Dragon Nikana Is A Better Weapon For Hysteria Than Dual Ichors

[Darzk]

So... yeah. When using full Power Strength and SC aura at least.

 

Recalculating for U14:

 

Build is +280% dmg, +129% PS, both crit mods, nothing else matters.

 

DN = 300 + (85.1*3.8*2.29*1.75) 1595.95 IPS, 24% crit, 3.8x modifier -> Becomes 2668.43 avg dmg

 

DI = 300 + (35*3.8*2.29*1.75) 833 Base, 40% crit, 5.7x modifier -> Becomes 2399.04 avg dmg

 

Now Ichors will do more damage outside Hysteria, and will allow you to copter far further, but if you're not meleeing outside hysteria or if you're constantly staying in Hysteria Dragon Nikana is the better weapon choice.

 

DN is 11.3% more damage than DI.

 

Edit: (New Data)

 

Dual Cleavers = 300 + (35.1*3.8*2.29*1.75) = 835 Base, 40% crti, 5.7x modifier -> Becomes 2404.8 avg dmg

 

Edit: (Old Data)

Dual Cleavers are a tiiiiny bit better than DI @ 3580 avg dmg

Dual Zorens are a little bit worse, @ 3246.9 avg dmg

Orthos Prime comes in at 2954.7 avg dmg

Jat Kittag is 2556.8 avg dmg

Ankyros Prime is 2404.1 avg dmg

Edited August 14, 2014 by Darzk

[(PSN)CrazyDeadPerson]

this will prolly confuse the hek out of a lot of ppl 

[Vyrn]

I was wondering about that...Thanks man! Might still stick with Ichors mostly, but it's nice to know :p

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Ummm lats time i Heard Melee 2.0 screwed Hysteria so badly that it doesnt take into account your weapon, SC aura or any weapon mods you have.

[(PSN)witch3rDC52]

Thanks for the information. I will build and try the Dragoon Nikana but I have the feeling it is like the Galatine where I won't enjoying using it, no matter how powerful it is.  Likely stick to my Dual Ichors and Orthos.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Im building the Nikana (and then the D Nikana) for the same reason as probably anyone else: Cut fools to shreads while looking cool whit Rules of Nature in the background. And because its a @(*()$ Katana and everyone loves a katana.

[Darzk]

With the U14 changes to hysteria these damage values are working again.

[Darealslenderman]

Well depends on how you play valkyr, hysteria is normally good with high dmg weapons, dual ichor tho is amazing with crit etc. Just depends on how you play

[Darzk]

Well depends on how you play valkyr, hysteria is normally good with high dmg weapons, dual ichor tho is amazing with crit etc. Just depends on how you play

 

No... while in Hysteria, DNikana will do more damage. Period. 

 

Now Ichors will do more damage outside Hysteria, and will allow you to copter far further, but if you're not meleeing outside hysteria or if you're constantly staying in Hysteria Dragon Nikana is the better weapon choice.

[Austerity]

Just curious if you spent the time to do the math on Berserker Zorens with speed stack crit. build, or are your calculations for Zorens based on a more impotent build?

 

EDIT: My apologies, if this was already discussed as part of an ongoing multi-thread conversion. 

 

EDIT:... nm... I just realized that all you did was copy pasta from Warframe Builder. Sorry, I thought you were actually doing the math. Please Excuse my interruption.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Austerity

[Darzk]

Just curious if you spent the time to do the math on Berserker Zorens with speed stack crit. build, or are your calculations for Zorens based on a more impotent build?

 

EDIT: My apologies, if this was already discussed as part of an ongoing multi-thread conversion. 

 

At the time I made this thread, pre-U13, no mods would affect the attack speed within Hysteria. U13 added that, but broke the contribution from power strength and +melee damage% so crit was all that mattered and the conclusion was forgone. I've not tested post U14 if the RoF mods are having effect on Hysteria, and how to quantify that (straight +RoF?)

 

If Berzerker does work, and stacks multiplicatively like with regular melee weapons, you would gain a considerable amount of attack speed. Then again, even the DNikana crits enough in Hysteria (~66% chance to get a crit per hit?) to maintain Berzerker so I don't think it would really make a difference.

[Austerity]

hmmm. Doing the mental math seems the only real place I can think to give the two a serious competitive test would be in T4 Def/Surv. If there than a BDN build would probably hold up better than a BDZ purely do to the difference in base damage output when up against heavy mobs. Although with BDZ you would be able to move through the fodder mobs faster which would compensate for some of the time loss on the heavies. 

 

Any place other than a long Defense or Survival run, and you are probably better off with BDZ based on speed alone. I mean if your frame is ranked up enough to have a max power build, you are probably strong enough not to have to stay in Hysteria the entire time on the majority of maps. Meaning speed will most likely be more important than a slight damage increase. The only maps Valkyr users should be forced to stay in Hysteria in is Long Def./Surv. in which case Darzk is probably correct.

 

Almost has me curious enough to go play test it.

[Darzk]

Any place other than a long Defense or Survival run, and you are probably better off with BDZ based on speed alone.

AFAIK Hysteria does NOT draw from the speed of the equipped weapon, only the mods that are equipped. Fury+SS would increase the attack speed by the same amount for each weapon.

[SuperBadPig]

Good job, was very helpful

[xCionx]

Edit:

Dual Cleavers are a tiiiiny bit better than DI @ 3580 avg dmg

Dual Zorens are a little bit worse, @ 3246.9 avg dmg

Orthos Prime comes in at 2954.7 avg dmg

Jat Kittag is 2556.8 avg dmg

Ankyros Prime is 2404.1 avg dmg

 

How come the Dual Cleavers  perfom way better than the DN even though their base damage is much lower ?

[Naftal]

Edit:

Dual Cleavers are a tiiiiny bit better than DI @ 3580 avg dmg

Dual Zorens are a little bit worse, @ 3246.9 avg dmg

Orthos Prime comes in at 2954.7 avg dmg

Jat Kittag is 2556.8 avg dmg

Ankyros Prime is 2404.1 avg dmg

Something seems to be horribly wrong with these figures.

[Darzk]

Something seems to be horribly wrong with these figures.

 

Huh. Somewhere in my edit's I lost the strikethrough through the Edit. It was calculated using an old formula, when I updated the main post I didn't go through all the optional weapons again. Still, proportional to each other they should be relatively correct.

 

To clarify, at some point the 1.75 modifier applied to the total damage done, rather than just to the damage contributed by the weapon. In fact I'm not totally sure it's still there at all, need to retest, just been lazy. Even if its not DN squeaks out above DI but just barely.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Darzk

[Agullimux]

Would be much easier if DE would just clarify facts. Soo, weapon mods matter and all weapon stats but not base speed and reach?

[xCionx]

Huh. Somewhere in my edit's I lost the strikethrough through the Edit. It was calculated using an old formula, when I updated the main post I didn't go through all the optional weapons again. Still, proportional to each other they should be relatively correct.

 

To clarify, at some point the 1.75 modifier applied to the total damage done, rather than just to the damage contributed by the weapon. In fact I'm not totally sure it's still there at all, need to retest, just been lazy. Even if its not DN squeaks out above DI but just barely.

 

I figured something like that happened here ^^

No need for you to work it all out again, I was just baffled 'cause everyone kept saying how DN is THE weapon to go when it comes to hysteria and suddenly Dual Cleaver seems to be top notch (regarding your post) even though their base damage is barely higher than that of the DI.

 

I'm looking to expand my Valkyr arsenal atm, since I've only been running a warcry build with DI (which is also nice, but the new hysteria looks kinda got me hooked now) and since I'm one of those extremly poor guys when it comes to platinum, I've got to choose veeeeeeeeery carefully which weapon will receive its next upgrade (via catalyst) ^^

 

And btw: seen quite a bunch of your posts involving theory crafting; thanks for working that stuff out for us :)

[ThunderZsolt]

i suppose, that without max power strength the ichors win, because the high crit chance - which i prefer to keep hysteria a cheap power. Or am i totally wrong?

[Darzk]

i suppose, that without max power strength the ichors win, because the high crit chance - which i prefer to keep hysteria a cheap power. Or am i totally wrong?

Correct - if you aren't using max power strength the damage contribution from the weapon plays less of a role than the critical stats, so Dual Cleavers becomes the best option; DI *just* below it (less than 1%).

[RajinCrow]

Correct - if you aren't using max power strength the damage contribution from the weapon plays less of a role than the critical stats, so Dual Cleavers becomes the best option; DI *just* below it (less than 1%).

just a question what would u recommend i do with valkyr? :D go rage/QT and melee build or go hysteria cuz all that valkyr talk just annoys the S#&$ out of me xD

[Darzk]

Since when you're in Hysteria you have no other option than to use Hysteria for damage, I would always include max Power Strength just so getting stuck in Hysteria isn't as much of a DPS loss. The armor and attack speed buff from WC is also dependant on Power Strength.

 

I generally use DNikana if I'm using Life Strike, and DI if I'm doing melee DPS outside Hysteria and then using Hysteria to heal.

 

Personally I'd rather go Rage/Life Strike and rely on Hysteria less often. I keep it equipped for emergencies but that's about it. But then again, I'm not the greatest fan of melee.