The Dragon Nikana Shouldn't Be That Powerful

[NikolaiLev]

So, DE insists on making mastery rank directly correlate to power.  I don't think that's healthy for the game, as it reduces effective choices for endgame players immensely.  But it can be done well.  Just not like this.

 

The Dragon Nikana has about twice the damage of the normal Nikana, with bonuses to crit and stats to boot.  This is a little absurd.

 

I don't think direct upgrades should ever exist.  Sidegrades allow for much greater choice, and more interesting decisions regarding weapon loadout.  It'd be cool if the Dragon Nikana sacrificed status chance for raw damage, or so.

 

But if it's going to be an upgrade, it should only be a slight upgrade; having twice the damage just throws off the balance curve and leaves little choice for those who aesthetically prefer the simpler Nikana.

 

 

[ensignvidiot]

Nah

 

But seriously, take a look at the Magnus and vasto. Now look at the Akmagnus and Akvasto.

Things tend to jump sharply ... wait thats a bad analogy

 

OKAY, how about this:

 

Gorgon vs Wraith

Strun vs Wraith

Snipetron vs Vandal

Akfuris vs Dex

Braton vs Prime

 

its essentially the "____" upgrade all over again. only this time its called Dragon.

 

Edited April 11, 2014 by ensignvidiot

[DiddlyMcGee]

*cough* mastery 8 *cough*

[Xepharyx]

Take a look at *anything vs Soma for higher levels. There's a reason things are higher in damage than lower counterparts, but I see that as more of a design flaw in the game than anything else.

[Spiritofpower]

Dude, mastery 8. This is not a weapon for the unwashed unranked masses. You've gotta invest a decent amount of time to get this weapon, and DE wanted to make it worthwhile.

[killacam8806]

Its all up to choice really..you can chose to use what you think is over powered or you can chose not to...simple as that.

[shut]

+1 to OP. I get the "Mastery 8" thing, but let's face it, this is a shooting game. Stats should have an impact on gameplay due to PVE elements, but not such an enormous impact. Double damage is absurd.

 

I think the devs should stick with the route they once adhered to... the one in which "upgrades" had their own downsides. Weapons such as Fang Prime were better overall than their normal counterparts, but had certain downsides that restricted the weapon into a slightly different combat niche, losing out on certain advantages that the original one had (Read: allowing the original to stay as a viable option). That's how it should be.

[WARLOCKE]

So, DE insists on making mastery rank directly correlate to power.  I don't think that's healthy for the game, as it reduces effective choices for endgame players immensely.  But it can be done well.  Just not like this.

 

The Dragon Nikana has about twice the damage of the normal Nikana, with bonuses to crit and stats to boot.  This is a little absurd.

 

I don't think direct upgrades should ever exist.  Sidegrades allow for much greater choice, and more interesting decisions regarding weapon loadout.  It'd be cool if the Dragon Nikana sacrificed status chance for raw damage, or so.

 

But if it's going to be an upgrade, it should only be a slight upgrade; having twice the damage just throws off the balance curve and leaves little choice for those who aesthetically prefer the simpler Nikana

 

There is no such thing as power creep in a rpgish game.

[(PSN)The_LeGend_Ace]

I think the easy way to balance it is to keep it a dojo weapon only no platinum or market blueprint, let people farm that crazy amount of oxium and GI through the first nikana as well if they do that then the sword is worth the stats and if your saying that's overpowered then a lot of weapons need to be nerfed

[Calayne]

To face the complaint that melee weapons are not end-game viable, melee weapons have been given a facelift. 

 

Understandably, double the damage is debatable and seems overly large. But also consider the fact that Boltor Prime is almost double the damage as well, not to mention the other Primes which seem to have this trend. The Soma is a good example of a weapon that's commonly regarded as "OP", but DE has not really nerfed it all that much. The reason is simply because as you go higher in Mastery Rank, you need something that motivates you to keep going forward. I don't think a reskin cuts it. Not to mention, no one has tried it out yet, and melee really won't be as overpowered as ranged will.

 

The main difference between a high level gun and a high level sword is range: Assuming both can kill in one shot and one hit respectively, the sword is at a greater disadvantage. What that means is that, it's easier to mow down a large swathe of enemies with a Soma than it is for a Nikana to do the same, especially if enemies are spaced far away from one another, as is the habit.

 

Therefore, to make it worth making your way into a group of enemies before your buddies can mow everything before you down into little gibblets, your melee must be strong. Otherwise, there is no point.

 

Should it be double damage? Honestly, I don't know. But we should really try it out first, and see if it's really "Throwing off the balance curve" as much as you claim it is. Honestly, how many of you complain about the Lato being extremely weak? I love its aesthetics over most weapons in-game, but considering the level required to get it (Guns are many, many more times more powerful than the Lato), I won't complain.

 

There's just no point making a gripe with a sword, whose whole purpose is to close the distance and shred your enemies, in a world where there are guns and infinite range.

[ensignvidiot]

At the end of the day we are all forgetting one very basic thing about this weapon: everyone can get it.

 

You build the normal version of the sword through clantech. Then you buy the "upgrade" to "reforge" the weapon into a stronger form.

 

I kind of wish this system was applied to a lot of other weapons, take something 'good', and make it 'great' so it can hold its own with "endgame" gear.

 

Sure, forma is nice, but it doesnt modify the base stats (or the look) of the original peice of gear.

[wrongkoi]

To face the complaint that melee weapons are not end-game viable, melee weapons have been given a facelift. 

 

Understandably, double the damage is debatable and seems overly large. But also consider the fact that Boltor Prime is almost double the damage as well, not to mention the other Primes which seem to have this trend. The Soma is a good example of a weapon that's commonly regarded as "OP", but DE has not really nerfed it all that much. The reason is simply because as you go higher in Mastery Rank, you need something that motivates you to keep going forward. I don't think a reskin cuts it. Not to mention, no one has tried it out yet, and melee really won't be as overpowered as ranged will.

 

The main difference between a high level gun and a high level sword is range: Assuming both can kill in one shot and one hit respectively, the sword is at a greater disadvantage. What that means is that, it's easier to mow down a large swathe of enemies with a Soma than it is for a Nikana to do the same, especially if enemies are spaced far away from one another, as is the habit.

 

Therefore, to make it worth making your way into a group of enemies before your buddies can mow everything before you down into little gibblets, your melee must be strong. Otherwise, there is no point.

 

Should it be double damage? Honestly, I don't know. But we should really try it out first, and see if it's really "Throwing off the balance curve" as much as you claim it is. Honestly, how many of you complain about the Lato being extremely weak? I love its aesthetics over most weapons in-game, but considering the level required to get it (Guns are many, many more times more powerful than the Lato), I won't complain.

 

There's just no point making a gripe with a sword, whose whole purpose is to close the distance and shred your enemies, in a world where there are guns and infinite range.

To me, it's a lot more about the fun of the game than the efficiency with which I dispatch enemies. I just feel that perhaps with the existence of the dragon nikana, why not just scrap the regular one? Who the hell needs it at that point when there's just an infinitely better version? Thing about primes, is that you need to work to get them, which makes their improved stats a little more fair to me. But they were both the same price and I don't think if there are two weapons that cost as much as a frame that one should do double the damage of the other. Think if you spent 10 bucks and you got the nikana and you were so excited and then you found out, hidden in the marketplace, unbeknownst to you, lies a better version of that weapon you just bought. It isn't really fair. I don't care about how powerful it is; I care about the weakness it forces nikana to have.

[Calayne]

To me, it's a lot more about the fun of the game than the efficiency with which I dispatch enemies. I just feel that perhaps with the existence of the dragon nikana, why not just scrap the regular one? Who the hell needs it at that point when there's just an infinitely better version? Thing about primes, is that you need to work to get them, which makes their improved stats a little more fair to me. But they were both the same price and I don't think if there are two weapons that cost as much as a frame that one should do double the damage of the other. Think if you spent 10 bucks and you got the nikana and you were so excited and then you found out, hidden in the marketplace, unbeknownst to you, lies a better version of that weapon you just bought. It isn't really fair. I don't care about how powerful it is; I care about the weakness it forces nikana to have.

 

True, but what's the Mastery Rank of the Dragon Nikana? It would certainly be better if it were not purchasable from the market. Is it currently? If it were, then I think I see where you're coming from. In some sense, if Argon is needed for the Dragon Nikana, it's even less forgiving than the Prime parts, since Argon has a half-life. 

 

If it isn't, I defend the Dragon Nikana, on the condition that the Nikana itself is a much lower Mastery Rank melee weapon. If it were obtainable at MR 4 or so, perhaps even lower, that's understandable: 4 Mastery Ranks of the Nikana deserves an upgrade, since there are no Prime versions for it (assumed, of course).

[killacam8806]

Dude are you stupid or something?

first off i dont know you and people who insult another's intelligence are often the the so called stupid ones.that being said yes its up to choice and if you dont understand that then im sorry.

[Uniwolfacorn]

Hey guys, I don't mean to interupt but when the bug with both being called the same thing was up I bought the lesser one with Plat, if i upgrade it will the potato carry over? I just want to know if I should wait for my refund or not

[ensignvidiot]

Hey guys, I don't mean to interupt but when the bug with both being called the same thing was up I bought the lesser one with Plat, if i upgrade it will the potato carry over? I just want to know if I should wait for my refund or not

 

wait for the refund to be on the safe side.

[VScipii26]

There is no such thing as power creep in a rpgish game.

Power creep can exist in any game that receives at least semi-frequent updates.

[shut]

There is no such thing as power creep in a rpgish game.

 

2009. Full squad.

2010, post-buff. Damage in 2009 from similarly-leveled players would have been barely half of this. Full squad.

2014. Single player.

I rest my case.

Edited April 13, 2014 by SortaRandom

[Zanzibarr11]

2009. Full squad.

2014. Single player.

 

I rest my case.

 

just had to point out that there is a slight 70-ish level varience between the two...

[Warriorrogue]

2009. Full squad.

2014. Single player.

 

I rest my case.

With the level difference, if they went borderlands style, so large differences between 10 levels, this would not be a surprise.

[shut]

just had to point out that there is a slight 70-ish level varience between the two...

 

 

With the level difference, if they went borderlands style, so large differences between 10 levels, this would not be a surprise.

 

 

ITT: People who have not played maplestory and watched it devolve over the years.

People at the same level as the first image nowadays currently do roughly 5-10 times that amount of damage, depending on the amount of funding (and keep in mind, anyone who was able to deal more than 10000 damage in a single hit prior to the 2010 Big Bang update was generally deemed a god. Nowadays, the only people at that level who can't deal 10000 damage in a single hit are the ones who don't have weapons equipped).

 

Keep in mind also that the above image is most of a six-man squad of such "gods" attacking at once.

Edited April 11, 2014 by SortaRandom

[NikolaiLev]

*cough* mastery 8 *cough*

 

I really don't think mastery rank should equate to any power at all, much less such a ridiculous amount.

 

Take a look at *anything vs Soma for higher levels. There's a reason things are higher in damage than lower counterparts, but I see that as more of a design flaw in the game than anything else.

 

There is no reason to that.  It is a design flaw.

 

Its all up to choice really..you can chose to use what you think is over powered or you can chose not to...simple as that.

 

Except it's not a choice, because there's no reason to use something that's weaker.  And that's terrible.

 

+1 to OP. I get the "Mastery 8" thing, but let's face it, this is a shooting game. Stats should have an impact on gameplay due to PVE elements, but not such an enormous impact. Double damage is absurd.

 

I think the devs should stick with the route they once adhered to... the one in which "upgrades" had their own downsides. Weapons such as Fang Prime were better overall than their normal counterparts, but had certain downsides that restricted the weapon into a slightly different combat niche, losing out on certain advantages that the original one had (Read: allowing the original to stay as a viable option). That's how it should be.

 

Agreed.

[Koloricsi]

Honestly, i see a lot more potential in upgrades rather than sidegrades, especially when they are bound to mastery level. You can get any weapon with money but you can clearly see a player's progression when you see which state of the upgrades he has, let's say if a thing can be upgraded 10 times and it looks a bit better every level.

[Warriorrogue]

ITT: People who have not played maplestory and watched it devolve over the years.

People at the same level as the first image currently do roughly 5-10 times that amount of damage, depending on funding (and keep in mind, anyone who was able to deal more than 10000 damage in a single hit prior to the 2010 Big Bang update was generally deemed a god).

If you'd put that there, that'd be explained.

No, I've never played maplestory, and never have planned to, and didn't even know what it looked like until now.

There was a reason I'd put an if.

[Arunafeltz]

I wouldn't mind so much if there were more melee weapons in the top-tier