Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Sentinel + Weapon Mod Restriction


Feam
 Share

Recommended Posts

This might be a "Not another one of these threads" sort of deal, but I have yet to see anyone write, ask, or mention this anywhere, and even though to me it seems like a pretty major thing, it was never part of a Hot Topics or a response from DE (As far as I am aware).

 

So here's the (current) thing that boils my blood:

The mod restriction between your current active weapon and current active sentinel weapon seems to make very little sense.

 

When they first introduced the ability to just keep your mods on any weapon and switch around freely without removing and reapplying them, I was ecstatic.

 

It has been quite a long while since the mods took the form of cards, but only then they started acting like them. When you had a rank 10 serration, you accomplished something and it was yours to use and customize.

It might just be a feature that saves you a few minutes whenever you want to switch, but it felt like so much more.

It turned the cards from "physical" properties that you could only keep on one weapon at a time, to statuses of 'You have THIS freakin' mod, It's yours, use it however you like.'

 

Then, this shows up. This one unnecessary nuisance.

 

What is the expectation behind it? What is the reason for it other than the stubbornness of keeping things the way they used to be while making them more convenient, and twice as unnecessarily complex?

 

Is it just to wave people off from ever using the Sentinel pistol? To actually ask people to get 2x Rank 10 Serrations and increase the "lifespan" (If you call that a life) of the game grind?

 

I am rarely this harsh (But when something seems to have no goal other than to aggravate me, it usually succeeds), so I can expect some equally harsh retorts for this, and I'm here to accept them. 

I want to be explained in the most logical of ways how this unrelated restriction - that keeps the very meaning of our mods stuck between two opposite options - helps this game, or its' players in any way.

 

Can anyone here explain it? Can anyone justify it, or tell me what DE makes of it?

Can we not just have our mod cards be mod cards?

 

 

This post is continued with a list of pros and cons for this request to change the system, in a response to a poster below:

You are solving a problem that doesn't necessarily need to exist, by reducing the choice of a player.

I did the math. I also don't have a key that writes "one million" on my keyboard, and I don't want to press one million buttons, but I can write this: 1,000,000.

So, again, the way I see it: Pure uncompromising logic comes second to game design and actual thought process.

 

It is a game choice and DE is welcome to keep it, but I still think that the alternative (Which is physically possible and easy, to make that clear. Code allows for things to not have physical properties. Your mods don't fall to the bottom of the screen due to gravity, right?) is more beneficial to the actual game.

 

And that's why I'm about to do the math, as you instructed me to.

 

I am not a machine and I don't know everything, so both sides of the list are incomplete (Especially the side I am against, because as a human I am biased towards my own opinion and I put more thought into it rather than into what I disagree with.)

If anyone has anything to add to either lists, reply to this post with your own thoughts and perspective about it.

 

 

Pros of removing the restriction:

  • Simplicity - You have a mod, you use a mod. The mods you created are pure progress that you can keep and use in complete seperation from any other mechanic in the game, rather than having them wired to a minor restriction that requires more coding, more unnecessary consideration and worry, and more grind.

     

    This simplicity also removes the need for something like the "Auto-correct" feature, and makes the mod selection screens independent of eachother without a need to constantly balance your mods between weapons.

     

  • Choice - "Use Sweaper when you have a rifle on the primary slot and a Sentinel Rifle when you have shotgun in the primary. Problem solved."

     

    Why? Removing the restriction gives players the unhindered opportunity to customize their loadout the way they want to, without the additional repetition.

     

  • Repetition - You already have to kill the same boss half a dozen times for achieveing one goal, fuse the same mod a hundred times, and grind the same mission a thousand times. By asking the player to achieve the exact same thing again, you only double these numbers. This isn't a necessity, it is a choice - (That 99.9% of all players will avoid by removing another option from their game. And why? because of the Cons that will be at the bottom.)

     

  • Convenience - This ties to every last point in this list. Seperating the choices of how to mod every single piece of gear in your arsenal simply makes it more convenient, being able to choose your loadout via preference rather than restriction is more convenient, and not doing the exact same thing you already accomplished twice, is convenient.

     

    Many conveniences come with drawbacks, and so do many restrictions. The eventual goal is to find which of those is more important, isn't it?

 

Cons of removing the restriction:

  • Realism - In the real world, you'd only be able to use the one Rank 10 Serration Mod you worked to achieve, on one weapon at a time. Allowing you to place it both on your sentinel and on your weapon in the same session would be inconsistent with the real world.

     

    That is a pretty big con in some regards. Sometimes realism is important, sometimes it is a flaw. There are many things, both related to gameplay and to technicalities, that you can only do in the game, but not in the real world.

    The main reasons you can do those things are Fun and Convenience.

 

 

But, that is really the only helpful quality I see in this "feature" during my playtime and thought process in this game.

 

Everyone has different experiences and preferences in things like this, so if anyone can present another con, or a reason why it might be a bad idea to remove this restriction, please post it here so I can add it to the list / debate it with you.

 

So far, aside from my own perspective, every post on this thread has claimed that Realism is the only reason not to remove this restriction - and also claimed that it is a reason worth more than everything else combined.

 

Realism is a choice in videogames. Having enemies take extra damage from a headshot is a choice, and allowing players to leap forward at 50 km/h by spinning their one handed axes around in the air is a choice. This applies to technicalities, too. Anything that can be coded is within the realm of possibility.

Edited by Feam
Link to comment
Share on other sites

think of it this way if you and a friend have a pistol and you find a laser sight and attach it to your gun but he wants one too at the same time but you cant because you only have the one laser its this principle if you find one mod you cant attach it to two existing guns at the same time within the same mission as this would be a form of duplication the only reason they allow us to place the same mod on all our weapons at the same time is for convenience since you cant take two weapons that use the same mods into a mission at the same time it makes no difference

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You phisically have just one rank 10 Serration.

You can not put it on the Deth Machine Rifle and Grakata at the same time.

Simple as that.

I just can't see that argument anywhere nearly as important as the mechanical burden and complexity that this so called "realistic" restriction brings.

The cons outweigh the pro(s), basically.

 

It would be just as "Simple as that", Simpler than that actually, to remove that restriction and let you mod freely.

 

Real world sense doesn't always apply that well to videogame mechanics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just can't see that argument anywhere nearly as important as the mechanical burden and complexity that this so called "realistic" restriction brings.

The cons outweigh the pro(s), basically.

It would be just as "Simple as that", Simpler than that actually, to remove that restriction and let you mod freely.

Real world sense doesn't always apply that well to videogame mechanics.

You have 1 mod and 2 weapons. Do the math ...... Stop complaining.

I understand that you want to have 2 max rank Serration, but you can't just have that if you only have one.

Do you knwo why that is?! Because if you have only ONE you can't have TWO.

Use Sweaper when you have a rifle on the primary slot and a Sentinel Rifle when you have shotgun in the primary. Problem solved.

Edited by nekrojiji
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to agree that it actually is as simple as that. You should

not be able to have one mod equipped i ntwo weapons that are

used at the same time. That would make no sence what so ever.

 

On a personal note, since the Sentinels always goes AFK on

my ars, I never have the weapon enebled. I do fine without it.

 

Also, the only sentinel I now use is the Carrier, as it atleast

functions somewhat as intended as I´m running around collecting

loot.

 

Besides, if you stick a wepon on your sentinel, it just blows up as it

annoyes enemies it fires upon. And i dont blaim them for doing so.

Hells, I swap mosquitos all the time.

 

Regards,

Stormfinnare

 

Edit: I own the copyright to all my Typos. The grammatical errors and

other mistakes you can distibute and share freely.

Edited by Stormfinnare
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have 1 mod and 2 weapons. Do the math ...... Stop complaining.

I understand that you want to have 2 max rank Serration, but you can't just have that if you only have one.

Do you knwo why that is?! Because if you have only ONE you can't have TWO.

Use Sweaper when you have a rifle on the primary slot and a Sentinel Rifle when you have shotgun in the primary. Problem solved.

You are solving a problem that doesn't necessarily need to exist, by reducing the choice of a player.

I did the math. I also don't have a key that writes "one million" on my keyboard, and I don't want to press one million buttons, but I can write this: 1,000,000.

So, again, the way I see it: Pure uncompromising logic comes second to game design and actual thought process.

 

It is a game choice and DE is welcome to keep it, but I still think that the alternative (Which is physically possible and easy, to make that clear. Code allows for things to not have physical properties. Your mods don't fall to the bottom of the screen due to gravity, right?) is more beneficial to the actual game.

 

And that's why I'm about to do the math, as you instructed me to.

 

I am not a machine and I don't know everything, so both sides of the list are incomplete (Especially the side I am against, because as a human I am biased towards my own opinion and I put more thought into it rather than into what I disagree with.)

If anyone has anything to add to either lists, reply to this post with your own thoughts and perspective about it.

 

 

Pros of removing the restriction:

  • Simplicity - You have a mod, you use a mod. The mods you created are pure progress that you can keep and use in complete seperation from any other mechanic in the game, rather than having them wired to a minor restriction that requires more coding, more unnecessary consideration and worry, and more grind.

     

    This simplicity also removes the need for something like the "Auto-correct" feature, and makes the mod selection screens independent of eachother without a need to constantly balance your mods between weapons.

     

  • Choice"Use Sweaper when you have a rifle on the primary slot and a Sentinel Rifle when you have shotgun in the primary. Problem solved."

     

    Why? Removing the restriction gives players the unhindered opportunity to customize their loadout the way they want to, without the additional repetition.

     

  • Repetition - You already have to kill the same boss half a dozen times for achieveing one goal, fuse the same mod a hundred times, and grind the same mission a thousand times. By asking the player to achieve the exact same thing again, you only double these numbers. This isn't a necessity, it is a choice - (That 99.9% of all players will avoid by removing another option from their game. And why? because of the Cons that will be at the bottom.)

     

  • Convenience - This ties to every last point in this list. Seperating the choices of how to mod every single piece of gear in your arsenal simply makes it more convenient, being able to choose your loadout via preference rather than restriction is more convenient, and not doing the exact same thing you already accomplished twice, is convenient.

     

    Many conveniences come with drawbacks, and so do many restrictions. The eventual goal is to find which of those is more important, isn't it?

 

Cons of removing the restriction:

  • Realism - In the real world, you'd only be able to use the one Rank 10 Serration Mod you worked to achieve, on one weapon at a time. Allowing you to place it both on your sentinel and on your weapon in the same session would be inconsistent with the real world.

     

    That is a pretty big con in some regards. Sometimes realism is important, sometimes it is a flaw. There are many things, both related to gameplay and to technicalities, that you can only do in the game, but not in the real world.

    The main reasons you can do those things are Fun and Convenience.

 

 

But, that is really the only helpful quality I see in this "feature" during my playtime and thought process in this game.

 

Everyone has different experiences and preferences in things like this, so if anyone can present another con, or a reason why it might be a bad idea to remove this restriction, please post it here so I can add it to the list / debate it with you.

 

So far, aside from my own perspective, every post on this thread has claimed that Realism is the only reason not to remove this restriction - and also claimed that it is a reason worth more than everything else combined.

 

Realism is a choice in videogames. Having enemies take extra damage from a headshot is a choice, and allowing players to leap forward at 50 km/h by spinning their one handed axes around in the air is a choice. This applies to technicalities, too.

Anything that can be coded is within the realm of possibility.

Edited by Feam
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only reason it works like this is because DE didn't want to 'screw over' people who spent lots of credits and fusion cores leveling duplicate mods before mod sharing was added. However, now that mod trading has been added in, that reason is completely obsolete as those people can just trade their duplicates for something else.

 

Personally, I don't even bother to equip mods on my sentinel weapons. It is too much of a pain in the &#! to be constantly switching mods around. So I vote that this should be changed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have a problem with this restriction. It makes sense that the mod can't be in two active places at once.

What I would like is for mods equipped on weapons to be hidden from the sentinel screen and vice versa. I can't tell you how many times I've loaded up a sentinel with mods only to find that half of them are shared on my primary weapon. And when I start a new mod build I have to sort through multiple mods to find the one not locked to my sentinel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have a problem with this restriction. It makes sense that the mod can't be in two active places at once.

What I would like is for mods equipped on weapons to be hidden from the sentinel screen and vice versa. I can't tell you how many times I've loaded up a sentinel with mods only to find that half of them are shared on my primary weapon. And when I start a new mod build I have to sort through multiple mods to find the one not locked to my sentinel.

If this restriction is here to stay, then I completely agree with you on this one.

 

Removing the restriction would eliminate all issues, but keeping it requires a way for it to actually fit in.

As it stands, the only bridge that makes  this feature even noted in the game is the Auto-correct function, which is hardly optimal. You can create an entire loadout over several minutes, but the system will just tell you that it is impossible once you are ready to leave the arsenal screen.

 

It might not be best to just hide the currently-used mods, but at least marking them properly to reduce the confusion and hassle would help.

 

Regardless, if this restriction is left as is or even improved in ways, the system will always be more vague and confusing with it than without it.

Edited by Feam
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want Split Chamber or Serration on both your Soma & your Dethrifle, you're going to need two of them.

There's no reason why your mods should be able to be in two active places at once, we're space ninjas, not magicians.

 

Just use a different kind of Primary/Sentary if you don't want to max another set of mods.

Edited by Flackenstien
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want Split Chamber or Serration on both your Soma & your Dethrifle, you're going to need two of them.

There's no reason why your mods should be able to be in two active places at once, we're space ninjas, not magicians.

 

Just use a different kind of Primary/Sentary if you don't want to max another set of mods.

 

Since you didn't say anything that hasn't been stated already, I don't have much to respond with without repeating myself.

 

In that case, I'll just solemnly suggest that we all think about the statement "We're space ninjas, not magicians." for a while.

Space food for Space thought, if you will.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Requiring a separate copy of a mod for your sentinel is not a problem. At least not from a buissness standpoint.

 

What is the problem is that it feels frustrating, because the mods are restricted in an artifficially redundant way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Requiring a separate copy of a mod for your sentinel is not a problem. At least not from a buissness standpoint.

 

What is the problem is that it feels frustrating, because the mods are restricted in an artifficially redundant way.

That sums a lot up pretty nicely.

I should learn to just write 2 lines instead of 200 and let people argue things out without me from now on, it's not like I'm accomplishing anything anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's no reason why your mods should be able to be in two active places at once, we're space ninjas, not magicians.

 

"In addition to being able to equip mods normally, Sentinels now have the ability to create temporary copies of mods that only persist for as long as the original one is nearby."

 

Bam, there is your reason.

 

And before anyone says that it "doesn't fit the universe", Nekros can summon copies of dead enemies and the Corpus have closets that can conjure up entire Moa, among other examples.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I want the mod system to go back to as it

where before, when you had to use seperate mods

on each weapon.

 

That made mods more attractive to hunt down. Now

you only need one mod, (two if you use sentinel) and

I feel it has taken away some of its value.

 

Just my thoughts on it.

 

Regards,

Stormfinnare

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I want the mod system to go back to as it

where before, when you had to use seperate mods

on each weapon.

 

That made mods more attractive to hunt down. Now

you only need one mod, (two if you use sentinel) and

I feel it has taken away some of its value.

 

Just my thoughts on it.

 

Regards,

Stormfinnare

Are you insane?

 

You could just swap mods out before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont know if Im insane. And besides, If I where, I wouldnt

be the one to judge that, right?

 

I liked when you needed multiple mods on your different rifles if

you didnt want to swap all the time. As I said, I personally feel

like that made the mod worth more than now.

 

Just my opinion, and if that makes me insane, so be it.

 

Regards,

Stormfinnare

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I liked when you needed multiple mods on your different rifles if

you didnt want to swap all the time. As I said, I personally feel

like that made the mod worth more than now.

I can understand that, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I don't know how many people are actually interested in the change I am proposing, but I know for a fact that the majority of the community prefers the way the mod system works now rather than the way it did before.

 

Again, it's all a matter of convenience. Even back then, you didn't have to hunt down 7 Rank 10 Serrations to put on your 10 rifles, you just had to move the one you have around every time you switched a weapon.

 

Allowing you to keep Loadouts in your arsenal while using your weapons was purely a change of convenience / ease of use / quality of life.

 

The change I am proposing is slightly different,  as it has impact on other things (The main other thing it has impact on is not having to grind for several months if you really like using both a Rifle and a Sentinel Rifle.)

 

Keeping things attractive to hunt down is one thing. Making an entire playerbase suffer and spend hours of their time managing a broken system, is another.

 

Same goes for this request, only here it is "...Making some of the playerbase suffer and reduce their options / make them spend hours of their time grinding things over and over again, is another."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I should parehaps also point out that I dont actually have

anything against the system as it is now. Its quite easy, and

with the new dmg 2.0 its almost nessesary to be able to

use loadout presetss and so on.

 

If a game is easy to use, and also becomes a little less grindy,

even if the game actually is based pretty much on grinding in

most areas, im all for it.

 

Im not cinvinced that going back to as it where would be a good

idea at all, but I certainly didnt have anything against how it

worked.

 

All in all, I was, when it where actually possible to use one mod

on borth pet rifle and your own at the same time, against it as

it just did not seem right to me, and still doesnt.

 

If the playerbase would make a storm out of this however, and

talk the DEs over to their side so it again where possible,

I could live with it. Its not a game breaking idea after all.

 

Regards,

Stormfinnare

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All in all, I was, when it where actually possible to use one mod

on borth pet rifle and your own at the same time, against it as

it just did not seem right to me, and still doesnt.

 

Oh boy, the hurr durr realism argument again. Since it seems to be the only argument that people who are against this change seem to have, allow me reiterate why the argument makes absolutely no sense.

 

Warframe already has plenty of examples of unrealistic things:

1) Excalibur can somehow shoot out 15 full sized javelins by simply stabbing the ground

2) All of the enemies ships & bases (that they built) have conveniently placed Tenno extraction points in them

3) Rhino can "disrupt time" (actually says that on the mod card) by stomping the ground

4) Mag can magnetically pull enemies in a huge radius without causing any sort of structural damage to the level

5) A weaponized haunch of meat that shoots out beams of electricity at your enemies

6) Etc.

 

Taking that into consideration, I do not see how the Warframe universe could not possibly have some kind of technology that would let me do something as simple as equiping a mod twice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think OP is coming at this with some false presuppositions.This is not a "restriction," but a natural result of the game systems. "Mod" is short for "module," meaning "component." They are physical things, even if the name or description makes it hard to imagine how it might work.

Mods are not like tech levels in strategy games: "Ah, I've discovered how to put serrations on bullets, and now all my weapons will do extra damage." A mod card represents 1 object that you can attach to 1 weapon at a time. The poster comparing them to a laser sight for a gun is spot on. (How melting two of the same thing together makes one stronger remains unclear, but there are always going to be abstract mechanics in games.)

 

This is how they have acted for at least as long as I have been playing the game. It sounds like OP interprets the current system of having your mods stay on weapons when you unequip them for different weapons as those mods being on different weapons at the same time. This is false: what we have now is just a saved loadout, and just as you can save three different mod loadouts for each weapon, these loadouts are saved when you switch weapons. Unequipped weapons have no mods on them. When you select a rifle the mods you had in it last are automatically loaded into it. There is no inherent reason to allow mods to be duplicated for your Sentinel weapon.

 

 This is a design decision, and although of course it would be possible to code the change OP wants, I highly doubt DE would even consider doing so because it would not be consistent with how the mod system works. The argument that the devs could code anything is not a strong one; they could make this game into Katamari Damacy too, but they won't, because that's not the game they want to make.

 

OP, I'm not sure why you find this so irritating. Surely by now you've been playing long enough to understand that:

 

1)This game is about grinding. That's the kind of game it is. Just like World of Warcraft, Diablo, Torchlight, etc.

 

2) Grinding is not about convenience. It IS about repetition. It would be most convenient if you just got weapons and warframes just for completing missions, but that's not going to make DE any money. If playing missions over and over and over again isn't your thing, this game isn't for you.

 

Getting that warning when trying to leave the Arsenal screen is annoying, and I don't trust the auto-resolve to do what I want. The solution to this is to have "Equipped" icons on mods in the Upgrade screen so you know not to use that mod.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...