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Rewarding Exploration More


Pave
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I'm personally really into this game; it reminds me a lot of good old days with Phantasy Star Online (even if I've only played the Gamecube-version and not that much online). So while waiting for PSO2, this game certainly suffices.

But there's a group of players I'm having trouble with: "Speedrunners". I'll blunt to say that I really don't like these kinds of people, but that's my view on them (single-player and offline-games are okay though. But co-op online non-time-trial-games? Eh...).

Now I can understand people being in hurry. I can understand situations where people want to unlock things faster too. I can partially understand this for "grinders" too.

But frankly speaking, speedrunners hurt this game alot. Or at least people who like exploring and looting items. Speedrunning isn't all that efficient either; it's actually opposite in games like these: You'll get less loot and less experience when you speedrun. not to mention that while exploring, the speerunners constantly keep triggering alarms which either trgiier laser barriers I'm not able to disable (because they don't detroy security cameras around them), or they trigger a mob that instead running into them backtracks a long way for a single looter (I'd day it's a smart move from AI/mob, but still a bit unfair).

In other words, I can't see any reason to speedrun in this game, especially since I haven't ever noticed a time-limit either (at least not so far in my +10-hours of gameplay).

One of the suggestiong I have is give "map exploration" and "extermination"-bonuses for starters. You'd gain bonus credits and exp/affinity the better the completion ("Leave no one standing", as Lotus keeps saying).

Or maybe making the extraction point unsable without specific objectives not done or certain amount of mobs killed could help out too. Just some suggestions.

P.S. So why not play solo/private-mode only then? Simple: Un-meeleable mobs (mainy Heavy/Gunner Grineers and Ancients). And I personally like to help out folks in drop-in system; the more the merrier.

Edited by Pave
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I appreciate the way you play and your want to fix this and I back your ideas 100%. I hope they add some type of incentive to stay back like these bonuses. Perhaps a merit like system where most enemies killed gets a bonus based on his body count, most containers opened gets an equivalant, most melee kills and so on and so forth. I hope they do give us adventerous, exploring, killer types a little more incentive as well. :)

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I agree with you. While I fully understand the "speedrunners" as you call them I've run into the exact situations that you mention. I don't think it's detrimental as such, though. You just need to squad up with players like yourself. Me, for example. :) I tend to explore every part and even though I might regret running into large mobs the satisfaction of excaping by the skin do my teeth and robbing the enemy blind keeps me doing it.

I tend to solo the easier planets. But some of the more difficult ones (beyond Earth?) I prefer to squad up. Not just because of the stunlockers and sticky balls. Some mobs are just too crazy hard for me. Feel free to add me if you like.

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I agree we could certainly use a decent reason to do something other than simply smash everything on our way to the objective/extraction. I enjoy exploring and checking out the maps and hunting for loot, but it really is not very rewarding the way it is now. I don't think speedrunning it bad necessarily, there are good points for it, but it's not my prefered playstyle.

If you need anyone to play with for non-speed runs feel free to add me.

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agreed, I usually enjoy exploring, but I realize it isn't really worth it, especially on extermination missions.

The only thing you can get from canisters and lockers is maybe some mats for crafting.

You can't get any mods/blueprint and you get almost no credits.

They tell you to explore on the load screen for rare mods in the levels, but I have yet to ever actually find anything.

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as of now only mats, credits, and ammo drop from crates lockers

also energy and health orbs from lockers and affinity orbs from crates

so nothing particularly special really, and the ammount of credits isnt the problem, its that credits have little to no value beyond the early game.

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Well, for me the exploring is precisely for those materials. Once you've gotten a few blueprints, the hunt for materials begins. I rather like extermination missions for this purpose. I get to level up my frame/weapons a little bit and have a nice target to meet. After that I can explore and loot in peace without goons appearing around every corner. Sometimes when you don't have time to kill, you want a set number to kill. :P

Edited by Windbow
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right now materials are the only reason to explore, and if you aren't in one of the four planets with an actually valuable resource, then materials becomre irrelevant too.

That's true. It'd be nice to have some kind of rare thing hidden away somewhere outside the normal mission route. Perhaps a mod in a crate. Or, heaven-forbid, an orokin catalyst! But like I said, the best things should be rare. Like a rare treasure.

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I myself would love a myself some Easter eggs. Whether they be messages from the devs hidden in well-hidden/inaccessible areas of tilesets, or even scraps of Lore as left by fallen Grineer/Corpus Historians. Something to further encourage exploration as well as flesh out the reasoning for wallrunning and jumping (Even though they don't need reason. They're just INSANELY fun to do.)

Edited by Azure_Kyte
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Actually, that bonus-rewarding system I mentioned could possibly drop some rare loot too, now that I think of it more after few others have suggested. In comparison, it could be a similiar reward to "S-Rank"-weapons from PSO (blueprints, good loot reward, extra credits, you name it).

Maybe in future this system could be further enhanced with "VIP" and "Subscription-models" too (similiar to what Global Agenda and Dead Frontier have for examples): You'd become a VIP with Founder's Pack or purchasing Platinum (similiar to what Tribes:Ascend did) and then there's resoanable subscription model (say 5$/month).

Point being, if paying for this game made more rewarding & worth the cash, this could make the cash shop even more often used (say like in Dofus, in which paying for almost anything (mainly the subscription itself to play the full game gives you all sorts of in-game benefits (xp-boost, "stamina-candy" pets, random chances for even more swag (some things may have changed since I haven't played that game for couple of years)))).

Edited by Pave
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  • 1 month later...

I think the current mission system is fine, but the match-making system is not.

Speed-running and exploration are both valid styles, so are something in between. Additionally, you have range gunners / bow users vs melee chopfests, as well as players vary in their willingness to pursuit every single enemy they see.

When you have random people all thrown together in a squad, it would be pretty lucky for everyone to cooperate and reach a consensus mission tempo. We are social creatures and usually everyone just stick together.... usually.

Yet, we all know some like to speed run on an open online session (allowing others to join), while others try to salvage anything that is not bolted down. Not to mention there are boss farming groups that just blitz boss missions, and people with 6 maxed warframes + supercharged HEK running missions on Mars

We just need a better match-making system, and people need to communicate.

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REWARDING ANYTHING BUT SPRINTING THROUGH MISSIONS WILL HAVE ME NO LONGER PLAYING THIS GAME.

Seriously though, I'd agree to that. As is, people run through so quickly they close elevators on you and kill you on laser doors.

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I think the current mission system is fine, but the match-making system is not.

Speed-running and exploration are both valid styles, so are something in between. Additionally, you have range gunners / bow users vs melee chopfests, as well as players vary in their willingness to pursuit every single enemy they see.

When you have random people all thrown together in a squad, it would be pretty lucky for everyone to cooperate and reach a consensus mission tempo. We are social creatures and usually everyone just stick together.... usually.

Yet, we all know some like to speed run on an open online session (allowing others to join), while others try to salvage anything that is not bolted down. Not to mention there are boss farming groups that just blitz boss missions, and people with 6 maxed warframes + supercharged HEK running missions on Mars

We just need a better match-making system, and people need to communicate.

Pretty much, that way mat collectors and speed runners can play with similar mind sets. I have everything I want right now, newbies need the mats and when I am in a group that kills I kill too, when I see a bunch of runners, I run. While I do like the idea of rewarding explorers a better matchmaker would definitely help.

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Simple solution.

Online (Open)-Anyone, default setting.

Online (Speedrun)-Only paired with other people in this mode, just for speedrunners. Maybe throw in a time limit.

Online (Explorer)-Same as above, 'cept maybe with a bonus for total extinction or exploration.

I'd like this since my moood varies. Sometimes it's "Oh my god, get this mission OVER!" so I'd click speedrun. Other times, "I want to really sit back and PLAY this game!" so, explore.

Don't know how hard it would be to program, but I'd like to see something like this.

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I actually have yet to see a speed runner. Some people move fast, but I haven't seen anyone deliberately ignore enemies to run to the exit, even when blueprint farming.

I'm guilty there, only cause I suck at firefights and was given a timer until extraction after receiving an artifact.

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Simple solution.

Online (Open)-Anyone, default setting.

Online (Speedrun)-Only paired with other people in this mode, just for speedrunners. Maybe throw in a time limit.

Online (Explorer)-Same as above, 'cept maybe with a bonus for total extinction or exploration.

I'd like this since my moood varies. Sometimes it's "Oh my god, get this mission OVER!" so I'd click speedrun. Other times, "I want to really sit back and PLAY this game!" so, explore.

Don't know how hard it would be to program, but I'd like to see something like this.

I like this idea, especially the timer to make it viable maybe the reward would be similar to raid missions?

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I like to explore a lot, especially if I'm knocked up against infestation. I love it, Nothing in this game gives me as much fun as crawling in a corridor in an area I had absolutly no need to explore and then I get rushed from both ends, an overwelming tide on both sides and then deal with it in dark atmosphere with a flashlight as my main source of light. Of course I agree there should be better rewards though I feel these rewards shouldn't be bonus over other players. Maybe ammo boxes to use in the future, collectibles, pieces of jornals telling of what happened here or there. Things that for explorers are nice but do not give any real advantage over speedrunners.

Now, i'm not saying speedrunning is bad, I pretty much did a bit of it on saturn to farm the ember armor (horrible experience as it was... the waste of hours QQ). I can tell you that I didn't killed a 10th of the enemies there and understandably so, I wanted my armor, I knew that I'd have to do the same mission over and over again possible hundreds of times so the reasoning is, do it as fast as possible to repeat again until you can get what you need since killing more people will not give me any armor pieces.

In the end you have to think of this as what it is, an online game. Everyone has the right to play the game as they please. Some people get their funs playing it like a true assassin, get in, get the kill (job done), get out. Some like to Rambo it out and just exterminate everything that moves and even that which doesn't and shouldn't be touched (Glass windows on ships for hacking XP bonus anyone? XD). Some people like to explore, to find out every little thing the level has to show, they end up killing everything in the process but that may not be the main goal. All of it is pretty valid reasons. In the end you have to talk to people, form groups and play with those who are into your playstyle, much like I do it. Even better with voice chat.

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Simple solution.

Online (Open)-Anyone, default setting.

Online (Speedrun)-Only paired with other people in this mode, just for speedrunners. Maybe throw in a time limit.

Online (Explorer)-Same as above, 'cept maybe with a bonus for total extinction or exploration.

I'd like this since my moood varies. Sometimes it's "Oh my god, get this mission OVER!" so I'd click speedrun. Other times, "I want to really sit back and PLAY this game!" so, explore.

Don't know how hard it would be to program, but I'd like to see something like this.

Speed running exists because there really isnt a good way to keep pacing. This suggestion might work, but if a party was exploring then decided halfway through to just rush the rest of the level, then having different online categories would be pointless. You can't and shouldn't enforce the way players should play the game.

In a similar MMO called Spiral Knights, pacing was controlled by a party button, where every single member of the party had to stand on a giant button to move on or trigger an important ambush. Right now we have double lock doors where only two people have to open the door at the same time. I just think we need to have doors that waits until everyone is at the threshold before opening.

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There are times when running a lot is valid, like after you destroy a reactor and accidentally rig the entire place to blow up in a few minutes. On one occasion, my team barely made it to the extraction point on time, even though we sprinted through all of the mobs. We got a mission fail the first time because I didn't notice the timer and Skype crashed for my partner so he couldn't tell me. xD

I mostly play solo/private so I haven't really experienced a rusher - depending on my mood at the time it might be annoying or gratifying to end a mission early. I have no problems with waiting for people, though, obviously.

I'd love it if they rewarded exploration more. Hidden side rooms, places you need to wallrun to (there's only one that I know of), stuff like that. I wouldn't even mind if some of the better secrets (hidden mod/blueprint, maybe?) took crazy skilled wallrunning to get to. I'd spend hours on maps just exploring stuff if I found more things like that.

Of course, it'd also be nice if the environments were a little more varied. Does anyone know if that's going to be changed, by the way? I assumed most of the rooms were the same through different missions on different planets because the game's still in beta - the gameplay does make up for it a lot, but I'd love if I get more of the awed moments as I did when I first dropped into the game and saw how beautiful everything looked.

Edit: They're releasing more rooms and stuff, I know that - but will it be edited into already existing missions to make them more varied, I mean, as opposed to just putting it into endgame content?

Edited by Quetzhal
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To clarify, it's the "hurting" speedrunners I'm not liking at all (no camera/sensor-kills, triggering mobs and leaving team-mates behind to fend-off themselves, not even bothering to look into rooms they pass through, etc.). In my exprience, it takes "only" max. 10-minutes extra when you explore the whole map and take down all the possible mob that ends up ambushing Tenno (the time varies depending the size and layout of the map, of course; not to mention large amount of the say Corpus-rooms aren't fully used yet (see "always locked doors"-room-pieces)),

It's possible that like with rare-resources, possibly mods could be also looted via containers in future (very likely, considering upgrade drops are highly dependable how many enemies are being spawned during maps at the moment, (I.E. aside alert-buffed missions, Extermination at the moment isn't usually worth the time)).

We're "still" in early phase this part of the gameplay developement however, so I'm personally not too worried yet. I'm speaking of the "socializing"-part of this game, that is.

Edited by Pave
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  • 1 month later...

Bumping this topic, because it's still topical and constains various tid-bits for future.

 

Accolade-system, that rewards more hard-working players more and less working players less, could encourage more working. Of course, to prevent hogging everything, this should be balanced in a fashion that everyone could have a chance to earn equal amount of extras (affinity/exp, credits, materials, mods, etc. rewards in future).

 

Also, a more engaging exp-rewarding-syste, would be really great, and here's probably the best suiting system for this game:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/32941-award-experienceaffinity-according-to-usage-instead-of-last-hit-kills/

 

Couple of quotes:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/31624-upcoming-balance-changes-april-19th/page-6#entry287391

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/31624-upcoming-balance-changes-april-19th/page-6#entry287426

Edited by Pave
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