Upcoming Valkyr Changes

[[DE]Megan]

Take a look at what’s coming for Valkyr!

 

Paralysis (Third Power) - Now only takes 1/3^rd of shields but still calculates damage based on 1/2 shield use.

Hysteria (Fourth Power) - Now has life regain/regeneration as damage is being dealt to enemies.

 

These changes will be coming soon and we are looking forward to your experiences and feedback!  

 

This thread will be unlocked as the update is deployed. Get your testing fingers ready!

[Grilleds]

copying my response to this from another thread:

 

Survivability isn't Valkyr's problem, and that was all that was boosted. Why the heck was the community asking for survivability changes on a frame who has an invincibility skill? Seriously, if you think her low shields and lack of innate health regen was a problem, then maybe you should have tried playing her with a slightly different mod setup. Namely, Continuity, Streamline and Equilibrium (the last being a mod I don't even use on any other frame). 

 

I know the community was requesting damage regen on Hysteria which is why it is being added... But that is almost completely useless considering she is already invulnerable when using the ability, and Equilibrium will usually keep her health at max anyway so long as she keeps grabbing orbs. Her problem was never survivability since keeping Hysteria up made her invulnerable and with a boosted duration you can be in a near permanent state of Hysteria for an entire mission.

 

The buff to Paralysis was even more pointless since the skill clearly is meant to be spammed while under Hysteria, justifying its low damage and low duration stun. All this did was mean that you can now spam it at full power slightly more often.

 

Alright, so I said what isn't her problem, so what is? Damage.

 

Just go into a mission vs level 35+ Grineer and see how long it takes to kill them with Hysteria.  Even Focus doesn't help her kill things as fast as other frames can at higher levels. She can be near permanently invincible, but at higher levels, all that is good for is drawing aggro, staggering enemies with Paralysis, reviving teammates, and occasionally blowing half your energy on Warcry. She simply can't kill things as quick as other frames can at that point, making her kind of a joke in higher level missions.

 

What should have been changed, is either giving Hysteria a flat damage buff, or giving it some sort of scaling. Because as it is, Valkyr in high level missions is just a cool looking frame with flaming hands who tickles enemies and occasionally screams at them. Unlike Survivability , THAT can't be fixed with mods.

 

 

I'm happy you listen to the community when deciding what to buff. I'm unhappy about the buffs the community decided to ask for.

[Carillon]

she's still overly dependent on her ult for survival.

...during which her damage output is poor.

 

I would've prefered the life gain on warcry (+a cost reduction for it. 75 is way too much for such a wimpy buff)

also, she really ought to be able to use her own weapons during hysteria. Angry Furax is so limiting.

[Zedera]

At least she has health regen somewhere, even if it's in the wrong place. Valkyr needs more functionality outside of Hysteria form, otherwise there's just more incentive now to stay in Hysteria. I agree with Carillon, life gain on warcry would probably be better than life gain while invincible. I assume more Hysteria changes are on the way pending melee revamp.

[Keltik0ne]

she's still overly dependent on her ult for survival.

...during which her damage output is poor.

 

I would've prefered the life gain on warcry (+a cost reduction for it. 75 is way too much for such a wimpy buff)

also, she really ought to be able to use her own weapons during hysteria. Angry Furax is so limiting.

Pretty much.

 

Shes still junk at higher levels, wierdly thought out "buffs" tbh, more testing required.

[ValhaHazred]

I still want explosive Hysteria punches...

[AbsolutionZero]

In my eyes, I see Valkyr as a Melee Queen, or at least, she should be. She is the Berserker in Warframe. There is more Defensive than Offensive present in Valkyr and I feel a lack for Melee Support within her skill set. The Melee- Centric Warframe feels like anything but; A Berserker is high risk v. High Reward, hence why she needs to be more Offensive than Defensive.

 

So after more testing, these are changes I feel would be most beneficial to Valkyr.

 

Warcry: The skill is not bad in it's currebt state, but it's not good either. The armor buff feels very weak, it does nothing for the player nor the team; People still seem to go down just as fast with it or without. The attack speed buff is good, the debuff as well, but it feels lacking. Volt's Speed out-performs Valkyr's Warcry, by quite a bit. For these reasons, I do not feel that the 75 energy cost should correspond to this skill.

 

Suggested Changes: 

Move Health Regen to Warcry. Not only would this remove the Hysteria-reliance situation, but the energy cost of 75 would be fitting to this skill in this scenario. 

 

Removal of armor buff and replaced with a Melee Damage Buff. Because the Armor Buff is ineffective and Defensive, this change would influence the player to attack more (to kill or be killed) and it creates a more Offensive feel for Valkyr. This change would also better support the frame's Melee focus.

 

A slight increase to Attack Speed Buff and Debuff to enemies. It is not needed, but this change would be welcomed and helps with Melee's currently wonky system.

 

If these changes came into fruition, the 75 energy cost to Warcry would be justified.

 

Paralysis: This skill CAN be viable if the skill's effects change. The Shield Reduction change from 1/2 to 1/3 didn't really solve any of the skill's current problems. In it's current state, the skill deals abysmal damage, even with Shield Increase mods. The stun is very short and many times has no effect on enemies whatsoever. In addition, the base range for this skill is very small. In close quarters, this skill has no benefit to the player because most times, it does almost nothing to enemies and on top of that, decreases the amount of shields that Valkyr already has very little of. I, personally, like the Shield Drain in combination with lower energy cost, but the skill is not RELIABLE enough to use it much, or at all, in combat.

 

Suggested Changes:

Make the stun a guaranteed Stun to enemies with a decent amount of duration to said Stun. In combat, when a skill that may very well save your life fails, it is very dissapointing and disheartening. Personally, this is what keeps me away from Paralysis and I'm definite that I'm not alone. Even if the skill did stun, the stun duration would have to be long enough for Valkyr to get close for close quarter (or get up from a knockdown) without taking a hefty amount of damage.

 

Increase the base range. The small range of Paralysis is another reason why it fails in practicality. The player needs to get very close in order to use Paralysis. The skill should pave the way for Valkyr to get into close quarters combat, not the other way around. As it stands, Valkyr needs to get into close quarters, taking damage while closing in, just to use Paralysis.

 

Instead of dealing damage, make Paralysis mark enemies. These marked enemies would be more susceptible to Critical Hits and would receive more damage when attacked with a Melee Weapon or Hysteria. This change also encourages Offensive gameplay on Valkyr. Since the damage it currently deals is abysmal, this change would encourage the use of Melee for increased damage potential  and would synergize well with her other skills.

 

To compensate for these changes, it would be ideal to keep the Shield Reduction + Energy Cost system. To be fair, the energy cost can be increased.

 

Hysteria: The skill in it's current state is a huge crutch to Valkyr's potential damage output and weapon efficiency. Not only this, but it is a very limiting power with a cheap way to survive (temp God Mode w/ drawback). Hysteria deals a very small amount of damage; less than a Melee Weapon can deal. It feels wonky, the attack speed is very slow, movement speed is slow as well, and there is very little to no variation to the combo Valkyr can execute while in Hysteria. The skill, in it's entirety, needs to be reworked. As stated by Brimir, the skill needs to focus on enhancing Melee and Weapons, not overriding it.

 

Suggested Changes:

Remove Hysteria's Invincibility and make it have a 70-80% damage reduction instead (keeping the Knowckdown/Disruption resistance). This removes the cheap survival tool that Hysteria proveds and influences players to adjust accordingly to the situation in front of them instead of tanking all the damage. Again, this encourages more Offensive gameplay.

 

Change Hysteria's attack form. Instead of Claw Attacks, allow players to use Melee Weapons with an alternate/more efficient combo attack pattern and possibly allow for gun use. The main issue with Hysteria is it's limiting attack pattern. As it stands now, all weapons are rendered useless during Hysteria (which is being spammed constantly in an effort to survive). This change would relieve the limitation of using only Claw Attacks.

 

Significantly buff damage output on Hysteria. This Ultimate is by far, one of the most poor damage dealers in the game. Utilizing any other weapon, including melee weapons, would allow you to deal more damage than Hysteria can. If the attack form is changed, the damage buff would be received by the Melee Weapon the player would be using for the duration of Hysteria.

 

Move Health Regenration to Warcry. This has already been addressed.

 

Overall Valkyr has a lot of potential to be a great Warframe, but changes need to happen. Hopefully my suggestions will be taken into consideration. There is a desire for this Warframe to become an Offensive Killing Machine and one can only wait in optimism for much needed changes. The day Valkyr becomes a High Risk v. High Reward Warframe, Valkyr players will rejoice.

Edited December 29, 2013 by AbsolutionZero

[Spriggs]

I'd say drop Health regeneration on Hysteria and make it a vampire effect, and put a vampire effect on ripline and Paralyze. The vampire effect can have scaling per rank and heals for a percentage of damage dealt, with a greater chunk of health gained if the ability kills an enemy. Now all that's needed is a damage boost on the abilities in question and it should help lower the reliance on Hysteria.

 

Also, if you're going to go with the health regen or vampire effects on Hysteria, I would say it would probibly be best to give it scaling damage resist instead of invulnerability.

 

Just my opinion anyhow.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Spriggs

[EvanTheNewbie]

All I want in a Valkyr buff is (a lot) more melee range, damage and a speed boost. I am still not satisfied. And shields are still too low to make Paralysis useful.

[Phoenix86]

The buff Valkyr needed was in dmg and mobility, not in surviveability

Life regen while invincible? not needed.

The dmg buff on paralysis is laughable (and i've tried it with Max Redirection + Max Fast Deflection + Max Fortitude + Max Focus + close to Max Blind Rage) no way... it is a little bit more spammable but useless beyond lvl 30+

 

This is my feedback

 

EDIT:

 

What Valkyr needs:

 

- Hysteria: Increased movement speed, Increased melee reach, more dmg in general

- Warcry: remove the armor increase, add dmg/status proc chance increase

- Paralysis: dmg still laughable, add more stun effect and turn it into an utility skill

- Ripline: the only ok skill so far

Edited December 19, 2013 by Phoenix86

[MJ12]

What she needed was for all Warframes to have some method of health recovery that wasn't reliant on ultra-rare mods or powers that you can only occasionally use due to the RNG often deciding to screw you out of energy orbs. That, and a speed boost to Nova or Loki's level, which would make her actually capable of getting into melee range without being shot to bits.

[Gekker]

The Histeria change helps with some build diversity.

 

Before it wasn't possible to play her without Equilibrium. And even that wasn't what I would concider optimal.

I equipped Rejuvenation on top of that so I didn't have to use abilities in order to gain health all the time.

 

The vampire addition to Histeria was long needed and a welcome buff.

 

 

 

But Paralysis's change is not really helping. All it does is make you spam more without the damage dropping so drastically. Is it that what she is supposed to do? Spam Paralysis?

I usually use Paralysis to help me out while I am using Histeria.

When I play against Corpus or Corrupted there is nothing that helps me get rid of drones when I am using Histeria. Paralysis should be the answer. But it is not and the recent change does not change that.

Well, I could hope for my Sentinel to finally target shield drones or use Ripline in the heat of a fight. It just semed to me that Paralysis was invented for just those cases.

 

But lets see maybe when I exchange Equilibirum for Redirection it helps me out to deal more damage with Paralysis. I am glad thats possible now.

[Mak_Gohae]

The changes affected me little since i dont use Hysteria and my current mod build is specifically made for Paralysis. I have max regen and shields so the only difference is that i can now cast one extra Paralysis a bit faster. I really, really want her to be able to cast her two screams on the runs because that would help her tremendously in surviving fights. 

[VentiGlondi]

Valkyr's survivability problem was that despite taking the least damage, it's quite hard to regain health in this game.

So basically Hysteria now works like actual hysteria - get low on health, rampage, heal back.

The damage and movement problems are really worth fixing at the moment considering a new melee system is in the works.

 

Paralysis's biggest problem is still its range. I'd rather trade the damage for longer reach and stun duration.

[Keltik0ne]

More testing carried out, still not impressed.

 

Not sure what they intended on this frame, it has no viability on later enemies at all.

 

Very pretty and pretty useless.

[Brasten]

Health Regen needed to go on Paralysis. Open up some play styles as viable WITHOUT using Hystra as a crutch. Either put the life Regen on 'stunned' targets (stun effect needs to be looked at it doesn't work so well) or as part of the damage blast, or both.

Hysteria issues (reiterated once again): Speed, its very floaty and hard to catch up to fleeing enemies without doing a crouch scoot (sprint tap crouch without a full slide so you don't end up in a slide attack). Parts of the move set (slide attack and ground finish) do virtually no damage for no reason. Fix that.

The only part of that move set that doesn't/shouldn't need a boost is the Ground Slam, which gives knockdown, which leads into Finish (which does need the boosted damage).

Armor, still pointless from the player PoV. Won't matter until you started giving Valkyr the option to build toward 900 armor or 75% damage reduction (Remember Overheat? I bet you just do. Needs to be THAT effective to not be a joke). Her current theoretical max is 76%, that should be up again at that 90% where Overheat capped out using Everything available to boost it. This is something like a BASE armor of 800 to do.

[PokieFishMan]

I love that she can regain health now in Hysteria, I like it, but you only addressed half the problem with Valkyr and I'm sure you'll gather this from the rest of the thread.

 

Warcry

Firstly, this ability is too expensive, it should be in the 50 Tier. Secondly, what should also be done with this ability, is take the health regeneration aspect from Hysteria, and add it to Warcry, and also allow it to apply to teammates when they get melee kills. With Bleed status constantly eating at your team-mates and your own HP, giving your allies an excuse to melee enemies when they have Warcry active would actually make this skill more usable.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Paralysis

Changing the shield cost for this awfully impractical and overly spammed attack was a major cop out. Why it is called Paralysis is still a mystery to me too. You should take the slowing effect from Warcry and put it on this ability instead, buff the range too. That way this ability can be used for crowd control and slowing, and Warcry will allow for extra armour and health regeneration (as suggested above). A much more practical mix.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Hysteria

This ability is still just melee button mashing... What needs to happen, is some elemental and damage inheritance from your existing melee weapon. Add in some variety! The ground slam and finisher move does horribly insignificant damage and there is no charge attack. I was expecting this melee based frame to have some of the sweetest combos and attack styles during Hysteria, but all we got was floating Furax mode.

 

Either have her use the equipped melee weapon during Hysteria with some sweet critical/status/damage buffs, or have it inherit the damage/elements to her claws.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

There are some great ideas with what to do with Valkyr, and like all of the Warframes, she has a lot of potential. We're giving you honest and helpful feedback and ideas. Please make Valkyr a useful and competitive Warframe.

[Pirate_Shark]

I love these changes. You made Valkyr from just good to awesome!

[fro-dog]

hysteria: health regen is near meaningless. with any half-assed duration build you'll be invulnerable 99% of the time anyway. it's not a fix for armor/health tanking being useless and broken. put the health regen on warcry or paralysis if you actually want valkyr to be reliable at melee outside of hysteria. it's still a lame band-aid for a busted system, but it's a start

 

also hysteria's melee weapon is super boring. it's really disappointing to have a melee based warframe and then be railroaded into some bad fist weapon

Edited December 19, 2013 by fro-dog

[Othergrunty]

Giving one of her abilities the effect of recovering health was a good move, since with weak shields she was too dependant on her health, which is too difficult to recover without a Trinity around.

 

However doing so to Hysteria feels like the wrong move. Players are allready depending on it too much and now being the skill to recover her health, means they will even more only us it, in order to stay alive once it has worn off again.

 

The ability is also still having the same old problems of hitting air when you try to strike enemies, suspending you in animation for valuable seconds, consuming stamina on strikes, slowing you down and feeling weak.

 

Paralysis is still suffering from the problem that it's still using shield for it's effect, even with only 1/3rd being consumed, it still makes you give up part of your main defence. Likewise if your shield is allready near depleted, which is most often the case when being in the range to use it, you are not doing any damage, while having to pop in Hysteria afterwards to recover the health you might have lost or to escape.

 

I would suggest actualy giving health recovery to paralysis instead. If your shield is up, it allows for crowd controll, while recovering health you lost in previous encounters. If you are low on shield it allows to at least recover health regardless of how much shield you had left.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Othergrunty

[Otaiken]

I asked for health regen skill so I don't have to permanently stay in Hysteria. So DE puts it on Hysteria. In every feedback topic about Valkyr I said yes to life leech but not on Hysteria, cause I knew DE would be tempted to put it there.

 

Well, exactly that happened, DE is nothing if not predictable. 

 

Put it on Warcry, or even better rework Paralysis into something else. That way I can use my melee weapons and still keep alive and use Hysteria when I feel like it.

 

Also, buff Hysteria's damage output SIGNIFICANTLY and remove the invincibility, add damage reduction/iron skin or some such defensive aspect to it. That way it's not cheap, it's useful and you can chain it with that life leech skill to buff your survivability in Hysteria.

 

Seriously, it's not a rocket science.. I don't know why DE has this thing where every frame has to be so reliant on the 4th skill.

Edited December 19, 2013 by LocoWithGun

[Twitchh13]

I feel that adding health regen to Hysteria is a good first step and I have few ideas of what could change.

 

Ripline- Good the way it is

 

Warcry- Too expensive, probably should cost like 50 instead of 75 and the armor buff could be increased a fair bit so it can not only make Valk alot tougher but actually help out the rest of her team, maybe push it up to 100% or even 150%

 

Paralysis- it could have a 4 second stun to everything in 10m or something like that in addition to its damage.

 

Hysteria- Uses weapon stats and mods

             - Gives a bonus 100% increased crit rating and crit damage on melee attacks

             - Invincibility changed so that she will still take damage as normal except she cannot go below 1% health. This way she can make use of other mods she may have equipped and as she kills  and lessens the threat around her she can slowly heal back up. It also plays along the high risk high reward aspect a bit I think.

[Valiant]

I like the health regen. Calling it 'pointless' is nuts. She needed a way of regaining her hp to compensate for the terrible shields. Having more hp in my opinion also deters me from hitting 4 to save me from death.

It should stay. She should not lose her invulnerability either. She's supposed to be able to go on a rampage without worrying for her well being. Considering the high level damage you eventually receive it allows you to do exactly that. What is needed though is new animations and less screen tints. She definitely needs more claw like attacks. Definitely needs a damage buff so she can actually be useful in higher levels. Her attacks should also gain benefits from your melee weapon. Makes no sense that she doesn't at all, aside from heat weapon overhead aoe's.

[Otaiken]

On higher levels, especially with the increase in damage, the moment the Hysteria runs out you'll lose half your health at minimum (unless you have excellent feeling for the duration and manage to take cover). So what do you do? You activate Hysteria again.. not to mention the damage is still pretty lackluster. You'll spend ages trying to kill Grineer heavies on level 27+ (that is with maxed Focus and Steel Charge btw) and Corpus are even worse. 

 

Well, at least it's mildly effective against infested. 

 

But the inherent problem with Valkyr, that is the need to stay in Hysteria to survive, is sitll very much present.

 

Also, if you play with teammates they will probably kill everything before you get to it, so you can't regenerate health. So you need to delve deeper into enemy mob, then your Hysteria runs out... you get instakilled and your teammates can't even help you because you're too far away. This is pretty common occurence with Valkyr.

Edited December 20, 2013 by LocoWithGun

[Otaiken]

I like the health regen. Calling it 'pointless' is nuts. She needed a way of regaining her hp to compensate for the terrible shields. Having more hp in my opinion also deters me from hitting 4 to save me from death.

It should stay. She should not lose her invulnerability either. She's supposed to be able to go on a rampage without worrying for her well being. Considering the high level damage you eventually receive it allows you to do exactly that. What is needed though is new animations and less screen tints. She definitely needs more claw like attacks. Definitely needs a damage buff so she can actually be useful in higher levels. Her attacks should also gain benefits from your melee weapon. Makes no sense that she doesn't at all, aside from heat weapon overhead aoe's.

 

Berserkers are big risk vs big reward. There is absolutely no risk involved in Hysteria.. so you can't expect the damage to be that great.

 

Now imagine if DE made it so Hysteria is strong enough to kill lvl 40-50 enemies reliably.. combine that with complete invincibility and you have the most OP ability in the entire game. You can have either damage or invulnerability, you can't have both.

Edited December 20, 2013 by LocoWithGun