Sidearms 2.0

[[DE]Momaw]

We can equip a primary weapon and a secondary weapon.  Or can we?  In reality....

 

1.) Secondary weapons are extremely powerful and are competitive with, if not outright beating, most primary weapons for damage output

 

2.) The pace of the game generally precludes carrying primary and secondary weapons that complement eachother since it takes so long to switch between them.  For example if you have a shotgun as your primary, it seems logical that you might like to carry something with good long range performance to offset the shotgun's short range but by the time you pull out your long ranged sidearm the target is probably already dead or you could have closed the range so much that the shotgun would work fine.

 

3.) It's faster and easier to reload most primaries than it is to switch to sidearm if you empty your magazine.

 

 

... For these reasons, in practical gameplay terms we really end up equipping two primary weapons. To address this I have a suggestions that might make things a bit more interesting and fluid.  I do not want to get into major nerfs so I'll just skirt that "pistols > rifles"  balance problem and hit the other problem which is transition speed.

 

I propose:

a.) Tapping your weapon switch key toggles between your primary and melee weapons.

 

b.) Holding your weapon switch key brings out your secondary weapon.  This action works whether you are holding your primary or melee, and is nearly instant. Releasing the key holsters your secondary, also nearly instant.

 

While you are holding your weapon switch key your secondary does all the things you expect it do using all the same controls for firing, aiming, and reloading as it does now.

 

The intent is to allow the secondary weapon to be used quickly in situations where you need to change your tactics for a moment.  If your Soma goes 'click' instead of 'bang', if you are holding a shotgun and the situation calls for a single long range shot on a high value target, then hold weapon switch and use your secondary for the moment you need it. And because this also would work while wielding melee, it would allow a reasonable implementation of the sword-and-gun style that so many people keep asking for by pulling out your pistol as required between slices and blocks.

 

For balance and the continued sanity of the animation team, possibly only single handed secondaries should be remains as secondaries.  So a Vasto would be a secondary weapon because it's used in one hand, but the Dual Vasto would be upgraded to a primary weapon (with all the same stats and still using pistol ammo) because it requires both hands and is more potent than its single counterpart.

 

Personally I think this would add quite a bit of fluidity to the game's weaponry and open up some new gameplay styles and equipment selection considerations.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Momaw

[Inquisitioner]

I disagree regarding the hold to switch towards sidearm, the point with secondary weapons is traditionally to use them when out of ammo or its faster to draw them then to reload your main weapon.

[Psychotoxin]

agreed. have a cookie and a +1.

Pulling out a pistol to shoot a dude in the face, because he turned his back on you and is just barely out of melee range.

Or as you suggested - Soma goes *click*, and out comes the Acrid/Vasto/Lex to tear a new one to the enemy. Downside - when your weapon runs out of ammo - you`ve got two guns to reload now.

[DjaAkh]

I think, this is an interesting idea. Not vital to the game, but interesting.

I don't think, most players use their secondary to be used along side their primary (like the shotgun / far range pistol example). I guess it's more like Inquisitioner and Psychotoxin wrote: you use it, when you are out of ammo or you're expecting zanuka, g3 or the stalker.

But still I think, something like this might be fun, because it would give a new function to the secondary weapons. More varity in gameplay = more fun, imho :)

[Pavelord]

i like the idea, but this crossed my mind, i move using "wasd" and change weapons with "f", if i want to shoot my secondary while moving to the right, i need to hold "d" and "f" at the same time? 

[V0LK]

Only thing I ask for - is faster switch time. Current animation is ridiculously long and as OP mentioned, it takes less time to actually reload a weapon. This is just plain wrong!

[Novocrane]

If this came along at the same time as an ammo rework, I'd be impressed.

[KF5AQX]

I feel many games miss the point of the whole side arm versus primary relationship.

 

A pistol is not a smaller rifle you carry for fun. It's a small weapon you carry for when your rifle CAN'T function. Run out of ammo in the middle of a fight with no cover nearby? Side arm to cover your escape. Rifle jams, no time to clear? Side arm. Close quarters, longer barrel doesn't let you move well? Side arm.

 

In games, most of these points are moot, but I still prefer a sidearm to actually, you know, be usable quickly. A faster draw option would be very nice.

[Symbiont71]

i like the fact that the switch weapon animations in warframe take longer than in other games. It seems pretty logical and intuitive that you need to put your current weapon away before taking another one out. Also, we do have a mod that increases the swap speed.

 

But

 

I also like your "melee 1.0" approach on this. Use it when you need it and get back to your main afterwards. But making dual pistols "primary", even if it sounds "natural", it isn't really...

 

Let me give an example: let's say i use dual vipers as main and Lex as secondary (complementing eachother). One of them will need to go on my back and it kinda feels like the vipers would, so i can have Lex closer to my hands at all times. I hold my swap key and..what exactly happens? Do i put the viper in my right hand back on my back and take out the Lex? Do i put them both away? 

 

It's really not that fast unless there's no swapping animation like in the quick melee case.

 

Not sure what to say about all this...

 

@the people that say "we need faster draw": speed holster aura. Increases the speed to 80% to all party members and only one player needs to have it.

[Liljeman]

Maybe the time it takes to switch to secondary could be decreased while switching to primary could be slightly increased. Also remember there's an aura called speed holster, 4 of them are riddicilous in a party but, there are other auras much more powerful regarding the playstyle in Warframe.

 

Downside - when your weapon runs out of ammo - you`ve got two guns to reload now.

Most secondaries have a somewhat quick reload speed and there are 2 mods that can decrease their reload speed compared to rifles one Fast Hands. As for Shotguns we got 2 mods that increase the reload time.

[NotBot]

@the people that say "we need faster draw": speed holster aura. Increases the speed to 80% to all party members and only one player needs to have it.

 

Speed Holster shouldn't be the solution to having the sidearm drawn at a reasonable pace.

 

If anything, Speed Holster should be like the

, rather than being a necessary element to make mid-combat weapon switching reasonable. Edited June 5, 2014 by NotBot

[Symbiont71]

Speed Holster shouldn't be the solution to having the sidearm drawn at a reasonable pace.

 

If anything, Speed Holster should be like the

, rather than being a necessary element to make mid-combat weapon switching reasonable.

 

We are used to the "spawn in hand" type of weapon swap in most of the shooter games out there. Warframe stands out with it's "realistic" approach, something i respect them for.

 

As long as sidearms are just as good and sometimes even better than primaries, i think it's all good the way it is.

Why? Because you still have the option to spawn a melee weapon in your hands when you need that quick attack.

 

In my opinion, if changes are to be made, the whole system must be changed.

[S7ORM]

Personally, I most often only use secondaries with melee. That way, when I can't melee an enemy (out of reach, large crowd), I need only tap "f" to switch to a gun. It works for me.


I would dislike having tap "f" go immediately to melee.

[eprstt]

useful idea. one thing bad - the same idea visit me late =)

 

and strange thing: players love to see new skins but denied to improve fight mechanics. that's really strange for me. +1 to TS.

[Coatduck]

I think this is a super interesting idea, and while it may need refinement I agree that it should be more viable to use a secondary. I basically end up using ONLY my primary or ONLY my secondary and it'd be nice to be able to unload a clip from your supra and if you're still being wrecked by a gunner you don't have to sit there and reload or wait for you to switch weapons but just seamlessly empty your clip and finish it off with a few marlok blasts.

[Kokurokoki]

Implement a Quickshooting mechanic to complement the Quick Melee.

 

Pressing a key will allow the Warframe to quickly draw his or her secondary and use it while still holding onto the primary.  It would be instant and allow quick access to a secondary.  The only drawback would be that the player would be unable to reload, thus you would need to know when and where to do it.  Pressing the switch key while the weapon is drawn would allow the player to switch over to the secondary and continue using it in a similar manner to real life tactical drills where operators continue using their secondary to engage targets when they don't have the opportunity to reload.

[Evan-0-matic]

We are used to the "spawn in hand" type of weapon swap in most of the shooter games out there. Warframe stands out with it's "realistic" approach, something i respect them for.

 

As long as sidearms are just as good and sometimes even better than primaries, i think it's all good the way it is.

Why? Because you still have the option to spawn a melee weapon in your hands when you need that quick attack.

 

In my opinion, if changes are to be made, the whole system must be changed.

You're wrong in one very big way, bud.

Have you ever seen a trained professional handle a primary and secondary weapon? I'm talking a Ranger, Spec Ops, and/ a SEAL team operator... They can switch almost instantly between any of their weapons. This is mainly because of primary weapon 'slings' which allow them to drop their rifle/ shotgun and immediately unholster their secondary.

Tenno don't use weapon slings, that's obvious. BUT we have something better... Our WF suits can hold weapons anywhere on their surface! Call it space magic or simple magnetism. So if DE would fallow this already in-game function we should be able to drop our primary, have it stick to our chest/ lower waist and then almost instantly draw our secondary.

Check out some YouTube 'operator' videos... You'll see what I mean.

[Yazeth]

Alright idea, but I would rather see DE lower the time it takes to switch to a secondary instead. Just by a bit, though.

[Novocrane]

If it's quick-fire, I'd rather see the 'frame just one-hand the primary while drawing / shooting / reholstering the secondary.

[(PSN)atpbx]

The only thing I want in regards to secondaries is the option to quick fire while you have a melee equipped the same way you can quick melee.