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Fan Unified Stealth / Ai Overhaul Ideas Thread.

Evariskitsune

By Evariskitsune,
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Evariskitsune

Evariskitsune

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I'm fairly certain that many of us see this as a necessity, and that the next 2.0 overhaul should likely be stealth or story.  But here I'm going to talk about stealth, AI interaction, and overall "Theme." Overall in the forums there are touches here and there, of a number of things which could work together. 

 

We are lacking;

AI: 

- Distinction in attack patterns between enemy units.  Corpus crewmen act the same as Elite crewmen the same as Greneer Lancers the same as every other gun-wielding mob.  Greneer butchers act the same as Infested chargers.  etc.

- AI tactics.  As with the above, the Corpus are described as strategic, so their tactics should reflect this.  Greneer fight through overwhelming numbers; have them try to surround and flank their targets.  Infested are okay here. 

- Several boss overhauls in both layout, dynamics, and AI difficulty. 

- Cameras doing something useful like setting off an alarm.  Turrets not ceasing to function without cameras. 

- Suicidal / dumb AI, doesn't try to find cover or run when allies are dying left and right.  Or run without good reason. 

- AI acting on an individual basis instead of acting as a squad / group.

 

Theme:

- Above AI differences.

- Ship layouts

- AI spawn positions, aka why aren't crewmen -crewing- something?  At stations, etc. 

- AI factions should be split into sub factions based on ideals and leadership.  Ex. Alad V being disliked by the rest of Corpus.

- AI actions.  Generally speaking things seem lifeless, not even militaristic.  Patrols should be organized, marches should be led, etc.

 

Stealth: 

- Visual detection revamp is needed.  AI spot me as easily in the dark in a dark blue warframe as in a shiny prime warframe with gold/white. 

- Audio detection revamp, again. 

- Rewarding stealth.  We're supposed to be space ninjas, so why are we running&gunning all the time, and why do our scores depend so much on damage inflicted while stealth goes unrewarded?

- Cover system.  It should be optional. (and could be implemented in the same manner as stances.)  But allowing for a system to minimize visual detection would lend itself to stealth greatly. 

- multiple paths to objective.  Again... having only one, heavily guarded route to the objective leaves you without options and kinda kills a chance for stealth. 

- Melee stealth kills should be auto-kill.  It does you no good if your target is able to keep moving and auto-alerts everything around them.  It also makes no sense to pierce their jugular and aorta, or cut them in half, or decapitate them, just for them to keep walking. 

- More stealth oriented Warframes and more options for stealth in general for each frame. 

 

 

Of course, I know I'm missing some things.  So I'd like both to have assistance in expanding on this, but also share your ideas, so that we can culminate a commonality among this.  I'd like a healthy debate to be shared so perhaps we can, as a fan community, come to an agreement as to what we want to see. 

 

Concepts of note:  (work in progress, for now I've only added what I've seen lately.)

Stealth Ideas: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/219210-some-ideas-about-stealth/

Dynamic Cover system: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/218585-dynamic-cover-system-based-on-meleeaura-mods/

Corpus Overhaul: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/207583-krauserlols-ultimate-corpus-update-threat-the-corpus-shall-rise/

Sub-Factions: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/216718-sub-factions/

Stealth/sniper warframe: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/209192-warframe-concept-the-fox/

Infested Overhaul: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/178662-infested-20-new-units-and-improvements-to-old-ones-wip/

Stealth Feedback megthread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/3930-stealth-feedback-suggestions-thread/

 

 

Would love to have more concepts that I could add to this page as a centralization of this overall ideal. 

Edited by Evariskitsune
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unknow99

unknow99

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An awesome thread in the making...

 

The enemies should have more group strategies, because they seem to act individually at the moment. (just saw a hint of organised army when 4 grineer aimed me and stood behind their bombard leader)

Commanders & other high ranked soldiers should actually give orders, and some troops should walk step by step like an army when undetected.

 

We also need more idle animations that could help giving more life to the game (as I stealth run, I see no interaction between them,they just get stuck together and I have to wait for decades before entering a door silently)....

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Evariskitsune

Evariskitsune

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An awesome thread in the making...

 

The enemies should have more group strategies, because they seem to act individually at the moment. (just saw a hint of organised army when 4 grineer aimed me and stood behind their bombard leader)

Commanders & other high ranked soldiers should actually give orders, and some troops should walk step by step like an army when undetected.

 

We also need more idle animations that could help giving more life to the game (as I stealth run, I see no interaction between them,they just get stuck together and I have to wait for decades before entering a door silently)....

Thank you for the additions, I very much agree.

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Xardis

Xardis

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Stealth should be rewarding.

What I meen is that if you do capture mission in "rambo" style: you are more likely to fail because from the moment the alarms goes on target can start his escape; should be less rewarded because everyone knows that you took the targets - you are multiple time on camera, moa recording etc. The next thing is XP/affinity - every mission shuld have diffrent system of giving you that XP - if I solo play Loki with melee only, without killing anyone except the boss at War on Mars I feel that I should get the same or even more XP than the other Tenno that killed him with raising alarms and killing everyone at his path. Maybe someone will tell that its just "style play" but as was mentioned earlier we were soppose to be space ninjas not space rambo.

And it would be nice if DE decides that the next update (hopefully sooner than U14) would focus on stealth.

As for camouflage idea I totaly support it. I just wish that the color packs could have credit prize (about 100-200K credits each excluding event colors).

 

Edit: PS, Maybe thats why the Stalker is hunting for Tenno who has waked away from their "ninjalike" rules.

Edited by Xardis
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Drunken_Child

Drunken_Child

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My first thoughts that come to mind was secondary paths rewarding stealth and visibility. To reward stealth you can have bonuses for not being dectected and possibly add a non lethal option. I am thinking similar to Deus Ex with the ghost and smooth operator xp bonuses. It does not have to be xp or credits to be bonuses but maybe rewards 1.5 all resources, credits and or xp gained.

As for visibility it should not be based off colors because that puts primes to a disadvantage but rather shadows.

With secondary paths I am again thinking back to Deus Ex. There should be a direct brazzen approach, hidden never engage route and a wait for your prey approach from behind cover. We should also think in three dimensions. Form som reason I keep thinking back to Deus Ex though I never finished any of em. But any I go back to the first level or Deus Ex Revloution (not prologue), when you could take a overt path, sneak past or climb the crates to completely circumvent direct combat.

And that is my feed back.

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Evariskitsune

Evariskitsune

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My first thoughts that come to mind was secondary paths rewarding stealth and visibility. To reward stealth you can have bonuses for not being dectected and possibly add a non lethal option. I am thinking similar to Deus Ex with the ghost and smooth operator xp bonuses. It does not have to be xp or credits to be bonuses but maybe rewards 1.5 all resources, credits and or xp gained.

As for visibility it should not be based off colors because that puts primes to a disadvantage but rather shadows.

With secondary paths I am again thinking back to Deus Ex. There should be a direct brazzen approach, hidden never engage route and a wait for your prey approach from behind cover. We should also think in three dimensions. Form som reason I keep thinking back to Deus Ex though I never finished any of em. But any I go back to the first level or Deus Ex Revloution (not prologue), when you could take a overt path, sneak past or climb the crates to completely circumvent direct combat.

And that is my feed back.

1. Yes.

 

2.  It's supposed to put primes at a disadvantage.  Or rather makes prime frames more situational instead of perfect for any job.  It makes a player choose between stealth or a bit more power.  

 

3.  Pretty much.

Edited by Evariskitsune
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Drunken_Child

Drunken_Child

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My first thoughts that come to mind was secondary paths rewarding stealth and visibility. To reward stealth you can have bonuses for not being dectected and possibly add a non lethal option. I am thinking similar to Deus Ex with the ghost and smooth operator xp bonuses. It does not have to be xp or credits to be bonuses but maybe rewards 1.5 all resources, credits and or xp gained.

As for visibility it should not be based off colors because that puts primes to a disadvantage but rather shadows.

With secondary paths I am again thinking back to Deus Ex. There should be a direct brazzen approach, hidden never engage route and a wait for your prey approach from behind cover. We should also think in three dimensions. For some reason I keep thinking back to Deus Ex though I never finished any of em. But any I go back to the first level or Deus Ex Revloution (not prologue), when you could take a overt path, sneak past or climb the crates to completely circumvent direct combat.

And that is my feed back.

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Evariskitsune

Evariskitsune

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My first thoughts that come to mind was secondary paths rewarding stealth and visibility. To reward stealth you can have bonuses for not being dectected and possibly add a non lethal option. I am thinking similar to Deus Ex with the ghost and smooth operator xp bonuses. It does not have to be xp or credits to be bonuses but maybe rewards 1.5 all resources, credits and or xp gained.

As for visibility it should not be based off colors because that puts primes to a disadvantage but rather shadows.

With secondary paths I am again thinking back to Deus Ex. There should be a direct brazzen approach, hidden never engage route and a wait for your prey approach from behind cover. We should also think in three dimensions. For some reason I keep thinking back to Deus Ex though I never finished any of em. But any I go back to the first level or Deus Ex Revloution (not prologue), when you could take a overt path, sneak past or climb the crates to completely circumvent direct combat.

And that is my feed back.

So... was the double post intentional or is there more feedback?  Just curious. 

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unknow99

unknow99

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So... was the double post intentional or is there more feedback?  Just curious. 

Double post, but for the palette idea I don't feel it really good : yes,walking in the shadows with a flashy pink armor and not be detected  might get you in trouble,but don't forget that players who didn't play during events since their beginning or don't have enough level to trade for plats and then buy one of 90% of the palettes they don't have access to will be punished. (I,for instance, have just the Halloween,Easter & one column of classic palette unlocked,and I only plan to spend my few plats for slots.)

Stealth should not be too restricting. An harder & smarter way,yes, but not only for smoke palette owners. (or reduce their price a lot)

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Evariskitsune

Evariskitsune

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Double post, but for the palette idea I don't feel it really good : yes,walking in the shadows with a flashy pink armor and not be detected  might get you in trouble,but don't forget that players who didn't play during events since their beginning or don't have enough level to trade for plats and then buy one of 90% of the palettes they don't have access to will be punished. (I,for instance, have just the Halloween,Easter & one column of classic palette unlocked,and I only plan to spend my few plats for slots.)

Stealth should not be too restricting. An harder & smarter way,yes, but not only for smoke palette owners. (or reduce their price a lot)

You've got good 'stealth' colors (namely, muted blue) in the basic palette you get for free.  It would just make people decide between stealth of fashion. 

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Xardis

Xardis

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Double post, but for the palette idea I don't feel it really good : yes,walking in the shadows with a flashy pink armor and not be detected  might get you in trouble,but don't forget that players who didn't play during events since their beginning or don't have enough level to trade for plats and then buy one of 90% of the palettes they don't have access to will be punished. (I,for instance, have just the Halloween,Easter & one column of classic palette unlocked,and I only plan to spend my few plats for slots.)

Stealth should not be too restricting. An harder & smarter way,yes, but not only for smoke palette owners. (or reduce their price a lot)

Yep, exacly the point. For colors of youre loadout be effective they have to be avalible to everyone for a credit prize. Event packs costs 1 credit because in order to get them you have to be online during the event.I think they shuld cost around 50-200K credits. Same as you I have onlu basic one column and event packs. As to the Primes, all primes should "pay" for their power in stealth aspect. The exception would be warframes concentraded on stealth (Ash, Banshee, Loki and Nyx). Since one of theve have prime counterpart DE should think about their appearance in the future to be more stealth friendly.

Edited by Xardis
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Evariskitsune

Evariskitsune

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Good to see my thread in here heh, for ideas i have non that you guys have already suggested. Other tan the next big Update to not just focus on stealth but also the Corpus. Now if you excuse me i got a LOT of work to do in my thread.

 

Keep on the good work!

Well we need a theme / AI / stealth update, but generally speaking I think it all fits together as a stealth 2.0 principle. 

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unknow99

unknow99

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Haven't seen a "stealth megathread."  Then again, I haven't used the search function for such a thing either.  But if it's there, can you share the link?

Well then, fellow, I shall give thee...

The Ultimate oldest & most relevant stealth thread !!! :

 

                             §

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/3930-stealth-feedback-suggestions-thread/

                             §

Edited by unknow99
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Evariskitsune

Evariskitsune

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Well then, fellow, I shall give thee...

The Ultimate oldest & most relevant stealth thread !!! :

 

                             §

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/3930-stealth-feedback-suggestions-thread/

                             §

Thank you for the link, added to the OP.  

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