Grineer Shipyard Explorafun: : Feedback, Suggestion, Glitch Report

[Kinperor]

Hello,

 

With the coming of this tenth new tile set (the Shipyard) comes the continuation of my Explorafun threads in order to help the Design team to improve their level design. Quick reminders about the reports: TBF stands for "To Be Fixed" and TBC stands for "To Be Considered", the former being an error in the map and the latter being a suggestion to improve the map. Sometimes I also just post stuff I really liked and doesn't require changes.

 

General feedback: I haven't visited it that much (I was hunting for stances, you see), but what I've seen I like. The only issue I have is that sometimes it's really more reminiscent from the asteroid instead of the new stand alone map it's supposed to be. I'm also somewhat perplexed by how certain area are very broken down. I have an example in mind, where a tram is just sitting sideway in the tracks, with whatever was inside it turned to green rumble. I mean, I don't expect the Grineer's 'Mordor' to be squicky clean, but seeing so much decay and destruction feels weird. I do think that that's more in Earth's theme to have the Grineer installations break down, not the source of their naval (space?) domination, which should realistically be maintained in at least working condition, without being OSHA compliant.

 

As a side note, I really like the back ground for this tile set, as seen here. The whole landscape looks delectably grim. Tho I was kinda hoping to see the area where Galleons were built (maybe I didn't visit enough).

 

If the theme of the Grineer being really bad at cleaning up their mess sticks around, I am hoping that at some point we can see the crashed hull of a Galleon which failed to take off for long. Wouldn't it be a great sight? Just the destroyed frame of a broken Galleon, left to rust under the rain as it collapsed on itself. It would be a great deal of work, certainly, but a great eye candy as well. 

 

Anyway, moving on to stuff I noticed in the map, if you don't mind: 

 

 

#1 TBF: Cryopod's square buff.

 

           As you can see I casted Warcry near the Cryopod, and now it has a square box. I don't recall seeing this happen like that in other maps.

 

 

 

#2 TBF: "Ship integrity compromised".

 

           Speaks for itself. Unless of course Ceres is actually a planetary Fomorian in disguise.

 

 

 

#3 TBF: Flamethrower with no cue.

 

           In red, a flamethrower which sporadically light up, without any warning. While I get the environment is supposed to be dangerous, it's somewhat annoying to be burned out of the blue. I think it would be nice if we had like a pilot light or something just before it went off. In the purple square, a really annoying Osprey I couldn't reach and who taunted me.

 

 

 

#4 TBF: Oddly shadowy locker.

 

           Speaks for itself. Located in the secret-ish area of a small locker room.

 

 

 

#5 TBF: Terrain clipping.

 

           Speaks for itself. Just a random bit of metal plowing into a pipe.

 

 

 

#6 TBC: Sunken props.

 

           It seems pretty clear to me that this set up was really deliberate, and I don't think it will be completely revamped, but I still have to say it's pretty weird to see the tram and box sunken like that in rock. I think it would be an easy to fix to at least cover it with that toxic sludge. That, or redo the extraction so that there isn't a tram sinking into solid rock.

 

 

 

#7 TBF: Texture infighting.

 

           That floor is subject to texture flickering due to texture seemingly on the same level. I've noticed the same issue on the other rail-entrance of the tile highlighted in red (which my Valkyr is showing her back to).

 

 

 

#8 TBF: Texture infighting and improper lighting.

 

           Upper rectangle shows a somewhat too shadowy piece of the wall. Lower rectangle highlights some texture that was subject to flickering (as above in #7) depending on the angle of the camera.

 

 

 

That's all for now. I haven't visited the shipyard that much, but I noticed a couple more stuff I'll comment on later. 

[Kinperor]

#9 TBF: Hole in map.

 

           Speaks for itself.

 

 

#10 TBF: Invisibile obstacle.

 

           My Nekros would block where he is currently standing whenever I tried to walk forward after wall running up the ladder on the silo's side. Somewhat grating if I want to reach that secret area.

 

 

#11 TBF: Terrain texture clipping.

 

           Speaks for itself. I'm not sure if the rock part is part of the same tile or something. The left rectangle I am certain it's all in that tile.

 

 

#12 TBC: Murky water change.

 

           That puddle of water would damage my health directly, but it's not well communicated at all. I mean, yeah, the water is murky, but that doesn't mean anything is up. I've seen this other spot which has some yellow... fluid, which obviously stands out without clashing too much with the environment. Alternatively, add a green glow. The idea is to have the player at least have a doubt that something is up, grey water in the middle of a grey environment doesn't scream "DANGER" to me, not even a whisper.

 

 

#13 TBF: Weird shadow.

 

           Speaks for itself.

 

 

#14 TBF: Pointlessly hard to access area.

 

           It occurred to me that there is something up there, and I reached the secret area, but the whole climb up could be streamlined. There's barely any straight and reliable surface to go vertical. 

 

 

#15 TBC: Secret room missed occasion.

 

           Suggestion: I thought it was a shame that there wasn't any access to a locker room from there, it looked just like the right place. First you would jump into the green square, then just walk along the green arrow into a secret area. Right now it instantly tele you back to where you were, even if you didn't touch the pit.

[[DE]Skree]

 

#14 TBF: Pointlessly hard to access area.

 

           It occurred to me that there is something up there, and I reached the secret area, but the whole climb up could be streamlined. There's barely any straight and reliable surface to go vertical. 

 

As usual thanks for the continued bug reports with the tilesets Kinperor, your threads are a boon to the LDs :)

 

Re #14, Yeah, its probably one of the most challenging secret spots, it was fairly streamlined until a tectonic event of some sort occurred.

Did some tweaking behind the scenes to make things a bit easier, can still use work but once changes go live it should be a bit better. I have some other plans for that room, but can't say much about that yet.

 

Imho I try to reserve 'hammer-over-the-head' hints for critical-path traversal rather than secret areas unless necessary. If a subtle environmental detail like a flickering light or shower of sparks draws the eye, a 'secret area look here' white paint mark doesnt have to.

 

Ideally most issues can be addressed with lightweight gameplay tweaks rather than art changes that may bloat the patch size. (esp. for off-the-beaten path areas that may not be widely played)

 

It does raise a good point about risk vs reward for secret areas, definitely don't want a missing or lackluster reward for a tough spot. Im an explorer myself, and when I get somewhere I feel proud of, its nice to get a nod, but nicer to get a cat candy.

 

tldr; In addition to fixing some other bugs mentioned, I adjusted some collision there to help make traversal a bit easier! :)

Keep the reports coming!

Edited April 24, 2014 by [DE]Skree

[Boatsniper]

Imho I try to reserve 'hammer-over-the-head' hints for critical-path traversal rather than secret areas unless necessary. If a subtle environmental detail like a flickering light or shower of sparks draws the eye, a 'secret area look here' white paint mark doesnt have to.

 

[...]

 

It does raise a good point about risk vs reward for secret areas, definitely don't want a missing or lackluster reward for a tough spot. Im an explorer myself, and when I get somewhere I feel proud of, its nice to get a nod, but nicer to get a cat candy.

If I may post a video regarding this...

 

Earth, Ceres, Phobos, Jupiter, and every open-ended tileset all contain a lot of invisible walls and teleport pits that, quite frankly, shouldn't be there. That is wasted map space; space that could be used for secret areas or an Easter egg. Instead, the screen blacks out, and the player is back on the "safe" portion on the map.

 

Could you look at these maps and expand them a bit? Remove some invisible walls and put something in its place?

[Kinperor]

As usual thanks for the continued bug reports with the tilesets Kinperor, your threads are a boon to the LDs :)

 

Re #14, Yeah, its probably one of the most challenging secret spots, it was fairly streamlined until a tectonic event of some sort occurred.

Did some tweaking behind the scenes to make things a bit easier, can still use work but once changes go live it should be a bit better. I have some other plans for that room, but can't say much about that yet.

 

Imho I try to reserve 'hammer-over-the-head' hints for critical-path traversal rather than secret areas unless necessary. If a subtle environmental detail like a flickering light or shower of sparks draws the eye, a 'secret area look here' white paint mark doesnt have to.

 

Ideally most issues can be addressed with lightweight gameplay tweaks rather than art changes that may bloat the patch size. (esp. for off-the-beaten path areas that may not be widely played)

 

It does raise a good point about risk vs reward for secret areas, definitely don't want a missing or lackluster reward for a tough spot. Im an explorer myself, and when I get somewhere I feel proud of, its nice to get a nod, but nicer to get a cat candy.

 

tldr; In addition to fixing some other bugs mentioned, I adjusted some collision there to help make traversal a bit easier! :)

Keep the reports coming!

 

Hey again Skree, pleasure to help.

 

I'm just a bit perplex, why did you comment on the cues for secret areas? Was it in connection to #14? Cause I was only referring to how it's hard to physically get up there, spotting the secret room went A-OK, the cues were there, even tho the climb was arduous, but that was fixed. 

 

Actually, most of the secret areas I found in Ceres were top-notch all around, and I've seen about 4-5.

 

 

If I may post a video regarding this...

 

Earth, Ceres, Phobos, Jupiter, and every open-ended tileset all contain a lot of invisible walls and teleport pits that, quite frankly, shouldn't be there. That is wasted map space; space that could be used for secret areas or an Easter egg. Instead, the screen blacks out, and the player is back on the "safe" portion on the map.

 

Could you look at these maps and expand them a bit? Remove some invisible walls and put something in its place?

 

This kind of feedback is too general. 

 

If you want to suggest some different use of space in the maps, please head to the appropriate Explorafun thread (link in my profile) and post specific example of things that can be changed. Broad feedback like that can hardly be used. 

[[DE]Skree]

Hey again Skree, pleasure to help.

 

I'm just a bit perplex, why did you comment on the cues for secret areas? Was it in connection to #14? Cause I was only referring to how it's hard to physically get up there, spotting the secret room went A-OK, the cues were there, even tho the climb was arduous, but that was fixed. 

 

Actually, most of the secret areas I found in Ceres were top-notch all around, and I've seen about 4-5.

 

Aside from the middle part where it required wallclimb on an irregular surface (and did indeed need some love), the other bits were fairly flat but unclear (dimly lit or deceivingly textured).

Subbed in some volumetric collision rather than mesh, which should make ascending a tad less clumsy. (there's quite a lot of flat geo in there, it's just very dark, which is why I was considering (and then mentioned) white paint marks for it.

[Boatsniper]

This kind of feedback is too general. 

 

If you want to suggest some different use of space in the maps, please head to the appropriate Explorafun thread (link in my profile) and post specific example of things that can be changed. Broad feedback like that can hardly be used. 

Invisible walls and teleport pits are literally everywhere, and since they're invisible, taking screenshots is kind of meaningless. Go to any Shipyard or Forest tileset and just start climbing on things (Valkyr is best for this). If you think you should be able to walk on something, anything, and the game stops you, it's a telltale sign of uninspired design.

 

If a player falls down a hole, the game shouldn't teleport them out of it (Phobos). If the player climbs onto a a building, the game shouldn't stop them (Shipyard). If the player wants to cross the room through the rafters, an invisible wall shouldn't block their ascent half way up the wall (Corpus Outpost).

[LGear]

As an explorer, I don't think I have enough likes for this thread. Good work Kinperor!

 

Also, I've also managed to reach the very top of that secret area. However, I was trying to get to the side areas shown on the map, but for some reason I've found no paths going to said locations, unless I missed something.

[traficonserv]

can I report this here?

it's on Dark Sector Seimeni

 

it's about the moving cryopod train thing.

 

 

so I was on the rail.

when the train come, I got stuck.

I have to wait for the train to move again.

 

Edited April 25, 2014 by traficonserv

[KoshLovesYou]

Kinda surprised all that was up there was a big orange fan.

[unknow99]

Aside from the middle part where it required wallclimb on an irregular surface (and did indeed need some love), the other bits were fairly flat but unclear (dimly lit or deceivingly textured).

Subbed in some volumetric collision rather than mesh, which should make ascending a tad less clumsy. (there's quite a lot of flat geo in there, it's just very dark, which is why I was considering (and then mentioned) white paint marks for it.

I know it's a bit off topic, but kudos for your Alad V performance in the previous prime... :)

[notionphil]

+1 Kinperor...that's a good deal of work/fun :)

[Kinperor]

Holy response flood batman; 

 

 

Aside from the middle part where it required wallclimb on an irregular surface (and did indeed need some love), the other bits were fairly flat but unclear (dimly lit or deceivingly textured).

Subbed in some volumetric collision rather than mesh, which should make ascending a tad less clumsy. (there's quite a lot of flat geo in there, it's just very dark, which is why I was considering (and then mentioned) white paint marks for it.

 

Gotcha. I agree that the white paint is not needed. 

 

 

Invisible walls and teleport pits are literally everywhere, and since they're invisible, taking screenshots is kind of meaningless. Go to any Shipyard or Forest tileset and just start climbing on things (Valkyr is best for this). If you think you should be able to walk on something, anything, and the game stops you, it's a telltale sign of uninspired design.

 

If a player falls down a hole, the game shouldn't teleport them out of it (Phobos). If the player climbs onto a a building, the game shouldn't stop them (Shipyard). If the player wants to cross the room through the rafters, an invisible wall shouldn't block their ascent half way up the wall (Corpus Outpost).

 

You're completely missing the point of this thread. If you are astute enough you will notice that I do not just post things like "there's abnormal dark spots all over this map, fix it". Hence why I think posting your kind of "feedback" here is irrelevant. 

 

You can make a new thread or you can bother to actually take pictures of whatever is bothering you, including invisible ceilings or walls (the items are invisible, but not their location). A couple invisible items were moved or adjusted following one of my suggestion. Additionally, a few new secret room which were included following my feedback on where there should be some loot.

 

It's just lazy to give the designers the responsibility of finding what is annoying you and then have them find a way to fix it without any output other than "I don't like something in the map". I don't care how widespread a bug or feature is, specify what you are talking about when you are in my threads or open your own thread. 

 

 

As an explorer, I don't think I have enough likes for this thread. Good work Kinperor!

 

Also, I've also managed to reach the very top of that secret area. However, I was trying to get to the side areas shown on the map, but for some reason I've found no paths going to said locations, unless I missed something.

 

+1 Kinperor...that's a good deal of work/fun :)

 

Thanks for the kind words.

 

 

can I report this here?

it's on Dark Sector Seimeni

 

it's about the moving cryopod train thing.

 

 

so I was on the rail.

when the train come, I got stuck.

I have to wait for the train to move again.

 

 

You can post it here, but please number your reports in the future. 

Edited April 25, 2014 by Kinperor

[NoSpax]

*bump*

 

You are forgetting the DETACHING HEAD from Bondage Bob when playing Defense on Ceres.

This happens when the pod moves along the rail.

 

Also, the "NO HEADS" thing must be a running gag at DE right now..

The Spectre misses their heads in the Codex too.

[Kinperor]

*bump*

 

You are forgetting the DETACHING HEAD from Bondage Bob when playing Defense on Ceres.

This happens when the pod moves along the rail.

 

Also, the "NO HEADS" thing must be a running gag at DE right now..

The Spectre misses their heads in the Codex too.

 

I haven't encountered that bug personally, ergo I didn't report it. I can't be everywhere.

 

-----

 

More reports:

 

#16 TBF: Ancient snobbishness (pathing issue for Ancients)

 

           I have no idea why, but the Ancients just won't jump down to where my Hydroid is. The end result was, me and my team was bulked up on the other side of the tunnel and fighting Infested there, but out of all the mobs who spawned there only the 'small' Infested would jump down and cross the tunnel, resulting in a group of ancient who stayed there after spawning for seemingly no reasons. They only reacted to Excal jumping on the tramwagon (far left rectangle).

 

 

#17 TBF: Charger trap.

 

           Speaks for itself. The charger missed the makeshift ramp and wouldn't come out of his own volition.

[NoSpax]

Note: All these happen during "Ceres - Seimeni" - Dark Sector in Shipyard Tileset.

edit: Since it is the same tileset but technically DS , I'll follow the rules of OP and number them.

 

#18 TBF: Detaching head from Bondage Bob

 

just stare into the pod, when it is moving.

 

 

 

#19 TBF: "Color Correction?" - "Oh, just paint it red".

 

Another bug is with the color correction (and / or lighting) in the very same mission. The picture above was taken with "Color Correction" off.

It seems to be allergic to blue or blends them to red.

 

- Energy pickups turn black. During a flash they turn red  - turn off CC to see them as they are.

- Rifle ammo pickups turn white.

- Purple and violet energy colors for the melee turn white or with an "ugly" purple to white gradient.

- Cryopod-Energycolor turns red, but is blue in default

- Warframe BODY colors turn red. A blue Mag becomes red sometimes.

- Credit pickups turn red.

 

Example:

 

 

 

Here is the sword trail thing: "Farbkorrektur" means "Color Correction"

 

How its supposed to look like:

 

How not to:

 

# 20 TBF: A.I. Pathfinding Errors - A.I. goes idle.

 

In the same misson, enemies go AFK for a smoke.

Sometimes they get stuck in wierd places. Happens 2 times of 5.

 

late edit: Wrapped all pictures in spoiler-tags

Edited May 1, 2014 by Sypheal

[Kinperor]

Thanks for the reports, however a couple of points:

 

First: Please use the

tag for your picture.

 

Second: When taking pictures where the location of what you are looking at is relevant, don't zoom in on the location, it's make it pointlessly hard to locate and fix for the designers.

 

Third: I'm not sure that #19 belongs here. Do you have these issues on other maps or it's only on the shipyard? As for the #20, please add a screenshot, I fail to see how the information submitted is enough for the designers to act on the issue you mentioned.  

[Kinperor]

Report post: Still alive edition.

 

#21 TBF: Mob traps. 

 

           I noticed a lot of Infested trapping themselves by falling either on the rocky area on the bottom left square, or by falling where that charger is in the upper right square.

 

 

#22 TBF: Map hole.

 

           Speaks for itself.

 

 

#23 TBF: Mob derp.

 

           Mobs try to run through the rail with an alarming frequency, even with Grineer. Defense tile, if it wasn't clear.

 

 

#24 TBF: Mob trap.

 

           Speaks for itself. I don't play against Grineer enough to notice whether it's as widespread or frequent as the previous report.

 

 

#25 TBF: Sky box glitch.

 

           Speaks for itself. Not sure what is going on here exactly.

 

 

#26 TBF: Hole in teleport carpet.

 

           Speaks for itself. Thankfully it was energy. Imagine if it was a resource. It could be an Orokin Cell! - shudders -

 

 

----- 

 

Cause for hiatus is mainly due to old image hoster kicking the bucket. I decided to just use Imgur instead. 

[Kinperor]

Couple more stuff:

 

#27 TBF: Map holes. (3) 

 

           Speaks for itself. All on the defense/interception tile. Orange arrow highlights secondary position of defense objective on the third pic, for orientation purpose.

 

 

 

#28 TBC: Crate that is just slightly too high.

 

           This crate is just slightly too high to be jumped over, as shown in the picture. It would allow some quick maneuvering to replace it with a flatter crate. I think I've seen a couple of props that would be the right size, but I'm not sure.

 

 

 

#29 TBF: Clipping item.

 

           Speaks for itself. Barely worth mentioning.

 

 

 

#30 TBC: Ninja accessibility increase.

 

           I regularly feel annoyance on this map because it is not easy to reach the highlighted balcony with "straight" parkour, straight meaning here "parkour which doesn't require the long jump glitch". I suggest moving the silo-thing shown by the green arrow a couple of feet to closer to the defense platform. At this position, it should be possible to reach the balcony with a regular wallrun stretch, instead of depending on the long-jump.

 

 

 

#31 TBF: Stupidity-inducing lockers.

 

           I have seen regularly MOAs get trapped in this area because of the locker. If possible, space them up a bit, remove all the space between them (by maybe adding more) or remove one.

 

 

 

#32 TBC: Sniper tower opportunity.

 

           I feel, as a sniper amateur, that it is a crying shame that this tower cannot be reached conventionally. I've made it to the top using CTRL to boost my vertical running further, but even then the process was really convoluted. I think it should definitely feature some conventional access, maybe with broken pipes or catwalks, with a zipline thrown in for good measure. The trade off of such high ground could be that, for the increased safety, you are out of reach of most loot on the floor and you get different dead angle in exchange for flanking some popular positions. I'd consider adding more relief and visual obstacle, but it feels to me that there is already a good amount of dead-angle.

 

 

That's all for now. Have a good one. 

[HideorEscape]

This is what happened yesterday, I fell out of the tile set and I don't remember how exactly.

 

 

I fell out of the map somehow while I was rushing to extraction.

 

 

 

The tile set's performance could be improved by making these rocky cliff unseen areas flat with invisible textures.

 

 

There are only 3 screenshots, I was able to walk and run on that flat ground.

Edited July 5, 2014 by HideorEscape

[Monolake]

Serious issue:

On Ceres  defence/intercept map you can fall into a pit with pipes and get stuck there with no way to get out (unless you are some Valk or Zeph)

here is a shot from inside the pit http://i60.tinypic.com/5txvt3.jpg

 

 

Also enemies often get stuck in the spawn rooms, making it tedious hide-n-seek instead of defence. I have doubts that its a good defence map at all as the spawns are way too far away from the pod.