January 3Rd: Community Hot Topics!

[khaykeroth]

AS stalker the harvester is the mini-boss thats why detron bp should be 1 blueprint

[Didsy]

And is PC / PS4 cross play introduction not a hot topic? I feel the PS4 community in particular are in desperate need of it.

[Llyssa]

One big codex thing I'd like to see is interactivity.

 

If enemy X has mod Y, I'd like to be able to click mod Y and see what it does, and what else drops it.

 

Also, I suggested it in passing before, but it would be really nifty if, when weapons(or warframes) can be purchased, there were options to buy the warframe or the BP directly from the codex entry.

 

That way, it'd be less of a moving picture book, and more of an actual catalogue of all there is.

[unrealman1]

I don't understand people yelling around about "Detron,etc" because i know so many ex warframe players what stops playing because we are lack of differnt/    
interesting gamemodes and not because of some horrible drop chance of  some "new" gun.

[IIJetfireII]

The Harvester/Detron

We have heard many suggestions about how we should change the way the Detron is obtained. We know that the three separate Detron blueprints is a reason many players are upset.  Here are some solutions that were suggested by players:

·         Condense the Detron to 1 Blueprint, like the Stalker’s gear.  

·         Put Detron in Clan Research

·         Increase Harvester spawn rates and better Detron drop rate consistency.

·         Put the Barrel/Receiver as possible rewards for Battle Pay

 

Suggestions are being discussed based off of player feedback on this issue.

the suggestions are perfectly suiting in all ways to acquire the detron, well i would only hope to see the most is condensing the detron to 1 bp since many ppl look forward to it ,so am i as well, since it would be reasonably fair enough to obtain the weapon and build it without second thoughts if we have the right resources for it to be crafted in similarity to stalker's weapons.

Edited January 4, 2014 by IIRodimusprimeII

[Caernarvon]

·         Increase Harvester spawn rates and better Detron drop rate consistency.

·         Put the Barrel/Receiver as possible rewards for Battle Pay

Those ideas are garbage and don't fix the current issue.

Only these two:

·         Condense the Detron to 1 Blueprint, like the Stalker’s gear.  

·         Put Detron in Clan Research

Are proper fixes.

 

 

 

 It is an issue that fighting enemies that start at level 25 (some of the most difficult base mission level) only to receive 1500 credit caches/Common Cores as rewards.

Getting credits as reward at all in ODS is already an insult. All those credit caches do is make it harder to get rewards that people actually care about by diluting the reward table. Just remove them.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Caernarvon

[Pendragon1951]

Megan, in regards to the Cicero Event, I have already sent a PM to Rebecca of my experience as a solo player, but what I really saw as a problem was the lack of initial information, such as scores were not additive being one thing. I am also amazed a job that requires a high degree of math that no one noticed initially (before the fix) that there was no way mathematically that a solo player would be able to get 100 points! I also noticed, at least to me, that it didn't seem the level changed between Team and Solo. I did get my 100 finally by going with my son and clan mates, but there are many that are restricted because of the ongoing Stric-Nat problem. Regarding the Detron, to be honest I see no point in getting it at the moment because all that will happen is that DE will realize OMG we released another OP weapon and down comes the nerf hammer. So no I refuse to be disappointed again by the nerf hammer. So those are my two concerns.  

[K_Shiro]

RNG

...

Rebecca has posted further about RNG here:

https://forums.warfr...-6#entry1841362

...

Orokin Derelict Survival rewards

...

 

My post for the topic linked in the op:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/156019-de-its-time-to-stop-relying-on-rng-instead-of-game-design/page-21#entry1864920

 

- -

 

Also for the Codex:

 

Right now though it provides good data (it really does) it makes one thing apparent: it's too good to be only this much.

The scanner has it's issues (like nothing in your hand while scanning or sometimes shooting the enemy instead of scanning since you mess up amidst the chaos :) but overall it's an actually useful thing with it's purpose and a new addition for collectors. (I still don't have the necessary amount of electric crawler samples. :P )

It would be nice to see new challenges during missions including the use of the scanner. Like "do X stealth scan" or "do X scan" etc. Since players do not always bring scanners along (or all their ability mods) it might be better to overhaul the whole challenge system:

- Fix the objectives indicator which appears when you bring up the player panel (right now it shows last message like "Corpus walkers detected" which is hardly objective data), it would be nice if it showed the objective and active challenges.

- Never ask something the player cannot do - so if you don't have your 4th skill in, don't ask for the use of it. Or maybe even allow the player to choose challenges from a randomly assigned pool (like the briefing offers 3 possible choices and you pick one)

- Give reward for completing challenges - and not just 500 xp. Maybe 10 mastery point and a random reward pack or something. Maybe a voucher for a vanity item, like crosshairs or such. You need a 100 or more for an item like that but this would be truly rewarding for those honing their skills to perfection.

 

Challenges could be more demanding like:

- Soldier: 95% of Your kills must come from your primary weapon.

- Pistolero: 95% of Your kills must come from your secondary weapon.

- Blademaster: 95% of Your kills must come from your melee weapon.

- 95% of Your kills must come from Warframe abilities (if you have damaging ones availible).

- Anatomy: 75% of Your kills must come from a vital shot (like headshot or in case of ancients, legshot etc. or spot marked by Banshee).

- Backstabber: 50% of Your kills must be performed from behind (not stealth kills, just from behind).

- Shadow: No alerts (not availible on infested maps).

- Snapshot: Your team must kill 50% of enemies in 5 seconds after visual detection (if they detect you :D so stealth all the way and you are cool!).

- Untouchable: You cannot lose health (this needs the current Bleeding proc to be fixed so maybe your shields must never reach 0? - beware of Distruptors and Nightmare missions :D ).

- Rusher: You must complete the mission under X minutes (normal missions).

- Completionist: You must reach at least X waves (defense)/ Y minutes (survival).

- Economist: Complete survival with only using personal supply drops.

- Wacko: Complete the mission wearing pink shorts.

- Marksman: Have at least 60% accuracy.

- Norris: You must kick/knock at least 50% of enemies to the ground at least once before you kill them.

- Thief: Your team must open 86.3% of the lockers and containers.

- Collector: Scan all enemy types appearing during mission at least once (excluding seeker's grenades, cameras, barrels etc. - can be damn hard actually).

...etc.

 

As usual, more details here:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/79196-concepts-of-mine-consumables-merchant-gambler-and-void-cause-i-like-that/

 

- -

 

Edit:

By the way, it would be nice to get more grineer/chemical clan research. I guess it would be best to change detonite into something else or somehow introduce stuff powered by it - as of now I can only think of exploding stuff and maybe chainsaws, thanks to the fact the detonite... well, sounds like an explosive material. A grineer sentinel would be cool - and hopefully more useful than the Djinn. On a more serious note, Carrier is by far the best sentinel for most missions while Shade is the best combat sentinel because of the occasional invisibility. Also sentinel weapons are nonexistent, only the Sweeper exists now, even Djinn's poison darts feel way weaker.

Edited January 4, 2014 by K_Shiro

[Virtus_Dei_Est]

Dont give away event weapons with little work put into it because then no one is going to bother doing the events.

Which, by the way, already have easy requirement which people STILL complain about even when events are a week long.

The theme here is pretty clear.

 

yeah, you dont read why people is complaining.

 

RNG for prizes does not mean more gameplay / content, is just a lottery, and if the life of warframe is only getting weapons, then DE has a problem.

 

warframe as it is right now could be a bingo game, where the prizes are the weapon parts, and all gameplay is a shooting range where you can try these new weapons...oh wait...

[Brynslustafir]

There really need be more people commenting on this. This is important stuff, and I for one am overjoyed to hear that DE is working on a solution to our Detron RNG woes. 

Here's hoping the Detron just gets consolidated into a single blueprint, no parts, no hassle. Get the Blueprint, build the gun, use the gun, be happy. 

[mandolore]

I agree with others have been saying about the Detron. Since harvester is another stalker type enemy, consolidate his drops to just a blueprint. I understand that the detron is a weapon sought after ever since it was introduced as a possible award in the gardivus event, but having to grind behind a RNG that is iffy most of the time is frustrating. 

[Regar]

It's nice to see how much DE rely on us and how much the players are involved with the evolution of this game (the last contest that's goin on is a piece of a cake for exemple)

 

I love this kind of topics cause they remind me of the brain storming sessions i had while studying graphic design. Everytime we had a new job we also had to face with the most disparate and weird ideas ever before finding the right idea which fitted the job.

So, according to the fact that i just want to put in this topic everything that comes into my mind (crappy ideas as well) don't take too seriosuly my further words, just use em to try watching things from diffrent points of view.

 

First Topic: RNG

i don't exactly know how the warframe RNG works, but after playing for a while i came to the conclusion that applied to "drops" and "drop tables" it resoults as a rough machine, something incomplete from the men's maind, the safety. Yeah, i know, if u stay positive and keep trying u will probably achive something even if u are facing the RNG but tachnically speaking there is no safety for someone to drop a definite item. many other games had the same issue with RNG like "dota" and find out the solution using a Pseudo Random Distribution Process that helps the player a bit everytime he fails to do something related to %

this video is related to the game of dota 2 and it expalins various things that are related to the game but i'm posting it here cause i think that contains valuable informations about a mehcanic that i think would help a lot in a game like warframe.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR7BcWfBCsc 

This mahcanic may help for rewards related to missions, like nightmares, void, boss fights and so on (where frustration bron from the failure gets perpetrated with each mission after the first and that probably takes from 20 to 50mins).

Since RNG and %s are things that don't really concern my knowledge, and according to the fact that i'm new of this topic, i'll just stop here for now, cause i'm not so smart to understand at 100% what i'm talkin about. (still hope it helps a bit)

 

 

Second Topic: The Harvester and the Detron

Well, there are many problems related to detron

1st People don't know how to find the harvester, but there are people that has already found out how to spown the harvester (according to what SilverHunter says in this same topic : "I did over 200 runs and only got a Detron BP. It NEEDS to be changed. ")

2nd Same RGN issues we already took in consideration for the other topic

3rd DE decided that Detron must be something rare to achive (like stalker weapons)

4th People don't like that the detron must be related to the Harvester and found new solution to craft/obtain it. In my opinion it's all about the RNG system but if we want to cosnider the ideas from the community only the last 2 ideas will still follow the DE concept of "rare weapon" and i think that we should accept the challenge instead of avoid that. 

 

Also, as someone else in this topic already said, there are many things that are "hard" to find in warframe, and i think that "rare drops" should follow the same idea that gave birth concepts like "nightmare missions", "void missions", "dragon keys", things that force people to improove their game skills and not something like "dojo research"

 

This things is directly related tot he next topic: Orokin Derelict Survivals (but also other survivals and endless defenses in general)

Somone already said that right now there is no point in carrying a mission after the 35waves or a survival after the 35min cause there is no actual improovement in the drop table , it just repeats itself endessly, the only thing that change is the level of enemies, and then the difficulty in general, so the question is, why should endure myself in an hard and stressing operation when i can actually extract and start again? Well, in my opinion is pretty obvious that u will need to add something for each "x" mark reached, like a rare item (mod, bp, resources) or an henhanced chance to drop the mission rewards (i still don't understand how normal defenses rewards works, but whatever)

 

Last Topic: Codex and Scanner

I left this as last topic cause it appeals more to my creativity xD

First of all (oh no, i started with frist another time, how many time am I goin to start something in this post?) i think that, as other people already said, Codex should meet the wiki and learn from it, cause there are a lot of things that will be nice to see trought the codex while ingame.

I also figured out that if u want to make the scanner/codex more useful, u need to think of something that's not only a bunch of data which can be read in the wiki. Anyway i would like to throw some ideas:

1) Iinformations about the history, Bio and traditions of each faction

2) Achivements and rewards (like badges, weapon reskins or more) from completing "something" in the codex (like "Crawler Huner" I-II and III if u scan all 5 the crawlers 5/10/20times)

3) The possibility to see with the scanner all the informations gathered if zomming on an enemy with it

4) Further dojo researches will requires samples gathered with the scanner

5) Scanner pattern on enemies will change color after completing the required number of scans (it's not much, but i'll appreciate really much)

6) A new dojo room (with the same design of "rank challenges room" created by lotus) in which u can try your weapons and frames against enemies, enmies must be unlocked in the scanner in order to be fought

7) the possibility to unlock new mods which enchanced damage against one particular enemy or his faction (maybe with higer bonuses then the current cleanse bane expel and smite mods)

8) unlocking icons, of enemies, lol

9) creating statues of enemies to use in dojo

10) scanning flora and fauna from planets allow u to create new gardens in the dojo

 

i know, i forced myself to find 10 ideas instead of stopping after the 7th , anyway, it's late (6am) and i need to take a nap, i'll just press the big "post" button and i'll try to edit my grammar and typos mystakes tomorrow u.u

[Duk282]

Also putting my support in for the Detron blueprint being crafted from normal resources -just make it super expensive. 

[lucio1019]

So, what about this idea:

 

We put all rewards into 4 group, common, uncommon, rare and super rare.

When a game is finished/5 minutes/5 waves mark hitted, game will generate a group reward. In the end of game, player can pick from that group of reward. Game will not finish untill the choice is done.

 

For example, I am doing an ODS and lasting for a good 45 minutes. So, 9 rewards are generated. I got 4 common, 3uncommon and 2 rare. In the end of game, when tennos fly away, I get to pick 4 items from common group, of course i can pick one item 4 times, 3 items in uncommon group and 2 items in rare group. Once I finish choosing, I go back to the star map screen.

 

As I stated before, I don't like token system. It makes a game become a "second job". In the end, I play for entertainment, not play for reward. So RNG makes up the surprise part but too much RNG is just terrible.

 

BTW, I know it will be a lot of coding, but it will save a lot of time in long run. As it will be easier to add items into group than add item into a RNG generater.

Edited January 5, 2014 by lucio1019

[VKhaun]

Sorry, but I love the Detron implementation. The game is not meant to be 1,000 item buffet where you just pick whatever you want. People would just eat their three favorite things and leave. We need mechanics like the Harvester and difficult missions like Survival dropping parts at long intervals.

 

You want them to require fewer random encounters, like Harvester is only needed for one part or drops a BP like Megan said? Okay, sure, reasonable and constructive... but once some of these threads about RNG get going people's true colors come out. They want what they want and they want it NOW.

 

I want a game with more than just a list of BP's. I want long term projects, goals, opportunities that show up in dynamic events, etc. I want to be interested in what's going on in the game and planning what I play, not just go there to get this, and go there to get that. The Harvester is a huge step in the right direction, making people think about when and how they side with factions which in turn makes paying attention to invasions matter more.

Edited January 5, 2014 by VKhaun

[Keetsune]

Also putting my support in for the Detron blueprint being crafted from normal resources -just make it super expensive. 

Here my suggestion for super expensive way ;D https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/158534-my-2-cents-in-detron-hunting/

Edited January 5, 2014 by Keetsune

[ThePododo]

Cicero Crisis is over! Will I get a badge? I only ever got to 50% :(

[Duk282]

There really need be more people commenting on this. This is important stuff, and I for one am overjoyed to hear that DE is working on a solution to our Detron RNG woes. 

Here's hoping the Detron just gets consolidated into a single blueprint, no parts, no hassle. Get the Blueprint, build the gun, use the gun, be happy. 

 

I second this. 

[Paprika]

Steve hinted at movement system changes? What do you all have planned for us?

 

Movement's a touchy issue with forumers as the speed nerfs implemented awhile ago, some feel, need to be reversed. Although it'd be reasonable to make a Loki more mobile than a Frost, making Frost and Rhino as slow as they are at present changed the "feel" of the game. While it might not seem like a big deal, it is. People that were here before the nerfs can back me up on this.

 

If it's necessary to make one frame more agile than the other, shift the differences over to stamina bars and parkour. 

[Brynslustafir]

Cicero Crisis is over! Will I get a badge? I only ever got to 50% :(

What are you talking about? The Cicero Crisis doesn't end until around noon tomorrow. 

[radthezero]

I think elevating the spanw rate would resolve it. For the Harvester, I mean.

[XenosInfinity]

My opinion on the Detron debate:

 

I will use ANY QUANTITY OF RESOURCES to build this thing if you make it a blueprint constructible through regular materials. I literally don't care how long it takes. I wanted to side with the Corpus during Gradivus but the balance was so far in the Grineer's favour when I started that I didn't have a choice if I wanted a decent reward. I cannot get the Harvester to even show up a the moment.

Please? >.>

[Taranis49]

RNG

Further, with implementations like the Stalker and the Harvester the goal is to clearly indicate some of the rarest items in the game. Making items more difficult to obtain will make them more meaningful to acquire. 

 

I've said this in the past on similar topics, but the over-reliance on RNG means that words like "difficult" and "easy" don't even enter into the equation. Difficult implies something requiring work or skill, not simply luck.

 

Additionally, statements like this kinda undermine the notion that this is still a beta, for the simple reason that testers can't evaluate content they can't access.

[Kaian-a-coel]

Harder =/= Lower chance to drop.

[knoth]

RNG

Issues with RNG in relation to several game mechanics in Warframe have created a lot of valid discussion on what things should be reviewed. With the introduction of the Harvester came excitement followed by anger about releasing the Detron in a way that was not aligned with the recognition of frustration of reliance on RNG.  The Detron in three parts on top of a spawn system that is not 100% understood sparked a lot of discussion. Most players have yet to discover how to spawn the Harvester, let alone obtain the Detron. In the past, we have given players an easier-way to obtain certain weapons. Some weapons in the market are XP locked, indicating a tiering system. Further, with implementations like the Stalker and the Harvester the goal is to clearly indicate some of the rarest items in the game. Making items more difficult to obtain will make them more meaningful to acquire. 

 

However, with all that being said, RNG is an important issue.  Veteran players might have every mod they need to create the builds they want, while new players have a difficult time getting what they want because of RNG. New player experience in relation to RNG is an issue that we are looking at. For a lot of players that have everything in the game, the Detron is the only “new” thing to go after, but many veteran players are frustrated with the RNG tied to obtaining this.

 

 

 

I'd just like to chime in here and mention that even players with over a thousand hours in the game, and those in the top 1000*  do NOT have the mods they would like to create the builds they want. They must resort to trading, purchasing, or doing without. This is not a minority case, before trading each of us had to specialise in the mods that we had. Our specialities were tied to RNG as much as anyone else.

 

RNG is a major factor in this game, even with players who have far and beyond the mods, assets, and time to play as that of the median.

 

* Meaning they are conservatively in... 1000/2,000,000 = the top 0.05% of the playerbase with most mods** seen)

** Mod drops are very roughly correlating to the amount of enemies killed, several factors notwithstanding.

 

Edit: Formatting Unclear

Edited January 5, 2014 by knoth