to myself when I heard the rewards were left to RNG, considering all the complaints about RNG in the game.

 

Early on, the rewards basically spelled the end of the war. While it is balancing out, those first few rewards completely blew the event out of proportion.

 

This was the first event of this type DE has done, so I think peoples expectations were set far too high.

Hopefully future events of this nature are better.

 

In terms of the actual missions, I was kind of disappointed.

Fighting alongside the Grineer was new, but it didn't feel different.

It didn't seem like there was any change in gameplay.

 

It still felt like it was just 3 other Tenno and myself running through a mission, slaughtering everything in sight. Having Grineer allies didn't make a difference.

Again, hopefully it's made more meaningful in future events.

 

Overall, this event was a step up from previous ones in some areas, but it did fall flat on others.

 

*Edit*

Added further impressions.

 

Alright.

I've been playing it a bit more, and I've got a few more things to add.

 

1. The actual missions. This is a huge factor in why I'm not enjoying this event. Running extermination over and over is boring as anything.

It makes it even worse when you consider the rewards. I'll get to that next.

2. The rewards.

They're great, and enticing. I think the Machete Wraith looks badass.

But, when I have to run 25 extermination missions to be eligible, that's a pain in the &amp;#&#33;.

It'd be fine if the missions were varied, but they're not. At all.

 

After I did 10 missions, I could already feel my brain numbing. 25 truly felt like a chore to get to. 

I can't even imagine trying to do 100...

 

Seriously DE. This was a huge, huge mistake. Was the constant extermination missions even thought through? Or was it just added as an afterthought?

 

Impressions after ~1 month off

I hadn't actually played the game for a good while.

I think the last time I played was soon after Update 10 was released. (Sometime in mid September, I believe)

 

In that month off, there have been new additions to the game, and some changes.

 

To be honest. My impressions aren't all that different.

The market is still infuriating, the weapons still feel stale (haven't tried the crossbow yet), and the missions are as dull as ever.

 

Study is starting to slow down, so I'll probably be playing a bit more. But, if I'm totally honest, if the game doesn't make some serious changes within the next couple of major updates. I don't see myself sticking around for very long. :(

 

I seriously hope it doesn't come to that.

 

*Edit within an edit*

 

Are you kidding??

I'm starting to think Vor's Prize was just a full on troll by the devs.

This is just...I...I'm at a loss for words.

 

___________________________

 

I may get around to typing up another livestream summary if I can be bothered, but for now, you'll have to live with what little I wrote above.

 

As usual, I'll continue to add to this thread as more things are added.

 

 

*Edit 19*

Livestream 17

I just finished watching Livestream, here's my thoughts.

 

- Cutscene was great. Gave us some kind of insight into who Alad V is, rather than just some random enemy that we've heard about.

 

I'll skip the nostalgia part.

 

- PS4/PC migration. Same as what was said in Steve's thread, here - 

Not much to say here. I don't plan on playing on the PS4.

 

- Unreleased mods in the game

Just some coding errors that made it in.

Not much to say here. I didn't get any of them, nor do I care.

 

Sprint speed aura is going to be nerfed into the ground.

 

- Primed Chamber. "We're looking for a good time to release it"

Someday it'll be back.

 

- Corpus whip is in the works.

 

- Grineer Forest art

 

- DE member playtesting Ruk.

 

- Grineer Polearmart /  is being worked on.

 

- Badass looking flak cannon.

This is the first weapon in a very long time that I've been genuinely anticipating.

 

- Gradivus Dilemma. 8.4 million total missions.

How did the dev team think the event went?

 

The battlepay went to S#&$ in the first day. 

 

The dev team all said they thought it went great.

They didn't even touch on how making players run extermination missions over and over is mind numbingly boring and tedious.

Apparently it was all sunshine and rainbows.

 

I'd have liked them to actually admit that the execution was bloody awful.

 

- Hacker screwing with the event.

"Think it went well until the end"

^Not even. Not even close.

 

It's a shame that a hacker screwed up the event. Even though it had its problems, a hacker messing with it is a sad thing.

 

- "100 missions may have been a little much"

......No S#&$.

 

- "The gameplay of that event was spectacular"

Welp. Definitely disagreeing here.

 

To me, the AI partners made next to no difference in gameplay.

 

It was still the same old shoot x enemies in the face, press 4 for death, run to extraction.

Sure, we had some allies, but it still felt the same, and barely any different.

 

To say that it was "spectacular". I think is a serious overstatement.

 

- Ruk fight preview

Not much to say here. Looks good.

 

Hopefully it'll be challenging.

 

- Invasion will be returning.

Not much to say here.

 

- Maybe random alerts

 

- Zanuka project, soon.

 

- Invasion will be coming into the game.

The goal is to have Invasion in the game permanently.

 

- Will we get spam in our inboxes from Ruk? Yes.

 

- When is the losing faction's gun coming?

All the guns were melted down to create more MOAs

 

- Damage model.

Still working on it. 

 

All weapons will have pros and cons towards HP, armour and shield damage.

 

- Will the new damage system change the difficulty?

Mag's pull/M. Prime are going to be tweaked.

 

Thank christ for that. Sure, people are going to be &!$$ed. It's just like the Hek. That thing was blatantly overpowered, and anyone that cries about such a nerf are (mostly) the ones that are upset that the thing they rely on is going to be weaker.

 

Nobody can honestly say that Pull is not overpowered, that power is a complete joke.

M. Prime deals a S#&$load of damage, slows enemies and applies a debuff so the team deals more damage.

Look at that, then look at every single other ult out there.

 

M. Prime is also a joke. Don't pretend it isn't.

 

Yes. The damage system will alter the difficulty.

 

- Trading.

Trading Kiosk concept art.

 

Trading is working. Just needs some more polishing before release.

Mods, keys and weapon parts. (no completed WF parts)

 

Rarity for rarity.
 

Not much to say here. I'm not one of those that is eagerly anticipating trading.

Good that it's finally coming soon though. (although, "coming soon" means absolutely nothing to me after all this time)

 

- Scarf physics.

The cloth physics are being worked on. Will definitely be changed at some point.

 

I only recently equipped a Syandana that I bought. Thank god the physics are being worked on...Were they even tested before release? The physics are hilarious at best.

 

- STFU and get on with the questions.

You've only got 15 mins left, and there's a S#&$load of issues still in the game that haven't been addressed.

 

- How will the Codex work? Secondary? Gear slot?

 

Mostly automated, human error minimal.

 

Don't know how it's going to work. Right now, it's a gear item.

 

I have to say, I'd rather the scanning be fully manual.

It's just not fun if everything is automatic. I want to miss things. I want to have to look for new entries.

Making it automatic is just boring. You should have to actually look for these entries, not just have them spoonfed to you.

 

- New player experience.

Yes.

 

Another version of the tutorial.

Wallrunning tutorial.

Will give you a first mod.

 

New players will be matched with new players.

 

Not much to say, apart from about damn time.

 

- Derf Anyo

"We notice it"

 

How about you just say "We're not working on it", or "we're considering it".

None of this throwing us a splinter of a bone stuff.

 

- Do humans exist in Warframe, that aren't Grineer/Corpus?

Yes.

 

- Jungle concept art.

 

- Ship concept

 

- Shipyard concept

 

- More concept art

 

- Warframe merch store should hopefully be up by Christmas.

 

- Next event is being written.

 

 

Ugh, finally that's written out.

 

Overall, I thought it was a pretty average stream. The concept art was nice (especially that Flak Cannon. You may as well just reach into my wallet and take my money).

 

But. Again, the pressing issues.

There were plenty of questions in the livestream thread that should have been answered. Whether it was due to dodging. Rebecca handpicking the questions, or the amount of upvotes, doesn't matter.

 

I had a question about wtf is going on with the market. The prices are getting out of @(*()$ hand, and I'm over it.

The prices are getting ever higher, especially now the weapons are getting "cooler" than the older ones.

And, naturally, because these weapons are shinier and newer, DE jacks up the prices to @(*()$ ridiculous levels.

 

Latest releases.

 

Soma - 265 plat (~$17)

Ballistica - 240 plat (~$16)

Nekros - 375 plat ($25)

 

I hardly even use the market anymore because I refuse to buy any more platinum. What the hell is supposed to entice me to purchase when I see those prices?

 

I understand that Forma, potatoes and slots are reasonable, but those are just absolutely laughable.

 

Again, I hardly use the market, and it's the main thing that's keeping me bitter. Why? Because I feel disappointed that DE refuses to sort it out.

Like I've used before, the prime example is the Dual Skana. 125 platinum.

What a joke...

 

Anyway, enough of my ranting.

 

*Edit 20*

The U11 Mega Edit - WIP

 

First off, HUGE thanks to 'Psychosist' for helping me sort out the problem with the bolding/underlines.

I can finally add to the thread again!

LEGEND!

 

Update 11

Overall, I thought Update 11 was fairly successful. It had many issues, but it was better than a lot of previous updates.

 

The additions will be covered in the following sections.

 

Damage 2.0

Let's start with the big one.

 

What do I think of damage 2.0? I think it's great.

Is it perfect? Far from it.

 

Damage 2.0 is miles ahead of damage 1.0, no matter what issues it brought.

It does need tweaking, however.

 

First, get rid of that stupid mod tied to location nonsense. That was an awful move.

Surely somebody at DE could have foreseen this &!$$ing off those who had Forma'd their weapons a lot...

 

This should be top priority. People have spent Forma fixing DE's mistake, and it should never have happened.

This shouldn't be something that you work on for 3 months. This should be fixed ASAP!

Horrible decision.

 

Now, damage 2.0 was meant to remove the horrible armour scaling from enemies, and make high level mobs not so...spongy.

Did damage 2.0 achieve this? Not even close.

 

Armour scaling isn't so atrocious, but enemies have such high HP scaling now, that high level mobs are nothing more than bullet sponges.

 

Grineer become armour sponges, everything else becomes HP sponges.

So, in all honesty, at high levels, damage 2.0 doesn't really achieve its goal. Which is a shame.

 

Alad V Event

lol.

 

Alrighty, so, like I said in a previous edit (about the Gradivus Dilemma), DE seemed to think that the gameplay of the last event was phenomenal and almost flawless.

 

The main complaint was that running Exterminate missions over and over is abso-@(*()$-lutely mind numbing.

So, what do they do? You guessed it, give us MORE exterminate missions.

 

Christ, DE didn't learn a thing from their last event.

 

I refused to participate, simply because I will not support an event that is as dull and as monotonous as that.

 

This 'event' was god-damned awful. I hope we never see these endless Exterminate runs ever again. Ever. Again.

 

Prime Access

*Sigh*

 

Here we go.

 

 

Qmoney sums up my thoughts pretty well.

"The plan is to refresh the packs with new items each time."   <---- meaning every time a new pack comes out, a greater disparity grown between people who spend ridiculous amounts on the game and those who have spent more than enough (most people), and those who would join in the future (required to keep this game worth playing), many of whom decide not to.

 

Ugh... prime packs are becoming the new norm?  I got into this game because it seemed to have very little purchase-only content.  Now, if you have a prime frame, it shows that you don't care about money, not that you have earned it.  Not only that, people in the community have to data mine and post data on a 3rd party site just to gain enough confidence in your stupid drop tables to throw a day away trying to get enough keys to find the one rare piece (ember prime BP, anyone?).  Do capture keys even drop from defenses anymore?

 

I love this game, but are you really so full of hubris to expect people to continue shell out $100 every time you release new prime content?  It is not a AAA game... certainly not yet.  Even a AAA game isn't worth that much.  You don't even host games on your own servers!!!

 

Player hosted sessions should mean that your marginal cost of having a new player join is next to nothing.  Which means your goal should be attracting new players, not trying to wring every last cent out of players who are already addicted.

 

Why do you think that your player base grew so rapidly?  It was your less aggressive micro-transaction policies.  I have seen this with several games, and you are going to see the player base dry up, as you trade the future of this game and the faith of all your fans for a quick cash out.

 

The next few decisions you make will be the difference between players continuing to recommend the game to their friends honestly, or having the caveat that 'the coolest frames are purchase only' (or nearly impossible to farm). 

 

"Well, its free to play, how much do I have to pay to get that stuff?  50$?  Does that get all of it?  To get it all I have to spend $100?!?!  MORE THAN ONCE?!?!  I can get ANY AAA game, with all content, for under $100."  This is what my gamer friends say about World of Tanks, MWO, etc. when you suggest they start playing.

 

Which means that smart players will go with a different game, UNLESS, you turn back from this path of darkness.

 

 

Screw Prime Access. It's a terrible idea. 

Charging such an unbelievably high price for the latest Prime gear is a complete @(*()$ joke.

 

This is the kind of S#&$ that really &!$$es me off when it comes to Warframe.

Get rid of Prime Access. 

 

What makes this worse?

Drop table encryption.

 

What are the drop rates for the gear?

Oh, we have no idea.

 

I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if some were 0.67% drop rate, to entice people to buy these packs.

(Glaive Prime Disc in particular).

 

With encryption and Prime Access, DE can do all sorts of shady stuff and get away with it.

 

Stalker

So, obviously there's been a lot of talk about the Stalker lately. Mainly his buffs.

 

In all honesty...I agree with the buffs (though, they definitely overshot it by a bit).

The Stalker is now something to be feared, not laugh at when you're beating him up and stealing his blueprints.

 

Obviously he needs tweaking (which DE should hurry with), but I think he's in a good place.

 

Nerfs

Before I start here. I don't believe DE did a good job with the nerfs.

They overnerfed these things to hell.

 

Instead of making them decent, but fair. They made them both next to useless.

 

Quick Thinking

 

Alrighty. On to the touchy subject of nerfs.

 

Quick Thinking is first.

Honestly, anyone who is genuinely surprised/outraged by this tweak should be ashamed. It was blatantly overpowered.

Anything that essentially gives you invulnerability is bound to get a nerf sooner or later.

 

It's the player's fault for spending plat on Quick Thinking/Rage.

If they had simply thought for 20 seconds "Will this invulnerability combo get nerfed at some point in the near future", they would have been golden.

 

Anything in the game that provides that kind of ridiculous power disparity is going to get nerfed.

 

Brakk

 

lol, here we go.

 

I'm guessing we all saw the hilarious S#&$storm on the forums after the Brakk nerf?

 

Well, do I agree with it? Yes.

Was it a smart move? Hell no.

 

Lately, instead of releasing slight upgrades (The Vandal series) during events, DE has been releasing weapons that are blatantly more powerful than their little brothers (Straith, Brakk)

 

This is a TERRIBLE move.

Not only does this make it impossible for many players to reach the highest damage potential, it also guarantees a S#&$storm on the forums if a nerf does happen.

 

The most powerful weapons in the game should not be exclusive event rewards. Very slight upgrades are fine.

Whatever happened to releasing exclusive skins.

 

Players should not need a stupidly powerful weapon as incentive to participate in an event. Players should participate in an event because it's fun! (Which the last 2 have been anything but)

 

The Brakk did need a nerf, but the fact that it was an exclusive that players had to suffer through 100 mind numbing Exterminate missions for, made it a terrible weapon to Nerf.

 

DE, you need to stop releasing the most powerful weapons as event rewards.

Make events enjoyable, and give us an awesome looking skin.

 

I don't even need to mention that this also brings in the issue of mastery points.

 

Codex

Overall, I like the Codex.

 

It has a tonne of factual errors (Jackal appearing in like...5 planets, for example).

But, overall, I think it's a great addition to the game.

 

You need to remove the exclusives from the Codex, though. No completionist wants to see the Braton Vandal that is unobtainable.

 

Nothing else to really say here.

 

Lore

DE seems to finally be bringing out some lore, as ambiguous as it may be.

 

The lore is interesting enough to keep me active. (Why did we kill the Orokin, where did the Stalker get his Warframe?).

 

I hope they flesh it out a bit more, though.

 

Also, I hope all lore isn't just a paragraph in the Codex, that's a pretty uninspired way of introducing lore to the game.

Here's my suggestion on an extremely exciting way to bring new lore - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/144122-the-path-of-trials-an-exciting-way-to-bring-lore-to-the-game'>Link

Yeah, it's shameless self promotion, but give it a read, and leave your thoughts in the thread :)

 

Void Dilution

This needs to be fixed ASAP!

 

With U11 came some horrible dilution.

Ember Prime - 4 new parts

Sicarus Prime - 3 new parts

Glaive Prime - 3 new parts

 

That's 10 new items added to the Void drop tables.

How did DE remedy the potential dilution? They spread these parts over multiple mission types.

 

Not only does this NOT help dilution, it &!$$es off players immensely.

 

DE, you need to take a serious look at the Void, and how rewards are handled.

Dilution is getting worse and worse.

 

With your current obsession with Prime gear, this should be one of your top priorities.

Screw getting these horrible new Tenno Reinforcements, implement a token system or something equally fair to remedy the dilution problem.

 

Vor's Prize

lol.

 

Darvo

Seems like Darvo is still being used as a band-aid for the market.

 

$40 for a few S#&$ty reskins and a colour pack? Everyone thinks it's awful.

Instead of just reducing the awful plat cost, DE gives it a discount for x amount of hours.

 

It's lazy and gives the impression that DE is just afraid to adjust market prices.

 

The market needs an overhaul, DE. I've said it countless times.

 

Communicate with us. If you have absolutely no intention (and all signs point to this) of fixing the market, tell us. Don't leave us in the dark hoping that the change will come eventually.

 

The Market

Do I even need to explain?

 

Cernos - 225 Platinum

Lecta - 175 Platinum

 

These 2 weapons are some of the laziest "new" weapons I've ever seen.

 

The Cernos is nothing more than a reskin, a new sound, and some new values.

The Lecta is nothing more than a longsword with some new animations.

 

So, what in the F*** justifies $15 for the Cernos?

What justifies the Lecta costing ~$12?

 

Every single damn time DE releases a new weapon it angers me.

These are not new weapons, these are reskins.

 

Are you just releasing this so people can get more mastery points? If so, the mastery system needs an overhaul.

 

This is just...

*Sigh*...No words.

 

Weapon Variety/The Generic Gunplay of Warframe

I won't put all my thoughts here, check this thread for what I mean. - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/144108-weapons-20-overhauling-the-boring-and-generic-gunplay-of-warframe'>Link

 

Currently, we have ~120 weapons in the game.

How many of those are "unique". I count 7.

 

Ignis, Ogris, Flux Rifle, Torid, Synapse, Tigris, Ballistica

 

We're in a seriously bad state when the most interesting weapons in the game are a rocket launcher and a flamethrower.

 

The Army Men series from PS1/N64 had these weapons.

This is a space ninja, sci-fi game. So why in the hell do we have dozens and dozens of boring, generic guns?

 

Remember, Warframe is a third-person shooter. The gunplay comes first. If the gunplay is boring, then what is it?

 

Please give that thread a read and leave your thoughts/support.

 

 

*Edit 21*

Update 11.3 - WIP

I haven't played much of 11.3 yet, but I really want to talk about the Infested.

 

Why?

Why would you do this.

 

Infested invasions? Great.

Removing every single infested missions and making the exclusive to these invasions. Abso-@(*()$-lutely terrible.

 

As CloudPies said, this was a seriously underhanded way at giving us a "reason" to go the the Derelicts.

 

Seriously, DE. This was a God-awful decision, and should never have happened.

Xini, Cyath?

 

What about Palus, the place I wrote a guide on?

 

I honestly cannot believe that any DE member that proposed this change did not foresee a backlash.

This is easily one of the worst designs in recent memory.

 

At the very least, give the Infested their own planet.

 

-50 respect points, DE.

Very, very bad decision.

 

I should go to the derelicts because they are fun, not because you force me to.

 

*Edit 22*

The Harvester

Hahahahaha, oh God.

 

Yet again, the forums are up in arms.

And, again, the culprit is RNG.

 

Players want the Detron. That much is certain.

DE constantly says they are aware that RNG is a glaring issue, and they promise to lessen it.

 

It seems like every single time we hear a DE rep say that, the next day some absurd RNG based thing is released.

Enter: The Harvester.

 

Hours before the Harvester threads popped up on the forums, Rebecca had written a post about RNG and how the team is working on it.

 

This is a joke.

No, it's beyond a joke.

 

So, not only is the Detron hidden behind the wall of RNG which is a randomly spawning mini-boss, but it's also hidden behind a second RNG wall which dictates which part you will get.

 

I'm going to end it here. I'm not going to bother with this.

 

For the last couple of weeks, I've just been sitting back and laughing at failure after failure.

Overcomplicating the damage system

Infested being removed

Cicero Crisis

Harvester

 

It's hilarious and sad at the same time.

I want to see the game do well, I truly do. 

 

But, when DE promises to lessen RNG, but constantly pull S#&$ like this, how can I take them seriously?

How can I possibly have faith when this happens time and time again.

 

For me, Update 12 is going to be the last chance. 

 

*Edit 23*

Void rewards being moved to the Derelict

Ok, so Void dilution is a fairly constant topic these days, and with good reason.

 

Each time there is a major (or even minor) update that brings new Prime gear, it increases the severity of the issue.

 

I'm talking about dilution.

I've talked about RNG to death, but it goes hand in hand with this.

 

Let's say player 1 runs 50 missions and does not get the parts he needs.

Now, player 2 runs the same mission 4 times, and gets everything.

 

Does that sound fair? of course not.

The player who received the parts he/she wanted was not being rewarded for skill or persistence. He or she was rewarded based on a randomly generated number that dictated the outcome.

 

Now, RNG is not inherently a bad thing. No, RNG can be good in many cases.

But, where Warframe falters is its reliance on it. 

 

It's gotten to the point where Warframe relies so much on RNG to dish out its content, that it's doing far more harm than good.

 

A prime example being the Harvester.

New mini-boss? Great!

The Detron being added? Great!

More content to tide people over? Great!

3 layers of RNG are standing in your way? Not so great.

 

That's where Warframe is going wrong, and that should be one of the highest priorities of Digital Extremes to fix.

 

Now, on to the actual topic of this edit.

The Derelicts. Or rather, Void rewards in the Derelicts.

 

Before we start here, if you haven't seen this thread, please give it a read so I do not need to repeat myself - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/151602-im-getting-so-sick-of-de-incentivizing-the-derelicts'>Link

 

Like I've said many times, Void dilution is an ever increasing problem.

 

So, since several rewards originally from the Orokin Void have been moved to the Derelicts, this may seem (at first glance) that the drop tables are less diluted.

 

True, to an extent.

 

However, when you stop to think about it, you realise how short term this solution really is.

 

If DE continues to add things to the Derelict drop tables, then what? They get diluted as well.

Then what do we do? Continuously farm these two locations for parts, simply because DE wants to force encourage people to go to the Derelicts?

 

If this is being used as an extremely (and I DO mean extremely) short-term solution, then I'm OK with it.

But, we've seen DE use band-aids as a way at fixing things, then completely neglecting those down the line.

 

I really do hope that DE is not intending to make the Derelict into a...Second Void type of thing.

It's the bandaidiest of bandaids. It really is.

 

So many players have been clamouring for a token system (which really would solve all the dilution problems if done right).

The last response that I recall from the devs was "We don't want a third currency".

 

That's a fairly lazy excuse if I may say so myself.

So, even though players are getting sick and tired of RNG and dilution, you don't want to make it fair, simply because of another currency?

 

This is one thing I'll wait out.

I'm predicting that DE will simply keep on this track and use it as a second Orokin Void, but I have been surprised before.

 

Like I said in my last edit, Update 12 is DE's last chance for me.

If it fails to bring anything worthwhile or meaningful, I think I really will have to step away from Warframe, which is sad, because the game had such potential.

 

*Edit 24*

Endgame

This is something that I've actually been talking about on the forums a lot lately.

 

Endgame is a pretty frequent topic here, but, a lot of the time, people just say "Where is endgame".

It's hard for anyone to work with that, because it gives no indication of what that particular person means.

 

Endgame has a slew of meanings.

Raids

Dungeons

Hard enemies

Hard bosses

Giant bosses

Raid bosses

Lengthy missions/dungeons

 

etc. etc.

 

Now, obviously Warframe cannot be compared to the likes of World of Warcraft or Final Fantasy XIV.

However, the same principles of endgame still apply.

 

Difficult content aimed at players who are near, or at their peak.

What does this mean?

Simple.

 

A person with a level 4 Serration, level 3 Redirection and other low-mid level mods would get slaughtered.

I saw a comment on another thread regarding endgame, this player said something along the lines of "But, if you make it so players with low level mods can't do it, then they're just going to get frustrated.

 

It should be available to everyone"

 

All I can say to that is...wat?

 

Endgame is endgame. It's geared towards players who have that level 9/10 Serration, 9/10 Redirection or 4+ Forma weapons.

I don't see how someone can take issue with endgame not being available to low level players...

You don't see me playing Final Fantasy XIV and going to turn 3 of the Coil with ilvl 30 gear.

 

That's principle 1. Difficult (whatever that can mean) content aimed purely at high level players.

 

This is one that is a little harder to do in Warframe.

 

Other games reward high level armour, weapons, accessories etc.

 

Would that be ok in Warframe?

It really is hard to say.

 

On one hand, you get people complaining about not being able to get that endgame gun/Warframe/mod/skin.

On the other hand, you get people who say "Well, I worked for it. I got my &amp;#&#33; to endgame, so why shouldn't I get this?"

 

And, in all honesty, I agree with the latter.

If endgame is genuinely difficult, and takes some serious skill to complete, then why should those players not be rewarded for their efforts?

 

I do not think that endgame should reward some blatantly OP gun, Warframe or mod.

But, something that's actually worth it? Sure!

 

Endgame rewards are a tricky thing, you need to strike a balance of power/level.

If endgame turns out to be a faceroll that rewards something extremely powerful. Bad.

If endgame is supremely difficult that rewards something marginally better than something you can find on a level 10 mission. Bad.

 

In regards to this part, I am all for endgame rewards, I think they have to be there. They just have to be.

Unless the endgame is absolutely phenomenal, (and I mean phenomenal) you're going to need some kind of rewards.

 

______________________________________________________

 

Ok, moving on.

 

What is endgame?

 

Everyone has their different opinions. And endgame comes in many different forms, many of which would not work in Warframe.

 

Dungeons - Very common in MMORPGs. They tend to have pretty difficult mobs and hard bosses.

Would they work in Warframe? Kind of.

 

The difficult mobs part could only work in 1 way.

Advanced AI and predetermined maps.

 

As we know, the AI has issues due to the randomly generated nature of the missions.

 

If endgame had pre-determined maps, then that AI issue is no longer a factor.

This would give DE the opportunity to give enemies some serious tactics that make it more difficult.

 

Dungeon mobs are generally just trash that just soak up damage.

I think that kind of thing would not work in Warframe. They need to be spongy to an extent. But, tactics and predetermined maps are the way to go.

 

Bosses

 

Generally in dungeons, you have 2-3 minibosses, then the main boss of that dungeon/map/mission.

 

That would work great in Warframe.

 

Predetermined map, 3 minibosses (similar to the current bosses we have. Mobs with special abilities and more damage/hp)

Then, at the very end of this mission, you come across the main boss, which is 100% unique.

 

These kinds of this would probably work in Warframe (if done right)

Start out with 1 dungeon/mission/raid/whatever, and slowly build on it.

 

________________________________________

 

Superbosses

 

Ah, my favourite kind.

I play a lot of Final Fantasy XIV. Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Ultima Weapon.

Those are all immensely fun boss fights (except Titan. He's a pain in the &amp;#&#33;)

 

These boss fights have no trash mobs to deal with, no messing around.

You start the mission in the boss arena.

 

These bosses require careful coordination as well as situational awareness.

What do I mean by that?

If you aren't paying attention. You die.

 

If your team needs you for something and you ignore it. You die.

 

To me, this lends itself to the perfect kind of real Warframe endgame.

I won't talk about it further, here's a concept I wrote up for one of these endgame bosses (more are coming eventually) - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/159814-boss-concept-the-grineer-destroyer-a-boss-aimed-at-endgame/

 

______________________________________________________

 

Last thing before I finish with this edit

 

There are two types of endgame.

 

One type is aimed at players who are just reaching endgame.

This is the lower tier of it. Aimed at high level players, but not the highest.

 

Second is the endgame of endgame.

This one is aimed at those who are pretty much at the end of the game.

They've got all their equipment, armour and accessories.

 

This is used to give the absolute best items in the game, as well as test the player's skill.

 

Ideally, Warframe should have both at some point.

 

____________________________________________________

 

Keep in mind, I am not asking for endgame to be added ASAP. I don't want DE putting down current projects and focusing on endgame.

I do, however, think that this should be something they seriously consider working on.

 

The last I heard of endgame was months ago "We know players want endgame, we will work on providing it".

Since then, radio silence.

 

I just want a solid answer

"Is there a single piece of endgame content being worked on?"

"No."

 

"Is there a single piece of endgame even in the planning stage?"

"No"

 

That's all I want. Just a yes/no answer. No more of this vague bullS#&$ like "Yeah, we know it's a problem. We know players want it"

 

*Edit 25*

Prime Trading

Looks like we've got another forum S#&$storm on our hands, surprise surprise.

 

Alright, I want to look at both sides of the coin here.

 

First, those against it.

The main argument from this side (Though, not the only one) is that players who worked hard for these Prime weapons are being shafted because any player can just buy some plat and instantly get the weapons that other worked so hard for.

 

Second, those for it.

Honestly, the ONLY things I've seen this side say are:

"Excuse me while I use your tears to make a tonne of plat from all my Prime parts"

"OMG, stop crying"

 

You can already see which side I'm going for.

 

Those in the first group have a COMPLETELY valid argument.

The whole idea behind Prime gear in the first place was to provide "prestige" weaponry, items that couldn't be obtained with Platinum, and required players to put in some effort to get them (Though, effort is defined by RNG)

 

What happens when you add them to trading?

The very foundation of the Prime gear idea is gone.

Instead of being "prestige" gear that players could brag about and show off. Now they simply become more weapons that are flat out more powerful than their non-Prime counterparts.

 

The other side.

The main argument that people have is that they are going to be making a S#&$ tonne of platinum by selling their Prime parts.

Which is true, they will.

 

But, is that even an argument? To me, it just seems like those players are not even making an attempt at looking at the big picture of what this does.

 

I'm not saying everyone on the 'for' side is being a greedy, short-sighted &#036;&amp;*^head. But, a lot of them are. Especially the ones that make dumbass comments like "While you cry, I'll be making tonnes of plat" (yes, that is actually a reply I have seen several times)

 

So, what's my stance on this?

I think it is a @(*()$ stupid idea. Through and through.

 

Not because I worked for Prime parts. In all honesty, I have barely any Prime gear, I sat through hundreds of missions and I only have the Paris Prime and the Reaper Prime to my name, so F*** RNG.

My main beef with it is what I said above. It ruins the very thing that Prime gear was even added for. Gear that had a small advantage that could only be acquired through gameplay, rather than how much money you have in your bank account.

 

My second frustration is its association with token systems, which I will type up in my next edit.

 

*Edit 26*

The Token System

Alright, something I've deliberately ignored in this thread.

 

However, with the announcement of Prime trading, I think this is a better time than any.

 

What is the majority argument against token systems?

"They will allow players to farm Void parts too quickly"

 

Well, what the F*** does Prime trading do?

Prime trading will allow players to get Prime gear MUCH faster than any token system ever could.

 

So, why is DE still ignoring the addition of a token system? 

Why are they so adamant in their idea that RNG is the way to go?

Why do they outright refuse to even acknowledge the fact that RNG is horrible?

 

So, why is DE still ignoring the addition of a token system? 

The last time I heard them mention it was a LONG time ago.

The argument they used was "We don't want another currency in the game".

 

@(*()$ seriously??

The RNG in this game is atrocious, players are constantly complaining about it.

And, you don't want to release a system that is fair to the player, simply because it...adds another currency?

I just....I'm at a loss for words.

 

Why are they so adamant in their idea that RNG is the way to go?

No answer for this one.

 

This game is supposedly in "beta".

So, why does DE refuse to experiment with things?

Why are they afraid to add stuff that might not work?

Why are they releasing band-aids then never fixing them?

 

If DE wants anyone to actually call this a beta test, they need to start treating it like a @(*()$ beta.

Want the playerbase to help you make the best game possible? Actually have us TEST stuff!

 

Don't get me wrong, releasing Prime trading is a test. But, how many times has DE released a S#&$ty band-aid, then never fixed it.

 

DE desperately needs to start treating their game like a beta test, as long as they're doing the opposite of that, I will continue to call this game a full release and that this is not a @(*()$ beta.

 

Why do they outright refuse to even acknowledge the fact that RNG is horrible?

"We know that RNG is a constant issue, and we will work on lessening it"

 

Oh, God.

Right.

 

How many times has this been said? Probably close to a dozen.

What is their solution for "lessening grind", oh, making Prime gear tradeable.

 

Again, why is DE so against a token system?

You could make the argument that Token systems allow players to get Prime gear too quickly, well, let me point you to the Prime trading announcement, that basically debunks any merit that had.

 

The last time I saw DE mention RNG was 2 livestreams ago.

When asked about it, the team looked incredibly uncomfortable. Like...It was obvious to the eye that they had no idea what to say, and no solution in the bank.

It's been how many months since the Void was added?

It's been how many months since players started getting frustrated with RNG?

 

And only a few weeks ago, DE looked uncomfortable when answering a question about RNG.

What does that tell me? They don't give two fucks about fixing it.

 

It made it pretty clear that DE has been focusing on more important things like tilesets, weapons and enemies.

Let's forget about RNG, which has caused many players to quit playing. Who cares. It's the newbies that roll in the cash, who gives a S#&$ about the vets who are frustrated with the game, they stopped buying plat a long time ago, right?

 

___________________________________________

 

This edit is turning into a bit of a rant, and rightly so. This latest announcement has me &!$$ed off.

Want to know the funniest part?

Sheldon's announcement

1. I did another pass at the distribution across the void, but the more I looked the more I wanted to do…

 

…Prime Trading.  

BOOM.gif

 

That’s right, Prime Trading.

I was genuinely laughing when I read that

"Our team has had months to think of a concrete solution to RNG complaints...Hmmmm....

What can we do?...

PRIME TRADING! BOOM!"

 

I'm going to stop here.

Let me leave you with this thread

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/160369-what-everyone-actually-means-when-they-say-token-system/

 

GG, DE...GG.

 

 

*Edit 27*

Legendary Fusion Cores

Oh, for F***'s sake.

 

I'll try my best to stay calm for this section. But, it won't be easy. This "addition" was one of the absolute worst things DE has done in recent memory.

 

First off, giving players a four hour window to go out and stockpile rank 6 Steel Charge mods.

Then, two legendary cores for EACH one they had.

 

I just....Was this even thought through for more than 10 minutes??????????

 

Warframe already has a barebones amount of fulfilling content. What happens when you allow players to literally bypass 90% of it instantly.

 

When confronted with a question about the amount of cores required to level up Rare 10 mods, Steve said "These mods aren't designed for players to level up quickly. They are aimed at those who have been here for a while"

 

Right, so what the F*** do Legendary Cores do? 

They do the exact opposite of what Steve said.

 

Honestly, it absolutely boggles my mind that this actually happened. It really does!

Who at DE genuinely thought this was a good idea?

How the hell did this make it off the brainstorming whiteboard?

 

I just....

2 minutes of thought and anybody can see what kind of effect this will have on the game.

 

Christ....

No words...

 

*Edit 28*

Why I think that RNG is never going to be changed.

Basically, this section is a copy+paste of a thread I created.

It died off long ago, but I've decided to put it here as well.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/184093-calling-it-right-now-rng-is-never-going-to-be-changed

 

Hey everyone,

 

Before I start, read the thread in full.

I know many of you will just skim it, but please put in some effort.

 

Ok.

So, I'm sure plenty of you have already seen some of my latest posts.

Basically, I think Prime trading is horrible.

 

Many people have called me out on it and just said I am complaining because I worked for it and now others get it faster than me.

That couldn't be further from the truth.

 

I have a grand total of 2 craftable Prime items. Paris Prime and the Reaper Prime, so there goes that argument.

 

Contrary to popular belief, players are able to think of things other than themselves, and that's what I'm doing when I am expressing my complaints for these systems.

 

What was the whole point of Prime gear?

They were created as 'prestige' gear. Items that were slight upgrades but couldn't be acquired with real money.

 

That's the first major complaint I have with Prime trading. It completely negates the point of Prime gear.

Why even have these prestige items when it's so easy to get them now?

 

The same argument goes for clan tech in the platinum market.

Clan tech was released as new content aimed at social clan play where weapons were released on the same foundation as Prime gear.

Prestige weaponry that was not given a monetary value.

 

If you are going to release these kinds of weapons under the idea that they are special weapons that reward player dedication and contribution, don't completely undermine that and give players the opportunity to buy them with money.

 

Second, content bypasses.

In terms of gaming (especially in F2P), mechanics that allow players to instantly bypass content is a big no no.

In a game like Warframe, it is even worse.

Compared to plenty of games out there (both p2p and f2p), Warframe has very little content.

 

Once you reach high level, there are basically 3 things to do.

High Defense waves

High Survival minutes

Void grinding

 

Allowing players to buy Prime parts for platinum essentially removes over 30% of the tiny shred of lategame content Warframe currently has.

I will never support content bypasses, and this is no exception.

 

Third, and my main point

The release of Prime trading basically tore apart any shred of hope I had for RNG fixes. Why?

 

DE has a pretty decent track record of releasing band-aids, then ignoring the wound underneath.

Let's be honest, that's all Prime trading really is. Players complained about RNG, instead of fixing it, all DE did was give players the opportunity to outright remove it.

 

I dream for a token system in Warframe

It's 100% fair to the player, but most importantly, it still requires players to put in some effort.

 

With the release of Prime trading, and my assumption that it is never going away, it basically tells me nothing other than RNG will not be fixed by DE at all.

Prime trading removes any possible need for a token system, and removes any possible need for DE to put a single thought into RNG.

They can simply say "Just trade for it"

You can tell that DE does not care about RNG or Void dilution, simply look at the latest changes.

Adding Void keys to mission rewards, the hilarious thread about Control Modules being added as defense rewards, these tell you more than enough.

 

Despite the constant complains about RNG. The constant complaints about Void dilution.

The repeated acknowledgement by the developers that they are issues. Then the complete disregard of all 3.

 

These things will not fill myself, or plenty of others, with faith.

How can I possibly take them seriously when they say "We know RNG is a problem and we will fix it" when Digital Extremes constantly does things like this.

 

All in all, given the release of Prime trading, I think it's safe to say that DE will never release a concrete fix for the ever increasing problem that is RNG.

 

 

*Edit 29*

Update 13, and why I've quit the game.

Update 13 was a mess.

Update 13 encompassed every single problem that myself, and plenty of others, have faced over the last year.

 

The countless promises of less RNG, grind and farming are nothing more than a joke at this point.

Hyping Melee 2.0 and Vay Hek to hell and back actually piqued my interest (a small amount), and I KNEW that DE would somehow find a way to royally F*** it up.

 

Enter Mr. RNG and Mrs. Farming.

 

Sorry DE, you are nothing more than a joke to me at this point.

Keep promising the community the world. God knows they'll continue to praise you, no matter what you release.

 

I fully regret spending $250+ on this game.

I fully regret providing you feedback.

I fully regret sinking 500+ hours into this mess of a game.

But, most of all, I regret telling myself that it'll get better.

 

I've had enough.

Time for me to move on to better games.

Games with a dev team willing to provide updates that are fulfilling.

Games with a direction.

Games with a clear vision.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/214180-running-an-mmorpg-is-like-running-a-country-a-discussion-about-developer-ideals/

Maybe you should learn a thing or two.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Nugget_

[Archistopheles]

So, I'm making V3 to reserve the first reply (though, it takes so long to post, this is my 3rd attempt, you guys keep beating me to the punch)

 

Oh. Sorry.

[Scherhardt]

Makes alot of sense. +10 YO.

[BlazermindEX]

Add to your mutagen samples issue that derelict missions crash for a lot of people. And they add the vaults in the derelict, without fixing it.

[Shezo]

Agree on most points.

And since DE started incripting their loot tables, for me, this was a last straw.

Without any anger or other bad emotions, i can finally say that i'm done.

Thank god for that.

Edited October 10, 2013 by DERebecca
Edited out profanity.

[kgb_cyborg]

Agree on most points.

And since DE started incripting their loot tables, for me, this was a last straw.

Without any anger or other bad emotions, i can finally say that i'm done.

Thank fuсking god for that.

Deeply suss about drop table encryption before we have any alternative in-game.

[FoxyKabam]

This Update was more painful than it should have been

[AtlasNine]

Orokin Derelict

...

No, the issue is the Mutagen Samples.

 

This is when I stopped playing.

 

I log in every so often and ask in global if it has been fixed yet.

[LukeAura]

Just leaving this here so I can be kept updated on the status of this continuing series. 
Looking forward to going through all those spoilers in my spare time! 

[fatpig84]

Derp we shall see.

[VScipii26]

I'm still fervently against the total RNG system we have.

Tokens. Or at least tokens in the place of RNG on top of RNG.

[BadAimbot]

I've quit for the time being. I keep getting a carrot dangled in my face, telling me "get me, and you'll be so much stronger!", except I have nothing to get strong for. Sure, I could chase after what's most OP right now, but that could change before we actually get some worthwhile content. I could just go after what weapons I like, but no, we gotta have weapon tiers, because we have to reward people who have worked so hard for those weapons. Because being able to use fun weapons isn't reward enough. Because Mods apparently aren't the same kind of reward. Because Warframes are somehow more special than weapons, and get to be balanced. I don't even care that those weapons are being removed. They were supposed to be crap. Fun? What is fun? All I know is grind. And those weapons didn't require enough grinding to deserve to be good.

[.Monarch]

 

After 3 attempts, I finally reserve the first post for myself, lol.

 

*Edit 15*

The Derelict Vaults

Right.

 

This isn't my main point, but I'll touch on it anyway.

There's already quite a few posts of displeasure in regards to farming keys to make keys and using keys to use keys.

Honestly, it's getting pretty irritating.

I understand that this is there for players to use up their Void key surplus, but it just seems like a very...easy way of doing things. It doesn't really seem like it was thought out all that well.

But, I'm just a player, I don't work in the field, and I don't have another solution (mainly because I cannot be bothered thinking of one at this point), so I'll leave it at that.

 

Anyway, my main issue is this "Successfully complete the mission and your reward will be one of 16 new Corrupted Mods."

 

If one of these has a 2% chance of dropping, that's -500 billion respect points, DE.

Seriously, if you've done this, and it's datamined, imagine the state of the forums.

 

The datamined results of the void results were bad enough, the forums would be an utter S#&$storm if it was discovered that these new mods have stupid RNG chances as well.

 

Another thing, the key effects.

-75% shields

-75% health

-50% speed

-75% damage dealt

 

The health and shields, I can live with.

No. The problems are the speed and damage debuffs.

 

Who thought of this??

One makes a player completely lag behind, and one makes a player next to useless...

Just seems like these are just going to cause frustration, rather than actually let us adopt some form of challenge.

 

I get that it adds risk/reward, but surely there were better options out there.

-x% armour

-x% energy

-x% health/energy absorption from orbs

-x% power efficiency

 

I mean, these keys are meant to have "debilitating effects on Warframes", so why does that reduce my gun damage by 75%? Just seems very unnecessary.

 

My last point is this.

"- Once the Vault is open, retrieve the contents and complete the mission before the Ship self destructs."

Really?

So, I can get past the key crafting, the irritating effects and the RNG. But, I could do all that, only for the mission to fail? losing my mod in the process?

 

What if the 75% health key is used, then we have to complete the mission and make it to extraction with a -50% speed and -75% damage dealt player.

Sure, the Orokin Derelicts aren't exactly hard, but this just sounds like DE is trying to put in some semblance of difficulty into the game. But, it's quickly realised that it's completely artificial.

 

Honestly, this is just another example I can use of DE saying "We know RNG and grinding is an issue, we are working on lessening it", then they just release something with more RNG and more grinding

 

 

-Been hounding for an Update, Saw an Update, Updated. Logged in, Made 1 of each keys, Logged out-

 

I don't care this is an event or permanent function. I like to participate, so I can have a chance to say, I tried that, I did that.

 

But DE has pushed me to the point of literally saying - No more.

I am fine with grinding, and am fine with RNG itself. But when you put two together, and stack a few layers more on top of that.

Honestly, DE you don't see this as an issue, is probably because you can just enter your dev code and spawn the things yourself. How about honestly testing the game out yourself from a player's perspective.

 

Does it really seem right to you that stacking layers and layers of RNG is seriously fair to players? Are you really that greedy that you have to make the game as tedious as it could get, just to force players to get fed up and buy Platinum to speed up the process?

 

DE, let me ask you this question straight up. Because you don't seem to know where you're trying to go.

 

Are you trying to make a game, to make people happy, to let people have fun?

 

Or

 

Are you trying to make a game, to make people pay money, to earn some money, a living?

 

Or

 

Are you trying to make a game, just to waste people's time, just to get no where, left frustrated, agonized, annoyed?

 

 

Let me tell you something. When I first started, I was very prone to buying Platinum. I almost buy it every chance I got, because I loved this game. But as time goes by, the tediousness of grinding on RNG. And all that utter cow feces, I'm starting to spend less and less. To this state where unless it's a huge discount, I won't touch it. Even when it's a huge discount, I won't even get a decent size package.

 

Yes, DE you have succeed in squeezing around $400 or more out of me. But let me tell you this, as much as I love Warframe. You're probably never getting another dime from me. Until you open up your eyes and get a clear view on where you're going. I hate to tell devs what to do and what not, because clearly - They should know what they're doing. Or else I would be the devs, and they would be the players. But in this case, it doesn't take a genius to notice that you're driving Warframe to the ground.

 

Oh, and I heard somewhere before. Saying all this, is DE testing the community, checking what would enrage the player base and what wouldn't. Well, let me just say this. Only an idiot would think of testing about placing another layer on top of that RNG lasagna and see if it would upset the community.

[Understray]

Agree w/ most of this post, but the Keys aren't that bad. Ask whoever is using -% speed to use Volt/Excalibur/Rhino. Whoever has -% damage dealt just needs a decent melee weapon, since the reduction only applies to guns (it's either a bug, or they need to change the text to state it only affects gun damage).

[alphex]

Another one master? O god I hope you didn't make too much changes since I already agreed with you.

 

Edit: whats with the underline? Derp derp!

Edited November 5, 2013 by alphex

[Hazmatzone]

I have no problem with the Vaults, mainly because I can go at my leisurely pace and find 4 friends to spend a day doing them, it's not that hard unless you're a solo player and even then it just takes a bit longer.

[EversorMetus]

What if this is all just a social experiment? What if DE is studying RNG effects on people?? What if we are just lab rats???

[Mak_Gohae]

You can get an average of one mutagen per wave in defense mission. Doing 25 waves and coming out with 30 mutagen is not unheard of. Like i said somewhere else, im alone in my clan and i researched and built everything alone. Tomorrow i'll have my Synapse and im going to forma a frame and my Embolist to start leveling all the new bio clan weapons in one new frame.

 

 

The disadvantages of the keys are easily countered by equipping them on frames that excel in those stats then bumping those stats even more with mods. If you have the hobble key put it on Loki with Rush, that quick restore mod, and maglev.

[AbsolutTalent]

*Edit 14*

Tutorials and newbie friendliness

After I replied to ss4chris about the current state of the game, it got me thinking a little more about the PS4 release.

 

Is Warframe going to be able to hold the new crowd in its current state? Doesn't seem like it.

 

Think about it. 

You do the tutorial, and are thrown into Mercury.

You're having a blast. Obliterating the Grineer left right and center, you defeat your first boss and get a Cronus blueprint.

 

After x hours, you decide Excalibur isn't for you, and you want a new Warframe.

 

You head to Venus to kill the Jackal to get Rhino.

30 runs later, you still need the systems.

 

That is going to be one serious deterrent for a new player. This ties in with my edit about the boss farming monotony.

I wouldn't mind running 20 missions for a Warframe if each time it was truly different and enjoyable.

 

Second part.

Tutorials.

 

The new tutorial is fun. You wake up from cryosleep, are given instructions, and you get to kill some Grineer.

But, none of the other mechanics are explained.

 

I have no idea whether DE is working on an extensive tutorial or not, but I believe it needs to be done.

 

It doesn't have to be as elaborate as the current one.

Just a menu section called "Training exercises" or something.

 

Example.

Training Exercises

Wallrunning - An excercise that just involves basic wallrunning, and jumping from wall to wall.

Wall Jumping - An exercise that involves multiple vertical jumps. (elevator shafts etc)

Enemy weak points/armour - Kind of like a target practice. The Lotus explains weak points and enemy armour. You then have the opportunity to test your aim on stationary and mobile targets

Hacking - Hacking practice. 3 terminals ranging from easy to hard. The Lotus explains how to do it.

 

Obviously there's more stuff to learn, but newbies need a way to learn the basics. Especially the wallrunning.

I was able to figure everything out on my own, but some people can't. This is just a gross generalisation, but consoles generally have more of the younger crowd, and many of them prefer to just have things told to them, rather than discovering on their own.

 

In addition to training exercises

Another menu that has written tutorial info with images for assistance.

Once you've done all the training exercises, a new menu will become available "Training manual"

 

This just has some more basic info with some pictures to help out.

Just more explanations of wallrunning, weak spots etc.

 

It could be tied in with gameplay. Once you discover something ingame, it could be added into your manual. Such as Void lasers, secret areas etc.

 

This is turning into another fan concept now...

Anyway, the game needs more tutorials imo, especially with the upcoming PS4 release.

 

I was thinking about this today, and this shouldve been one of the first things they ever addressed. With more and more new players joining, and more on the way with the PS4 released (which was already stated wont force the game to go live), at what point do you pass the point of something like new training and tutorials being useful when the majority of your playerbase is already in the game from it being an "open beta"?

 

When all the basics of a game arent even hammered out, and the influx of new players slows down, who would you really start to include that stuff for? Would it just be scrapped and not cost effective to include it at such a late point of development? And I believe the Lore should go hand in hand with the beginning tutorials. Who are we, what are we doing this for, are we right or wrong, what happened in the past, etc.....  You need to set the stage for a new player, and that just isnt being done here.

[Relkin]

I've actually been thinking a lot regarding the PS4 release and have come to the conclusion that if they don't implement an effective tutorial in time we, the community, should take it upon ourselves to try and stage a community event where we all strip our mods and go to mercury and play terminus missions so we can help new players out.  I think it's important to the games future that this game and its a community present a good first impression to the next wave of new Tenno that join our ranks that week.  Also, as a community we have a certain amount of ownership regarding the game in a way and I think it'd be really cool for us to all work together to welcome the newbies into our ranks :D  

 

If it does come down to this, DE would get a lot of good will with the community if they officially backed the event by giving us all a MK1-Braton and Lato that we can use to help them since a lot of players no longer have those weapons and pretty much everything else outclasses them quite a bit.  The weapons themselves would be useful just for helping the new Tenno but I imagine people would really appreciate the weapon slots. 

[Luminati07]

I've actually been thinking a lot regarding the PS4 release and have come to the conclusion that if they don't implement an effective tutorial in time we, the community, should take it upon ourselves to try and stage a community event where we all strip our mods and go to mercury and play terminus missions so we can help new players out.  I think it's important to the games future that this game and its a community present a good first impression to the next wave of new Tenno that join our ranks that week.  Also, as a community we have a certain amount of ownership regarding the game in a way and I think it'd be really cool for us to all work together to welcome the newbies into our ranks :D  

Haha, I'd actually planned on doing that anyway (assuming it's cross-play)

I did the same when the game went to open beta. I'd just run Terminus and give the new players some tips.

 

I'd do that event (even if it's unofficial), assuming I'm still around at that point.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Nugget_

[Relkin]

Haha, I'd actually planned on doing that anyway (assuming it's cross-play)

I did the same when the game went to open beta. I'd just run Terminus and give the new players some tips.

 

I'd do that event (even if it's unofficia), assuming I'm still around at that point.

That's awesome to hear! :D  Terminus is my I'm sorta bored but still want to play spot atm lol

 

I do hope you stick around though, I think things aren't AS bleak as people like to paint them to be sometimes.  Yes there are legitimate concerns (this thread does a good job of expressing them in an appropriate manner) but I feel like DE is making an effort but is perhaps a bit stretched thin and backed itself into a corner regarding some things which is why they are as they are at the moment.  

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I feel like this is relevant to your edit 15:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/118039-encrypted-drop-tables/

 

Mostly a "discussion" about the new encryption (feel free to pm me to ask to delete it if you feel it's offtopic)

[EvanTheNewbie]

I like the new name. Stops me from frowning.

Edited October 10, 2013 by EvanTheNewbie