Dead Eye Aura Values Make No Sense And Research Proves It

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

This morning saw the release of Dead Eye. This is a sniper specific aura that boosts damage done by sniper rifles. Sounds like it'd be fantastic for sniper lovers (the few of us that are out there), right?

 

Except it's incredibly useless, and is worse than its counterpart, Rifle Amp.

 

Here's some damage values for my Vectis. I took it into Terminus, Mercury, and shot up some level 1 Lancers. All my auras were maxed, and these are non-crit body shots. The only relevant mod for this test was my Serration, which is maxed out.

 

No Aura: 2022

Rifle Amp: 2228

Dead Eye: 2175

 

Note that Rifle Amp works with sniper rifles. This isn't exactly new or anything, it's pretty well known and is even confirmed in the wiki.

 

Now, I'm going to skip the obvious WTF until the end and explain how this works.

 

This confirms that Dead Eye works the same as Rifle Amp, in that it stacks additive with Serration and Heavy Caliber. For the more... mathematically challenged, let's just say Serration maxed gives a base of 2.65 damage, Rifle Amp maxed gives an extra .27 base damage, and Dead Eye gives an extra .2 base damage. So for Rifle Amp, that's ~10.1% extra damage, and (2.92/2.65)2022 = ~2228, which matches up. Similarly, for Dead Eye that's ~7% extra damage in the form of (2.85/2.65)2022 = ~2175. If you extend this to builds that also include Heavy Caliber, Rifle Amp/Dead Eye give an extra 6%/4.5% respectively, which is pretty damn bad.

 

Now for the obvious WTF. Why the heck is Dead Eye, the sniper specific damage aura, outclassed by the generic rifle damage aura. Dead Eye is already inferior due to it having a max rank of 3, and thus providing 4 less mod points than other generic auras. But it performs worse for the intended class as well?!?

 

Sniper rifles in this game are already in a bad spot. They don't fit the pace of the game very well with their generally slow fire rates and reload times. They draw from the smallest ammunition pool, and their ammunition also drops the least. They're designed for long range combat when the majority of combat in this game is short to mid range. The only real reason to take a sniper rifle in this game is to provide super high damage and gib high priority targets, which is questionable given that other weapons do this just fine without all the downsides.

 

What the heck is the reasoning behind this?

 

And before you say, "oh, it's a beta, mistakes are to be made" or something similar... hell no. It is no secret that Rifle Amp works on sniper rifles, and any mathematically competent person should have immediately noticed that this sniper specific mod provides an inferior bonus to a generic rifle mod which also affects snipers. There is NO excuse for this. There is also absolutely no reason for Dead Eye to provide less mod points, from any perspective ever. Sniper rifle users are already partially gimping themselves for using a weapon ill designed for the pace of the game, and you want to punish them further?

 

This makes absolutely no sense, at all, no matter what you say. You can't even call this a mistake.

Edited February 21, 2014 by DERebecca
removed insults

[BrotherIcarus]

So you think the mod is underpowered and needs a buff?

 

There I just compressed that novel into a line.

 

Also there is a feedback section.

[Keltik0ne]

It probably isn't intentional: De has a rather unique approach to QA, in that they ignore it.

 

After a certain level of people spot the problems, the say "it's a known issue" and frantically adjust it.

[Kato-san]

Or they could just make it a 20% overall damage like charged chamber.

[IIJetfireII]

Buff dead eye aura pls.

[xoxcloudxox]

yes that 10% sprint boost aura is so worth it too lol.

[[DE]Rebecca]

Adjusted title to reflect the valid research presented, all this being passed on in an effort to figure out what the intent is with this Aura.

[Archistopheles]

Take it back a notch, OP. Numbers can always be changed.

[Xelorx]

Given that I understand how dumb it is that they forgot that, I'd imagine that just pointing it out in the feedback forums would do the trick.

So what I'm seeing here is rage on a situation that could've been pointed out to the devs with a better attitude. This isn't even a tough problem to sort out.

So what's going on?

Edited February 21, 2014 by Xelorx

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

So you think the mod is underpowered and needs a buff?

 

There I just compressed that novel into a line.

 

Also there is a feedback section.

 

This is more than just about a mod being underpowered and needing a buff.

 

This is something so insanely stupid and obvious that I can't believe people aren't worried that stuff like this is even capable of making it into the game.

 

Anyone can tell just from the stats alone that Dead Eye is inferior and useless.

 

And they still released it as it is.

 

Does that not worry you even a little bit?

 

Like I said, stuff like bad decision making on things like the Legendary cores, whatever. Something like this is simply... I don't know. It directly shows how detached the people developing things like this are from their own game.

Edited February 21, 2014 by omgwtflolbbl

[Amistyrja]

Wait... what? I thought getting Dead Eye meant that I could have great fun with my Vectis and Dread... got the aura and realized that it's no longer 60% damage. wtf

[ErudiusNacht]

Given that I understand how dumb it is that they forgot that, I'd imagine that just pointing it out in the feedback forums would do the trick.

So what I'm seeing here is rage on a situation that could've been pointed out to the devs with a better attitude. This isn't even a tough problem to sort out.

So what's going on?

 

In my understanding, the OP is just pointing out the haphazard way this mod was released. Unintentional or not, this release just creates misinformation and confusion in-game. Frustration may have been the fuel for this post, but the values are valid.

[AlchemistMute]

Yeah, it's pretty stupid. Rifle Amp affects snipers as well as all primaries, gives more points, and has a higher damage increase. Considering how Rifle Amp is a damage increase for all primaries for every teammate, it's damage should be lower than a specific-class aura. So, I think that the ranks on Dead Eye should be increase to 5, start at 10% and increase by 10% each rank.

 

Personally a class-specific aura should have a large increase, since it's specialized.

[Xelorx]

This is more than just about a mod being underpowered and needing a buff.

This is something so insanely stupid and obvious that I can't believe people aren't worried that stuff like this is even capable of making it into the game.

Anyone can tell just from the stats alone that Dead Eye is inferior and useless.

And they still released it as it is.

Does that not worry you even a little bit?

Like I said, stuff like bad decision making on things like the Legendary cores, whatever. Something like this is simply... I don't know. It directly shows how detached the people developing things like this are from their own game.

They already made it clear multiple times that they don't look at every detail in the game. The problem you just pointed out is only a child point of a bigger problem, which was also made clear through your post, the snipers not fitting in the game's flow. They should've thought of how to fit the whole class of weapons on to begin with, but right now it's just tacked on, kind of like how PvP is tacked on.

Put simply, DE is making all the mistakes they can, to hopefully learn from them. You're free to stop playing and come back later when you feel you're ready to play again. And should DE continue to make the same mistakes, you can always point it out later, albeit with a better attitude, then leave again. Muscle memory is part of the learning process.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Xelorx

[Xelorx]

In my understanding, the OP is just pointing out the haphazard way this mod was released. Unintentional or not, this release just creates misinformation and confusion in-game. Frustration may have been the fuel for this post, but the values are valid.

I figured it was frustration. The passion in the first post was well presented. Just felt over the top for me.

[Kyphe]

I am just concerned that they will fix this by making rifle amp no longer work with snipers.

 

This was clearly a very bad idea by someone not thinking straight, they thought "oh if we are going to make this mod freely available it needs a nerf" and then made it useless on two counts.

 

It loses mod capacity as an aura compared to what we are used to and build around, and it does less damage than an existing aura.

 

This mod is total trash in it's current form, I would never use it even if they did mess with rifle amp.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Kyphe

[Kalenath]

It probably isn't intentional: De has a rather unique approach to QA, in that they ignore it.

 

After a certain level of people spot the problems, the say "it's a known issue" and frantically adjust it.

 

Well, considering that WE are their Q&A department...

[Noble_Cactus]

I would rather see Rifle Amp apply to all primaries (so it would include shotguns as well). Dead Eye, meanwhile, could be changed to buff crit damage, crit chance, headshot damage, or heck, all three.

[TwiceDead]

Someone get's it! While I admit your math left me spinning, even I got the redundancy of this mod as soon as I retrieved it this morning. 

 

Beer's on me. No worries about us being in different locations, i'll drink yours for you. 

 

EDIT:
I ran your math myself on some other examples just to memorize how to do this formula. Live & Learn on the internetz. 

Edited February 21, 2014 by TwiceDead

[Relkin408]

Holy christ angry much.....somebody get this man a Xanax.  it's a game calm your tee-tahs.  Stuff happens...thanks for researching it for the community and stuff really but dude - dat rage.

[TwiceDead]

Holy christ angry much.....somebody get this man a Xanax.  it's a game calm your tee-tahs.  Stuff happens...thanks for researching it for the community and stuff really but dude - dat rage.

I sense no rage from the OP's post. You must be interpreting it the wrong way. 

Edited February 21, 2014 by TwiceDead

[Cr4p]

Hopefully the fix doesn't end up being "nerf rifle amp to match" or "make rifle amp not apply to sniper weapons" =D

[Metsudo]

Their are some major issues with mods across the board in terms of balance. Of note is the issue with ice/electric mods on melee being lower in both cost and effect. I would guess that a lot of this stems from the transition from damage 1.0 to 2.0, but it definitely needs looking into at some point. The auras really should all provide the same bonus mod energy, with balance being done via the bonus team effect.

 

The reason, for example, that energy syphon is so much more useful is because it effects a major aspect of the game in general. All Warframes need energy so it's useful on all of them. Something like rejuvenation however is much less important because it effects an equally less important aspect of the game. Health takes a back seat to shields and probably always will; and as it stands, energy syphon will probably stay on top until something like a shield regen aura is released.

[Wolfstein]

 I imagine it eventually will be made that Rifle Amp does not affect anything other than rifles. A 20% boost to rifle damage is still (or should be) outclassed by 15% damage bonus to sniper rifles. A lack of stealth probably contributes to this, but I think it was probably an oversight - I foresee many mod tweaks in the future, and expect rifle amp to be one of them.

[Mailblade]

This morning saw the release of Dead Eye. This is a sniper specific aura that boosts damage done by sniper rifles. Sounds like it'd be fantastic for sniper lovers (the few of us that are out there), right?

 

Except it's incredibly useless, and is worse than its counterpart, Rifle Amp.

 

Here's some damage values for my Vectis. I took it into Terminus, Mercury, and shot up some level 1 Lancers. All my auras were maxed, and these are non-crit body shots. The only relevant mod for this test was my Serration, which is maxed out.

 

No Aura: 2022

Rifle Amp: 2228

Dead Eye: 2175

 

Note that Rifle Amp works with sniper rifles. This isn't exactly new or anything, it's pretty well known and is even confirmed in the wiki.

 

Now, I'm going to skip the obvious WTF until the end and explain how this works.

 

This confirms that Dead Eye works the same as Rifle Amp, in that it stacks additive with Serration and Heavy Caliber. For the more... mathematically challenged, let's just say Serration maxed gives a base of 2.65 damage, Rifle Amp maxed gives an extra .27 base damage, and Dead Eye gives an extra .2 base damage. So for Rifle Amp, that's ~10.1% extra damage, and (2.92/2.65)2022 = ~2228, which matches up. Similarly, for Dead Eye that's ~7% extra damage in the form of (2.85/2.65)2022 = ~2175. If you extend this to builds that also include Heavy Caliber, Rifle Amp/Dead Eye give an extra 6%/4.5% respectively, which is pretty damn bad.

 

Now for the obvious WTF. Why the heck is Dead Eye, the sniper specific damage aura, outclassed by the generic rifle damage aura. Dead Eye is already inferior due to it having a max rank of 3, and thus providing 4 less mod points than other generic auras. But it performs worse for the intended class as well?!?

 

Sniper rifles in this game are already in a bad spot. They don't fit the pace of the game very well with their generally slow fire rates and reload times. They draw from the smallest ammunition pool, and their ammunition also drops the least. They're designed for long range combat when the majority of combat in this game is short to mid range. The only real reason to take a sniper rifle in this game is to provide super high damage and gib high priority targets, which is questionable given that other weapons do this just fine without all the downsides.

 

What the heck is the reasoning behind this?

 

And before you say, "oh, it's a beta, mistakes are to be made" or something similar... hell no. It is no secret that Rifle Amp works on sniper rifles, and any mathematically competent person should have immediately noticed that this sniper specific mod provides an inferior bonus to a generic rifle mod which also affects snipers. There is NO excuse for this. There is also absolutely no reason for Dead Eye to provide less mod points, from any perspective ever. Sniper rifle users are already partially gimping themselves for using a weapon ill designed for the pace of the game, and you want to punish them further?

 

This makes absolutely no sense, at all, no matter what you say. You can't even call this a mistake.

Just wow, tested it myself this guy is 100 % accurate, wtf DE? You had the mod in "beta" as a leaked/unreleased mod, and it still wasn't enough? Man getting the feeling this was intentionall. I am also sad that snipers arent getting any love while bows are.