Backstabbing And Executions - Cool But Useless, Let's Fix That

[Kuhrasu]

The problem:

   1.Finishers and stealth attacks don't work, they are high risk/low reward as opposed to ranged which is low risk/high reward gameplay and are not satisfying at all.

   2. Parrying is not precise and feels random, instead of being challenging and rewarding player skill.

 

Solution:

   1. Make finishers and stealth attacks work like they normally do in this type of game - Instantly kill an enemy. Even with instant finisher kills, it would still take more time to kill a single enemy, than it would take to kill a room full of enemies with a gun, so it makes no sense not to fix the problem.

   2. Add some sort of indicator of the correct timing of a parry, as to allow players with good reflexes to be rewarded for that, as opposed to having the current, seemingly random, floaty system.

 

Proof

- http://a.pomf.se/itsgld.webm'>Backstab (doesn't kill, requires movement, requires some skill) [Link is 60 FPS video]

- Parry (doesn't kill, requires movement, requires timing) [Link is 60 FPS video]

- http://a.pomf.se/jdobee.webm'>Ranged (kills, many targets in fact, requires no movement, requires next to no skill) [Link is 60 FPS video]

 

Quality of Life Tweak

- Change the prompt for Parry Finishers and Backstabs to the Use button for consistency and to allow regular melee attacks to be used if you prefer, instead of a finisher or a backstab.

 

 

 

                                                       TL; DR - MAKE FINISHERS BE FINISHERS

 

 

   Warframe is a game where a maximum of 4 players go up against hordes of enemies, armed with both ranged and melee weapons and 4 abilities each. A fairly standard action game setup, yet Warframe makes several fatal mistakes, in it's melee combat specifically. There is much that can be said as to why the melee combat in Warframe is lackluster, even after Melee 2.0 (a marked improvement, but still not sufficient), but for now I would like to address a smaller issue - finishers. 

 

   Before we go into detail, let's just remember a key point about action games that feature both melee and ranged combat.

Ranged combat gives you safety and the ability to dispatch targets at varying ranges with fairly little input, thus it is low risk. Melee combat allows you to take a more hands-on approach to dispatching foes, requiring you to move to each individual enemy in order to eliminate them, this can be accomplished either with dashes contained within combos, abilities or simple slide dashing, regardless of how you go about it, choosing melee puts you at a higher risk, thus melee is high risk.

 

   A cursory look at any action game regarded as good, which features both ranged and melee combat will show you a simple truth, regarding what we have went over thus far it can be expressed as:

 

Ranged combat - Low Risk / Low Reward 

Melee combat - High Risk / High Reward

 

   This simply isn't the case with Warframe, ranged combat is low risk with high reward, while melee is high risk with extremely low reward, comparatively. Which leads to a lack of viability for melee in the end game and generally unsatisfying melee combat, considering "my friends just shoot stuff dead before I can even reach it". Now I won't go on to rant about the entire melee system, as I said, baby steps, so let's talk about a facet of Warframe's melee system, finishers and executions.

 

   Historically, most action games which feature melee combat, also feature some sort of finisher/execution/counter attack system. These elements require conditions to be met, unlike ranged combat, they require you to be behind an enemy/parry an enemy/knockdown an enemy and also lock you into an animation until they play out. This skill + risk factor means that a suitable high reward is needed, thus in most games, these moves instantly kill an enemy. This is not the case in Warframe. Let's look at these features individually.

 

* Backstabbing:

   Point 1 - Stealth attacks in Warframe carry a damage boost, specifically 400%, this is for both Backstabs and attacks while invisible. Now, regular attacks while invisible should carry a damage boost, but backstabs should kill any enemy except bosses, this is a simple thing games have been doing forever, you are locked into an animation and you had to sneak up to the target, considering this is a game where we fight many, many foes and it's already more beneficial to simply use AoE weapons to clear rooms in one click, backstabs should kill outright, no damage boost, just a "kill" trigger, simple as that. Otherwise why don't I just launch a grenade to kill everyone in the room, or fire an arrow which is almost guaranteed to kill any enemy in a single hit (like I showed you in the introduction), and even if it doesn't it still does more damage than the backstab.

A ranged attack, does more damage than the backstab.

Low risk gameplay, features a reward MUCH higher than high risk gameplay.

   Point 2 - Considering the futility of melee at higher levels (excluding certain weapons), can anyone name a single reason why being behind an enemy does not prompt an execution, even if the enemy has technically detected us? Go on, try to figure out a reason, I will wait. Considering 100% of enemies that have detected us will be facing our direction, getting into position behind them is difficult, especially considering the wonky dodging mechanic we have, so where is the reward for this difficult, high risk feat? There is none. Why? Because DE haven't played many melee action games is my guess (jk). The fact that this isn't in the game also leads to some comedic (not in a good way) situations. For example, say that an enemy saw you and went over to a console, he has his back turned to you, yet instead of driving your sword clean through his chest, punishing him for that terrible mistake, you just kind of flail around in his general direction as he flashes red several times and turns around to start shooting you.

Summary/TL;DR:

   Backstabs should always be instant kills, being behind an enemy should allow for an execution prompt. This will make stealth satisfying, melee movement based combat satisfying and slightly more viable and allow for an assassin playstyle, which is currently impossible.

 

* Parry Finishers:

   Point 1 - This again is a tried and proven staple of melee combat in action games, successful timed parrying opens up an enemy to a counter attack which kills them and is satisfying due to the brutal animations. We sure as hell have some brutal animations, but after I drive my daggers into the stomach of a Grineer who thought he had the skill to take me on in melee, he just flinches and continues firing at me, or at best takes a quick powernap before getting up to continue practicing his second amendment rights. Also parrying needs something like the flashes in MGR and to be tightened up a bit. So, why not bring this element of the melee combat in Warframe up to the level of satisfaction and skill of games that focus on melee?

   Point 2 - Due to DE deciding that most enemies in this game should be hitscan ranged ones, gapclosers are needed, currently the melee system allows for slide attacking to close gaps, but it's floaty and not satisfying to use, a nice way to help that along would be giving parry finishers some sort of dash/rush mechanic, where after a parry finisher you can transition into melee combat with another enemy quickly, be it a small speed boost, or each stance having a combo that starts with a finisher and features a dash after it, you get the idea.

Summary/TL;DR:

   Finishers need to be able to finish enemies, considering I can just shoot once with any high tier weapon and kill nearly any enemy, why doesn't my brutal finishing move do even half of that damage? Also tighter mechanics, please.

 

Wall of text over.

List of third person shooters which feature some form of instant melee execution, as a showcase of what I mean:

Note, I will exclude third person melee action games, because the list would go on forever, Metal Gear Rising, Assassin's Creed, Prince of Persia, Batman Arkham franchise and the like should serve as enough of an example for that, we'll just look at shooters, otherwise the list probably won't fit on one page!

- Splinter Cell Blacklist

- Mass Effect 3

- Just Cause 2

- Binary Domain

- Lost Planet 3

- The Last of Us

- Uncharted 3

- Splinter Cell Conviction

- Gears of War 3

- Mafia II

- Red Dead Redemption

- Uncharted 2

- The Godfather II

- Gears of War 2

- Saints Row 3

- Saints Row 2

- Dark Sector

- Death to Spies

- Gears of War

- Made Man

- Reservoir Dogs

- The Godfather

- Rogue Trooper

- The Matrix Path of Neo

- Mafia

- Total Overdose

- Red Dead Revolver

- Freedom Fighters

I probably missed a lot too, but you get my idea

Edited May 30, 2014 by Kuhrasu

[Casardis]

About Parry Finishers: it doesn't help that this system is also dictated by the RNG God, instead of making it a skill-based system in the player's hand.

[Endrance]

YOu do realize that "this" with the latest Ash Teleport "fix" will break the system right?

 

 

Ash teleport now opens a finisher window, so as long as i have energy, i can just "Teleport/kill/next/teleport/kill/next" without any counter.

 

Since the teleport gives a minor stagger, the enemie won't even be able to react, then i just backstab him, and move on to the next.

 

 

Note that, i would love it, but it will bring some problems, problems that were "recently" fixed (Ash teleport just got the finisher add last week).

 

There are plenty of things Warframe need to have a high-end rewarding melee system.

 

Despite your post would need some tweak here and adpat there, here's my +1

Edited May 21, 2014 by Endrance

[Fastwaffle]

i agree with this post

[Kuhrasu]

*would make Ash more powerful than intended*

I understand the issue, but it would be extremely simple really, to just make Ash's skills use the current system, and even if they don't, what's the issue. My point still stands that a single arrow, that costs next to nothing, will still outpower your Ash Teleport Kill because I can do it in a more rapid succession. You know what I say, let Ash have a way to kill any enemy, except bosses, it's still only one by one and costs you energy and makes you vulnerable during the animation itself.

About Parry Finishers: it doesn't help that this system is also dictated by the RNG God, instead of making it a skill-based system in the player's hand.

The current Parrying system needs some tweaking, it's not as tight as something like Metal Gear Rising's parry system, this is due partly to the fact that there is no clear indication of when to parry, obviously it's during the enemy's attack animation, but at what point?

Maybe DE could add a small flash of light before enemy melee attacks (ala MGR) and tighten up the mechanics of parrying along with that to provide us a more challenging, but fair and skillful melee system.

And on this short point about MGR's parrying, it is worth nothing that apart from bosses, parrying opens up nearly all enemies to instant kills, as it should, which is why MGR is considered a good action game, because of these tight mechanics that reward skill.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Kuhrasu

[StinkyPygmy]

I was on board with you up until you started needlessly flaming DE.

Other then that I pretty much agree.An improvement to stealth and executions etc will very likely come.

Remember (I'm starting to get sick of bringing this up but oh well) Wf is still very much unfinished and in Beta. All your suggestions are very valid and more improvements will come in time. As you said, baby steps.

 

DE does pay attention to players beyond the DC. Just look at the recent "Enemies of the tenno" comp running allowing ALL players to suggest and pitch new enemy ideas. If you were so sure they didn't then why bother creating this thread?

Many players that have played high lvl end game missions still find the melee system to be viable and fun. I know do. 40+ min T3 survival and its not ideal but still works with the right amount of skill and suitable loadout.

You bring up a lot of valid points OP but you are also demonstrating a bit of ignorance. There are many ways around some of the issues you have brought up (like closing the gap for instance which is arguably very easy).

 

Beta = future improvements.

[Bladereap3r]

@Kuhrasu ~ some really strong points given on melee, some I've not even thought of...brilliant!  #thumbsup ~ with reservation, defo steps in the right direction. Bumpin Up! +1

Edited May 21, 2014 by Bladereap3r

[EaglesTalons]

Been looking forward for something like this for some time. I assumed from the start that stealth attacks would work like this from the get go. Glad to see someone had the common sense to see it like this. Hope someone notices and makes it happen +1

[EnyuStar]

I agree with this post +1

[Kuhrasu]

Bump for the sake of discussion.

[Brahmastra]

Can't believe they have not implemented this yet.

 

O wait it makes sense..

[sewens]

Perfect.

The combat system could use improvements like these if stealth can ever be something greater than killing everything before you get spotted.

It is a shame that DE probably won't get to see this though.

[VoidWraith]

Wow.....

Just wow....

 

I can't believe someone who thought the same thing I did about "Stealth Attacks" and Finishers.

 

To add on, the stealth attack or "execution" in which you put it, should just critically wound bosses. After you all, you took the time to sneak up to the boss unnoticed by the boss.

[Kuhrasu]

Wow.....

Just wow....

 

I can't believe someone who thought the same thing I did about "Stealth Attacks" and Finishers.

 

To add on, the stealth attack or "execution" in which you put it, should just critically wound bosses. After you all, you took the time to sneak up to the boss unnoticed by the boss.

It's a fairly common conclusion to anyone who has played action games featuring finisher moves and stealth attacks, I just took the time to express it in an informative way, so hopefully DE take notice and do something about it!

[VoidWraith]

Yeah.... seriously.... BUMP so more people will know and get DE attention.

[Yefrign]

personally I've been wondering why a "stealth kill" isnt actually a "kill" the first time I didnt kill my enemy with such a move (Update 7, yeah thats a while ago)

 

I have to agree with the OP here. Melee 2.0 HAS made melee far better than it was. but its still in that iffy area where its still just easier and better to just cap the enemy in the face than do anything else. (with the exception of Infested. that just begs to use melee now days imo)

[Stefanovich]

 ...can anyone name a single reason why being behind an enemy does not prompt an execution, even if the enemy has technically detected us? Go on, try to figure out a reason, I will wait. Considering 100% of enemies that have detected us will be facing us, getting into position behind them is difficult, especially considering the garbage dodging mechanic we have, so where is the reward for this difficult, high risk feat? There is none. Why? Because DE haven't played many melee action games is my guess.

 

I am fairly certain that I am part of the 0.1% that actually try and roll around an enemy to get a better angle of attack. Whenever I solo T3 Capture missions with Ash and my Dragon Nikana, I always hold my ground when an Ancient is charging me. I hold block, wait for the right moment, and roll to the side, using the directional keys to roll in a semi-circle around them. They miss their slap of death, and I can lay into them, killing them before they can recover. If they implemented your suggestion, I would actually be rewarded for this type of gameplay. I'm sick and tired of smashing E over and over because it's the fastest way to kill.

 

+1

[Loswaith]

Stealth backstabing/finisher I can agree, would be great as an instant kill, however other the "finishers" just sound far too powerful.  Just because you are behind or standing over a fallen down enemy doesnt mean they would abandon all defence and let you kill them.

 

I could see an argument for a downed hit being a way to do guarenteed melee crits to add that bit extra, because knocking down an enemy is exceptionally easy to do.

 

Parries also are far more designed to be a protection thing rather than a open a weakspot in an enemy type deal.  Especially since you can actually parry AoE weapons taking little to no damage.

 

Also keep in mind Tenno have regenerating shields, this is the bigest power you have for lettig you close the gap to your enemies.

 

At the end of the day melee is meant to be a backup, its great it can be used even in high end content and still be a viable option, but guns are the reason melee stopped being a real option for battle.  I woundn't expect that to change over thousands or even millions of years into the future.

[Kuhrasu]

Stealth backstabing/finisher I can agree, would be great as an instant kill, however other the "finishers" just sound far too powerful.  Just because you are behind or standing over a fallen down enemy doesnt mean they would abandon all defence and let you kill them.

 

I could see an argument for a downed hit being a way to do guarenteed melee crits to add that bit extra, because knocking down an enemy is exceptionally easy to do.

 

Parries also are far more designed to be a protection thing rather than a open a weakspot in an enemy type deal.  Especially since you can actually parry AoE weapons taking little to no damage.

 

Also keep in mind Tenno have regenerating shields, this is the bigest power you have for lettig you close the gap to your enemies.

 

At the end of the day melee is meant to be a backup, its great it can be used even in high end content and still be a viable option, but guns are the reason melee stopped being a real option for battle.  I woundn't expect that to change over thousands or even millions of years into the future.

You have to understand, even if they are complete instant kills, they would still be much weaker than ranged combat in which it's possible do dispatch an enemy in 1 second, while rolling around an enemy as Stefanovich pointed out takes more than one second and is a feat of skill, while shooting in Warframe, as we full well know, isn't exactly difficult.

 

You are talking about blocking, not parrying, parrying is a feat of skill which requires timing and rewards you with putting you in danger and not even killing an enemy in the same time you could have killed a room with a ranged weapon.

 

Same applies to ranged combat, it's not like you only have shields when your melee is equipped, please, don't be so silly.

 

At the end of the day, DO YOU EVEN ACTION VIDEO GAMES?

 

To better illustrate my point, I will make 2 clips and add them to the OP, one of killing at enemy at range and one of NOT killing an enemy with a finisher.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Kuhrasu

[Kuhrasu]

Updated the OP with a nice summary before the wall of text, a list of third person shooters that have this feature and two videos showcasing the issue.

[VoidWraith]

Stealth backstabing/finisher I can agree, would be great as an instant kill, however other the "finishers" just sound far too powerful.  Just because you are behind or standing over a fallen down enemy doesnt mean they would abandon all defence and let you kill them.

 

I could see an argument for a downed hit being a way to do guarenteed melee crits to add that bit extra, because knocking down an enemy is exceptionally easy to do.

 

Parries also are far more designed to be a protection thing rather than a open a weakspot in an enemy type deal.  Especially since you can actually parry AoE weapons taking little to no damage.

 

Also keep in mind Tenno have regenerating shields, this is the bigest power you have for lettig you close the gap to your enemies.

 

At the end of the day melee is meant to be a backup, its great it can be used even in high end content and still be a viable option, but guns are the reason melee stopped being a real option for battle.  I woundn't expect that to change over thousands or even millions of years into the future.

 

 

You have to understand, even if they are complete instant kills, they would still be much weaker than ranged combat in which it's possible do dispatch an enemy in 1 second, while rolling around an enemy as Stefanovich pointed out takes more than one second and is a feat of skill, while shooting in Warframe, as we full well know, isn't exactly difficult.

 

You are talking about blocking, not parrying, parrying is a feat of skill which requires timing and rewards you with putting you in danger and not even killing an enemy in the same time you could have killed a room with a ranged weapon.

 

Same applies to ranged combat, it's not like you only have shields when your melee is equipped, please, don't be so silly.

 

At the end of the day, DO YOU EVEN ACTION VIDEO GAMES?

 

To better illustrate my point, I will make 2 clips and add them to the OP, one of killing at enemy at range and one of NOT killing an enemy with a finisher.

 

Basically this ^

We may have regenerating shields yes, but with the way melee is, it's a huge stamina drain to apply certain mechanics into using melee. The swings alone can kill your stamina. You don't have enough to melee, block, roll to safety (in that order).

 

Heck, even chasing after an enemy that is running away for cover requires you to chase after while blocking/avoiding fire to catch up and end him. At the moment, you can use your combos and melee even if you run out of stamina.

 

Blocking stops the second you run out of stamina which makes you have to reblock (even though your stamina will be very low and prone to be drained again if a stray bullet hit you are they decide to shield bash/riflebutt you).

 

If an enemy is running away, and his back is turned, there should be a finisher animation for that (people will complain about being too OP, but is it REALLY? maybe instead of finisher it procs a knockdown interaction, which will lead to a finisher.)

 

We are "space ninjas" without the ability to be a "ninja". The only "ninja" thing about us is that we can parkour......really? That's it?

 

The mechanic on stealth is a laugh. Yes, they tried to improve it with the security alarm reset. BUT, even the enemies are smarter (their AI behavior) in that they fire at you are yell out a grunt (which isn't even that loud but alerts the entire room AND the next room). They will then proceed to either run for cover, fire at you, throw grenade at you (yes, I've had one just run for a bit and then chuck a grenade at me after running like 2m ingame).

They don't have the small jump/scare animation when noticing you. They just pause switch to attack mode and then proceed with their "attack" animation patterns/behaviors (all in just half a second maybe less. It feels like once they see you, they fire IMMEDIATELY). There's no jump scare in between. I don't care if they are "space marines", they are infact living (ingame at least), so therefore they should be able to be spooked.

Even the wildlife have their animations where they notice you and then either attack or proceed to do their thing.

 

Now for finishers from parrying. This is a valid point in both cases (the ones I quoted). Yes you can "block" AoE attacks. Parrying involves you being upclose. Yes I suppose if you are close enough you can proc the parrying causing you to be able to counter-finish them. But remember. While you are doing ALL of this, getting close to enemies, timing the parry to counter (unless you have parry mod and just abuse the -donkey- out of it), other enemies and the one you're targeting are firing at you. You still take damage (from mainly getting shot at the sides and back, since blocking/parrying is only in a forward cone, as it should be), AND your stamina is being drained ON YOUR WAY to the target.

 

 

 

But what about Ash's Teleport? It leaves enemies in that stunned/finisher-able state.

True, but spending 25 energy (can be reduced by efficiency mods) to take out one target? Not really worth it unless it's for heavy units, or bosses just to flinch them (while inflicting your mediocre damage to them? or crit wound them. In Ash's case, bleed them). Most first abilities are used to affect multiple targets, or possibly affect multiple targets (enemy or ally). Although there are some exceptions like Nyx's Mind Control but that abilities essentially lets you mind rape an enemy and turn them into your ally until the skill's duration (this includes heavy units as well, for bosses, you get to flinch/stun them for a bit).

 

Really hope DE notices this.

 

EDIT:

Perhaps for the AoE blocks (since moves enemies just slam the floor to cause a ground shockwave, except for heavy units from the grineer), the "parry" becomes like a sort of move where you "dodge" through it, opening for a counter-finisher?

Edited May 23, 2014 by VoidWraith

[Kuhrasu]

*snibbedy snab*

Agreed on your points.

 

My issue with the community is their kneejerk reaction "OMG, INSTANT KILL SO OP" yet we can instantly kill a room, at no risk to ourselves, with two clicks, but melee needs to suffer, because.... reasons.

 

Backstab - Kill

Knocked down and stabbed - Kill

Parried and counter attacked - Kill

 

Even if we had all of those, melee would still be weaker than ranged, but it would at least be satisfying.

[VoidWraith]

Agreed on your points.

 

My issue with the community is their kneejerk reaction "OMG, INSTANT KILL SO OP" yet we can instantly kill a room, at no risk to ourselves, with two clicks, but melee needs to suffer, because.... reasons.

 

Backstab - Kill

Knocked down and stabbed - Kill

Parried and counter attacked - Kill

 

Even if we had all of those, melee would still be weaker than ranged, but it would at least be satisfying.

 

I also agree on your idea for the entire idea of Backstab. Since if you are able to get around to an enemies' back, you should be able to "execute" them.

The AI behaviors/mechanics, don't always allow this, as once you even get a little close within their radius when they're alerted, they notice you almost immediately. I've only ever successfully snuck to an enemies' back while they are focus firing on another squad mate like 2-3 times ever.

The amount of potential this game COULD have is alarming, but I don't see DE making much efforts to reach it sadly.

 

The ideas are there though. Like with rescue 2.0 (a laugh). The Wardens can basically all be stealth killed (with melee). It was satisfying but not much since there was practically a war outside the prison room, but the Wardens seem to not have noticed, even though the doors opened, and you entered in from the chaos outside.

[Kuhrasu]

I also agree on your idea for the entire idea of Backstab. Since if you are able to get around to an enemies' back, you should be able to "execute" them.

The AI behaviors/mechanics, don't always allow this, as once you even get a little close within their radius when they're alerted, they notice you almost immediately. I've only ever successfully snuck to an enemies' back while they are focus firing on another squad mate like 2-3 times ever.

The amount of potential this game COULD have is alarming, but I don't see DE making much efforts to reach it sadly.

 

The ideas are there though. Like with rescue 2.0 (a laugh). The Wardens can basically all be stealth killed (with melee). It was satisfying but not much since there was practically a war outside the prison room, but the Wardens seem to not have noticed, even though the doors opened, and you entered in from the chaos outside.

The issue is more farther reaching than that even. Because DE assume that scaling HP and damage means that they have increased the difficulty, we are left with a game that offers very little mechanical challenge, more of a statistical one. I need a better weapon to keep killing these guys as fast as I used to on lower levels. Gain 10 Damage while the enemy gains 10 health is not difficulty, it's bad design.

 

Historically, action games regarded as well designed have focused on what I like to call avoidance gameplay. Dodging, parrying and the like, while the attacks of the enemy have tells and you need to time your avoidance properly etc, with more variations being added, instead of health and damage being scaled. The simplest "good" action video game concept:

 

Level 1:

Corridor.

You are on one end, an enemy is on another.

He launches an orb.

If it hits you, you die.

If you dodge it, you live.

You need to reach him and kill him with a single melee ranged attack.

 

Level 2:

Same setup.

He now needs 2 hits to die, he launches 2 orbs.

Reach him and kill him.

 

Level 3:

Same setup.

Enemy launches 3 obs, they cover the corridor.

You know have the power to reflect orbs if you time an input properly.

Enemy also has this power.

You need to bait him into reflecting an orb as you reflect one at him to kill him OR you dodge and reflect orbs and kill him with a melee attack.

now we're adding different approaches

 

Level 4:

Same setup.

The orbs now zig zag.

The enemy can now shoot a laser than you block or dodge, due to him having a tell shortly before launching it.

The enemy can now melee attack and block too, you need to parry him to open him up to a finisher.

 

etc.

 

You get my idea. Now let's apply this concept of avoidance gameplay with options to Warframe:

You encounter a Grineer Scorpion in a room.

Before she launches her hook, her arm lights up (a tell), you now have 0.7 seconds to roll out of the way.

If you rolled out of the way she launches it and misses.

She takes no action for the next 1 second, with the rope hanging in the air for 0.5 seconds after it has extended.

Option 1: Shoot her, after having dodged her attack.

Option 2: Move in for melee combat.

Option 3: If you are close to the rope, during that 0.5 seconds you can press the interact key to pull her towards you, as she is being pulled her sword flashes, if you press the block button as it flashes, you knock her on the ground and can finish her off, if you mistime it she recovers and inflicts a bleed proc on you and knocks you down.

 

All of this would be fairly simple to code and just require some snappy animation work, yet would be so much more interactive and satisfying than what we currently have.

 

Now after this off-topic wall of text, I'd like us to stop getting so off-topic and focus on the issue at hand, backstabs and finishers do not work as they should, challenging movement gameplay that positions you behind and enemy is left with no reward.

[VoidWraith]

Yeah, pretty examples. I think Vindictus or Tera Online are pretty good examples for enemies with a "tell".

Although I do agree interactive gameplay with the said "tells" would be more engaging and fun, since it's an option, not a "you have to or else" thing.

Edited May 23, 2014 by VoidWraith