Taking Cover

[Xenogear]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned or not but I thought it should be addressed.

If there was some type of ingame mechanic where we can take cover, say pressing our backs against the wall or something similar and be able to aim over or around an obstacle while of course able to take fire ourselves would greatly improve the overall combat in this game, atleast imo. I'm not sure if its feasable since I have no idea how to code games lol.. But similar to other 3rd person shooters where if you move to one side of the obstacle, say the right side, the camera flips over to your right shoulder automatically, and vica versa.. In other words, Taking Cover just would be an all around awesome addition.

[Yorinar]

Agreed, it would be a great addition.

[SniperDiz]

"Sticky Cover" is something I want to avoid. If it ever was implemented, I don't want to attach to walls when I don't want to, nor do I want to see a "press X to cover" on the hud.

Sorry if this takes the wind out of your sails, but the game is fast paced combat and I'd like it to remain as such.

[PhoenixMercurous]

Many common questions are covered in sticked threads across the forums. If you have a question about something that should be basic or common knowledge look around first. The search fucntion is also handy.

https://forums.warfr...8-warframe-faq/ The answer to your question is at the bottom of that post.

TL;DR: Ninja's don't need cover, we just move too fast to be shot (this actually does work against Corpus on the large tilesets).

[Asbyn]

DE tried it early on, but ultimately didn't like it, so it's unlikely to ever be added. That said, you can already take cover behind objects — there's just no button to directly facilitate such a function.

[Venarge]

wouldnt work at all

[TheSuperTaco]

Many common questions are covered in sticked threads across the forums. If you have a question about something that should be basic or common knowledge look around first. The search fucntion is also handy.

https://forums.warfr...8-warframe-faq/ The answer to your question is at the bottom of that post.

TL;DR: Ninja's don't need cover, we just move too fast to be shot (this actually does work against Corpus on the large tilesets).

exactly, before you know it your gonna have grinner sawmen cutting you down before you can get off the cover. so PLEASE NO

[Xenogear]

Many common questions are covered in sticked threads across the forums. If you have a question about something that should be basic or common knowledge look around first. The search fucntion is also handy.

https://forums.warfr...8-warframe-faq/ The answer to your question is at the bottom of that post.

TL;DR: Ninja's don't need cover, we just move too fast to be shot (this actually does work against Corpus on the large tilesets).

Sorry for the double post then.. However I still think it would be a great addition and I'm sure others would agree.. Oh and for them to say "We just move too fast to be shot" Is absolutely ludacris.. for one distinct reason.

The bullet tracking.. It seems to me that more often then not, if your being shot at and your trying to dodge by "running" or "rolling" its not going to happen, your going to get hit because it appears to be almost impossible that once a bullet locks, unless you make it to "cover" somehow, your going to get hit, and you cannot dodge it simply by trying to move out of the way, this is where hideing behind cover would come into play.

I understand that it is probably NOT going to happen.. Which is sad, however its merely a suggestion.

[Xenogear]

wouldnt work at all

Please by all means explain?

[PhoenixMercurous]

Sorry for the double post then.. However I still think it would be a great addition and I'm sure others would agree.. Oh and for them to say "We just move too fast to be shot" Is absolutely ludacris.. for one distinct reason.

The bullet tracking.. It seems to me that more often then not, if your being shot at and your trying to dodge by "running" or "rolling" its not going to happen, your going to get hit because it appears to be almost impossible that once a bullet locks, unless you make it to "cover" somehow, your going to get hit, and you cannot dodge it simply by trying to move out of the way, this is where hideing behind cover would come into play.

I understand that it is probably NOT going to happen.. Which is sad, however its merely a suggestion.

I dodge shots by rolling frequently enough, and I've never seen bullets homing in on me unless they were missles. Corpus and Grineer are pretty bad shots as well; they have a hard time hitting me across the open tilesets even when I'm standing still. They still hit, but a lot less shots from each burst hits. I think you just experenced a lag induced bug (which there are a lot of) if you saw bullets homing in on you. I'm not aware of it being a feature.

A cover system would also require redesigning a lot of enemies. For example, grineer flameblades would have to go because an enemy that teleports behind you would be infuriating when combined with a cover system that takes a moment to get out of cover. The flameblade would stagger you out of cover before you could react. Can you imagine the QQ? If you're too new to warframe to know what flameblades are, think Captain Vor (1st boss) as a standard enemy with less health and damage per level. I've seen them spawn two or three at a time on Sedna. If you don't know who Captain Vor is I suggest you play more and get a better feel for the game.

Edited March 29, 2013 by PhoenixMercurous

[Xenogear]

I dodge shots by rolling frequently enough, and I've never seen bullets homing in on me unless they were missles. Corpus and Grineer are pretty bad shots as well; they have a hard time hitting me across the open tilesets even when I'm standing still. They still hit, but a lot less shots from each burst hits. I think you just experenced a lag induced bug (which there are a lot of) if you saw bullets homing in on you. I'm not aware of it being a feature.

A cover system would also require redesigning a lot of enemies. For example, grineer flameblades would have to go because an enemy that teleports behind you would be infuriating when combined with a cover system that takes a moment to get out of cover. The flameblade would stagger you out of cover before you could react. Can you imagine the QQ? If you're too new to warframe to know what flameblades are, think Captain Vor (1st boss) as a standard enemy with less health and damage per level. I've seen them spawn two or three at a time on Sedna. If you don't know who Captain Vor is I suggest you play more and get a better feel for the game.

Ya some mobs would definitely be annoying as hell, and I never said "homing bullets" lol.. It just appears that if your being shot at and you roll, as your rolling trying to dodge those bullets the majority, if not all of them still hit you, same with trying to run to cover, Then again alot of the warframes have really awesome escape moves :) Such as Ash's Invisibility or even Volts Energy Shield, so I suppose thats something to note as well, It very well comes down to the player not to get themselves into such situations for sure, or being able to get out of them

[Liacu]

A big no to a cover system. There are many games with a cover system so having Warframe without a cover system makes it even more unique. We're meant to be space ninjas who dodge bullets and speed through the battlefield instead of staying stationary in cover. I admit being fast doesn't give you much defense against bullets so we just need better dodge moves to be added into the game instead of adding a cover system. The devs added blocking which is a start although it doesn't really work very well at the moment.

The game already supports taking cover anyways and it works well for the most part.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Liacu

[Venarge]

Please by all means explain?

It would simply destroy the fluid run and gun. its not supposed to be a cover game.....

[Xenogear]

A big no to a cover system. There are many games with a cover system so having Warframe without a cover system makes it even more unique. We're meant to be space ninjas who dodge bullets and speed through the battlefield instead of staying stationary in cover. I admit being fast doesn't give you much defense against bullets so we just need better dodge moves to be added into the game instead of adding a cover system. The devs added blocking which is a start although it doesn't really work very well at the moment.

The game already supports taking cover anyways and it works well for the most part.

Ooo better dodge moves... maby like warframes that can go "poof" like a "blink" dodge... would be interesting to see what they would come up with as far as different dodge mechanisms..

The blocking looks pretty neat for sure, but your absolutely right when you say it doesnt work very well at the moment, you still take quite a bit of damage even tho it looks like your blocking the bullets as you block, I think its more taylored torwards melee type hits but thats something I havent tried yet as when I am in melee range I'm more focused on tearing threw the enemy asap rather then blocking.

As far as a cover system it seems quite a bit of people do disagree with it, I think it would just add to the style of gameplay instead of straight run/slash n gun everything in your path and see if you make it on the other side alive.. it would be more of a tactical approach. Then again someone brought to my attention some melee type enemys would be a big problem.

[PhoenixMercurous]

Ya some mobs would definitely be annoying as hell, and I never said "homing bullets" lol.. It just appears that if your being shot at and you roll, as your rolling trying to dodge those bullets the majority, if not all of them still hit you, same with trying to run to cover, Then again alot of the warframes have really awesome escape moves :) Such as Ash's Invisibility or even Volts Energy Shield, so I suppose thats something to note as well, It very well comes down to the player not to get themselves into such situations for sure, or being able to get out of them

I read "tracking bullets" as "homing bullets." Sorry about that. Also, sorry for thinking you were new here, I somehow missed the "initiate" tag above your name. Edit: The forum tag seems to be all over the place. My forum tag says gold initiate right now, it may have said silver initiate earlier today (I can't remember), and I'm a silver novice in game. Initiate is actually new, right? I got the order of novice and initiate mixed up I guess.

In reply to your next post, we have a block mechanic now, which lets you deflect bullets with your melee weapon at the cost of stamina. Its automapped to mouse button 4, so you may not have noticed. I don't have a mouse button 4, so I didn't notice until I was checking the control mappings after I saw a thread about blocking. Blocking isn't a dodge move but its similar in function.

What DE really needs to do is fix the enemies' near instant reaction time. The seem to have given enemies a turning rate so you can circle strafe some enemies, but it doesn't do much against Grineer at mid range where their bullet's travel time doesn't matter much nor does their terrible accuracy.

Edit 2: Adding a cover system to Warframe would also make it feel like Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer: Free to Play Edition to me. I like that this game is different than ME3 Multiplayer. Personally I want more parkor/ninja moves added to the game to make us super mobile rather than a cover system.

Edited March 29, 2013 by PhoenixMercurous

[Xenogear]

It would simply destroy the fluid run and gun. its not supposed to be a cover game.....

it would just give a different approach to missions, a more tactical approach rather then run n gun, its just more ways to play the game. Would you rather have a game that theres only one way to tackle missions over and over and over.. or some variety in the ways you approach missions?

[Venarge]

it would just give a different approach to missions, a more tactical approach rather then run n gun, its just more ways to play the game. Would you rather have a game that theres only one way to tackle missions over and over and over.. or some variety in the ways you approach missions?

If I simply want to do a run and gun and run through the levels and unfortunatly go into cover or whatever because the cover system is made like "if you go close to it, you go into cover" this simply stops the game flow.... If the cover actually would be good, ok, but i dont want to be interfered with in my playstyle ^^

[Kopikatsu]

The problem I have with the lack of cover is more that...when I try to aim while next to cover, the camera will often zoom in on the back of my Frame's head, so I can't even see anything...much less what I'm supposed to be shooting at.

If the 'run and gun' portion is so important, then why not just greatly increase the accuracy of all guns and remove ADS completely, with the exception being Sniper-class weapons? You know, like every early FPS ever.

[blackraver]

We got plenty of dodge moves, you can wall run, slide, flip, if you are using all these skills I promise that even with a base stats frame u can survive most enemies. I was running Uranus, Europa, Sedna, and Neptune without a shield mod, with ash. Just need to play to ur strengths. (I did have that sprint mod)

[Xenogear]

I read "tracking bullets" as "homing bullets." Sorry about that. Also, sorry for thinking you were new here, I somehow missed the "initiate" tag above your name. That's what, mastery rank 4? Well beyond "new."

In reply to your next post, we have a block mechanic now, which lets you deflect bullets with your melee weapon at the cost of stamina. Its automapped to mouse button 4, so you may not have noticed. I don't have a mouse button 4, so I didn't notice until I was checking the control mappings after I saw a thread about blocking. Blocking isn't a dodge move but its similar in function.

What DE really needs to do is fix the enemies' near instant reaction time. The seem to have given enemies a turning rate so you can circle strafe some enemies, but it doesn't do much against Grineer at mid range where their bullet's travel time doesn't matter much nor does their terrible accuracy.

Heh, no problem.

In my tests blocking almost does nothing in terms of reducing bullet damage, its extremely miniscule.. and this was on the first level being attacked by one person, if your being shot at by multiple mobs block really does nothing.

Enemies reaction time being lowered would definitely help alot, (like when they run up to the console and hit the alert button INSTANTLY and your trying to be stealthy )

Another reason taking cover would be a viable option is because when you "take cover" as of right now ingame, your warframe is very[size=3] susceptible to attacks coming from the right, left, and even above positions considering your warframe is not actually pressed up against what your trying to take cover behind.. You will still take fire.[/size]

Someone mentioned that they would hate to see "Press X to duck under cover" on the HUD - I couldnt agree more lol

Maby they could make it an option that you can turn off or on? Not sure if thats even possible haha

But again guys, this is a great debate and appreciate everyones feedback into the matter.

[Xenogear]

If I simply want to do a run and gun and run through the levels and unfortunatly go into cover or whatever because the cover system is made like "if you go close to it, you go into cover" this simply stops the game flow.... If the cover actually would be good, ok, but i dont want to be interfered with in my playstyle ^^

I couldnt agree more dude :) It would definitely have to be somewhat of an option more than a "omg i hit the wall now im in cover even tho i just wanted to run past the wall"

[JamnikPucek]

Cover system ruins dynamics of FPP shooters.

It is a console game invention that has unfortunatley made its way to PC games. It turns games where you have to move and keep active to games where you pop out, shoot, pop back in. A shooting gallery.

Can it work well? Sure. Is it a neccesary element? Not at all. But it completly changes the dynamic.

You already can take cover. You already can pop in and out from behind obstacles. The difference is that you actually need to do those actions yourself, not have them performed by a sticky cover system. There is no arbitrary "I am in cover so I cannot get hit" mechanic, nor is there a "I can see everything around the corner without acutally sticking my head out" thing (to a certain degree at least) both of these are also factors in gameplay dynamics.

Luckily, the devs seem to agree on this.

In most cases, Warframe favors mobility, adaptation or at the very least tries it best not to let you bunker down in one spot. You can still do that and there are weapons that area meant to help with that (Sniper Rifle, Semi-Auto Marksman Rifle) but you can do that well without an automatic cover system if you do it well yourself.

Adding a cover system would not add anything to that imho, neither would it add anything to more aggressive playstyles. The only thing it would do is encourage static, pop-in shooting gallery situations which get boring, very, very fast.

Edited March 29, 2013 by JamnikPucek

[Jackbnimble]

exactly, before you know it your gonna have grinner sawmen cutting you down before you can get off the cover. so PLEASE NO

Lol, those bastards cutting me down while my back is turned or when I'm trying to rez someone seems to be my number one cause of death. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who has issue with them.

[shoudra]

If I ever see a sticky cover system I hope it's only for stealth purposes. As it is the only time it makes sense to me. No on shooting though, I can run / slice / shoot using most cover already except when the pesky infinite spawns decide they want to spawn behind me and rockets...only thing I can never notice a telegraph for...that's a seperate issue though...

Note:IF they reintroduce this I hope it's a toggle otherwise I am going to be one sad space ninja

Edited March 29, 2013 by shoudra

[Xenogear]

Have the devs ev

Cover system ruins dynamics of FPP shooters.

It is a console game invention that has unfortunatley made its way to PC games. It turns games where you have to move and keep active to games where you pop out, shoot, pop back in. A shooting gallery.

Can it work well? Sure. Is it a neccesary element? Not at all. But it completly changes the dynamic.

You already can take cover. You already can pop in and out from behind obstacles. The difference is that you actually need to do those actions yourself, not have them performed by a sticky cover system. There is no arbitrary "I am in cover so I cannot get hit" mechanic, nor is there a "I can see everything around the corner without acutally sticking my head out" thing (to a certain degree at least) both of these are also factors in gameplay dynamics.

Luckily, the devs seem to agree on this.

Have the devs ever thought of it being a toggle option for people who enjoy that type of gameplay?

In other words, you toggle it on in your options menu, you have an option ingame to sticky to cover, toggle it off, you no longer have that option.

I honestly just think it adds to the variety of the way you can play the game. Having diversity is great!

Edited March 29, 2013 by Xenogear