Player Ship: Lotus Debriefing After A Successful Mission

[Casardis]

I know it might be too soon to give feedback on the barebone player ship concept, but I'm still putting this here in case DE didn't think about it, but think it might be interesting to add.

What is this?
After each mission, if we're brought back to the Tenno ship, along with the mission complete screen, maybe we can have another screen in the ship with Lotus talking to us, or a hologram debriefing us on the results of the mission in a more immersive way.

Since they have a 3D model already, I'm sure they can work on a full-body hologram in the ship:

Here are examples of such debriefing:

Capture mission finished
Lotus: "The targets we've interrogated revealed the location of captured Red Veil Resistance scientists on the outskirt of a Mars colony. We've now sent a team to rescue them, so rest assure: your job is successful."

Lotus: "It seems these Grineer targets had valuable information, which could contribute to Tyl Regor's research against their genetic deterioration. If we hadn't captured them, it would have significant impact on his progress. Thank you, Tenno."

Sabotage mission finished
Lotus: "The Grineer ship you destroyed was heading straight for a Tenno hideout near the region, without their knowing. I may have a lead towards a Corpus information broker, who found their location somehow. A team is already on their way to investigate."

You get the jist of it.


How will it work?
I was thinking that each mission type will have a huge pool of lines (sorry Rebecca) that the Lotus can draw from and debrief after each mission, so each time it sounds a bit fresh. Some of the lines will be much more generic (moving the current end missions Lotus dialogue to the debriefing instead), while some others will be more in-depth (like the examples I gave above). Some of the more specific lines will play accordingly to alert missions (if it says "Tenno sympathizer located" for a Rescue alert mission, Lotus will debrief on those sympathizer instead of considering them as random civilians).

While the debriefing happens, you are still free to do whatever you're doing in your ship, since it happens in the background. Therefore, it won't interrupt you after a mission, or making you sit through her dialogues. Additionally, there will be an option to disable the debriefing for those who simply don't like the idea.

I think it can increase immersion a little bit more, knowing first-hand that there are other Tenno teams out there communicating with Lotus, continuing on missions that you've started (in "idea" only, not actuality of course; it's all for a minimum of immersion). It will also integrate seamlessly with the idea of a player ship.

More Lotus work for Rebecca too! :D

EDIT: Lotus already did that when you kill a boss in the solar chart for the first time. I'm not sure if she still does that anymore for new players, but I thought that was actually really cool.

 

EDIT 2: Examples given by Phaenur that could add more depth to this idea. Click the spoiler below to read it, or you can go directly to their post:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/237557-player-ship-lotus-debriefing-after-a-successful-mission/?p=2791474

So much for writer's block! Managed to crank this out way faster than I was expecting to.

 

Since it's so early on, Lotus is the only speaker – you might get bosses, minor faction representatives, or main characters chiming in once you're past Earth, maybe a bit farther. Anyway, I hope I've done a decent job of capturing her voice here.

 

 

 

Upon first arriving over Venus:

“This is Venus. Despite being caught between Grineer operations bases on Mercury and Old Earth, this planet still belongs to their chief rivals: the Corpus. This merchant guild has rallied from a civil war and numerous bloody setbacks to legitimately challenge Grineer dominance in Origin. You may have met our Corpus market contacts already when buying new equipment, but be warned – most of them see you as nothing more than a treasure to be sold...or a specimen to be dissected.

 

“I have given you the coordinates of a common Corpus shipping lane around the Cytherean outpost. Board one of their ships and eliminate its security force to train yourself to battle Corpus. Watch out for automated security systems and manufactories – these enemies are not as straightforward as Vor's patrolmen.”

 

 

 

After completing Cytherean:

“It is good to see you return, Tenno. But just as in Mercury, your campaign here in Venus will not be won through force of arms alone. You need the intelligence network I can provide in order to truly weaken the Corpus holdings in this area of space.

 

“If you would prefer to stay here, you have a choice of destinations. The Aphrodite ground station on a nearby asteroid in particular is home to several high-value targets who may prove crucial to preventing the Corpus from developing their weapons technology beyond what we can handle You will need to be quick and well-armed to bring them down, though, and I cannot say what you will find in the lower orbitals as you get closer to the planet itself. If you choose to strike out for V Prime instead, be aware that it is used as a transshipment point for political prisoners and dissidents. Move quietly to liberate anyone you can. We need all the goodwill we can muster.

 

“To help you pass through the sector, I have collected this artifact to grant your rifle ammunition cryogenic properties. These will quickly strip the shields that Corpus troops favor, and work well in conjunction with the electric rounds I gave you earlier to overload their proxies. There are other combinations, of course, but I leave you to discover their properties yourself. I will be in touch when your efforts bear fruit.”

 

 

 

These first two were extra-long because they form the introduction to the planet, plus a new faction. Well, and also because I'm incapable of writing anything that's not a wall of text.

 

 

 

After completing Aphrodite (before V Prime):

“I see you are here for the duration, Tenno. Thank you. Your captives will be interrogated, but the process will take some time. Until then, press on. Other cells have been alerted to your actions, so you may engage in defense missions with full support.”

 

 

 

After completing Aphrodite (after V Prime):

“Between your captives and the targets from earlier, I believe I will soon have the information I need to pin down the focus of Corpus activity in the sector. I am rallying other cells for our major actions, so feel free to engage in defense missions. You will not be alone.”

 

 

 

After completing Aphrodite (after Fossa):

“Thank you for remaining in the sector, Tenno. We do not yet know how the Corpus will react to the destruction of their prototype. I am sending more cells to Venus to consolidate our gains there. You will have support for defense missions in the future.”

 

 

 

After completing Unda (before V Prime):

“The captives from earlier have provided me with the information I need to decode this intelligence, but it will still take some time to collate. Continue your work with my blessing, Tenno. I have given you another Redirection mod; use it to empower any you already have before you press on.”

 

 

 

After completing Unda (before Fossa):

“I believe this data combined with the information you have already uncovered will allow me to identify the Corpus's main goals in Venus space. We are in the endgame here, Tenno. Take an additional Redirection mod; use it to enhance any you already have before deploying again.”

 

 

 

After completing Unda (after Fossa):

“If the Corpus are true to form, the data files you collected will allow me to determine how they intend to proceed after Jackal's destruction. You are nearly through with this planet for now, Tenno, and I will give you an additional Redirection mod before you leave. Use it to enhance any you already have before moving on.”

 

 

 

After completing Venera or Vesper:

“Your fellow Tenno have deployed Solar Rails of their own beyond this node, leading into the unexplored Dark Sectors on the system's fringe. I cannot recommend that you pass along one of these now, but I cannot stop you either. Remember, Tenno, there is no shame in retreating from an enemy you cannot yet match.”

 

 

 

After completing Linea:

“Tenno, I realize that the spacelanes to Old Earth are just before you, but I must ask you to stay in the system for a little longer. The intelligence you've gathered, the prisoners you've taken and those you've saved, I have drawn a disturbing conclusion from it all. The Corpus have an advanced factory in the region, which is testing a new and far heavier proxy. This Jackal robot is much larger and better protected than any MOA or Osprey you've encountered, and I cannot let you oppose it unprepared. I have two artifacts ready for you – they will be expensive and time-consuming to enhance, but the payoff will be worth the wait. Each will directly enhance the firepower of any primary or secondary weapon, regardless of type, by a significant degree. Use them well, Tenno.

 

“Now, before I send you and your cell against the Jackal, I need you to sabotage a major manufactory keeping it supplied. Proceed to the Tessera outpost, and from there to the factory cruisers in the Fossa region. End this threat.”

 

 

 

After completing Fossa (before Venera):

“You have done your fellow Tenno a great service, and preserved the balance of power between the Grineer and Corpus in the system. You are free to proceed to Earth whenever you desire, with a gift of twenty thousand credits added to your account. However, there are still Corpus artifact hunts unearthing other Warframes on the asteroids past the Aphrodite Outpost. I cannot compel you to stay, but it would be helpful to us and a profitable experience for you. Go freely, Tenno.”

 

 

 

After completing Fossa (after Venera):

“Your service to our cause has been exemplary, Tenno. You have saved several of your frozen kin from the Corpus excavation sites, filled in many of the holes in my intelligence network, and eliminated a major threat before it could destabilize the system any further. You are free to move on to Earth whenever you wish, though with the Corpus in such a state of instability now it may be for the best if you remained and continued raiding their operations in the sector. Do what you think is best – thirty thousand credits and a reclaimed Morphic from Mercury have been transferred to you for your diligent work. Congratulations, Tenno. Go freely.”

 

 

 

It's pretty text-dense still, I guess, both in each scenario and in the proportion of debriefings to nodes, but it's also the second planet. I also hope my tutorial bits weren't too blatant – hopefully it was clear that there'd be a Stormbringer mod provided at some point in Mercury, probably before running Lares, and of course there's Redirection from the tutorial. It's still up to the player to figure out how to use the foundry and such, but if nothing else the various conversations here should make it clear that dual elements and mod fusion exist.

 

Also, yay, guaranteed Serration and Hornet Strike before players get shoved into Jackal/Earth! Ideally there'd be a free Toxic element at the start of Earth like with the Cryo Rounds one here, letting them combine Viral or Corrosive damage to deal with the adorable fluffy Kubrow and the decidedly less pettable Frontier elites.

 

For veteran players, I feel like I'll just do a separate post of potential mission stages, arranged like “Start,” “After Rescue,” “After Survival,” “After Defense,” and so on. These would apply to any sector easily enough, even ones that change hands because of invasions, and be totally RNG-able. It won't be comprehensive, of course, but it's a start.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Casardis

[Spikey844]

This is actually a really good idea. Would be nice for this to happen.

[Hezekiah]

Through this we would gain some form of story to the game as well, begin to flesh the narrative of the experience in subtle ways.  Definitely got my plus 1 here

[Trenggiling]

I like +1

[notlamprey]

I'd enjoy something like this, even if any cutscene or text were purely for flavor.

 

I liked the way it was done in the XCOM reboot (Enemy Unknown et. al.):

 

[Extraction Splash, showing simple objective-related mission stats]

 

[short, skippable cutscene of Skyranger touching down back at base]

 

[second Debrief Splash showing add'l info like Soldier Promotions and Injuries] - This screen accompanied by occasional voiceover lines from characters, depending on special mission end conditions like live enemy capture, casualty-free mission, etc.

 

Even if it's just for window dressing, it would do a lot for some players' immersion.

[Momoynator]

I wish I knew how to insert an upvote GIF...

[Morveyn]

Outside of the fact that the current execution of the Lotus gives me a headache, mission debreifs would be interesting to see.

[MrCranky_BR]

Reading about this idea sent me into the following thought process...

 

What if the Lotus messages were not just about the mission you played, but rather a summary of your continued effort? And then...what if it was about a certain milestone you hit, like say successfully completing 100 capture missions (random example).

 

What if then, the messages were about hitting that milestone and.... getting a reward for it?! A token of Lotus' appreciation. Think of it as a miniature version of the "Lotus Gifts" we get for Events...

 

Heh. i went further... but that's a whole new topic. So yeah, +1 OP.

[Casardis]

Reading about this idea sent me into the following thought process...

 

What if the Lotus messages were not just about the mission you played, but rather a summary of your continued effort? And then...what if it was about a certain milestone you hit, like say successfully completing 100 capture missions (random example).

 

What if then, the messages were about hitting that milestone and.... getting a reward for it?! A token of Lotus' appreciation. Think of it as a miniature version of the "Lotus Gifts" we get for Events...

 

Heh. i went further... but that's a whole new topic. So yeah, +1 OP.

 

I think this is a good idea that could also tie in with achievements (but would be a shame for those who already finished them). I'd love to hear more about it, and what other people think of it. It could then tie in with this topic's idea in terms of immersion from the Lotus' part.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Casardis

[MrCranky_BR]

I think this is a good idea that could also tie in with achievements (but would be a shame for those who already finished them). I'd love to hear more about it, and what other people think of it. It could then tie in with this topic's idea in terms of immersion from the Lotus' part.

 

I'm assuming you mean like Steam achievements? That would be cool, but I was thinking actual in-game achievements. This way, everyone starts from scratch. If there's a need to justify it in the game, let's say it's something Lotus has only recently become capable of providing.

 

Like I said, I did went further... I'll see to it that it get's a thread somewhere. XD

Edited May 27, 2014 by MrCranky_BR

[Casardis]

No I was talking about the in game achievements, but they are tied to Steam. I agree that a separated reward system might/will be better, so we all start at the same level.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Casardis

[DiabolusUrsus]

Dude... first lore, and now this? You're so demanding You're on freakin' fire! Take all my +1s. 

[Pendragon1951]

I think what would really top this would be that you are able to interact with the lotus hologram in some small way, i think that would really personalize each tenno's ship. Since we are brainstorming I thought why not:) 

[(PSN)SpiderRoll]

If Lotus debriefs us for every mission, that would be too much.  People would just skip through it when they're farming and the debriefings wouldn't feel memorable or special.  It'd be fine for story missions, first kills of a boss, and other major events, though. 

 

Sometimes, it feels like there's a bit too much Lotus and certain in-mission events should be handled by something else.  It's fine for Lotus to give us our missions and say something at the end, but it's strange that she has so much time to micromanage things and tell us so many details during the mission.  An alternate mission handler, your sentinel, or your ship's computer would be more appropriate to tell you about the level's environmental conditions or incoming units.  It could be even more awesome if the mission handler can be upgraded to provide added details.  Instead of telling you that a heavy unit is approaching, it can tell you the specifc type of unit.

[Casardis]

I don't mind the omnipresence of Lotus. What I do mind sometimes is the frequency of things she may say.

Also, if you've missed that point of my post, I said that the end mission dialogues when you extract (such as when she says "good work I am pleased of your performance") will be removed to be placed as one of the generic things she says at mission debriefing.

That way, it will be exactly as it is now, but placed after the mission, in the ship, with occasional more unique debriefing. I already said it's more of a background thing that doesn't interrupt anything, just like current end mission dialogue that she already gives. I'm pretty sure people got used to that already.

But here is an alternate suggestion: she will occasionally debrief instead of always (doesn't matter if it's the generic or in depth debrief that rolls), and if you want to know it yourself, you can activate the Lotus console manually to have her tell you when she doesn't. This is me trying to incorporate Pendragon's suggestion.

As for what you suggested, yeah that would be cool.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Casardis

[notionphil]

This is a really great atmospheric idea. Nice work Casardis!

[(PSN)SpiderRoll]

I don't mind the omnipresence of Lotus. What I do mind sometimes is the frequency of things she may say.

The Lotus and her level of presence are a bit weird to me, due to the game engine (or coding) and some other inconsistencies.  She sees us when we're sleeping.  She knows when we're awake.  She knows when we've been bad or good, yet she trolls us with strange dialogue (and loot) choices for goodness sake.

I appreciate the fact that the Lotus woke us from cryosleep and helped us escape Vor, but it seems odd for her to tell us that the galleon is on fire (and we should stay away from fire) a few minutes after we've entered the ship.  I have to wonder how present and aware she is, because she has some kind of plan for us, yet mission details are awkwardly delivered.  I don't think it's her fault, but the game isn't doing her any favors.

We get the end of mission dialogues because it's our cue to head home.  This is fine for its purpose and it isn't a problem when we're doing a rescue mission, since we only get that dialogue once (the mission ends at extraction).  For other mission types, it's a problem because it can cause her to say the same thing twice.  She'll say something when the objective is complete, then say something again when you're flying away.  Your debriefing examples would help give more variety to the things she says, and some of the results are a bit too quick, but I'd still prefer the new dialogue to be used when we're flying away.  ("Wow, Lotus.  I only caught that guy 4 minutes ago and he already talked?  You have some very effective interrogation tactics!")

To me, a debriefing is a thorough review of what happened with the mission and how my actions have changed things.  This is why I said that an after-mission Lotus chat would be appropriate for lore-related missions and other major events.  All the other missions where I'm farming for stuff don't need it, would make me tune her out faster, and make her feel less important to the story.  If I'm already expecting her to say "Yay, you won the mission!" every time, it's very likely I'll miss her talk about how my actions have changed the balance of power in the region, because I'll be taking a quick break or grabbing a cup of coffee IRL.  Perhaps the end of mission dialogue can be adjusted to inform the player that the Lotus wants to speak with you afterward, as a way to help the player catch these essential moments.  This still doesn't help with the feeling that there's too much Lotus in all the wrong places.

We're overLotused right now, and a proper dose would make her character more potent.  In my previous post, I mentioned an alternate mission handler to talk to the player about mundane details.  This would shift the silly dialogues to a character that isn't so critical to the story, since I'd be able to laugh off their fallibility.  ("Yeah, sentinel.  I'm glad you noticed the fire too.")  This also means Lotus talks to us less, and gets reserved for the really important stuff.  I don't know how DE wants to play it, though.  Lotus might be talking to us so much because they want to make it seem like she's our only friend (other than Darvo and the other Tenno).  The pile of "important stuff" needs to be reviewed, however.  She's strangely absent when it comes to ranking up.  Even though she greets us during our test, she doesn't say anything to us when we're ready to take a test and she doesn't tell us what we've earned.  A proper debriefing (and briefing) would be helpful here.

Anyhow, this post is much longer than I anticipated, so I'll summarize my thoughts.

 

TLDR Version

-  increase the end of mission dialogue options to avoid repeat phrases (separate "objective complete" and "mission complete" phrases)

-  reduce Lotus chatter in mission and delegate mundane chatter to a new character

-  Lotus informs the player of critical events only (mission objective, mission complete, G3 incoming, change of plans, etc.)

-  Lotus speaks to the players on their ship to debrief them on plot-critical missions (boss kills, ship upgrades installed, etc.)

-  Lotus notifies players when they've earned the opportunity to rank up

-  Lotus briefs players when they choose to take the test, so they can prepare for it without consulting the wiki or YouTube

-  Lotus debriefs players when they've passed their tests, informing them of the new things they've earned (at minimum, a screen should provide a list of unlocked things)

[Casardis]

Sure, that could work, but that's a bigger concern for a separate topic, I think. The idea is nice, and I'm not disagreeing with you. It's just that it goes against what I'm suggesting, which is nothing more but some slight immersion (which means you can either care or not care about what she says either way; it's there in the background just to add a bit, similar to civilian chatters in open-city games).

 

My suggestion still stands, though adjustments on Lotus' presence overall, that's something I can agree with, but not something I want to bother with too much in this topic.

 

Do you think you'll make a topic about it, if you haven't already? Your ideas are pretty solid, and can be discussed further in its own sphere. In fact, most of the things you've said here could very well be copy-pasted (with some slight adjustments to fit an OP) into a topic of your own.

 

If you do, please do link it here!

Edited May 28, 2014 by Casardis

[(PSN)SpiderRoll]

As my post grew, I was debating on whether I should make a separate post on it or not.  I'll give it another pass and see if there are other things I want to add about the Lotus and her role in our story.

 

Edit: My fork/retelling is up!  The Lotus Should Be A Boss so we can respect her authority.

Edited May 28, 2014 by (PS4)SpiderRoll

[Casardis]

Fair enough~

[silentdrumr]

I'd like to see something like this too. Hopefully it shouldn't take much from DE or perhaps they already have something like this in mind.

 

Either way, great idea and all I can really say is +1

[Casardis]

I do hope they had something like this in mind, but you never know.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Casardis

[PixalatedVortex]

I love it

[Phaenur]

Here's another thought that could greatly enhance the new player experience and add motivation for both first-timers and vets alike.  Lotus, plus a variety of other contacts (the Bek family, what's-his-name from the Red Veil, Gen. Ruk, representatives from future minor factions, whoever fits) could use these debriefings to establish a storyline for each sector.  To help with the phenomenon of being "overLotused," as SpiderRoll put it, these would only pop up every few nodes during the first run of each planet, explaining either why you're about to go to the next mission before something like a Defense or Sabotage or the results of a Rescue, Capture, Survival - that's generic, but you get the idea.  Many of these would be fairly open-ended, a sort of Schrödinger's Gun where you can go to any of the nodes you've just unlocked and it still fits (go down one branch of the map first and ignore the other half, say in Venus, and when you're done with one of the feet Lotus will say she's uncovered a pressing reason for you to go to wherever you ignored).  In fact, these could be tied to personalized alerts that provide core mods (shields, health, stamina, energy/power effectiveness, and raw and elemental damage) as the player progresses through the system.  The goal isn't to hold their hand, only to motivate them to keep playing and give them a plot reason to explore the map in addition to the material ones.  I'm having a hard time coming up with a good written example right now, unfortunately, but I'll be back once I've taken a good hard stare at the system map and slammed my head against a dialogue flowchart for a few hours until the pain goes away.

 

As for veteran players, there's no reason the same system can't become a sacred vessel for Most Holy Random Number God.  If properly written, much like the examples you provided in your first post, a series of missions in a single sector could mesh together quite nicely.  There'd be a few constraints attached to any given mission, probably, so that one line didn't lead to something totally nonsensical, but even there that's really more a matter of phrasing than of actual content (quick example: Rescue->Survival might be something like "now that you've rescued the hostage <faction> took, it's time to take the offensive.  Empty their convoys while they have no way to strike back," or "the Red Veil prisoner you retrieved mentioned that the cell in <planet name here> is starved for resources.  Provide a diversion while we target a major treasure ship to aid our allies," but borrowing one sentence from each would conflict).  Again, these could be provided by Lotus, Darvo, a minor faction representative, or really pretty much anyone, and could give guaranteed rewards for completion, kind of a proto-Cells model.  This could help people who've been consistently screwed by the drop tables get some resource pack, mod, or whatever with at least some pretense of reliability.  Considering the potential length of these personalized mini-events, reward tables on par with the current Suspicious Shipment drops seem to be in order.

 

Adding some permanent, specific lore behind missions on each planet would also help immersion with other gameplay types, specifically Invasions.  If we knew what was at stake in each sector beyond a few hundred thousand cruisers, galleons, and/or rocks, it wouldn't be hard at all for players to develop a narrative surrounding each invasion.  Adding in sector-specific employer lines would help with this too, of course - in fact, recruiting messages could be yet another source of amusing and/or interesting chatter on either the "police scanner" DE mentioned in the stream or the holo-message concept you're using here.  It's not like I need to tell you of all people how powerful unbiased lore and observable characteristics in-game can be (Hek, just look at the collective dropped jaw that Alad's science fair project has caused, just from what's displayed graphically in game and the way the missions progress), but I figured it was definitely worth bringing up in this specific context too.

 

Again, I'll try to come up with a sample first-time mission sequence, probably for Venus, but don't hold your breath.  Hopefully it won't be too long, but considering what my writer's block has been like these days...yeah.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Phaenur

[Casardis]

Good read. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject, as well as bringing other things to the table!

 

Again, I'll try to come up with a sample first-time mission sequence, probably for Venus, but don't hold your breath.  Hopefully it won't be too long, but considering what my writer's block has been like these days...yeah.

 

Take your time, but if you do release it, please link it here. I'd like to give it a read.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Casardis