Farming Bosses, Sargas Ruk And Dig Sites

[Morkislair]

Hi.

            This time I'd like to talk to you about boss lore and farming them, then more specifically about Sargas Ruk, to conclude with a new tile possibility and how it would fit in a 3D map I talked about here 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/140731-some-ideas-about-the-star-map-and-passagethis-mission-type-would-favor-stealth-and-blitzkrieg-tactics/#entry1782125

and there

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/154883-3d-map-and-farming-missions-for-reward/

(I know, it is kinda becoming my pet topic, but there is just so much that can be done in the warframe lore with this kind of map I just cannot let it go. At worst, it makes me work on gd concepts :) )

            We have all been doing the farming boss thing, be it for a weapon, a frame or the hope to get those precious orokin cells. Now, in essence, I have no problem with that. After all, it is only what we've been doing in MMOs and most hack'n'slash over and over again for loot or to complete sets. But Warframe has a lore that would make it sound legit, and the only actual change required in the game would be removing all human bosses from the Corpus. killing one Zanuka after another I can wrapp my brain around, but farm-kill Alad V makes no sense. He could become a rogue corpus, a renegade hiding in the shadows, waiting the right time to strike. That could be the beginning of upcoming events, considering he has called for the infested; he has his ways with them, and could use it again in worse proportions.

            After all, when we slash a corpus robot, it seems logical that the corpus can make another one, hence more boss fights, and the Infested bosses are legion, as are the endless hordes. As for the Grineer, they are clones. So it would seem perfectly logical that once you kill one, another is activated (and that the Grineer don't activate two at the same time because they would battle each other to know who is the "true" one).

            The killing boss thing would then be like slowing them down in whatever they are doing, like killing an Agent in the Matrix universe. Thus, farming them would be a steady effort to slow them as much as possible.

 

            But that wouldn't make much sense if the bosses are not actually doing anything; for now, they are all remaining idle, waiting at the same place (expect for the Stalker and Phorid, off course). I don't know if that is subject to change soon, but the easier to test this on would be Sargas Ruk. What he is doing is right in his lore. He is an artefact hunter.

 

            For this, we would need a new tileset: archeological dig sites. It could reuse the surface tiles, but going underground at some point, and then a blast wall would lead to orokin structure, with various factions battling one another and the Tenno joining the fray in their joyful and merry manner.

            One could put some grineer or corpus like machinery here and there in the orokin structure, to mark their advance inside, but that wouldn't require that much to do. In time, one would work completely original dig sites types, like a remote asteroid with a moored ship digging in to expose the orokin building hidden inside, or it could on far away planetoid of the Kuiper belt, with corpus or grineer barracks next to an old orokin tower left untouched by time.

 

            Again, this would perfectly fit in a 3D map concept. If you're curious about this before reading any further, I strongly encourage you to check out the links at the beginning of the post to know what I'm talking about.

            As the various planets have been occupied by at least one of the three factions, valuable leftover orokin buildings and tech is not likely to be discovered there. But the dig sites could be far away from the planets, deep in the cold void between worlds.

            Dig sites would always be heavily protected, and one would have to undergo at least one mission to learn about their location, be it spy or capture. Basically, those would first work like little events happening in sequences. We would see ennemy fleets closing in the dig site, it would look more real and appealing than the progression bars we have now. The following is just an example on how things could go:

1°) Sargas Ruk's fleet is on the move. Learn where they're going. Spy/capure missions. The Tenno could also be mislead with false information and following wrong coordinates, falling into traps.

2°) Trying to get there before Sargas' Fleet. Sabotage/deception missions.

If it fails and Sargas is here first, getting in the dig site turns into an extermination mission.

3°) When the dig site is clean defence mission to prevent the grineer to enter to enter the structure. It would be a defence variation: the Tenno would have to defend the entrance of the orokin building and prevent the grineer for entering. If it fails, it then becomes an extermination mission inside. Sargas Ruk could randomly show up.

In the meantime, one could undergo extermination missions elsewhere on the surface to prevent the grineer to blast their way in. Could be limited in time.

4°) War on two fronts: one would have to prevent Sargas Ruk to join the field and kill him while he is still aboard his ship. This is where the clone thing comes in handy: it sounds perfectly logical that there are plenty of cloned Sargas ready to be activated, and farming him would be preventing him to leave his ship alive.

            Then, in the Orokin strucure ( which can be or not be derelict), there would be a mobile defence mission for the Lotus to learn what there is to learn about this place, maybe a few to let the Tenno run wild and, to close the event, the Lotus says something like "There is nothing useful left for us inside this place. We'll destroy it to prevent the grineer and corpus to loot its materials. Thank you for your help, Tenno. You have prevented them for letting their hands on orokin technology. For now."

            Then, the location of the dig site would vanish from our maps, and we would have some hate message and death threats from Sargas Ruk.

 

            I don't know what you think, but it could be interesting.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Huitzilopoltchi

[Siubijeni]

One comment, I think canonically the idea is that we don't actually kill the bosses. That's the goal, sure. But as Lotus says, our targets have survived these attacks before. And as the intro cutscene shows, Vor survived being cut in half--being a clone that is no small part mechanically augmented would be quite the advantage in survivability, I think. Some of the corpus ones are harder to justify, but Alad got thrown out the window, for example... did we ever see a body? Who's to say something didn't catch him (another Zanuka? One that can pull or fly?)?

 

Sure, game mechanic-wise, they just kinda keel over. But there really aren't any cutscenes in game, so how else would you do it? Have Alad get thrown out the window every time, even if you killed him with a poison acrid dart? The implementation in the game is fine, I think, even if we didn't actually kill them canonically...

 

As for your idea, I'm not sure I like it. Honestly, I'm not very fond of the map thing, either, because I rather like the system they have going now. It's simplistic and original, and I don't think it needs to be more complicated and 3D-ified. And it doesn't make much sense to me that they have clones of the bosses... they are already clones of clones of clones, but they aren't the same people with the same memories--that's the entire point. If they could do something like that, why wouldn't they clone their best troops all the time and have an army of total bad***es? The excuse that they can't activate more than one at a time doesn't cut it, either--if they can duplicate and transfer memories, they can surely alter them to create distinct 'individuals' amongst the horde. And finally, Sargas specifically as an example... he is very much a cyborg. From Lotus' comments about his artifact smuggling ring and his finances, I'm assuming a very, very, very expensive cyborg. That would make for very expensive duplication for his clones, and also mean he had less to spend on himself, which doesn't seem like something he would do even if it were possible.

[Serialkillerwhale]

Or the humanoid corpus bosses are fakes, mechanical copies with a hologram on top.

[Morkislair]

@Siubijeni: 

Considering the boss killing thing. 

... As much as I can like something I think of, I must admit you're right. With the points you raise, my concept cannot fit in the preexisting lore of Warframe, and what you and Serialkillerwhale say is much more logical and simpler, so let's just drop that part.

 

Ten about the 3d map thing:

I don't think it adds complexity to the map screen, but flexibility and that it makes the process of adding potential new worlds/content easier and that it holds the possibility to add a larger variety of settings/events. The map we have is already in 3D, it's just that we cannot navigate in it. 

 

 

What I have in mind with a 3D map is giving a deeper sense of immersion about where we go and what we do. But it doesn't mean that it should always be in a 3D camera fashion. It's default pose can be the same as it is today, and the view of a particular world can too. It's what's in between that becomes in 3D. 
The Nexus starmap had a column of shortcuts to zoom on any planet/asteroid/moon in the system, the same could be done, as it already exists for alerts and operations. Honestly, I wouldn't be so persistent with this if I hadn't seen it work elsewhere. 

I might be wrong, but I think part of the magic in the Warframe lore is what lurks beyond the worlds, the unknown staring from afar in the darkness. If pulled of right, a 3D map could greatly enhance this sensation, with little complexity added to the actual navigation. A shortcuts tree could do the trick nicely and keep things simple; I don't want something too complex in Warframe too.