Volatile Runners: A Little Bit Irrelevent?

[StinkyPygmy]

As I'm sure most of you are aware we will be getting some shiny new enemies to unload magazine after magazine into, something I'm pretty excited about (as are many of us). All of the submissions have been pretty amazing and it seems everyone is excited about the potential new additions to the infested, which have needed some variety and a bit of work for a long time now. This got me thinking about something I've thought about for a long time.

 

Volatile Runners. Considering they are an enemy type that sacrifices themselves to deal damage I feel like the damage they deal is painfully underwhelming, even at the higher levels. I'm not sure how many times this has been brought up (if at all) but I think the damage VRs are capable of inflicting should be significantly buffed. Maybe not enough to oneshot a frame with a 1000+ Shields, but enough to actually make them a significant threat and synergise well with the rest of the infested swarm.

 

Heres a few ideas beyond just increasing initial damage:

- High chance of inflicting status effects. Possibly slash or toxin (seems to make sense seeing as you are essentially being showered in high velocity fragments of bone and infected tissue)

-Player knock down on detonation. Though not entirely sure another infested unit capable of chaining knock downs is needed. 

- An increase in the blast radius. As it is you can very easily avoid taking any damage by side stepping slowly away by the time they detonate.

-Reduce the time it takes for VRs to actually explode.

 

These are just a few suggestions which could bring up some problems. But suggestions nonetheless. It would be nice to see the infested become more of a threat because as they are now they are easily the least threatening faction in the game. The only significant danger they posses is toxic ancients (which is minimal). Other then that assuming you don't have the misfortune of getting stuck in a corner or chain knock downed by ancients (which is fairly easy to avoid barring surprise attacks) you're golden. Obviously things will progress but heres my two cents in regard to a minor change that could be made to the current infested line up. One step at a time.

 

Feel free to discuss.

[Arcane_Intelligence]

I think Volatile Runners used to be more dangerous, then DE made them weaker...

 

But what about Toxic Crawlers? They haven´t been "toxic" for long time...

[StinkyPygmy]

I think Volatile Runners used to be more dangerous, then DE made them weaker...

 

But what about Toxic Crawlers? They haven´t been "toxic" for long time...

I agree many of the crawling infested are even more pointless in their current state. Chargers still make me laugh with their description "fast with WEAK claw attacks".  I think more reworks for the crawlers will come with time. I fully agree with you on that though.

[kaboomonme]

If i recall correctly, volatile runners used to ignore shields with their explosion and cause a guaranteed stagger.

Creates a great opening for Ancients to come in for the kill.

[taiiat]

I think Volatile Runners used to be more dangerous, then DE made them weaker...

 

But what about Toxic Crawlers? They haven´t been "toxic" for long time...

- to be fair, that was still back when we all Enemies had Armor, and Runners had their share of it. that coupled with large groups of them at a time, resulted in me seeing a lot of players getting stunlocked to death by them. 

 

they are pretty pointless nowadays, however. 

 

- also an enemy of issue. only the 'Lectric Crawler is a minor threat, and a minor one indeed. the others are not a threat whatsoever.

 

 

for that matter, even Ancients don't pose all that much of a threat. sure, Disruptors will sap Energy once in a while. rarely is a mission toasted because of that though.

Toxics also snag people from time to time, but it's more of a 'bad luck' thing, than the Enemies actually being effective.

Edited May 20, 2014 by taiiat

[StinkyPygmy]

If i recall correctly, volatile runners used to ignore shields with their explosion and cause a guaranteed stagger.

Creates a great opening for Ancients to come in for the kill.

I do vaguely recall the stagger effect. Don't remember the shield ignore aspect. As with most things there is a chance if any changes are made they will do 360 and be OP, but i have to say just even reimplementing something as simple as the stagger effect would significantly up the danger factor. I would like for DE to take advantage of damage 2.0 a bit more and apply it VRs. Slash damage is one of the few procs that poses a significant threat to the player outside of toxin damage. I've found my self a few times being over confident when taking on an evisceratior with a high shield, low health frame like mag only to bleed out a few seconds later. It would be great If VRs had a high chance of applying some sort of effect, be that stagger or a relevant proc.

[PsiWarp]

I'd like them to have a fair chance to proc Viral, making repeated successful detonations extremely dangerous. They don't necessarily have to deal much damage, so long as they do to keep shields from recharging, already making them a bane when facing multiple types of Infested.

[se05239]

Many infested enemies are underwhelming.

Crawlers are all just same enemy with different color palettes and as mentioned, only the electric one actually pose any level of threat. 

Runners/Leapers are also just the same enemy with different color palettes. At least the Leapers pose a threat with the knockdown from their leap attack.

[StinkyPygmy]

- to be fair, that was still back when we had Armor, and Runners had their share of it. that coupled with large groups of them at a time, resulted in me seeing a lot of players getting stunlocked to death by them. 

 

they are pretty pointless nowadays, however. 

 

- also an enemy of issue. only the 'Lectric Crawler is a minor threat, and a minor one indeed. the others are not a threat whatsoever.

 

 

for that matter, even Ancients don't pose all that much of a threat. sure, Disruptors will sap Energy once in a while. rarely is a mission toasted because of that though.

Toxics also snag people from time to time, but it's more of a 'bad luck' thing, than the Enemies actually being effective.

Thats the issue in a nutshell right there. Most deaths at the hands of infested are bad luck or entirely the fault of the player, either getting overconfident or not paying attention as an ancient charges them from behind. The infested should always be a faction that focuses on being a threat in a group with units that compliment each other well, rather then going down the same road as the grineer in having insanely tanky singular threats. I think most of the infested units need tweaking. VRs are simply one of the ones that comes to mind for me first.

[StinkyPygmy]

I'd like them to have a fair chance to proc Viral, making repeated successful detonations extremely dangerous. They don't necessarily have to deal much damage, so long as they do to keep shields from recharging, already making them a bane when facing multiple types of Infested.

Not a bad idea. The infested greatest focus should be on the group rather then single units. As it stands now though most of the units don't compliment eachother at all.

[taiiat]

I'd like them to have a fair chance to proc Viral, making repeated successful detonations extremely dangerous. They don't necessarily have to deal much damage, so long as they do to keep shields from recharging, already making them a bane when facing multiple types of Infested.

that sounds pretty neat.

 

a lot better than them stunlocking people to death, which while 'needed' for the Infested, was also pretty unfun to have happen.

preferably, even dying in a Video Game should be fun. or atleast not frustrating.

 

do note however, Volatile Runners do currently have a chance to create a Blast Effect.

it's.... pretty low though. like a 1/50 average low.

 

 

what happens if multiple Runners create a Viral Effect? doesn't stack, right? :p

[StinkyPygmy]

that sounds pretty neat.

 

a lot better than them stunlocking people to death, which while 'needed' for the Infested, was also pretty unfun to have happen.

preferably, even dying in a Video Game should be fun. or atleast not frustrating.

 

do note however, Volatile Runners do currently have a chance to create a Blast Effect.

it's.... pretty low though. like a 1/50 average low.

 

 

what happens if multiple Runners create a Viral Effect? doesn't stack, right? :p

Blast effect? never noticed. Probably because of the low chance and the fact they rarely hit anything. Stacking viral, haha probably OP.

Effects other then staggers and knock downs would be nice. Gets a bit old after a while.

[PsiWarp]

Yeah, even if your HP is halved by Viral, at least you can do something about it. Last I checked the wiki, proccing viral while under viral status causes that new HP value to be halved again.... Scary!

[StinkyPygmy]

Yeah, even if your HP is halved by Viral, at least you can do something about it. Last I checked the wiki, proccing viral while under viral status causes that new HP value to be halved again.... Scary!

As far as I know Viral procs can't kill you. Only temporarily reduce max HP, similar to magnetic procs on shields. The exception there is with sayrns venom or when viral dmg is added to weapons that do dmg over time like the torid. But thats not the viral proc itself doing the killing. I'm liking the idea of viral more and more because its not a dmg type used but any enemies as far as I'm aware and is a nice change to toxin. It makes VRs more threatening but not OP and allows them to weaken tenno and compliment the rest of the horde. Chargers do high damage if they hit you so if your shield is taken down quickly while under a viral proc you could find yourself dead in seconds. Also I prefer viral over toxin in this case for the simple face that yes it bypasses shields but doesn't overly screw low health frames.

 

Edit: lore wise viral also makes some sense. VR's could be one way the infection is spread? And I'm curious to know why the tenno appear to be immune to the Technocyte virus. But that could be to related to how its transmitted (yet to be revealed) or will be revealed when more lore is added. But thats a whole different discussion entirely.

Edited May 20, 2014 by StinkyPygmy

[taiiat]

I'm liking the idea of viral more and more because its not a dmg type used but any enemies as far as I'm aware

here's a scary thought.

 

PowerFists do Viral Damage.

 

'cause logic.

[PsiWarp]

Indeed, and unlike when facing the Grineer, the Infested won't render you powerless with Slash prods aplenty. Unless you like hanging out with a Toxic Ancient :P

This change would also help the Toxic and Lobber Crawlers score some kills, since they deal relatively miserable damage up front but closes the gap when you have low HP.

[StinkyPygmy]

here's a scary thought.

 

PowerFists do Viral Damage.

 

'cause logic.

haha oh man I hope not. I think they bypass shields anyway now? That being said I don't I've ever been hit by a powerfist. Another enemy to be worked on, but i digress.

 

 

Indeed, and unlike when facing the Grineer, the Infested won't render you powerless with Slash prods aplenty. Unless you like hanging out with a Toxic Ancient :P

This change would also help the Toxic and Lobber Crawlers score some kills, since they deal relatively miserable damage up front but closes the gap when you have low HP.

I'm liking it. Viral seems the best route by far. It makes the other infested units more of a threat just by osmosis. Some units that have the ability to apply a slowing affect thats not too easy to avoid would also be nice.

[Arcane_Intelligence]

haha oh man I hope not. I think they bypass shields anyway now? That being said I don't I've ever been hit by a powerfist. Another enemy to be worked on, but i digress.

 

I think Powerfists don´t have shield ignoring attacks anymore, but yes, they are slow as h***.

[StinkyPygmy]

I think Powerfists don´t have shield ignoring attacks anymore, but yes, they are slow as h***.

So slow it makes their (apparently high damage) irrelevant. I would experiment to see exactly if they still bypass shields/do high damage but they are so rare that when I do see one I've normally gunned it down before I realise or I don't have time to stand around waiting to be tickled by it because I have other, more pressing matters to attend to, like the other, more threatening grineer around it. 

But Ill possibly bring that up in another thread similar to this dedicated to powerfists specifically.

 

So, in conclusion: High chance to Viral proc on volatile runners, good? Possibly tweak blast radius and/or speed also good?

Make it happen DE please. Would highly appreciate

Unless anyone has any other ideas?

But it appears this thread has reached its untimely end.

[Endrance]

I'm still remember the time when volatile runners weren't a problem about the damage they did... but were a problem with the knockback.

 

Good old times

[Arcane_Intelligence]

So slow it makes their (apparently high damage) irrelevant. I would experiment to see exactly if they still bypass shields/do high damage but they are so rare that when I do see one I've normally gunned it down before I realise or I don't have time to stand around waiting to be tickled by it because I have other, more pressing matters to attend to, like the other, more threatening grineer around it. 

But Ill possibly bring that up in another thread similar to this dedicated to powerfists specifically.

 

I actually let one to hit me, but you should be more worried about everyone else.

 

 

So, in conclusion: High chance to Viral proc on volatile runners, good? Possibly tweak blast radius and/or speed also good?

Make it happen DE please. Would highly appreciate

Unless anyone has any other ideas?

But it appears this thread has reached its untimely end.

 

I do like Viral proc, but DE should make them more rare then. They are so common that you would be "viraled" most of the time.

[StinkyPygmy]

I actually let one to hit me, but you should be more worried about everyone else.

 

 

I do like Viral proc, but DE should make them more rare then. They are so common that you would be "viraled" most of the time.

Not super rare though. If they were as rare as electric crawlers or even the normal crawlers it would be a bit of a backwards step. But definitely take down their numbers a bit. If something like this was implemented it would be interesting to see just how effective it is. Plus high shield frames like rhino and mag wont be so invulnerable around infested and only falling prey to toxic ancients. Viral scales well with all frames, the higher the health the more you lose, the lower your health, the less a viral proc will effect you.

Please DE!

[AuroraSonicBoom]

They've most probably added normal runners to dilute the volatile runner spawn rate so they can make them cause guaranteed staggers again. They need that ability back - hell, infested need more CC overall to increase the difficulty with which they can be farmed, especially with them returning to the star chart in a permanent way. Beware the xini 2.0 is all I should have to say.

[StinkyPygmy]

They've most probably added normal runners to dilute the volatile runner spawn rate so they can make them cause guaranteed staggers again. They need that ability back - hell, infested need more CC overall to increase the difficulty with which they can be farmed, especially with them returning to the star chart in a permanent way. Beware the xini 2.0 is all I should have to say.

Infested already have somewhat decent CC. It would be nice to see something other then simply staggers, knockdowns (Love being slapped around by ancients high fiving each other) and the odd case of poison procs. That being said I would still be happy to see volatiles causing staggers. But viral/slowing status effects or something along those lines would also be a welcome addition.

[Eurhetemec]

I don't think increasing the damage would be smart - the problem is that with strong weapons, it's fairly trivial to keep them away, but with weak weapons (as all starting players have), they're significantly hard to kill before they reach you, so that would really cream newer players and people on lower level frames and so on.

 

Staggers, knockdowns or knockbacks would be better - yes, they already have a lot of these, but that avoids just making Volatiles the bane of lower-level players. They'd certainly need to spawn less of them, either way.