A Call For Reform

[Hayden11121]

Now, lately I have stalked the forums, and they have been hell. No, this isn't a "DE WTF" thread, infact, quite the opposite.

 

Lately we have had hell in the forums, through censorship, unnecessary over moderation, and hostile feedback. Both the community and Digital Extremes can be at fault, but it's not the community that is locking these threads, nor is it Digital Extremes that is making everyone hate flip out. *well, kinda, but... you'll see what I mean*

 

Let's talk about our impact on the game... Feedback

 

Feedback in itself is great. But you can do this one of two ways. You can negatively give feedback, both positive and negative, by saying "THIS ROCKS BECAUSE I LIKE IT" or "THIS IS TERRIBLE AND STUPID"

 

Please, give feedback constructively. I myself have over the time done posts like this, and I have to admit that it's idiotic, looking back on it. It makes people more hostile, and makes DE feel bad.

 

However, Digital Extremes cannot exactly handle feedback too well. Volt is still bad, which is a problem. I feel as if communication would clear this issue up, or just... reading the threads wholeheartedly.

 

There was a thread talking about how DE ruined the new bosses by adding a damage cap, and a DE rep asks "What would you do to fix this?"

Well... wouldn't you remove the damage cap? Isn't that what he's complained about? I feel as if I am being given no reason. Being told our threads being locked DOES NOT do anything. At all. We need true communication, I want to hear something more then the standard "Forwarding this to higher ups"

 

Now... with Feedback. DO NOT TAKE THINGS AT FACE VALUE

 

I see this over and over again.

Every week there is one thread that says "How to stop rushing", giving reasons that penalize players for rushing, and making exploring rewarding.

The true meaning of people rushing is because it gets the grind over quicker. So every thread made about rushing are actually referring to "Rushing is the best way to grind" . The difference of those two things are unbelievable. If we listen to those wanting to stop rushing, we get nerfed stamina. If we listen to those who are tired of grinding, we get better core mechanics.

 

Same with Armor 2.0. We get complaints all the time Acrid blah blah is OP. Well, it ignores armor damage, so let's focus on the damage system, and not this weapon in particular. Every day, value needs to be taken from the root.

 

So... To The Community

 

You are making this place hostile. You are angered, and are raging on forums. Is this not true?

 

You need to give feedback in a polite manner, with no attitude showing. Do I want to listen to the guy who sounds obviously mad all the time? *I wonder why no one listens to me* Of course not. Do I want to listen to the guy who has gotten to mastery rank 12 twice and has given feedback in a calm and subtle manner, making complete valid points that are unbiased and backed up with facts from previous times? I mean... why wouldn't you?

 

To The Complainers

 

We need you. We are you. Everyone has complained one way or another. Just do it in a decent manner, I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH.  "DE, you ruined your damn game and don't give any ****s about us" isn't doing anything. Try to complain for more then just complaining. I know, I'm a hypocrite for even saying this.

 

Complaining as a majority keeps DE focused on the issues at hand. Did you know that subtitles were actually put on the "backburner" because no one voiced any need for it. Until a deaf player made a thread saying "I cannot ever hear lotus, she flickers on then cuts off" this didn't get changed.

 

Guys, Digital Extremes is a company, made by PEOPLE. If no one complains about something, it won't get done. So, do your part, voice your complaint, but make it legible, reasonable, and wrapped around facts.

 

To The "Well This Is Worse!"

 

Every. Damn. Time. I see threads constantly about how other F2P games have it worse. Well, there is a reason we aren't playing them. One game's rather obvious flaws doesn't mean another game can go away without changing. Every time I see an excuse resorting to something else such as "Perfect World has endgame gear costing 2,000$, it's ok if Warframe can have 50$ gear" you are doing nothing but trying to tell Digital Extremes that your current rate is fine.

 

To The Arguing Crowd

Going back and forth bickering all day long is doing nothing. I realize you like this idea, and not the other players' ideas, but going back and forth bickering will NOT make someone all of a sudden after pages of hostile writing towards each other go "Hey, I get your point"

 

Stubbornly arguing amongst yourselves does not make DE go

"He makes a good point, let's do it!"

"Wait, he made a better point, let's not"

"Even better point, let's do it again!"

Infact, you do nothing but harm everyone. The thread gets locked, the community starts ignoring your feedback in particular, and you waist your time. Let the game evolve based on the population's reactions, not how quickly you guys can start an argument and get the thread locked.

 

People who argue get threads locked, get people mad there threads are locked, and therefore turns the place vile. There is nothing more to it other then that.

 

To Digital Extremes

I suggest cleaning up threads that reach over a thousand "views" instead of locking. Consider it a rule of thumb. A couple of bad eggs such as the arguing crowd shouldn't ruin the whole carton. People are mad because we are left in the dust.

 

We do NOT need a weekend event, we need work on core values. This same issues goes every time.

 

Tell us what's on the backburner, and what's not. It's not that hard. Grineeer (Scott) made a list of changes Warframes need, and completely forgot to exclude Volt. Things like this should NOT happen. Albeit he did comment 2-3 pages later, which was a GREAT sign of communication.

 

 

Everyone, Please Read This

 

Digital Extremes has done a lot better. 16 evenly acquired mods, seemingly fair mod drops in Survival, better drop rates for a lot of things *Hell, Orokin Cells are the only semi difficult material to acquire anymore*

 

Warframe farming is easier, trade is being implemented, new com mods and community managers have joined the scene on the feedback site, we have Grineeer workshop, Developer's Diary *Coming soon, apparently to hot topics* Hot Topics which do actually focus on what we are talking about, better picked Livestream questions, and overall, a lot is better.

 

Can you take a look at U8 with the weeks and weeks to get a single void key in defense, constant hellfires, and inability to properly farm a mod other then spamming Kappa as a good way?

Digital Extremes has not so much to work with, changes are going to be late, profit needs to come in.

 

The Whole Point Of The Thread (TL;DR)

Both the community and DE is at fault in their own special way.

This thread is a call of reform to both DE and the playerbase, to change your attitude, change how things are presented to us, and change how your soon to be PS4 base will see you.

 

I myself am willing to forgive every fault the moment I see DE starting to go on the right track.

If you think so too, support this thread in any way possible, +1's, comments, or general pieces of info to add on.

This is a call to change the direction we are headed in. Forums are "hell", Moderators are "evil", DE is "stupid" , Playerbase is "Ignorant", Warframe is "grindfame"

 

Can we get out of this funk that we've been in? Only if we post feedback constructively, and if we communicate with developers with no secrets.

 

Thanks everyone for the read.

[alphex]

Why did you have a DE staff picture on the alert list?  IMPOSTOR 

[Letter13]

I applaud this post.

I will smite the first person that "tl;dr"s with a trout. This should be read by everyone. We need to stop the fighting and disrespecting and start working together as a community to try to urge DE to fix the problems in Warframe.

[Gravefire]

I applaud this post.

I will smite the first person that "tl;dr"s with a trout. This should be read by everyone. We need to stop the fighting and disrespecting and start working together as a community to try to urge DE to fix the problems in Warframe.

Kinda hard when you have 2 sides fighting back and forth constantly.

[Kamal965]

While this isn't the stupidest forum I've been to - not by a long shot - it's quickly becoming one of the more hostile ones.

 

Currently, a lot of players are frustrated with the grinding, the lack of lore, the lack of some mechanics, balance issues, armor scaling, etc. Name a topic and you'll find always someone willing to rant and rave about it. Unfortunately, that's simply how most people work: A lot of complaints, and nothing productive to back themselves up with. If they could simply implement some simple rules -- such as constructive criticism only, a proper "tone of voice," etc -- then we can begin to cut down on things.

 

Then, we need DE to be willing to communicate with us. Sure, they've improved. By a lot. However, that doesn't change the fact that there are a plethora of hot threads, all about the same topic/issue that doesn't get a single answer from someone at DE. They really need to clear up some time for communication and responding to feedback. That will also help cut down on raging from the community, as a big berserk button here is that DE doesn't usually answer their feedback.

 

That's all I have off the top of my head for now.

 

Also, Letter, tl;dr! :p

[ScopeWraith]

+1

 

Excellent post. I hope that people actually take the time to read entirely through it.

[Blatantfool]

 Well said.

[fatpig84]

Burn them all.

Edited October 26, 2013 by fatpig84

[Blatantfool]

Kinda hard when you have 2 sides fighting back and forth constantly.

 

 Nah. It can still be done.

[SJunior]

10/10, Would read again.

 

Really though, Was a well written post. Think we could all learn something from it.

[Relkin]

I sort of love you for this post Hayden, I know I'm guilty of being caustic and I'll continue to make an effort to be more tolerant of people.  Your post does a lot to restore my faith that there are sensible people left in this community.

 

One thing you may add though :x  Creating a bunch of duplicate threads is sort of counter productive in that the same things get recycled through each thread and it clogs up forums quite a bit - it'd be swell if we could stop doing that.  

[VegetableBasket]

ITT: Forum user tells forum users not to act like forum users.

No, but seriously, good read. Only thing I would add, is that players should not make assertions unless they either:

A) Check they are right and can prove it, include a source, too.

B) Admit they're not 100% sure.

I get so sick of reading people talking about lore, upcoming content, quotes from devs, etc, when they're just flat out wrong or misinformed. It's okay to speak when you're not totally confident, but don't speak AS IF you're confident if that's the case. There's so much hearsay in this community, it's crazy.

[Alohoe]

I applaud this post.

I will smite the first person that "tl;dr"s with a trout. This should be read by everyone. We need to stop the fighting and disrespecting and start working together as a community to try to urge DE to fix the problems in Warframe.

Q F T

[General_Krull]

THIS ROCKS BECAUSE I LIKE IT!

Edited October 26, 2013 by General_Krull

[Unknown924]

I applaud this post.

I will smite the first person that "tl;dr"s with a trout. This should be read by everyone. We need to stop the fighting and disrespecting and start working together as a community to try to urge DE to fix the problems in Warframe.

I don't think "tl,dr" responses in general are helpful to the forums.  It basically means the person saying it doesn't even care enought to read the first post but they will reply anyway.  A lot of the times people post "tl,dr" and then start telling the thread starter how their idea is wrong based on just reading the thread title.  Almost all of the time the "tl,dr" person's response is not useful and is often something already addressed in the first post(that they didn't read).

 

"tl,dr" is not bad enough that it deserves infraction points, but it would be nice something could be done to reduce it.  Prehaps add a forum rule that any post which can be summed up as "tl,dr" will be deleted if a moderator sees it?  Might be worth talking about that with DE.

.

[Sixty5]

I fully agree here. Since LS16 the place has been a hek of a nicer to be.

 

Unfortunately real feedback is hard to come by, and often gets lost.

 

+1 an I'll probably edit this later for more detail.

 

This also gets a spot on my profile.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Nice post Hayden. Supported and agreed.

Warframe will only progress faster if everyone has a positive/constructive attitude whether it be in our discussion and/or giving feedback.

People have to remember Warframe is simply a video game (a great one at that) that the developers let us play for free. There's no need to for any member of the community to be unnecessarily rude. The developers ARE quite responsive with regards to our feedback, and we all must realize they're reading ideas/suggestions from thousands of people at a time.

[sam6420]

Interesting read and pretty long. I like idea though though.

[Nerokerubina]

Well said Hayden; I think this should be stickied for everyone to read instead of dying slowly.

 

[Gravefire]

 Nah. It can still be done.

How then ? Its the same thing as  Republicans and Democrats both sideswill always be at war with each other.. The Good and The Evil. Without one the other can not exist. Ying and Yang.

[BETAOPTICS]

I think there should be a chat for certain type of players. I, myself am a very local personality and while I try to stay away from arguments after my statement or first few explanations, it is sometimes quite hard to not to continue "arguing" or rather, explaining my thoughts to someone who disagrees but I feel I have done fairly good job on this. That being said, I came into realization that people like myself, who are used to being vocal, we get told that our nature and habits are bad and not desired and there is pretty much nothing some of us can do about it. After all, no one simply changes their nature.

So that is why a chat on the forums would be good, though I think that there is way better solutions to this. I just don't know what.

EDIT: Otherwise there is not much anything I have to say about and even then, there are way more ways to do criticism and I as well as many should try to remember doing the good kind of criticism. For me, this is till a learning progress and I feel it will be so a long time too.

EDIT 2: And your last lines were the best. I can also put everything behind also and I even admitted in a one thread that for a long time, month or so, I am actually enjoying this game, dare I say it, even more than I have at any point prior. It was relieving to hear and see that we mattered and that DE knows how to be awesome when it comes down to it, I think now it is our turn to be awesome for them.

Edited October 26, 2013 by BETAOPTICS

[RahuHordika]

I have to applaud you, Hayden. It's great to see you have moved on from 'Ermagerd rant!' into.... well this.

THIS is a beautiful post and it tackles on the true main problems of the comunity and DE itself without going in biased for any side.

(Seriously, you have no idea how painful was (still is) to see large, complex and higly upvoted posts (with their yes men) that are nothing but glorified 'I R SO MAD ABOUT X' from either side, throwing all the blame to the opposing side)

[SleepingGuy]

Peaceframe.