Why I'm Not Happy When Playing Warframe

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Warframe is a game that has a lot going for it.  It also has a lot of issues that I'm afraid will drive it into the ground.  This game is a game.  It's supposed to be fun.  It's supposed to be enjoyable.  It's supposed to make you happy.  Unfortunately, it hasn't been anything more than escapist for me for a long time.  I've always been the kind of guy that prefers theory-crafting to actual gameplay, but even I am finding I'm spending far more time on the forums compared to in-game time than I have in the past.  I left the game at U7 due to the impossibility of finding Redirection, but eventually returned.  I feel that I'm getting pushed away once more, and it's just for a variety of reasons.

 

1.  Volt is broken.  

Volt has been my favorite since I first saw him and it has nothing to do with my username.  I always thought he looked cool and loved the idea of being a "potent alternative to gunplay."  I've made countless threads proving just how wrong that idea is, so I have no desire to go into it here.  Volt has always been broken though.  Back when I first joined was the time in which Overload made Volt the mighty Zeus, eradicating entire armies in seconds.  That version of Overload compared to the content that existed at the time is the most overpowered thing in the history of the game.  It spawned the "don't nerf me" picture that circulated for months after the nerf.  The thing was, when Overload got nerfed, we saw what Volt really was: a sad, helpless little puppy.  At least though, he wasn't too bad for that age of the game.  Alternative content didn't outdo him too much.

 

Then Frost got added.  I begged and pleaded for nerfs to the new best frame which totally eclipsed my beloved Volt.  I wasn't even all that upset about most of the abilities, just Snow Globe as that made Frost a straight upgrade to Volt.  Things continued to worsen for him as Banshee, Saryn, and Vauban arrived on the scene.  The arrival of Nova and the enemy level bump made me lose almost all hope of a fix.

 

But then there was a glimmer.  We were told he would be looked at and with glee, myself and other Volt mains awaited anxiously for what Scott would do to our beloved frame.  What came out the other end was not what we had hoped for.  An improvement to his abilities, yes, but the underlying problems surrounding armor was not dealt with so his damage was still negligible.  More importantly though, the overall quality of his kit failed to improve at all.  I've written a multi-page exhaustive explanation why Volt is a broken dichotomy that tries to do to many things and in doing so, sucks at pretty much everything.  I've tried reasonable, logical conversation.  But to no avail.  I know ripping Volt apart into two frames is a ton of work, I know.  His abilities aren't too bad at this point (and will significantly improve with Damage 2.0), but his kit is horrid.

 

Volt isn't the potent alternative to gunplay I had hoped for.  His great abilities, Overload and Shield, both got nerfed hard.  Overload needed it, Shield not so much though I can see the reasoning.  Why nerf the only thing sustaining a frame like that is beyond me.

 

I've logged about 120 hours with him IIRC.  I keep playing him, almost feeling sorry for him.  I want to feel like a lightning-casting archwizard.  But he isn't.  He's more of the servant for the apprentice that got to watch the apprentice cast a few bad spells and tried to replicate it without proper training.  I love the idea of Volt.  But he just doesn't measure up to what he could be.

 

2. Balance is horrid.

I'm the kind of guy who wants games to have some semblance of balance.  I'm not saying make everything exactly the same.  I just don't want content of equal or lower level eclipsing upper level content.  The Soma shouldn't be outdoing the Supra.  I also enjoy spreadsheeting and want to professionally do game design.  I've already been on the development team for a couple free games and am currently discussing doing a contract job with an ex-employer about making a game as part of one of their projects.  I'm majoring in CS with specialties in computer graphics and machine intelligence as well as minoring in philosophy and psychology.

 

I like to think I'm an intelligent human being that can see past himself to be unselfish, unbiased, logical, and isn't terrible at the very thing he wants to do with his life.  I know I don't always succeed.  Sometimes on here I get pretty heated and I apologize for that.  Nonetheless, that is what I strive for.  Balance really matters to me.  Numbers matter.  I know there's more to games than numbers though.  I learned that the hard way when I tried to buff a weapon in an FPS I was working on.

 

The gun was clearly underpowered, so I made a mod in which the gun would light the target on fire.  The idea was adored and eventually got integrated into the game.  The problem was, when it got integrated, the userbase of the new version skyrocketed and the true issue was exposed.  This gun did far less than the main primary weapon of the game (which was a rocket launcher) in terms of DPS.  What I failed to account for though was just how good people were at dodging rockets.  The buffed version had a burn mechanic that would always apply the same burn regardless of how far you were from the epicenter of the blast so long as you were in the radius.  Since most players were able to navigate to at least be on the edge of the rocket launcher's radius, this meant that the weapon in the vast majority of cases was far better than anything else in the game.  When I realized just how broken things were, I nerfed it immediately.

 

I know from experience that numbers aren't everything.  There are things you fail to account for when you're making your spreadsheet.  There are qualities that can't be quantified.  DPS, TTK, ammo efficiency, etc are all fantastic stats for determining a baseline though.  Even though numbers aren't everything, they are a great place to start.  They can eliminate a lot of the hassle with things.

 

I've made a gigantic spreadsheet for most of the weapons for Warframe and by looking at the graphs, you can just tell some things are going to be overpowered or underpowered.

 

Things aren't getting fixed in a reasonable time frame.  How long did it take Ignis to get a buff?  Does Scott need some underlings to help him?  Is he being a bit thick-headed about changes?  I'm not trying to insult him.  As he said, he's the filter, so in a way, the state of Warframe is a door into his mind.  A lot of people would be sensitive to that and there's nothing I'd have against him if that was the case.  I wouldn't harbor any ill-will against someone who has poured their heart and soul into something and is now defending it.  He's a human being.  Honestly, I have a good deal of respect for him, but sometimes balance changes seem to come far slower than they ought.

 

3. Damage 2.0

The game needs this.  As bad as balance was before enemy levels got bumped, afterwards, things just got worse.  Anything that didn't deal high armor-ignoring damage got left in the dust.  I recall writing a long post about how much better the Braton Prime was than its competitors at the time of its release.  Now look at it.

 

Armor-ignore has always been "the thing" in warframe.  I made a thread recently in which I started it off by recalling the time of the Furax.

 

Armor breaks warframes by nullifying their damage, breaks weapons, and severely limits the viable options within the game.  Luckily this is on its way and from what the devs gave the design council, I'm really liking the looks of it.  Unfortunately, the knowledge that this is coming has put balance feedback into a state of limbo.  It'll change so much that we don't know what to do.  I know it takes time to do it right and I applaud Steve for being so dedicated to it.  He referred to getting it done once as his "blood oath."  Unfortunately, it's still several weeks away, and I personally doubt it'll be in U11.

 

This is getting fixed, but until then, we must wait and deal with the broken system.  Good luck Steve.

 

4. Anti-hacking crossfire hurts veteran players.

We all know drop tables are now encrypted.  For us veteran players, all that was really left was to grind for a few remaining items from the Void as we await the next major content injection.  The obfuscation of the drop tables without implementing it into the UI at the same time hurt a lot of players.  We are just blindly stabbing the dark at this point.  We have the old drop tables, but they change frequently.

 

We could try to collaborate, but there would be the issue of trolls and the fact that every time it changes (and we'll never know when it does), we'll have to throw out all the old data and start again.  That's a lot of effort and headaches no one wants to go through.

 

Others and myself have tried to make a system that can act as a stopgap before a full-fledged Codex can be added.  Steve said he was willing to consider one.  We're putting one forward.  Hopefully it will be accepted.  If not though, I fear that many long-time players (like myself) will leave the game as we feel somewhat slighted that we have been reduced to blindly hunting or expending excessive effort.

 

5. Continuously Shady Actions

I try to avoid thinking in this way, but the fact is, a lot of the things DE has done don't look right.  I want to believe you guys have your reasons or just had a miscommunication, but it gets harder and harder with time.  I want to believe the Frost Prime Blueprint mess was just a case of someone without the complete story saying the wrong thing on twitch.  I want to believe that there is actually some weirdness with the way your engine works such that obfuscating the drop tables improves security.  I want to believe drop rates aren't money-grubbing.  I want to believe Ced overreacted with his resignation.  I want to believe you have decent reasons for retiring weapons.  I want to believe you didn't stick the Galatine and Soma in as they were as a money grab.  I want to believe all these things and I could continue the list if I wanted to.  Unfortunately, that grows more and more difficult with time.  The list grows longer.  I know some players have turned against you.  I don't want to, but they do have good points...  It's hard not to see their side.

 

Maybe I've just got my head in the sand, refusing to see what's right in front of me, but I hope that those things aren't true.  I really do.  Because if they are, this game is dying.  This game that has so much potential will die too soon a death.  Not because the ideas weren't good, but because those implementing it did so poorly.

 

I've tried asking questions that would air on the livestreams.  I got deflections and half-answers.  I've seen others countless times get the same thing.  I know you guys aren't necessarily allowed to completely speak your mind.  PR and whatnot, fine.  But there have been times where players (and myself a couple times) have honestly asked ourselves "Are they hiding something or do they just play their own game that little?"  We don't see a third option.  We want to.  We want to so very very badly.  We want to find it.

 

That's why I went out of my way to thank Sheldon when he made that release.  It gave a third option, at least on that.  It gave an explanation.  Humans are humans and humans make silly mistakes.  We all do.  Admitting to that whole issue won a lot of respect from me.

 

Basically what it comes down to is that balance is terrible and there are serious issues with the relationship between the devs and the community.  I hope what I said here doesn't violate the "no dev bashing" rule that recently got added.  That wasn't my intent.  I'm honestly just trying to help.  I'm trying to provide feedback that displays my perspective, and I hope I have identified issues that prevent the entertainment of my peers.

 

Thank you for your time reading this.

 

To any devs that see this: I hope you didn't take offense to anything I said.  I didn't mean anything as such.  I'm just trying to explain my perspective and the perspective of others like me.  I know you're human.  I don't expect you to be perfect.  I'm just trying to help.  I hope you realize that...  I've tried to respectfully point out the issues for the entire time I've been here.  I'm trying to help.  I know you guys read the forums, but it often times feels like you read it and think to yourself "that's a good idea" only to stick it on the back burner until you forget about it.  The state of affairs simply makes me sad.  I hope that I've seemed reasonable here and I'm open to discussion.  I'm just trying to help...

 

 

EDIT 1: changed wording on the mention of Ced due to confusion.  I know he wasn't given the boot directly, but he felt his views were dismissed and that the only thing he could do to affect change was resignation.

 

EDIT 2: I'm not looking for everything on a silver platter as was suggested below.  I'm just saying that my favorite frame has been broken for far too long (reasonable), balance changes are taking far too long (reasonable), being stuck in limbo for a month isn't pleasant (reasonable), I don't like blindly going forth without any sort of direction (reasonable), and I don't want to believe the conspiracy theories, but they make more and more sense with time (reasonable).

Edited October 16, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[tactical_surgeon]

Warframe is a game that has a lot going for it.  It also has a lot of issues that I'm afraid will drive it into the ground.  This game is a game.  It's supposed to be fun.  It's supposed to be enjoyable.  It's supposed to make you happy.  Unfortunately, it hasn't been anything more than escapist for me for a long time.  I've always been the kind of guy that prefers theory-crafting to actual gameplay, but even I am finding I'm spending far more time on the forums compared to in-game time than I have in the past.  I left the game at U7 due to the impossibility of finding Redirection, but eventually returned.  I feel that I'm getting pushed away once more, and it's just for a variety of reasons.

 

1.  Volt is broken.  

Volt has been my favorite since I first saw him and it has nothing to do with my username.  I always thought he looked cool and loved the idea of being a "potent alternative to gunplay."  I've made countless threads proving just how wrong that idea is, so I have no desire to go into it here.  Volt has always been broken though.  Back when I first joined was the time in which Overload made Volt the mighty Zeus, eradicating entire armies in seconds.  That version of Overload compared to the content that existed at the time is the most overpowered thing in the history of the game.  It spawned the "don't nerf me" picture that circulated for months after the nerf.  The thing was, when Overload got nerfed, we saw what Volt really was: a sad, helpless little puppy.  At least though, he wasn't too bad for that age of the game.  Alternative content didn't outdo him too much.

 

Then Frost got added.  I begged and pleaded for nerfs to the new best frame which totally eclipsed my beloved Volt.  I wasn't even all that upset about most of the abilities, just Snow Globe as that made Frost a straight upgrade to Volt.  Things continued to worsen for him as Banshee, Saryn, and Vauban arrived on the scene.  The arrival of Nova and the enemy level bump made me lose almost all hope of a fix.

 

But then there was a glimmer.  We were told he would be looked at and with glee, myself and other Volt mains awaited anxiously for what Scott would do to our beloved frame.  What came out the other end was not what we had hoped for.  An improvement to his abilities, yes, but the underlying problems surrounding armor was not dealt with so his damage was still negligible.  More importantly though, the overall quality of his kit failed to improve at all.  I've written a multi-page exhaustive explanation why Volt is a broken dichotomy that tries to do to many things and in doing so, sucks at pretty much everything.  I've tried reasonable, logical conversation.  But to no avail.  I know ripping Volt apart into two frames is a ton of work, I know.  His abilities aren't too bad at this point (and will significantly improve with Damage 2.0), but his kit is horrid.

 

Volt isn't the potent alternative to gunplay I had hoped for.  His great abilities, Overload and Shield, both got nerfed hard.  Overload needed it, Shield not so much though I can see the reasoning.  Why nerf the only thing sustaining a frame like that is beyond me.

 

I've logged about 120 hours with him IIRC.  I keep playing him, almost feeling sorry for him.  I want to feel like a lightning-casting archwizard.  But he isn't.  He's more of the servant for the apprentice that got to watch the apprentice cast a few bad spells and tried to replicate it without proper training.  I love the idea of Volt.  But he just doesn't measure up to what he could be.

 

2. Balance is horrid.

I'm the kind of guy who wants games to have some semblance of balance.  I'm not saying make everything exactly the same.  I just don't want content of equal or lower level eclipsing upper level content.  The Soma shouldn't be outdoing the Supra.  I also enjoy spreadsheeting and want to professionally do game design.  I've already been on the development team for a couple free games and am currently discussing doing a contract job with an ex-employer about making a game as part of one of their projects.  I'm majoring in CS with specialties in computer graphics and machine intelligence as well as minoring in philosophy and psychology.

 

I like to think I'm an intelligent human being that can see past himself to be unselfish, unbiased, logical, and isn't terrible at the very thing he wants to do with his life.  I know I don't always succeed.  Sometimes on here I get pretty heated and I apologize for that.  Nonetheless, that is what I strive for.  Balance really matters to me.  Numbers matter.  I know there's more to games than numbers though.  I learned that the hard way when I tried to buff a weapon in an FPS I was working on.

 

The gun was clearly underpowered, so I made a mod in which the gun would light the target on fire.  The idea was adored and eventually got integrated into the game.  The problem was, when it got integrated, the userbase of the new version skyrocketed and the true issue was exposed.  This gun did far less than the main primary weapon of the game (which was a rocket launcher) in terms of DPS.  What I failed to account for though was just how good people were at dodging rockets.  The buffed version had a burn mechanic that would always apply the same burn regardless of how far you were from the epicenter of the blast so long as you were in the radius.  Since most players were able to navigate to at least be on the edge of the rocket launcher's radius, this meant that the weapon in the vast majority of cases was far better than anything else in the game.  When I realized just how broken things were, I nerfed it immediately.

 

I know from experience that numbers aren't everything.  There are things you fail to account for when you're making your spreadsheet.  There are qualities that can't be quantified.  DPS, TTK, ammo efficiency, etc are all fantastic stats for determining a baseline though.  Even though numbers aren't everything, they are a great place to start.  They can eliminate a lot of the hassle with things.

 

I've made a gigantic spreadsheet for most of the weapons for Warframe and by looking at the graphs, you can just tell some things are going to be overpowered or underpowered.

 

Things aren't getting fixed in a reasonable time frame.  How long did it take Ignis to get a buff?  Does Scott need some underlings to help him?  Is he being a bit thick-headed about changes?  I'm not trying to insult him.  As he said, he's the filter, so in a way, the state of Warframe is a door into his mind.  A lot of people would be sensitive to that and there's nothing I'd have against him if that was the case.  I wouldn't harbor any ill-will against someone who has poured their heart and soul into something and is now defending it.  He's a human being.  Honestly, I have a good deal of respect for him, but sometimes balance changes seem to come far slower than they ought.

 

3. Damage 2.0

The game needs this.  As bad as balance was before enemy levels got bumped, afterwards, things just got worse.  Anything that didn't deal high armor-ignoring damage got left in the dust.  I recall writing a long post about how much better the Braton Prime was than its competitors at the time of its release.  Now look at it.

 

Armor-ignore has always been "the thing" in warframe.  I made a thread recently in which I started it off by recalling the time of the Furax.

 

Armor breaks warframes by nullifying their damage, breaks weapons, and severely limits the viable options within the game.  Luckily this is on its way and from what the devs gave the design council, I'm really liking the looks of it.  Unfortunately, the knowledge that this is coming has put balance feedback into a state of limbo.  It'll change so much that we don't know what to do.  I know it takes time to do it right and I applaud Steve for being so dedicated to it.  He referred to getting it done once as his "blood oath."  Unfortunately, it's still several weeks away, and I personally doubt it'll be in U11.

 

This is getting fixed, but until then, we must wait and deal with the broken system.  Good luck Steve.

 

4. Anti-hacking crossfire hurts veteran players.

We all know drop tables are now encrypted.  For us veteran players, all that was really left was to grind for a few remaining items from the Void as we await the next major content injection.  The obfuscation of the drop tables without implementing it into the UI at the same time hurt a lot of players.  We are just blindly stabbing the dark at this point.  We have the old drop tables, but they change frequently.

 

We could try to collaborate, but there would be the issue of trolls and the fact that every time it changes (and we'll never know when it does), we'll have to throw out all the old data and start again.  That's a lot of effort and headaches no one wants to go through.

 

Others and myself have tried to make a system that can act as a stopgap before a full-fledged Codex can be added.  Steve said he was willing to consider one.  We're putting one forward.  Hopefully it will be accepted.  If not though, I fear that many long-time players (like myself) will leave the game as we feel somewhat slighted that we have been reduced to blindly hunting or expending excessive effort.

 

5. Continuously Shady Actions

I try to avoid thinking in this way, but the fact is, a lot of the things DE has done don't look right.  I want to believe you guys have your reasons or just had a miscommunication, but it gets harder and harder with time.  I want to believe the Frost Prime Blueprint mess was just a miscommunication.  I want to believe that there is actually some weirdness with the way your engine works such that obfuscating the drop tables improves security.  I want to believe drop rates aren't money-grubbing.  I want to believe there was a decent reason for Ced's dismissal.  I want to believe you have decent reasons for retiring weapons.  I want to believe you didn't stick the Galatine and Soma in as they were as a money grab.  I want to believe all these things and I could continue the list if I wanted to.  Unfortunately, that grows more and more difficult with time.  The list grows longer.  I know some players have turned against you.  I don't want to, but they do have good points...  It's hard not to see their side.

 

Maybe I've just got my head in the sand, refusing to see what's right in front of me, but I hope that those things aren't true.  I really do.  Because if they are, this game is dying.  This game that has so much potential will die too soon a death.  Not because the ideas weren't good, but because those implementing it did so poorly.

 

I've tried asking questions that would air on the livestreams.  I got deflections and half-answers.  I've seen others countless times get the same thing.  I know you guys aren't necessarily allowed to completely speak your mind.  PR and whatnot, fine.  But there have been times where players (and myself a couple times) have honestly asked ourselves "Are they hiding something or do they just play their own game that little?"  We don't see a third option.  We want to.  We want to so very very badly.  We want to find it.

 

That's why I went out of my way to thank Sheldon when he made that release.  It gave a third option, at least on that.  It gave an explanation.  Humans are humans and humans make silly mistakes.  We all do.  Admitting to that whole issue won a lot of respect from me.

 

Basically what it comes down to is that balance is terrible and there are serious issues with the relationship between the devs and the community.  I hope what I said here doesn't violate the "no dev bashing" rule that recently got added.  That wasn't my intent.  I'm honestly just trying to help.  I'm trying to provide feedback that displays my perspective, and I hope I have identified issues that prevent the entertainment of my peers.

 

Thank you for your time reading this.

 

To any devs that see this: I hope you didn't take offense to anything I said.  I didn't mean anything as such.  I'm just trying to explain my perspective and the perspective of others like me.  I know you're human.  I don't expect you to be perfect.  I'm just trying to help.  I hope realize that...

all good 

- although stay positive - because it may turn out to be a whole new game ( in a sense ) after armor and damage is changed.  

[Parinirvana]

GG

[Slurmageddon]

Ced wasn't dismissed, he stepped down.

[Dairkrinn]

I do agree, for at least the 3 first points. On Volt, sadly he isn't the only one, but I think that reviewing & balancing frames must come after the damage 2.0. I also think an energy overhaul is needed.

[TunaMayo]

As santaphrax mentioned, Ced stepped down of his own accord.

It's a shame that threads such as this are becoming more and more common. I'd like to know DEs reaction. Do they think we are a bunch of whiners or do they actually play and know their game well enough to agree and do something about it?

Edited October 14, 2013 by TunaMayo

[KingKeif]

First off, awesome thread. Incredibly insightful and knowledgeable. What DE needs to do is gather up a handful of people like you and have a web conference. Some sort of way that players such as yourself can give them true insight into what's wrong with warframe. Because the list goes on, and sadly they just keep adding and not fixing what was broken in the first place.

 

Ced was told something along the lines of being a mod meant he couldn't make suggestions. He decided he'd rather be a normal and make suggestions. Real cool guy, had the privilege to talk to him over messages awhile back. Just a chill dude, living his life as he sees fit.

 

How were Soma and Galatine implemented for money reasons? Buy their blueprints for credit and build them? Though I agree, the Soma retired just about any other primary and the Galatine put every other melee to rest with its 400% charge damage.

Edited October 14, 2013 by KingKeif

[Llyssa]

Volt's speed makes him an alternative to gunplay. You can use speed and a decent melee weapon to clear a room in seconds flat. His direct damage skills are a little too situation dependent for my tastes, but they shine when used right.

 

Your conspiracy theories don't make any sense.

 

In general, you seem to want everything handed to you on a silver platter for some odd reason. Your complaints mainly amount to the idea you're unhappy precisely because they haven't done that. Woe is you, they don't give you everything.

[Kinderghast]

Thanks OP

 

I completely agree that some of the recent decisions seem "shady"

 

I think I used the word slimy in one of my posts earlier.

 

It feels like they keep getting caught doing bad things, and apologising and saying "whoops, my bad"

 

But instead of changing their future behaviour they encrypt all the data so they cannot be caught the same way.

 

Which makes what could be completely innocent and an honest mistake, seem less and less innocent and more and more deliberate

[Tyrian3k]

1.  Volt is broken. 

 

Can't agree more.

His only viable combat ability is his shield, which is either a worse version of Frost's globe or, if used with the Synapse, something that boosts your DPS to the level of a whole group of Acrid users.

 

 

2. Balance is horrid.

 

Same as before: Cannot agree more.

Balance has always been a problem in Warframe, but the problem got worse and worse with each weapon that was added to the game.

Changes never seem to come in time. E.g. the Grakata was "fixed" months after it was released. The problem about that is that nobody gives a **** about the Grakata any more...

Worst example of no changes is the whole longsword issue. They've been crap ever since I started playing the game, which is about 9 months in the past now, yet absolutely nothing changed about them.

 

If a weapon/warframe is released and is reviewed as over or underpowered, it has to be brought back in line ASAP.

If it is underpowered for too long, it will just be ignored forever by the majority of the playerbase.

If it is overpowered for too long, too many players will have grown attached to it and have invested potatoes and formas in it. The problem is that many of those players won't want it to be nerfed.

 

In general I feel like whoever is responsible doesn't think things through all the time, resulting in overpowered monster weapons with barely any downsides like the Soma.

Example: The Soma has high accuracy with the argument that it has only very low damage per shot, but as soon as the Soma is modded, it comes close to the damage per shot levels of a fully rainbow modded Supra before armor is applied to the damage. After armor is applied, the damage per shot is easily higher.

 

 

3. Damage 2.0

 

Easily the thing I've been waiting for the most ever since it was mentioned the first time quite a while back.

The question about it that still bothers me is: Why do enemies in Warframe need scaling armor at all?

All scaling armor does is make damage types that ignore armor more overpowered the higher the enemy's level is.

For all other damage types it is just an increase in effective health. Without armor ignoring, there's no difference between an enemy that has 1,000 health and 90% damage reduction and an enemy with 10,000 and no reduction at all.

I'm really curious to see what they have planned here.

 

 

4. Anti-hacking crossfire hurts veteran players.

 

Something very annoying and also quite sad. In the livestream they said that they want to be open about drop tables and have people know where to get what items and then the next thing I hear about it is that. Now we have to do the RNG lottery completely blind? As if RNG grinding wasn't annoying enough when you still knew where the things drop.

 

 

5. Continuously Shady Actions

 

Clearly the saddest thing of the whole post, but so true that it hurts.

When I started playing Warframe I was really looking forward to where this game will go, but over time that enthusiasm vanished and was steadily replaced with disappointment. Most of the disappointment comes frome the almost non-existent balance in the game, which is getting worse and worse, and things being added to the game that weren't thought through properly.

For example the Derelicts were released before they even served a real purpose apart from being a stepping stone to reach the new Golem. Or even more recent: The corrupted mods. Some of them have negative stats that are greater than the positive one.

If a trade-off mod wants to be viable, its positive stat has to be greater than the same stat on the corresponding non-corrupted mod.

Why would you trade 48% crit chance for 36% fire rate if you can get 150% crit chance without a trade-off attached?

 

 

All in all I can't say that I'm too happy with where Warframe is going... sad but true.

[Jumba255]

I completely agree.

 

Especially with the VOLT and balance points.

After i got to rank 7 i stopped playing for a few months, I come back and now level 40s are whooping my &#! left and right (actually only the Grineer as they spawn massive amounts of AoE troops which prevent shield regeneration and the lack of cover as they spawn behind you as well). BTW VOLT is and always will be my main, no matter how much i try to use overload outside :)

[MEsoJD]

 I really feel post # 5. Your not the first to be bring stuff like this up. Hell even I made a thread when my frustration reached the tipping point, but after all that I get a post from Rebecca (your awesome btw) saying the usual, "I'll relay this to the devs" spiel and a mention on the live stream about the frustrations/concerns of the players. Sadly this didn't go into detail. I will say that I'm happy to see that we finally got better cpu utilization and loadouts. We really need better communication. If the devs (especially the high ups ) read these threads, replying to the highest voted ones every now and than wont take much time (I really want to know their honest thoughts... not pr BS). Lets not forget that the design council is joke (just wanted to mention). Well I hope your thread goes somewhere op and doesn't dissolve in the sea of similar threads.

 

This encryption business doesn't sit well....

[Etsuno]

Volt's speed makes him an alternative to gunplay. You can use speed and a decent melee weapon to clear a room in seconds flat. His direct damage skills are a little too situation dependent for my tastes, but they shine when used right.

 

Your conspiracy theories don't make any sense.

 

In general, you seem to want everything handed to you on a silver platter for some odd reason. Your complaints mainly amount to the idea you're unhappy precisely because they haven't done that. Woe is you, they don't give you everything.

Friend, at the least provide some valid counterpoints as to why the 'conspiracy theories' don't make sense. I see OP's points as rather valid, honestly, though if you could provide evidence to the contrary, that would be most helpful in gaining better insight into the matter.

 

As it stands, if you see that the OP is making baseless assumptions with regards to the intentions of DE, then your last paragraph is what amounts to making baseless assumptions with regards to the intentions of the OP.

 

Everyone has the right to give criticism and feedback, especially if they present that feedback in a very constructive and well-thought out way. The OP is a paying founder and they have a stake in this game. OP is a customer, much alike you and I, and we all have as much a responsibility to convey to DE how we feel about their game, good or bad, as much as they do to hear it and take it into consideration. That's really how businesses should work. If any business were to snidely disregard the feedback of a customer, well, that's just bad business. 

 

Is OP unhappy that the DE has not done what they wanted? Of course. Anyone with complaints and feedback that urges a change is. And that's fine. That's how it works. We can't be forced to be content with everything in this game if we have a good reason not to feel that way. It is not our role to enjoy everything DE gives to us blindly, especially when we have a valid reason, and moreso when we have given DE the time and money to further develop this game in the hopes that it would go far. 

 

The OP, and many of us players in general, just want DE to be honest with us. We want to know for certain if this game is going to be worth playing for a while, and even paying for, should we like. I certainly thought so, and I would like to continue thinking so. If our feedback is disregarded, then we want to know why. From player to company, we want to be absolutely clear, and once we have a perfect understanding, we can decide from there what to do. If they can give us the straight facts and valid reasons, we can decide from there if those reasons are good enough.

[Arlayn]

1. Volt is the James Bond of Warframe the hell are you talking about? Sometimes I have dreams of being Volt and sleeping with all the hot Corpus babes... and then going James Bond on Alad, and Nef in a James Bond movie-esque style... *Cue theme*

 

2. meh it works...

 

3. they are working on it still...

 

4. what.... I your talking about datamining just come out and say it... so I can disagree with you quicker...

 

5. What? Shady? whats shady? They have been honest, and told us all we need to know.. what you want their home addresses next? What on earth is so important they must address it that by not talking about it its considered being shady? If there was a PRESSING question that they must answer I would know of it... and push it myself... apparently there isn't...

 

edit: thanks for making me think of Volt now I need to listen James Bond theme again...

Edited October 14, 2013 by Arlayn

[Tyrian3k]

4. what.... I your talking about datamining just come out and say it... so I can disagree with you quicker...

 

What's bad about the datamining?

[KvotheTheArcane1]

1. Volt is the James Bond of Warframe the hell are you talking about? Sometimes I have dreams of being Volt and sleeping with all the hot Corpus babes... and then going James Bond on Alad, and Nef in a James Bond movie-esque style... *Cue theme*

 

2. meh it works...

 

3. they are working on it still...

 

4. what.... I your talking about datamining just come out and say it... so I can disagree with you quicker...

 

5. What? Shady? whats shady? They have been honest, and told us all we need to know.. what you want their home addresses next? What on earth is so important they must address it that by not talking about it its considered being shady? If there was a PRESSING question that they must answer I would know of it... and push it myself... apparently there isn't...

 

edit: thanks for making me think of Volt now I need to listen James Bond theme again...

1. volt is fairly weak, his damage skills are all reduced by armor, so until armor 2.0 (and maybe after) his power drops off very fast.

 

2. Soma is stronger than the supra, supra being harder to acquire. Galatine is stronger than the prova, prova is again harder to craft (same with dual ichor.) Long swords are all awful weapons (minus kama maybe, and maybe dakra prime, but they're still weak), single daggers are laughable (esp heat dagger), anything that isn't AI in someway quickly becomes useless.

 

4. Datamining has helped the community, end of story. It's provided hard facts for things like "defense gate", the first "voidgate", "formagate", and hopefully will have helped fixed braton prime barrel dropping instead of bronco prime barrel.

 

5. Shady actions, see above, and then encrypting the data, retiring weapons without a giving us a reason (this is iffy to some people I guess). I'm not sure what else volt had said, so I scrolled up and looked:

 

Frost prime BP: Yup, it was changed at the last moment, no warning or announcement about it.

Soma/Galatine: Blows every weapon out of the water, unless you want a mobility weapon like dual ether, fang, or zoren, or an AoE like the ogris.

Encryption: Right after they said they want to be more open and transparent. That doesn't seem shady?

 

As for the "I see no issues, otherwise I'd push them myself," is nonsense, just because you don't see something wrong with X or Y doesn't mean others won't see something wrong with it. You are by no means an authority on what is fine and what is not.

 

What's bad about the datamining?

afaik, he doesn't like it because it's "cheating" or some nonsense which doesn't hold up. Oh, and he likes the "mystery" of farming blindly for things. (From his previous arguments)

Edited October 14, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[notionphil]

Volt, your frustration is genuine and palpable....I think all veteran players go through waves of feeling it, but it's made worse by the fact that you could truly help if your voice was heard.

 

I'd suggest that your points 1,2 and 3 are all the same issue; Balance is horrible. And 3,4 are the same issue ; It feels like DE doesn't respect their players at times.

 

I'd add a 3rd point (third in priority and in order); there is no sustainable metagame (quests, achievements, lore) to keep players interested past mid-game.

 

I hate to repeat the mantra, but let's give armor 2.0 a chance as it could literally rectify your first 3 points. The transparency (I've heard it's been well communicated with DC) on how that issue was handled is at least a positive action which could set a precedent if A2.0 works out, ameliorating some of point 4 going forward.

 

For now, lets stay positive...

Edited October 14, 2013 by notionphil

[Tyrian3k]

afaik, he doesn't like it because it's "cheating" or some nonsense which doesn't hold up. Oh, and he likes the "mystery" of farming blindly for things. (From his previous arguments)

 

Really? I'll have to disappoint him then, because DE has talked about plans to make those "cheats" accessible in-game.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Really? I'll have to disappoint him then, because DE has talked about plans to make those "cheats" accessible in-game.

I think he's fine with that (not sure, Arlayn will have to chime in here), but the problem with that is we don't know the percent of drop rates (so we can't tell is something breaks in the tables).

[Arlayn]

 

 

Frost prime BP: Yup, it was changed at the last moment, no warning or announcement about it.

Soma/Galatine: Blows every weapon out of the water, unless you want a mobility weapon like dual ether, fang, or zoren, or an AoE like the ogris.

Encryption: Right after they said they want to be more open and transparent. That doesn't seem shady?

 

 

good Grief they drop Frost Prime like it was rain... I have tons of his parts littering my inventory... Just about anyone can get him easier then before now...

[KvotheTheArcane1]

good Grief they drop Frost Prime like it was rain... I have tons of his parts littering my inventory... Just about anyone can get him easier then before now...

.... Were you here for the FP debacle? They stated like 6 times he would be exclusive, then released him in the void. That's the debacle with FP in a nutshell.

 

Youtube link where they say it for proof: http://youtu.be/SesYNaURgLw?t=25m

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Volt, your frustration is genuine and palpable....I think all veteran players go through waves of feeling it, but it's made worse by the fact that you could truly help if your voice was heard.

 

I'd suggest that your points 1,2 and 3 are all the same issue; Balance is horrible. And 3,4 are the same issue ; It feels like DE doesn't respect their players at times.

 

I'd add a 3rd point (third in priority and in order); there is no sustainable metagame (quests, achievements, lore) to keep players interested past mid-game.

 

I hate to repeat the mantra, but let's give armor 2.0 a chance as it could literally rectify your first 3 points. The transparency (I've heard it's been well communicated with DC) on how that issue was handled is at least a positive action which could set a precedent if A2.0 works out, ameliorating some of point 4 going forward.

 

For now, lets stay positive...

I know 1,2, and 3 are all under the umbrella of balance and that 4 and 5 are under respect for players.  I'm really looking forward to Damage 2.0.  Unfortunately, it's a long way off.  The picture the DC was given was a screenshot of a super rough draft spreadsheet of the math behind it without any explanation as to what was actually happening in it.  The thing is though, as mentioned by a response, balance changes come so slowly that people get used to the brokenness and move on.  People are accepting mediocrity and it pains me to what it.  Volt is off by himself because he's the frame that every time I see him sitting in my inventory, I feel sad.  I want to play and love playing him, but I can't.  I just can't.  4 was stuck in its own category because it is a very recent event and I really want to bring attention to it.

 

 

1. Volt is the James Bond of Warframe the hell are you talking about? Sometimes I have dreams of being Volt and sleeping with all the hot Corpus babes... and then going James Bond on Alad, and Nef in a James Bond movie-esque style... *Cue theme*

 

2. meh it works...

 

3. they are working on it still...

 

4. what.... I your talking about datamining just come out and say it... so I can disagree with you quicker...

 

5. What? Shady? whats shady? They have been honest, and told us all we need to know.. what you want their home addresses next? What on earth is so important they must address it that by not talking about it its considered being shady? If there was a PRESSING question that they must answer I would know of it... and push it myself... apparently there isn't...

 

edit: thanks for making me think of Volt now I need to listen James Bond theme again...

1. Volt isn't powerful.  I've explained this time and again.  I'll just refer you to https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/77224-breaking-the-dichotomy-of-volt/'>this.  It's one of my longer ones on fixing him.

 

2. No it doesn't.  There are low-tier guns blowing top-tier guns out of the water.  There are frames that are categorically worse than others.  These issues limit viable content which in turns means less variability for us and less profit for DE.

 

3. And they have been for a while.  The fact that it is WIP has stuck the state of balance in the game into limbo.  Every time a balance suggestion is made, "wait for Armor 2.0" comes up.  Balance is getting worse with time.  We need Damage 2.0 and we need it to be done right.  Until that is implemented, the state of balance in the game is so horribly broken that I can't enjoy it.

 

4. Yes I am.  Datamining exposed a lot of issues and gave the community hard evidence when there were problems with the drop tables.  Data mining is what allowed us to finally understand how damage in this game actually works.  Datamining has helped this game immensely.

 

5. What's shady?  They've made statements and gone back on them.  They've made promises that they've contradicted.  They've implemented content that looks like a money grab.  They've made changes that look to some like money-grubbing.  They've silenced people for correcting them.  How are these things not shady?  I want to believe they were justified in their actions, but I still admit that it sure as heck looks bad.

[Destro6677]

OP has most of our concerns down pat.

 

Now it's up to DE to listen or this game will die sooner than we'd all like.

 

More specifically, Scott and Steve need to listen more and/or stop putting us into RNGrindfestland.

[VegetableBasket]

Just imagine how it is for a full-time conspiracy theorist like me... I mean I assume everything is a conspiracy unless there's a better conspiracy to prove otherwise. I love this game, and I'm glad the devs show themselves moreso than in other games I've played, but weird things happen and it just looks like cash grab tactics from where I'm sitting... I don't know why they can't utilize all the artists on the team to work on cosmetic only things and just give the gameplay to us (a la Path of Exile), I'd personally rather spend plat on cosmetics than functional things (as long as there is a way to get the functional thing with time or effort, but if that's not the case, I'll jump on the quitting bandwagon)

I don't know why more people don't do the work Scott does. Is he really the only one who can edit the properties of a weapon to make them not ridiculously good or bad? Can't an intern do something to the embolist to make it a niche, situationally good weapon? Or read the dozens of Volt threads and just go for the best ideas?

Edited October 14, 2013 by VegetableBasket

[rksk16it]

1. Volt is the James Bond of Warframe the hell are you talking about? Sometimes I have dreams of being Volt and sleeping with all the hot Corpus babes... and then going James Bond on Alad, and Nef in a James Bond movie-esque style... *Cue theme*

 

2. meh it works...

 

3. they are working on it still...

 

4. what.... I your talking about datamining just come out and say it... so I can disagree with you quicker...

 

5. What? Shady? whats shady? They have been honest, and told us all we need to know.. what you want their home addresses next? What on earth is so important they must address it that by not talking about it its considered being shady? If there was a PRESSING question that they must answer I would know of it... and push it myself... apparently there isn't...

 

edit: thanks for making me think of Volt now I need to listen James Bond theme again...

 

1. Bring your Volt against my Nova/Saryn/Rhino/Banshee against level 100 opponents in any defense/survival... I'll show how "James Bond" is your good-for-nothing Volt is. Oh wait, maybe you are talking about playing against Corpus on Venus...

 

2. Yea it works on Venus.

 

3. Exactly, they are working on it. I also heard IRL humans _are working_ towards establishing colonies on Moon and Mars.

 

4. Yea I say it : Dataming. Now disagree... ooh scary.

 

5. Yeap, apparently there isnt any question for your excellency to push yourself. Wonder why ? See point #2 above.