Azamagon's Warframe Rebalancing - Excalibur

[Azamagon]

This is the second thread from my new series of Warframe rebalancing threads. Loki was first, now this one is about Excalibur. I have already done rebalancing for each Warframe (wether it is up to date or still in my head :P), most of it written down in here: https://forums.warfr...second-edition/

 

However, as huge and thorough threads like that often gets ignored, I thought of posting each one individually so they (hopefully) get seen. So, now it's time for Excalibur:

 

Stats:

Has good wellrounded stats, as they should be. However, compared to most other Warframes, he in total has a lesser statdistribution than them. If he would receive a boost in his stats, I'd maybe increase his speed to 1,1 or so.

 

Overall theme:

In short: Swordsman with a blade/light-energy-creation theme. I think he has a rather nice theme going for him: Rather simple to use and powerful as a newbie-frame, but which I think still SHOULD have better uses in higher end gameplay. I think with a focus on melee capabilities, using the powers to create a special form of light (most often projected as deadly blades), his name and theme would go tremendously well together! Neat stuff.

 

Abilities:

Excalibur has quite nice abilities, with high emphasis on mobility. However, while his abilities are nice, they are lacking a bit and are not quite up to date when compared to other Warframes' abilities, as most of them are suffering from a slight lack of utility. On top of that, he feels a bit too much like some form of scout, rather than as a swordsman. Thus, I have also tried to emphasize his swordsman-theme a bit more in his abilities.

Let's see what I have had in mind!

 

- Slash Dash -

This is one of his more solid abilities. Only some minor adjustments for this ability:

* Whenever an enemy is hit by this ability, it should ALWAYS be staggered.

* Each enemy hit by this ability provides +1 for Excalibur's melee combo counter.

* This ability's damage scales with your melee combo counter! (Similar to Ash's Bladestorm). However, the benefit from the melee combo counter is added BEFORE Slash Dash's own increaser of the melee combo counter.

* I'd increase the width of the slash a LITTLE bit too.

* To make its damage a bit more interesting (and different from Rhino Charge), I think it should ALWAYS proc a bleed effect!

* Due to the bleed-addition and the combo counter benefits, I'd reduce the instant damage a bit, to 100/200/300/400 (changed from the current 150/225/400/500).

Power Strength - Increased damage (Same as now)
Power Range - Wider slash area (Same as now)
Power Duration - Longer dashing distance (Same as now)

 

Recastable mid-duration?

Not recastable during the actual animation, but there is no limit to how many enemies can be affected by the bleed effect + the bleed effect stacks if it hits the same enemy more than once).

 

- Radial Blind -

Excalibur's probably most powerful skill, only some minor tweaks are done:

* The stun duration is nerfed a little bit (from 5 seconds at all ranks, to 2,5 / 3 / 3,5 /4 seconds for each rank). Recasting time still remains at a static 5 seconds.

* However, the stun duration is now affected by Power Strength! This is to balance it up with the Corrupted mods (which also need rebalancing, but that's a different thread)

* A potential thing to rebalance it (if it is still considered too strong), would be that if you recast it, all previously affected targets have the effect removed from them before it is recast. (If previous targets are caught in the new cast, they will be affected again of course).

Power Strength - Increases stun-duration (New!)
Power Range - Increases effect radius (Same as now)
Power Duration - Increases blind duration (Same as now)

 

Recastable mid-duration?

Only recastable once every 5 seconds (regardless of mods). However, there is no limit to how many enemies can be debuffed at once.

 

- Weapon of Light -

This is the ability I would "replace" for Excalibur (as I consider Super Jump should be made into a generic Warframe ability-mod). What Weapon of Light does:

* Upon cast, Excalibur and all allies within 15/20/22/25 meters are granted the Weapon of Light buff

* This buff infuses all affected allies' melee weapon with energy for a 10/13/17/20 seconds.

* This energy-infusion causes you to project forwardmoving, very fastmoving energy beams/waves every time you attack with your melee weapon! (This works for regular attacks and wallattacks, what it does for the other abilities are listed a bit further down)

* The look of the beams depends on how your melee weapon's attacks look like. So a big slash with a sword sends out a wide "energyslash" in front of you, while the punches from a gauntlet sends big "energyballs" in front of you.
* This energy has 100% punchthrough along its travel, but only against targets, not the environment.

* This energy provides with +1 to the melee combo counter for each enemy it hits! (Which means: Absolutely awesome synergy with Slash Dash!). Hitting an enemy with both your actual weapon AND this energy does indeed grant you +2 to the counter!
* Damage is based on your melee attack, dealing, say, 25/35/50/65% of your melee weapon's damage in Radiation damage type (0% proc chance)
* The distance these energy beams/slashes/balls/whatever-projections travel are limitted, but they should travel quite far. Say, 16/19/23/26 meters or so? (Note: These ranges were chosen with Radial Javelin's range in mind (+1 meter for each rank). Read on Radial Javelin on why. I think the synergy is quite nice!)

 

OTHER ATTACKS AND THEIR BENEFITS:

These above mentioned"projectiles" you create are only made when you do regular attacks and wallattacks. The other attacks have different benefits though:

1) Groundfinisher, Stealthfinisher, Counterfinisher, Jumpslam - At the point/enemy you attack with these attacks, you project an energyblast with a radius of 2/3/4/5 meters, dealing 25/35/50/65% Radiation damage of the attack's damage in its radius! Yes, this of course stacks with the very attack itself (if the enemy is hit by both the attack itself and the energyblast). This means that even attacks like Counterfinishers can be quite the powerful aoe-attacks now! And on weapons like Kogake etc, an energyblast is indeed done for EVERY groundpunch! OH THE LOVELY MAYHEM! :D

2) Slideattacks - Along the whole path you are slideattacking, your weapon gets an energyextension, which reaches out 1,5 / 2 / 2,5 / 3 meters, dealing 25/35/50/65% Radiation damage of the slideattack's damage (Which, of course, stacks with the slideattack's damage itself, if you hit with both)

Power Strength - Increases energy-damage (New!)
Power Range - Increases buffing radius and energy-projectiles' travellingdistance (New!) (Note: It also affects the range/radius of the other attacks with their respective effects!)
Power Duration - Increases buff duration (New!)

 

Recastable mid-duration?

Yes, refreshing the ability's duration to allies already affected by the buff.

 

- Radial Javelin -

- Blade Barrier -

This ability needs a bit of tuning to make it more on par with other ultimates. The current Radial Javelin is still there, so don't worry, just read the whole thing. Many of the new ideas added are GREATLY inspired by

Blatantfool's ideas:

 

The ability now has two phases:

1) Spinning blades

2) Radial launch (the current Radial Javelin)

 

Phase 1 - SPINNING BLADES

* Acts slightly differently upon activation now - When activated, Excalibur summons 6/8/10/12 spinning blades of energy that will follow him for 7/8/9/10 seconds whirling around him, dealing 100/150/200/250 Slash damage a second to every enemy around him (Note: This DPS is independant of the number of blades he has spinning around him). The range of this particular effect is just a couple of meters around him (the radius is equal to about the length of the actual blades)

* In addition, while the blades are whirling around you, Excalibur could have some form of minor protection against ranged projectiles. Something simple, like 15/20/25/30% less damage taken from enemy projectiles or so.

* If you block while the blades are spinning around you, the blades stop spinning for as long as you are blocking and will greatly help you with blocking, instead of damaging nearby enemies! These are the blocking bonuses:

1) It gives you 360 degree blocking!

2) When a blade helps you blocking melee attacks, they also instantly counterattack the assailant, dealing some damage (say, 200/300/400/500 Slash damage?) and guarantees that the target is counterstunned, allowing you to do the counter finisher if you want to!

3) All enemy projectiles are reflected back, dealing 25/50/75/100% of the damage back at the attacker. This would stack with the Reflection-mod!

 

Phase 2 - RADIAL LAUNCH

* Once the duration ends, or if you activate the ability again before its duration runs out (which costs no energy), the blades are shot out in a similar fashion to how Radial Javelin works right now.

* When the blades shoot out, they can now penetrate lesser surfaces (such as rail covers and Shield Lancer shields), but not much more. Just enough to take out mildly covered enemies.

* When a shot out blade hits a target, the target is impaled by the blade, the blade still being stuck in the target. This does not stop the blade, so it pushes the enemy along its trajectory. Any enemy that collides with this impaled target also suffer damage (equal damage) and is knocked down. The impaled enemy is considered ragdolled for the entire duration, and if the impaled target is pinned by the blade hitting any kind of environmental obstruction (such as a wall), it will be stuck there until the blade dissipates. (Note: The duration a blade lasts is as long as if it travelled its remaining distance)

 

Things for both phases:

* Cast times should be non-existant. The initiation should be very brief, and the final blade "release / launch / shootout" should cause no casting animation on Excalibur whatsoever (otherwise it would just be unnecessarily interruptive)

 

Power Strength - Increases blade damage, damage reduction and parry-reflection damage (New for reduction and reflection)
Power Range - Increases the blades' length (thus increases the aoe of the initial "spinning blade" effect) and the blade's travel distance (and thus also pushback distance and indirectly, pinning duration) (Same as now)
Power Duration - Increases the spinning blade duration and the amount of blades summoned (New! Blade amount used to be affected by Power Strength before)

 

Recastable mid-duration?

Yes and no. Casting it again midduration ends phase 1 (the spinning blades) and makes it go straight to phase 2 (launching the blades). After phase 2 is over (which is instant), it can then be recast!

 

Then, what about Super Jump?

- Super Jump -

I have two ideas for this skill:

1) Make it plain better and more fitting for Excalibur

or

2) Make it better, but also make it a GENERIC Warframe ability (an ability any Warframe can equip)

 

Regardless of version, I'd do this to it:

* When you perform this jump, a little (very slightly, like 50/100/150/200) damaging AoE-energy-blast (Blastdamage?) is made at your feet which also knocks down (or just staggers?) the affected enemies
* Being able to use Slash Jump WHILE IN THE AIR would increase its utility massively! Although, I think it could go with a limitted amount of useages in the air. Landing resets this limit, obviously. I'd give it a limit of just one use in the air, no matter the rank or modding)

* Jumping and "landing" on a wall could make you automatically stick to the wall perhaps?

 

If it were to remain as Excalibur's skill, I'd also add this:

* (Idea from Thaumatos) If knocked down, using Super Jump while laying down and you the ability would still be done instantly, countering the knockdown! That would make it a more interesting recovery-skill

* If you do a melee attack to land, the jump-attack + slam-attack could have the damage increased, say by 25/50/75/100% or so.

Power Strength - Increases initial blast-damage and jump/slam damage booster(New!)
Power Range - Increased AoE-effect's radius (New!)
Power Duration - Increased jump height (New! Used to be affected by Power Strength before)

 

Note: My preference would be to make Super Jump a generic mod. It just doesn't really fit Excalibur imo. It makes him have a role more as a "scout", rather than emphasizing him as some form of Swordsman

 

So, what can be said about scalability for Excalibur's abilities now? Let's see:

Slash Dash - Staggering, increasing the combo-counter, benefitting from the combo-counter and mobility, as well as its shortlasting invincibility is always gonna be very useful!

Radial Blind - Stunning and blinding are both tremendously well-scaling abilities!

Weapon of Light - Making melee attacks deal damage at range, the ability to increase the melee combo counter at range, and damage being based on the melee weapon, allows for melee weapon (and Slash Dash :P) to scale very nicely!

Blade Barrier - Damageprotection, superblocking-assistance and finally ragdolling enemies are always very good things and scales nicely too!

 

So, what are your thoughts on these Excalibur-changes? :)

 

All my Warframe rebalancing threads:

1)

Loki

2) Excalibur

3) Frost

4) Ember

5) Saryn

6) Ash

7) Nekros

8) Valkyr

Edited June 6, 2014 by Azamagon

[Regar]

The more i read your threads and the more the word "Rebalancing" sounds innaccurate for your proposals.

 

I mean, some of your ideas are interesting and fun to read, but they are just a bunch of random additions that aren't aimed to Balance anything at all, to Balance doesn't mean to Add

 

You should call em "Additions" or "Buffs" but there are some abilities that doesn't really need anything new (ike radial blind, it doesn't need any fancy laser beam, it's fine as it is)

 

Don't missudnerstand me, but i feel like you should try to put your creativity in use with new frames concepts and stuff like that, because like as you are doing it right now, you are both missing the point of writing down a feedback about your experience as player and suggesting ways to properely balance abilities that certanly need a buff or and adjustement.

 

Greetings, Regar

[HailCreation]

Radial Blind and Super Jump are absolutely fine.

 

Radial Blind is incredibly useful and allows an excalibur to get into a crowd with ease. It also has quite a wide range. Personally I think your suggestion is overly complex and unnecessary. 

 

Super Jump allows excalibur to be one of, if not the most mobile warframe in conjunction with other movement techniques like slide dashing in the air. Your suggested change also would require the ability to have an energy increase and ultimately cripple the utility of mobility. The fact that it costs 10 energy now allows practically unlimited usage. 

 

Slash Dash could benefit from a buff, not touching that. 

 

Radial Javelin is the issue. It's only effective in an open space where you walk into a crowd of enemies, or as a massive single target damage in conjunction with Mag's bullet attractor. The cost/damage ratio isn't worth using in its current form. I'd argue that a damage boost, infinite, or a large (5M+) puncture as well as an increase in barbs would make the ability more useful. 

[Thaumatos]

Radial Blind and Super Jump are absolutely fine.

 

Radial Blind is incredibly useful and allows an excalibur to get into a crowd with ease. It also has quite a wide range. Personally I think your suggestion is overly complex and unnecessary. 

 

Super Jump allows excalibur to be one of, if not the most mobile warframe in conjunction with other movement techniques like slide dashing in the air. Your suggested change also would require the ability to have an energy increase and ultimately cripple the utility of mobility. The fact that it costs 10 energy now allows practically unlimited usage. 

 

Slash Dash could benefit from a buff, not touching that. 

 

Radial Javelin is the issue. It's only effective in an open space where you walk into a crowd of enemies, or as a massive single target damage in conjunction with Mag's bullet attractor. The cost/damage ratio isn't worth using in its current form. I'd argue that a damage boost, infinite, or a large (5M+) puncture as well as an increase in barbs would make the ability more useful. 

 

Radial Blind is 100% CC for 5 seconds followed by a long duration of blindness.  There's nothing more to do to that skill other than make it instant cast.

 

Super Jump is not fine.  I mean, maybe if you're still too noob to wallrun, still don't know that Slash Dash moves through enemies, or really think that jumping up in the air helps blind and javelin.  Or maybe you haven't heard that the new frame will be able to fly.  Super Jump has always been useless outside of getting to know the game, "Look I just did 2 skills at once and got up here!" ... "Yeah, and I ran along the wall twice and did the same thing with less energy."

 

Radial Javelin just got a huge nerf in one of the patches without making it to the notes.  It used to be able to choose its targets within a radius and shoot javelins (if need be, like a shotgun) AT things.  Now it evenly spreads them out in a full 360 regardless of the situation.  They don't pierce targets, they require LoS, and now a target has to be in its way, not the other way around.  At least its damage was bearable when it chose targets.  Now its total garbage on missions outside Venus.

 

Slash Dash should take % of melee weapon's damage since he's already in an animation that specifically uses the melee weapon and 'slash' damage alone isn't going to cut it in almost any situation.  Excalibur needs the highly-mobile melee attack it was designed for.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Thaumatos

[Azamagon]

The more i read your threads and the more the word "Rebalancing" sounds innaccurate for your proposals.

 

I mean, some of your ideas are interesting and fun to read, but they are just a bunch of random additions that aren't aimed to Balance anything at all, to Balance doesn't mean to Add

 

You should call em "Additions" or "Buffs" but there are some abilities that doesn't really need anything new (ike radial blind, it doesn't need any fancy laser beam, it's fine as it is)

 

Don't missudnerstand me, but i feel like you should try to put your creativity in use with new frames concepts and stuff like that, because like as you are doing it right now, you are both missing the point of writing down a feedback about your experience as player and suggesting ways to properely balance abilities that certanly need a buff or and adjustement.

 

Greetings, Regar

Well, first of all, no offense taken :) I'm even glad you can enjoy my ideas :D

Maybe the word rebalancing is the wrong word. But you have also only seen two threads so far, I DO have some more generic buffs/nerfs incoming for certain frames. That said, you might think my additions/tweaks are random, but they DO have deeper thoughts behind them, they aren't just random ideas.

 

To be more thorough (I have problems always conveying my thoughts, a reason why most of my threads tend to get enormously big) and how my thoughtprocess (in a Q/A kind of way) has been for specific Warframes, in this specific case for Excalibur:

* Where is Excalibur positioned in the bigger scale of Warframe balance? Imo, he is a bit on the lower end of the spectrum. Thus I'd give buffs to him.

* What additions/buffs/changes could be made to his abilities so that they 1) synergize with one another, 2) that they are more fun, 3) that they are affected by all power adjustments (strength/range/duration) and 4) that they fit his theme? For Radial Blind, the only way I could think of it being affected by Focus was to add something to it. The addition I made was something related to meleeing, as his name is Excalibur and he does indeed have a melee theme on him. So to me, that one is not random. Same goes for Super Jump. I made it more melee-ish, made it more generally useful, made it have more in-combat applications.

* Now, why make everything affected by all the power adjustments. In short: The Corrupted mods. They are too strong if they only have benefits.

* Another reason for the additions/tweaks to the different skills is to make them more generally useful. Abilities need to be diverse. This is important to make sure Warframes don't remain one-trick-ponies (Such as Frost pretty much being just a Snowglobe-factory).

* General diversity + Synergy + Fun + Power adjustment balance (and balance in general) + Fitting the Warframe's theme all need to go hand in hand when you think of how to change abilities. I'm always trying to take all of those things into consideration at once when I make my suggestions. To others, maybe my ideas thus can feel a bit random. But really, they aren't. It's the only way I know how to suggest how to balance them in a "bigger picture" kind of way.

 

I actually have to say thank you for that post. Your thoughts made me able to explain a little better (I hope?) WHY I suggest the ideas I suggest.

 

Radial Blind and Super Jump are absolutely fine.

 

Radial Blind is incredibly useful and allows an excalibur to get into a crowd with ease. It also has quite a wide range. Personally I think your suggestion is overly complex and unnecessary. 

 

Super Jump allows excalibur to be one of, if not the most mobile warframe in conjunction with other movement techniques like slide dashing in the air. Your suggested change also would require the ability to have an energy increase and ultimately cripple the utility of mobility. The fact that it costs 10 energy now allows practically unlimited usage. 

 

Slash Dash could benefit from a buff, not touching that. 

 

Radial Javelin is the issue. It's only effective in an open space where you walk into a crowd of enemies, or as a massive single target damage in conjunction with Mag's bullet attractor. The cost/damage ratio isn't worth using in its current form. I'd argue that a damage boost, infinite, or a large (5M+) puncture as well as an increase in barbs would make the ability more useful. 

Radial Blind is indeed useful. But it has 0 applications with power strength mods. And that's bad for the overall balance of the game (Like I replied to Regar, this is mostly the culprit of the Corrupted mods. They need rebalancing as well. But that's another thread (which I have written about AND which I also always have in consideration when I'm suggesting my ideas. Here is that thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/158729-changing-the-modding-experience-mod-rebalance-and-more/ )

 

The Super Jump changes, if made not too powerful, could still leave it with a cost of 10 energy. But raising its cost a bit, even up to as much as 25, would still leave him very mobile. Just look at Valkyr with her Ripline. It costs 25 energy and I don't see anyone really saying she is too immobile...

 

Radial Javelin could indeed also be changed in the ways you described it to be more worthwhile. I just wanted to first emphasize on giving it some utility (as utility never stops being useful).

 

Radial Blind is 100% CC for 5 seconds followed by a long duration of blindness.  There's nothing more to do to that skill other than make it instant cast.

 

Super Jump is not fine.  I mean, maybe if you're still too noob to wallrun, still don't know that Slash Dash moves through enemies, or really think that jumping up in the air helps blind and javelin.  Or maybe you haven't heard that the new frame will be able to fly.  Super Jump has always been useless outside of getting to know the game, "Look I just did 2 skills at once and got up here!" ... "Yeah, and I ran along the wall twice and did the same thing with less energy."

 

Radial Javelin just got a huge nerf in one of the patches without making it to the notes.  It used to be able to choose its targets within a radius and shoot javelins (if need be, like a shotgun) AT things.  Now it evenly spreads them out in a full 360 regardless of the situation.  They don't pierce targets, they require LoS, and now a target has to be in its way, not the other way around.  At least its damage was bearable when it chose targets.  Now its total garbage on missions outside Venus.

 

Slash Dash should take % of melee weapon's damage since he's already in an animation that specifically uses the melee weapon and 'slash' damage alone isn't going to cut it in almost any situation.  Excalibur needs the highly-mobile melee attack it was designed for.

Radial Blind has good CC indeed, but the blindness is not 100% reliable. Actually, my first idea was to replace Super Jump with the Weapon of Light thingy (the melee boost), but I just can't scrap Super Jump either as I consider it useful (although in need of buffs, obviously). Thus, I ended up just merging the idea with Radial Blind, which someone called VKhaun suggested in one of my earlier threads. And I thought that would be the best compromise, as it also gives Radial Blind a way to be affected by Power Strength.

 

I'm glad you agreed Super Jump needs something else than just what it is right now. Maybe my suggestion for it is not perfect, but at least I'm suggesting SOMETHING :)

 

Are you serious about Radial Javelin not homing in on the targets anymore? :O I need to check that out! That's a very serious nerf to him (a nerf I didn't know). If that is indeed how it works now, I'll have to add that the Javelins indeed need to be "homing" again!

 

Slash Dash, well, I don't consider it should take % of melee weapon's damage in consideration. That would make it far too biased towards heavy weapons (they are biased enough!). Dealing flat damage is the only way to make it non-biased towards the melee weapon of choice. The player needs to be able to pick whatever melee weapon he or she wants without nerfing a basic and powerful ability.

That is also one of the reasons I added the Weapon of Light thing. THERE you can have your melee scalability-skill. The difference with this one is that you still have to use your melee weapon (so it's speed etc is taken into consideration). Slash Dash on the other hand always perform the same way when you use it, not taking the weapon speed or anything like that into consideration, hence why it wouldn't work with scaling of your melee weapons (Which is why it would be too biased towards heavy weapons). Unless you change it to actually take that into consideration. But THAT would be an overcomplicated change, imo.

[Azamagon]

First of all, updated his abilities, mainly Radial Javelin (heavily inspired by BlatantFool's Radical Javelin).

 

Radial Javelin just got a huge nerf in one of the patches without making it to the notes.  It used to be able to choose its targets within a radius and shoot javelins (if need be, like a shotgun) AT things.  Now it evenly spreads them out in a full 360 regardless of the situation.  They don't pierce targets, they require LoS, and now a target has to be in its way, not the other way around.  At least its damage was bearable when it chose targets.  Now its total garbage on missions outside Venus.

Second of all, I just tested this ^ myself. It's not true, it still has homing javelins. Maybe not in such a way that it can create a "shotgun" (haven't tested enough to confirm that or not), but at least it hits its intended targets with 100% accuracy.

[Thaumatos]

Radial Blind has good CC indeed, but the blindness is not 100% reliable. Actually, my first idea was to replace Super Jump with the Weapon of Light thingy (the melee boost), but I just can't scrap Super Jump either as I consider it useful (although in need of buffs, obviously). Thus, I ended up just merging the idea with Radial Blind, which someone called VKhaun suggested in one of my earlier threads. And I thought that would be the best compromise, as it also gives Radial Blind a way to be affected by Power Strength.

 

I'm glad you agreed Super Jump needs something else than just what it is right now. Maybe my suggestion for it is not perfect, but at least I'm suggesting SOMETHING :)

 

Are you serious about Radial Javelin not homing in on the targets anymore? :O I need to check that out! That's a very serious nerf to him (a nerf I didn't know). If that is indeed how it works now, I'll have to add that the Javelins indeed need to be "homing" again!

 

Slash Dash, well, I don't consider it should take % of melee weapon's damage in consideration. That would make it far too biased towards heavy weapons (they are biased enough!). Dealing flat damage is the only way to make it non-biased towards the melee weapon of choice. The player needs to be able to pick whatever melee weapon he or she wants without nerfing a basic and powerful ability.

That is also one of the reasons I added the Weapon of Light thing. THERE you can have your melee scalability-skill. The difference with this one is that you still have to use your melee weapon (so it's speed etc is taken into consideration). Slash Dash on the other hand always perform the same way when you use it, not taking the weapon speed or anything like that into consideration, hence why it wouldn't work with scaling of your melee weapons (Which is why it would be too biased towards heavy weapons). Unless you change it to actually take that into consideration. But THAT would be an overcomplicated change, imo.

 

Slash Dash: We've had a few proposals on what could happen to this skill.  For the most part, people agree that it should remain functionally the same.  Its highly useful for mobility and it does damage enough to be used as an offensive tool early in the game.  The problem is that its offensive capabilities fall off very quickly unless you're heavily modded; and even then you can't use it offensively outside of level 30 mobs.

 

One major change would have to be damage.  The best way I see it would be to modify damage based on melee mods.  Whatever choice you make for melee weapon and mods, they should influence Slash Dash.  It is, after all, Excalibur swinging his melee weapon.  I agree they would need to balance it between all melee.  Perhaps put floors and ceilings on things.  We can't have another Hysteria on our hands.

 

Super Jump: This skill is just boring and useless (as I've said, outside of inexperienced play).  Slash Dash, sliding, wall running, and stamina mods offer much better mobility.  Frankly, I don't see any need for Super Jump outside of, "Wheeeeeeeeeeeee!" for 10 energy.  Yes, yes Heavy Impact blah blah blah.  Here's the real kicker though, touch it and people freak out.  Like you put your smelly, grubby little hand on their baby.  Whats that all about?

 

Listen, I wouldn't be too broken up if they 100% replaced the skill.  At the same time, I'd like for it to be better.  I think giving players the ability to aim it and jump from wall to wall would be nice, but not enough.  Here's what I think they could add to really make it sting: if used while Knocked Down, Super Jump immediately rights Excalibur.  Give him something to counter CC.

 

Radial Blind: Radial Blind is definitely 100% CC for 5 seconds.  That first 5 seconds is not able to be modified in any way and during that 5 seconds you cannot re-use Radial Blind.  The enemies become aware to the extent of actual blindness after that for a duration that can be modified.  If you make noise, they'll run for you.  They can still melee you.  If you don't touch them, you get a sneak attack bonus (the host of the game gets it currently).

 

That's how the skill works.  It's 100% reliable based on how it's supposed to work.  The only time when it can bug out on you is if you get knocked down while using it.  It seems to half-work on Grineer causing them to pause for 5 seconds and afterward regain the ability to use primary weaponry.  It's very hard to achieve this bug though.  Timing, lag, and enemies have to be lined up like the planets in orbit.

 

Radial Javelin:

 

First of all, updated his abilities, mainly Radial Javelin (heavily inspired by BlatantFool's Radical Javelin).

 

Second of all, I just tested this ^ myself. It's not true, it still has homing javelins. Maybe not in such a way that it can create a "shotgun" (haven't tested enough to confirm that or not), but at least it hits its intended targets with 100% accuracy.

 

It'll curve towards the chosen targets after firing.  That's not what I'm saying though.  The Javelins fire in a full 360 regardless of whether or not a target is around to choose.  If there are enemies on your right, and just your right, it will choose a few of them, those that were originally in the path of the javelin-to-be, and hit them.  The rest of the javelins will go flying off in other directions needlessly.

 

This is not how it used to work, and it makes RJ a lot less useful when fighting large groups of enemies without first diving dangerously into the center of them.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Thaumatos

[LukeAura]

"Bathe in the light!" ~ WoL, Dissida. Had to. 
*ahem* 

Excalibur I've always seen as a leader of Tenno, taking a Warlord/Champion/General style of combat. Melee focus, leading the charge, balancing CC with just a touch of mobility and buffs. He is the first Warframe, named after the 'sword of kings', but plays much more like a melee-scout than what I would expect of him. 

Giving stagger and Bleed to Slash Dash is a nice touch. I wouldn't mind its speed being increased a touch though(Perhaps by increasing power strength?). I think what would be cooler would be to have each enemy got knockdowned once the ability is complete. Kind of a cliche though. 

Weapon of Light, here is the way I see him to become much more of a leader. I'd reduce the strength of the bonus effect a little, damage down to 33% of melee weapon at max, and let it apply to all allies in range. I think range and effect could be based on weapon type. Swords do 3 meter wide energy slashes that travel 13 meters and hit up to 3 targets. Heavy weapons do 6 meter wide slashes up to 8 meters that hit 5. Fists would throw faster long range pulses, 1-2 targets. Daggers would throw a scattered flurry like a shotgun/minigun of waves, 1 target but maybe throw out 2 blades randomly each slash?. Probably should be equal parts puncture/slash/impact. 

Slash Jump I like, maybe make it stagger with a chance of knockdown? Although keep the damage low except for the single strike so it doesn't have to cost too much more. The ability to use it while knockdowned is a really nice touch as well. 

Blade Barrier, another chance for the champion role to shine. The minor cover piercing is a must, but I also think it should give a small buff to allies like, "Emboldens allies in range, giving them much faster regenerating stamina and a mild damage reduction bonus(20%-25% at max rank)". I think the start up animation does need to remain fast, and for the ending animation just have him pull out the sword and as he's re-sheathing it let him be able to move while the animation is finishing, or roll to cancel it early.  

 

[Azamagon]

Hey Luke! Answers underlined and bolded, as usual :P

"Bathe in the light!" ~ WoL, Dissida. Had to. 
*ahem* 

Excalibur I've always seen as a leader of Tenno, taking a Warlord/Champion/General style of combat. Melee focus, leading the charge, balancing CC with just a touch of mobility and buffs. He is the first Warframe, named after the 'sword of kings', but plays much more like a melee-scout than what I would expect of him. 

That's actually a good role for him! Thought of him more as a mobile swordsman, but I guess making him more of a leadertype is truly fitting his name and all. Good thinking! :)

Giving stagger and Bleed to Slash Dash is a nice touch. I wouldn't mind its speed being increased a touch though(Perhaps by increasing power strength?). I think what would be cooler would be to have each enemy got knockdowned once the ability is complete. Kind of a cliche though. 

Faster dash with power strength? Now that's a good (and very unique and different) little bonus for it!

Knockdown, I don't know. Rhino's Charge already does that, no need to make them even MORE similar!

Weapon of Light, here is the way I see him to become much more of a leader. I'd reduce the strength of the bonus effect a little, damage down to 33% of melee weapon at max, and let it apply to all allies in range. I think range and effect could be based on weapon type. Swords do 3 meter wide energy slashes that travel 13 meters and hit up to 3 targets. Heavy weapons do 6 meter wide slashes up to 8 meters that hit 5. Fists would throw faster long range pulses, 1-2 targets. Daggers would throw a scattered flurry like a shotgun/minigun of waves, 1 target but maybe throw out 2 blades randomly each slash?. Probably should be equal parts puncture/slash/impact. 

Sounds like cool differing effects :)

Making it an ally buff is not a bad idea either, even though I think it fits the best for Excalibur alone, due to his name. Blinding all enemies is, imo, already beneficial enough for the team (which also already gives them a 1-hit melee bonus, due to the enemies becoming unaware from the blinding effects).

Slash Jump I like, maybe make it stagger with a chance of knockdown? Although keep the damage low except for the single strike so it doesn't have to cost too much more. The ability to use it while knockdowned is a really nice touch as well. 

Honestly, I think Super Jump has potential to become one of those upcoming "general ability mods", you know, that anyone can equip. If that would happen, I'd change his abilities like this:

Radial Blind - Stuns and blinds all enemy targets around you.

Power strength = Affects stun duration.

Power range = Affects radius on stun and blind.

Power duration = Affects blind duration.

 

Flourish / Weapon of Light (or whatever name, replacing Super Jump) - Grants Excalibur a powerful selfbuff. This buff reduces his damage taken (by just a tad, like 30% max) and grants him the melee-projectile thing.

Power strength = Affects damage reduction and melee-projectile damage.

Power range = Affects melee-projectile range

Power duration = Affects buff duration

Blade Barrier, another chance for the champion role to shine. The minor cover piercing is a must, but I also think it should give a small buff to allies like, "Emboldens allies in range, giving them much faster regenerating stamina and a mild damage reduction bonus(20%-25% at max rank)". I think the start up animation does need to remain fast, and for the ending animation just have him pull out the sword and as he's re-sheathing it let him be able to move while the animation is finishing, or roll to cancel it early.  
Once again, I dunno if he actually needs ally boosters like this. The buffs I gave to this ability would certainly make it strong enough already (imo), even if it is for Excalibur only. Him being able to wade into the enemies fearlessly and with lots of gore would be player-inspiring enough imo :P (Imagine having Blade Barrier active, then Slash Dashing in to a cluster of enemies, casting Radial Blind / Weapon of Light, then releasing the Blade Barrier in its "javelin" fashion)

Ally buffs just seem a little out of place here. Maybe for the above Flourish instead, I dunno.

 

Actually I will leave my thoughts on how to improve Excalibur for a bit, before we see what happens with Super Jump (I would like it to become one of those generic mods, it seems a little too bland to be purely for Excalibur). When that is feature is added, I'll give him some more thought.

Thanks for the great feedback as usual!

[LukeAura]

They're just the way I see Excalibur, hehe, wishes but maybe not necessary. 
We really have frames more intended for being mobile+CC units. Excalibur I'd like to think would be more a leader, and leaders well, generally go lead/buff themselves and their allies. XD 

Edited March 6, 2014 by LukeAura

[Oriviagene]

Hi Aza :) this is my fav frame and I'll give some suggestion regarding excal

Slash dash= ok but as u said it's need some more stagger+bleed procs(charging towards mobs,how come it's not staggering? Lol)

Radial blind(I think that 2nd name is...kinda weird)

I don't think this skill need any improvement,it's already good the way it is :)

(Or maybe for more dramatic effects,rather than pointing the sword upward,he can just stab his sword on the ground and the ground become shining light blinding enemies on that aoe,after dat excal releasing his sword in the way like javelin's ending animation)

Super jump...hmm,if I want a buff in this skill it would be faster jump animation...there's no need for dmg...really

Radial javelin...more dmg is needed OR same dmg BUT,capability to push+impaling targeted enemies towards wall(dead=impaled but if the impaled enemies is alive they gonna have bleed+slow effect for 10 seconds)(make the javelin looks like laser blades LOL)

This way javelin have some utility too for saving pod/fallen team by pushing mobs away from them

More like"u're in my WAY(activate javelin) modhafucka"

This is my suggestions,so what do u think aza?

[Azamagon]

Hi Aza :) this is my fav frame and I'll give some suggestion regarding excal

Slash dash= ok but as u said it's need some more stagger+bleed procs(charging towards mobs,how come it's not staggering? Lol)

Radial blind(I think that 2nd name is...kinda weird)

I don't think this skill need any improvement,it's already good the way it is :)

(Or maybe for more dramatic effects,rather than pointing the sword upward,he can just stab his sword on the ground and the ground become shining light blinding enemies on that aoe,after dat excal releasing his sword in the way like javelin's ending animation)

Super jump...hmm,if I want a buff in this skill it would be faster jump animation...there's no need for dmg...really

Radial javelin...more dmg is needed OR same dmg BUT,capability to push+impaling targeted enemies towards wall(dead=impaled but if the impaled enemies is alive they gonna have bleed+slow effect for 10 seconds)(make the javelin looks like laser blades LOL)

This way javelin have some utility too for saving pod/fallen team by pushing mobs away from them

More like"u're in my WAY(activate javelin) modhafucka"

This is my suggestions,so what do u think aza?

Sorry for missing this comment!

 

Slash Dash - Yup, glad you agreed on this :)

Radial Blind - I think I agreed actually. I have other new ideas for him incoming below! :)

Super Jump - Well, I think this one could be one of the "generic abilites" that are coming out soon

Radial Javelin - Yeah, pushback ragdoll would be really sweet for this ability.

 

That said, here are my new ideas for him:

 

* Slash Dash - Remains as I suggested

* Radial Blind - Remains how it is (not how I suggested it) HOWEVER, Power Strength could now affect the duration of the stun! With that though, the stunduration could need a slight reduction.

* Super Jump - REMOVED from Excalibur and made into a generic ability (one of those that ANY Warframe can use). I'd still keep the Stagger-effect upon the initiation of the jump though.

* Weapon of Light - Takes the whole "energywave from melee" concept I added to my revamp of Radial Blind and makes it a standalone power. Potentially make it a groupbuff! So, for the duration, you (and possibly your allies within X radius) now project waves of energy when you use melee weaponry, dealing X% of melee damage as Radiation-damage (or whatever), which travel X meters forward and has unlimited punchthrough! In short: A (team)buff that makes your melee a semi-ranged weapon.

(And @ LukeAura, if you are reading this: This would make him more fitting as the leader-champion as you suggested!)

* Blade Barrier - Now here are my new ideas for it, take what I suggested, i.e: Upon activation, you get blades spinning around you dealing shortrange DoT-damage + at the end of the duration (or if you activate the ability again midduration), it does the current Radial Javelin effect, but with the added effect that the javelins have some minor punchthrough and ragdolls the targets they hit, and add this to it:

-- While the blades are spinning around you and you block with your melee weapon, THE BLADES WILL STOP SPINNING FOR THE MOMENT YOU BLOCK AND WILL GREATLY HELP YOU WITH BLOCKING! It could give you the blocking-affect in a 360-degree around you, and maybe even make automatic counterattacks and whatnot! Doesn't that just sound really cool?

This would make it a highly (melee-)interactive ultimate, rather than just a "press 4 to win" one. Isn't that just awesome? :)

Edited April 1, 2014 by Azamagon

[LukeAura]

(And @ LukeAura, if you are reading this: This would make him more fitting as the leader-champion as you suggested!)

* Blade Barrier - Now here are my new ideas for it, take what I suggested, i.e: Upon activation, you get blades spinning around you dealing shortrange DoT-damage + at the end of the duration (or if you activate the ability again midduration), it does the current Radial Javelin effect, but with the added effect that the javelins have some minor punchthrough and ragdolls the targets they hit, and add this to it:

-- While the blades are spinning around you and you block with your melee weapon, THE BLADES WILL STOP SPINNING FOR THE MOMENT YOU BLOCK AND WILL GREATLY HELP YOU WITH BLOCKING! It could give you the blocking-affect in a 360-degree around you, and maybe even make automatic counterattacks and whatnot! Doesn't that just sound really cool?

This would make it a highly (melee-)interactive ultimate, rather than just a "press 4 to win" one. Isn't that just awesome? :)

 

I was literally after reading it going to make a comment about an auto parry/super block effect on them. 

-2Spoopy-

It definitely adds the idea of being a more sort of leader than a scout to excalibur. 

Question though.

Since it's a duration/mobile AoE ability, Could we combine it with Slash Dash to be a moving ball of death? I ask because I don't think many other duration based-damage ults allow for other abilities to be used during them. 

Edited April 5, 2014 by LukeAura

[Azamagon]

I was literally after reading it going to make a comment about an auto parry/super block effect on them. 

-2Spoopy-

It definitely adds the idea of being a more sort of leader than a scout to excalibur. 

Question though.

Since it's a duration/mobile AoE ability, Could we combine it with Slash Dash to be a moving ball of death?

Cool! Great minds think alike! ;)

 

Yup, moving ball of death indeed! If you Slash Dash while Blade Barrier is up and running, the blades of BB would indeed cause more damage as you pass by enemies with Slash Dash. The synergy is breathtakingly simple, yet so awesome! :D

 

EDIT: Saw your edit. I actually think you are wrong there. Most are allowed to cast other abilities during their durations. World on Fire, Vortex, Miasma, Tornado etc. They all allow it. Only exceptions I can think of are Overload (but that's a bug as far as I can tell) and Soundquake (due to it being a channeling ability, which is just plain wrong imo). So I don't really see why not?

Edited April 5, 2014 by Azamagon

[LukeAura]

EDIT: Saw your edit. I actually think you are wrong there. Most are allowed to cast other abilities during their durations. World on Fire, Vortex, Miasma, Tornado etc. They all allow it. Only exceptions I can think of are Overload (but that's a bug as far as I can tell) and Soundquake (due to it being a channeling ability, which is just plain wrong imo). So I don't really see why not?

True, although I was kind of discounting Vortex and Tornado as they tend to be more focused on CC than damage. 

Didn't know about Miasma though, thanks for that one! 

 

[Tatersail]

I think radial blind needs a nerf not a buff.

 

a simple tweak..

 

Make "slash dash" deal bonus damage/crit/status based on equipped weapon (Valkyr style) to push the damage up, this skill is actually one of the strongest 1's in game because its AOE.

 

Radial blind needs a slight nerf, with a buff to counter (this skill currently dominates endgame with corrupted mods, and makes Loki and Ash's invisibility skills pointless while detracting from other control skills like Chaos, Terrify and Radial disarm) add Power in use to the blind part of the skill, but increase the range of the skill so it really does hit everything without the need for corrupted mods.

 

leave super jump, its a love or hate skill, possibly add some aoe landing mechanic like heavy impact passive.

 

add 100% pierce to Radial Javelin, its limited to 15 targets so increase the damage up to 450 puncture, 450 impact 450 slash. this would allow multiple hits on targets in a packed doorway, and cause high damage.

 

 

now he has a decent 1, balanced 2, utility 3 and strong 4

[Methanoid]

sounds completely overkill imho, hes perfect as he is in everything except radial jav getting blocked or seemingly not hitting stuff it should.

[Azamagon]

True, although I was kind of discounting Vortex and Tornado as they tend to be more focused on CC than damage. 

Didn't know about Miasma though, thanks for that one! 

 

Yup, but least they don't get weird power in use bugs like Volt gets on his Overload.

And no problem, glad to clarify! :)

 

I think radial blind needs a nerf not a buff.

 

a simple tweak..

 

Make "slash dash" deal bonus damage/crit/status based on equipped weapon (Valkyr style) to push the damage up, this skill is actually one of the strongest 1's in game because its AOE.

 

Radial blind needs a slight nerf, with a buff to counter (this skill currently dominates endgame with corrupted mods, and makes Loki and Ash's invisibility skills pointless while detracting from other control skills like Chaos, Terrify and Radial disarm) add Power in use to the blind part of the skill, but increase the range of the skill so it really does hit everything without the need for corrupted mods.

 

leave super jump, its a love or hate skill, possibly add some aoe landing mechanic like heavy impact passive.

 

add 100% pierce to Radial Javelin, its limited to 15 targets so increase the damage up to 450 puncture, 450 impact 450 slash. this would allow multiple hits on targets in a packed doorway, and cause high damage.

 

 

now he has a decent 1, balanced 2, utility 3 and strong 4

Slash Dash - I do NOT want abilities to be affected by weapons in such a way! Regarding that, here's my response about that in another thread with a similar suggestion:

"I disagreed, this is not the way to "fix" Excalibur. It was a failure on Valkyr and it would be a failure on Excalibur too.

 

Why do I say it was a failure on Valkyr? Pidgeonholing, that's why. You don't use the most optimal melee weapon on her and her ultimate skill will not be as useful as if you did. Thus, weapon-variety takes another step in the wrong direction.

 

Abiliites have always been made as a standalone "weapon" or as an aid to your weaponry. Not the other way around. Weapons should NOT empower your abilities!

 

In fact, I'd possibly even go to the extent that Excalibur shouldn't even be using the equipped melee weapon for Slash Dash, he should be using some kind of projected shiny energyblade to perform the attack, since, after all, he is called Excalibur and the ability deals Slash-damage."

So yeah, I strongly disagreed about Slash Dash being affected by your equipped melee weapon.

 

Radial Blind - Yeah, listening to those far more experienced Excalibur users, I reverted my ideas. My nerf on it would be to reduce the stun by 1 second (down to 4 seconds max), while making Power Strength affect the stun duration. Thus, if you go for a huge range (Overextended), you are nerfing the stun duration etc. Now "corrupting" up the mod will have its downsides, like all abilities should.

The "Power in Use" message needs to go away 100%. I hate it, it's so antifun. It's NOT a solution to those kind of abilities! The abilities should be recastable any time, and if considered too powerful, recasting them should simply remove the effect from the previously affected targets. But NOT that horrible "Power in Use" message, that needs to die in a fire!

 

Super Jump - It's honestly too lackluster to be a specific Warframe skill. It should be a generic Warframe skill (one that any Warframe could use), which is gonna be a thing soon anyway! Besides, Heavy Impact should be all about the landing, the Super Jump then having a jump-blast upon initial activation fits more then as what the power does, otherwise Heavy Impact would be completely redundant. Heavy Impact should compliment it, rather than make the ability feel as a double-upper.

 

Radial Javelin - Just bumping up the numbers could work, but we honestly need more interactive ultimates, rather than just radial nukes.

 

I need to update the initial post though, to reflect my newest thoughts on his skills.

sounds completely overkill imho, hes perfect as he is in everything except radial jav getting blocked or seemingly not hitting stuff it should.

I have ideas how to tone down the powers now, gonna update asap!

 

"Radial Blind is indeed useful. But it has 0 applications with power strength mods. And that's bad for the overall balance of the game (Like I replied to Regar, this is mostly the culprit of the Corrupted mods. "

 

It doesn't need any application with Power Strength nor should it, doesn't affect the overall balance at all. At most skills are affected by two out of three and that is absolutely fine. I don't agree that this skill needs changing at all, either a buff or a nerf. It does have a 5 second cooldown (which you can repeatedly use to keep enemies stunned but a) it's pointless b) waste of energy). It is hands down the most reliable skill in game I'd say.

Disagreed. The reason why Corrupted mods are too good sometimes (besides having bad numerical balancing) is JUST BECAUSE not all powers are affected by all power adjusters! That's why you can use 100% Radial Blind builds and do just fine.

[Archangelzz]

Radial blind is fine as it is 5 second stun followed by a decent blind status which grants 4x melee damage boost since blind puts them into a un alerted status. Super jump is fine it allows Excalibur to be one of the best mobility warframes in the game and when used in conjunction with the heavy impact mod. Allows for a cheap area knockdown that knocks down every non boss unit in the game effectively giving you a superb mobility power and a area knockdown all in one power I do like the weapon of light power though it seems interesting.

[Thaumatos]

Given the new melee system, I'd change xcal in the following ways:

• Slash Dash improves in damage based on the hit combo modifier
• Radial Blind can be used during melee combo attacks
• Super Jump rights you after being knocked down
• Radial Javelin uses any energy 'charge' properties of your current melee weapon

 

He'd be absolutely perfect...and probably require a few numbers tweaks.

[BloodArmoredApostle]

My question is why would you want to nerf excal in the first place? Really superjump? This made me laugh some. Replace Superjump with something else...cuz atm that slot ability is used for another more useful mod.

[Azamagon]

My question is why would you want to nerf excal in the first place? Really superjump? This made me laugh some. Replace Superjump with something else...cuz atm that slot ability is used for another more useful mod.

Who are you talking to? You are talking exactly the opposite of what I did to him:

How did I nerf Excalibur? How did my buff on Super Jump make it a nerf? How was giving Super Jump an alternative (in case it became a generic mod for any Warframe) NOT giving it an alternative replacement? That's exactly what I did!

 

Are you simply incapable of reading, or are you talking to someone else?

You probably couldn't confuse me any more than this! Oo

[(PSN)Simba_KillzZ]

PLS DE this seriously needs to happen

[Azamagon]

Bump!

 

Heavily updated my ideas for Excalibur in special regards to Melee 2.0! Slash Dash, Weapon of Light and Blade Barrier ... I bet you guys will like the ideas for them! :)

 

(I have a feeling they might even be a bit overpowered :P)