Stealth Needs Some Tweaking

[ihd1234567890]

This game would be so much more varied if some stealth updates were added. I have some things that you could start out with, as stealth, to some, may seem too challenging and discouraging to do. So far, this is MOSTLY for the Grineer.

 

1)Butchers, flameblades, and all the melee Grineer weapons shouldn't be alerting the whole room, only people close by can hear. Same goes for Tenno.

 

2) Some sort of alert status bar should be established, where a gunshot (enemies and allies) will make the status bar go high, meaning they will be wary for a period of time, and it will be harder to stealth kill him as they will quickly sweep the area where the gunshot was, whereas a sound with a weapon (enemies and allies) will make nearby enemies go slightly off of their patrol path to investigate that area. A bonus would be that they would notice if a storage container or a locker had been opened.

 

2') Increase Grineer (and Corpus) sight range greatly if the alert bar is inputted. The farther you are (but still in their range) the lower the alert bar will go up, and they will go shorter distances to investigate where they saw you.

 

3) Replicating somewhat human reactions, when enemies first see you (running), they should be caught off-guard if you run at them, stunned just for a moment. Enemies should "start" wildly shooting if they see you running far before you can get to them without raising the alarm. Also they should be stunned if their comrade has been stealth clobbered by a Tenno, which leads to #3'.

 

 

3') If #3 is implemented, a more offensive "Sprint" stealth kill will start if you hold BLOCK while running into an unalerted  or surprised enemy (Even if the enemy is facing you), resulting in more exhilarating stealth sequences, and timed co-op takedowns where your friends can also join in, killing multiple enemies without raising the alarm. Take note though, that you don't have to make it easy. You're going to have to be closer to the enemy when SSKing from the front, and co-op takedowns will be even harder to do, as if someone goes late, the whole room will be alerted by gunshots, investigate, and if they see any of you, they'll start shooting.

 

4) Shadowed areas should make the enemy's sight decrease as it is harder to see in the shadow. 

 

5) Make enemies have better peripheral vision

 

5') when rolling from two covers in an enemy's peripheral vision, they will notice you, and will go a short distance to where you were last seen.

 

BONUS: Stealth kills on stairs, up and down. It's next to impossible to normal attack someone when their farther down the stairs, so fix that. Do a stealth kill for MOAs where you cripple their legs, then smash their head. In one of your trailers, where you introduce Loki, Rhino, and Excalibur all seated in a circle, Loki could stealth kill 2 guys with a dual weapon. So if two enemies are REALLY really close, you can charge and when you get to them, tap, then hold the E key to do a double stealth kill.

 

 

EDIT 2: All melee enemies cannot arouse the whole room. Also, people notice you too fast. Everyone knows your location even though only one person saw you.

 

Grineer/Corpus should see or hear a whistling or clang from ranged and melee weapons, they will be wary, or they'll investigate an arrow, also wary.

 

If a Stealth Mode is implemented in the world map, it will replicate an Exterminate mission. All enemies are high leveled, and can only be killed by assassinations, or any other stealth weapon. I don't really know what to do with stealth people who do charge attacks because that's not exactly a stealth thing, but i want to hear opinions ASAP. This will give chances to lvl people with weak bows or kunai-like weapons against strong odds. 

 

EDIT 3: We need to give other warframes more of a chance for stealth. Don't individually tweak them. Stealth equipment don't always fit with certain Warframes. I will update this suggestion later once I can figure out how you can give other warframes a chance.

 

People need to be rewarded for no detection, 100% non-lethal kills, and/or no alarms raised. It needs to be implemented so you can actually have chances of getting items that going guns blazing, would never get. We need people to actually have not just equipment, but NEW MODS. NEW STEALTH MODS. Not useless mods like Hush. Mods that allow us to do a finisher as an automatic STEALTH kill if the enemy has not detected you in time (alert bars....stealth mode....), or a mod that makes enemies not detect any type of projectile until they go into a certain radius (AI awareness/revamp *cough* *cough* ALERT BA- *COUGH*) or something like that. We need to encourage stealth, to tempt people to get some mod that could help them further in going guns blazing next mission, or tempt because some guy with a Saryn wants to use her as a stealth-oriented frame. We need a Stealth EVENT!

 

EDIT 4: Why do you restrict us to only kill Grineer with stealth kills? Corpus' shields are freaking annoying, and not being able to assassinate MOAs are even more annoying. There is no point to stealth anymore. Stealth is stale, boring, and frustrating. If stealth gets this bad, don't implement this again.

 

*Edit 4 I re-pasted into this comment so I apologize for its whiteness.

 

Edit 5: We could POSSIBLY have an Aura, or a mode that is used sparingly with any Warframe every mission where you can see in a vision similar to things like Focus in Thief or Eagle Vision in Assassins Creed, except this is based on sound. A footstep would send a wave resonating, and anyone touching that ring will hear it and be wary for a excruciatingly short period of time, hence why I am emphasizing that the AI needs peripheral vision, status bars, and ears. The ring should be very small though, and should only be shown on you if you are rolling, jogging, or sprinting. But with the new Leaders implemented, you could do it so Leaders are more sensitive to such movements, and even moving in a crouch will make them perk up a tiny bit.

 

Enemies should also have wave footsteps, so if you have that mod maxed, you can detect the vibrations from the ground (in a game you would just see a wave) and locate it's center, then knowing the enemy is close, or use multiple waves' centers to pinpoint where each enemy is and how you would take them down. This Aura's/Default Warframe ability's range should be greater than that of Enemy Sense since this is based on natural born skills of a space ninja. 

 

Destructible objects like crates or explosive barrels should also make sound, but that doesn't mean that enemies immediately detect where you are, which actually happens with explosive barrels.

 

Edit 6: Thank you DE for allowing players to turn the enemies back into an unalerted state via hacking. It is greatly appreciated, but I have more suggestions. Stealth tilesets should be implemented. Earth is a very good example of what a stealth tileset could be like, but the Jungle tileset is still very linear. If a stealth tileset is implemented, 1st of all it has to have a theme obviously, and I was thinking like Feudal Japan cyberpunk-ish. The whole "center" of the tileset should be in one large area, with multiple pathways on the side for players to walk or jump down from into the center. It should be an exterminate, deception, spy, or assassinate mission. The center should be shaped like a Feudal Japan compound with a wall surrounding it and a square in the middle. Guards should patrol on almost anywhere that you could possibly go to save for secret passage ways.

Edited March 16, 2014 by ihd1234567890

[Archistopheles]

This game would be so much more varied if some stealth updates were added.

 

 

Ya don't say...

[Keiiken]

Been asking for better stealth and smarter enemy AI as opposed to more armor and higher numbers for ages now.

[R3leaZ]

I just read the title and I have to say:

 

STEALTH NEEDS SOME TWEAKING A REVAMP.

 

Lemme go read the post now brb. Ok done. Those fixes would help but I still think a bunch of stuff need to be added related to stealth.

Edited December 31, 2013 by R3leaZ

[Shin]

You are a new player i guess, 

 

We were screaming STEALTH for months..

 

Ninja game without stealth.

[FinnishHim]

Hey I actually really agree you dude, and those are some really good ideas. Maybe regular stealth kills would make no noise but SSKs would produce some noise? And oh my goodness do I agree about an awareness meter and better peripherals. I mean, given they do wear helmets, but sometimes a grineer won't even see me walking on his 2:00. I think some warframe abilities should get stealth purposes too... like Loki's Decoy maybe not causing alarm but rather investigation, or his Radial Disarm to jam alarms. Banshee's Silence is useful but I think there should be more abilities that have duality in their purpose, part combat, part stealth.

And dude if you could please add it to your list, an experience bonus for completing a mission in stealth would be awesome and actually give benefits to using stealth (as of right now, it makes less sense to use stealth from an experience standpoint because by letting alarms be sounding, you're letting more enemies come to fight you, providing more opportunities to get affinity, whereas stealth actually limits your opportunities).

 

I've been hoping for a stealth revamp for a while now but I'm still waiting on the day, and hopefully the changes you suggested will be in place!

-FinnishHim

[Easymac]

pretty much

[Althix]

stealth needs some tweaking? i believe stealth must be made and added to the game first.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Althix

[Shin]

stealth needs some tweaking? i believe stealth must be made and added to the game first.

^This

[bejuizb]

"some"

[ihd1234567890]

You are a new player i guess, 

 

We were screaming STEALTH for months..

 

Ninja game without stealth.

I don't know what you would consider "new player." Obviously I hadn't played in the summer. I started playing I think around mid-September. But I've noticed many cases of people screaming for stealth in quite a few Warframe-related videos.

[ihd1234567890]

I just read the title and I have to say:

 

STEALTH NEEDS SOME TWEAKING A REVAMP.

 

Lemme go read the post now brb. Ok done. Those fixes would help but I still think a bunch of stuff need to be added related to stealth.

I'm sorry if I hadn't posted all the possible ways to improve stealth as a "REVAMP," but this is a work-in-progress, and I'm happy to listen to everyone else's opinions.

[ihd1234567890]

Hey I actually really agree you dude, and those are some really good ideas. Maybe regular stealth kills would make no noise but SSKs would produce some noise? And oh my goodness do I agree about an awareness meter and better peripherals. I mean, given they do wear helmets, but sometimes a grineer won't even see me walking on his 2:00. I think some warframe abilities should get stealth purposes too... like Loki's Decoy maybe not causing alarm but rather investigation, or his Radial Disarm to jam alarms. Banshee's Silence is useful but I think there should be more abilities that have duality in their purpose, part combat, part stealth.

And dude if you could please add it to your list, an experience bonus for completing a mission in stealth would be awesome and actually give benefits to using stealth (as of right now, it makes less sense to use stealth from an experience standpoint because by letting alarms be sounding, you're letting more enemies come to fight you, providing more opportunities to get affinity, whereas stealth actually limits your opportunities).

 

I've been hoping for a stealth revamp for a while now but I'm still waiting on the day, and hopefully the changes you suggested will be in place!

-FinnishHim

I've never thought about stealth bonuses. Personally, if they did add bonuses, they should add multiple bonuses. For example:

 

1) No detection (aka Alarms)

 

2) Never seen (or "perfect stealth")

 

3) No gunshots (allies and enemies except throwing and bow weapons)

 

4) More than 5 stealth kills, more than 10 stealth kills, more than 20 stealth kills. (different stages)

 

You will then be awarded affinity depending on how many achievements your completed after the mission. They're could be bonuses. I REALLY want a Stealth mode map on some planet. It's going to be pretty hard considering it's STEALTH MODE, so I'm thinking those missions are usually for the pros, and people who can master these modes get really big rewards.

[ihd1234567890]

Ya don't say...

In my short experience with the forums, (I don't really use it.) no one has posted a stealth topic from what I've seen. I like stealth (I'm not good at it) and I really want to make this Beta, in its current state, have a wider audience. Stealth are what ninjas are good at right? Couldn't they add a Feudal Japan-esque tileset? Couldn't they improve stealth with the comments I've posted here? This may be a run-and-gun game, but now's the time to go back to the roots before "space ninjas." 

[lautalocos]

well, in the dev workshop, steve said that the next thing is the melee rework. then, it said something about "a movement update" for u12.

 

im guessing after that we getthe stealth update.

[ihd1234567890]

Been asking for better stealth and smarter enemy AI as opposed to more armor and higher numbers for ages now.

Glad to know the same thing as all of us who want stealth.

[ihd1234567890]

well, in the dev workshop, steve said that the next thing is the melee rework. then, it said something about "a movement update" for u12.

 

im guessing after that we getthe stealth update.

Who knows. It depends on if they read this topic or not. When they do (hopefully not right now), this topic should at least have some more suggestions about stealth.

[Shin]

I don't know what you would consider "new player." Obviously I hadn't played in the summer. I started playing I think around mid-September. But I've noticed many cases of people screaming for stealth in quite a few Warframe-related videos.

Hmm maybe since the day one we were screaming stealth. 

 

Its a big undertaking but DE took so long to do it. I mean come on everyone is literally dying for stealth. It can breath a new life into the game. Think about it, new stealth mission types, rules, rewards, hard modes etc.

[ihd1234567890]

Hmm maybe since the day one we were screaming stealth. 

 

Its a big undertaking but DE took so long to do it. I mean come on everyone is literally dying for stealth. It can breath a new life into the game. Think about it, new stealth mission types, rules, rewards, hard modes etc.

I have listed all of that. But I want to hear from any other people like you: What else can we add with the list I already made?

[Boatsniper]

Map design also needs to accommodate stealth, which it currently does not.

[ihd1234567890]

Map design also needs to accommodate stealth, which it currently does not.

For an ideal multi-approached game like Warframe, you're kind of going to have to suck it up. You just gotta work.

[Ekaterinanl]

Warframe, where Stealth kills is neither stealth nor kill and Finisher doesn't finish anything.

[ihd1234567890]

Warframe, where Stealth kills is neither stealth nor kill and Finisher doesn't finish anything.

Don't be THAT harsh with it :) It's better than just run-and-gun all the time.

[SignalWarden]

Don't be THAT harsh with it :) It's better than just run-and-gun all the time.

 

It's not being harsh. It's accurate. On higher levels stealth kills do not kill. Which makes it pointless. Ground finishers are even less effective earlier. 

Also, you mentioned you hadn't seen a stealth thread. THIS IS WHY WE SHOULDN'T HAVE UNSTICKED THE STEALTH THREAD LAST WEEK.

[Keiiken]

For an ideal multi-approached game like Warframe, you're kind of going to have to suck it up. You just gotta work.

 

If you think stealth does not take work you are mistaken. We are merely pointing out that stealth is near useless right now and frames designed for rarely used because of this. When they do show up in non-solo play there is no incentive for the team to play stealth and let those frames take the lead, its all run and gun.