Trinity Feedback

[CubedOobleck]

Trinity is supposed to be the healer of a team, but ironically she works best as a tank instead.

WELL OF LIFE
The main problem with this skill is that it targets only one enemy which makes it hard for players in need of health to notice it is active; because it targets only one enemy it's also useless if you aren't fighting ancient, a big grinner or a boss. Another problem is that Trinity can just use Blessing instead because energy consumption is the last of her problems.
Well of Life would be more effective as an AoE or if it simply turned every player's gun in a life sapper. Another nice tweak would be if it regenerated your shields when you are shooting shielded enemies (right now shooting a shield doesn't regenerate anything). The health gain cap is ridicule, only 100 health when most warframes have at least 300 without mods, really the cap is just unneeded.

ENERGY VAMPIRE
Half of the reason Trinity is broken is that she never runs out of energy and I don't understand how this wasn't foreseen. I think this skill just shouldn't regenerate any energy for any Trinity in a team, the energy-gain cap could then be removed (with some damage-to- energy adjustments of course). Because this skill is also single target it suffers from the same issues I mentioned for Well of Life.

LINK
If I had to pick the most out of place skill between all 48 this would be it: why can a healer become invulnerable? But theme aside, it's also the other half of the reason this warframe is broken because in combination to Energy Vampire you are invincible 24/7. I can't but think one thing: replace it. Why not a skill that recovers downed players across the map? Or if Trinity really must have a skill to get out of tight situations why not something like Excalibur's Radial Blind?

BLESSING
This is the only truly good support skill Trinity has, it completely recovers your team's shield and health and grants a short immunity as well. The only change I would apply to this ultimate is for it to affect everything that is friendly, including hostages and cryopods.

MOD POLARITY
Besides the 4 skill slots Trinity has 2 defense slots and I can't but think that's it's completely out of character. The only other warframes with 2 defense slots are Rhino and FrostP, but on them it made sense as they is supposed to be sturdy. Trinity, on the other hand, is supposed to be frail, so at least one of the polarities should be changed to something else.
 
EXTRA

Team info is crucial for a healer to be effective, finally the Z button is a toggle, but I think it should show the shields besides the health. Also please move that piece of UI somewhere else, it covers both the chat and communication with Lotus and bosses.
 

Ash feedback - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/17085-ash-feedback/?p=152282
Banshee feedback - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/46387-banshee-feedback/?p=469683
Frost feedback - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/42221-frost-feedback/

Loki feedback - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/64930-loki-feedback/

Nyx feedback - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/37656-nyx-feedback/
Rhino feedback - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/19790-rhino-feedback/?p=176272
Saryn feedback - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/63519-saryn-feedback/

Vauban feedback - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/68822-vauban-feedback/

Stats overview - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/43702-stats-overview/

Edited June 23, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[Satori_Mind]

Trinity is my favorite frame by far, but I have to agree with all major points. This is a fair and balanced review. I can accept that she shouldn't be the invincible, energy-spewing juggernaut that she is. Though I do enjoy the 2 defense slots considering she's made of tissue paper.

[CubedOobleck]

Trinity is my favorite frame by far, but I have to agree with all major points. This is a fair and balanced review. I can accept that she shouldn't be the invincible, energy-spewing juggernaut that she is. Though I do enjoy the 2 defense slots considering she's made of tissue paper.

Ty and I also enjoy those defense polarity, but still of out of place :P Edited April 7, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[Satori_Mind]

Ty and I also enjoy those defense polarity, but still of out of place :P

I'm not sure what could replace one or both. You'd just end up with fantastic discounts on mods that are way too good on her. Like Continuity or Streamline. Taking them off completely would definitely put Trinity a step below other frames in overall ability.

[Ths9]

Hey guys I don't understand how do you chain energy vamp/link infinitely. From what I know energy vamp costs 50, link costs 75, so total 125? Energy vamp MAX 100, so you net loss 25?? I dont have streamline, so maybe only with streamline can you inf invincibility? Can anyone correct me?

[cy3160]

the devs should make a ping for help button or cover me button

or it exist and i just do not know yet

heck, i only learned how to sell multiple mods today

[-GG-Sinevultu]

Hey guys I don't understand how do you chain energy vamp/link infinitely. From what I know energy vamp costs 50, link costs 75, so total 125? Energy vamp MAX 100, so you net loss 25?? I dont have streamline, so maybe only with streamline can you inf invincibility? Can anyone correct me?

Streamline and Energy Syphon! :D I am crafting this Warframe cuz i found Energy Syphon!

p.s. ES is awesome since skills can turn the tides of almost every battle, just an example: with my excalibur prime i managed to rack like 33 powers used in a single run (and around 75% of damage in a 4 men team) meantime others of my team were at around 10 powers used, so i am planning to advice other tennos when a match start, they could take profit of this artifact since the buff is shared ^^. Some warframe also needs it, think to ASH which has expensive skills and low energy pool (ultimate skills of ASH needs 125 energy menatime him energypool is of only 150).

[Ashgan9]

I agree for the most part with everything you said.

possibly a solution to Well of Life would be to remove the cast time so that its instant, but I also like your solution of giving everyone on the team a lifesteal for a bit.

[Ths9]

So you need Streamline mod? Oh well, I've been farming Corpus for long yet I don't get a single Streamline...

[(NSW)123er432]

In regards to your WoL fix (this could also apply to Energy Vamp), why not simply make it so when the target of the skill dies, the siphon switches to a nearby enemy like with Link?

This, to me, seems like the most logical fix to Trinity, followed after by Making WoL heal Shields because Health is hardly ever the real problem in fights making the skill hardly ever worth using.

[CubedOobleck]

In regards to your WoL fix (this could also apply to Energy Vamp), why not simply make it so when the target of the skill dies, the siphon switches to a nearby enemy like with Link?

This, to me, seems like the most logical fix to Trinity, followed after by Making WoL heal Shields because Health is hardly ever the real problem in fights making the skill hardly ever worth using.

I've kept playing with trinity and I've realized that the other problem with the first 2 skills is that unless you are fighting a boss your team will rarely notice in time that a specific enemy can heal them or give them energy, if the skills moved to a different target when the first died it would definitely help, but only one enemy at a time still feels like an unneeded bottleneck.

Regarding well of life regenerating the shields I felt it would overlap with blessing too much so I didn't suggest it, but you gave me another possible solution: well of life will make you regenerate shields if you are shooting a shielded enemy and life if the enemy doesn't have an active shield (right now shooting a shield doesn't regenerate any life).

Edited April 10, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[PiggySaysWhat]

I think an idea of well of life or energy vamp being an actual AOE effect would be nice. So that it gives the health/energy for any enemies hit within its AOE. I think this would probably be too hard to make sure the cap is constant no matter how many enemies are within it, but still I think something like that would make it more effective against non-bosses while still keeping it useful with bosses. Maybe even adding more strategy as you'd try to keep the enemy within the area.

As for Blessing, someone else suggested being able to toggle on the teammate health bars onto the UI. I think this would be a godsend for Trin as well as anyone who wanted to play a more defensive oriented frame/build and keep an eye on their fellow players.

[Sitzpinkler]

Figured I'd provide some feedback/my views on trinity, as I have spent far too much time on this frame.

 

I agree that Well of Life is relatively useless.  In fact, it will be the first thing to go when I need more points.  An AoE would be helpful, or a link jump might be fine, but there is a life cap to it.  This makes it extra weak.  Ranking it up and gaining a duration increase/having continuity is actually detrimental because of the healing received cap.  Which leads me to the next skill:

 

Energy vampire.  This skill is wonderfully overpowered for what it is worth.  After talking with someone the other day I came across the notion that ranking up this skill is relatively detrimental.  The shorter the skill = more frequent casting = more energy.  My Hek gains all 100 energy from it in a single shot.  If I can cast that every 6 seconds, and my link lasts 8, you can effectively get 200 energy per 125 cast (to answer the fellow's earlier question on infinite energy regardless of streamline).  This is also based off of not having continuity.  For the sake of argument, equipping continuty (max) is 30% increase.  If we use this, it would increase link to 10 seconds (rounded down) and energy vamp to 8 seconds (rounded up).  If you max out energy vampire, you actually hurt yourself with continuity, because you end up at 12 seconds (9 + 2.7 rounded up).  If your link lasts 10, and your energy vamp with a cap of 100 lasts 12, you are at a loss.

 

Link is a wonderful skill, just out of place on a healer, I agree.

 

Blessing is my (honestly) favorite skill on Trinity.  You can full heal yourself and other tenno with a single cast, and give immunity.  Because of the infinite energy, there is no reason to use well of life.  The only thing well has over blessing is the cast time > impact time of blessing.  I've farmed bosses where I would cast energy vamp, get energy, cast vamp, get energy, hit blessing.  Every 12-16 or so seconds you are giving yourself and the other tenno 200 energy, and a full heal (health and shields) and invulnerability for a few seconds.  When used correctly, with slightly coordinated teammates, this is a truly potent combo.

 

To just finish this with mod slots, and what the "feel" of Trinity is, she is a tank.  A tank with heals, thus, a paladin (in the sci-fi traditional sense).  You don't die, you heal everyone, and you continually feed your allies with energy.  Perhaps this is the intent, thus the vitality and redirection mod slots.  If the character is intended to be a support healer, then I would be scratching my head with this as well.

 

To quote a clan-mate: "I don't get why no one plays Trinity, this is completely overpowered.  I can't die, I can farm anything, take on anything, and never have problems."  Aside from the pesky energy stealing infested (which don't leech during link), it's relatively true.

[SonicDoragon]

I've done this on another post but here is fine too.

 

 

Well of life: boost max hp gained per mod rank, affect multiple enemies in an area from initial target (maybe around 5-7 meter radius at max)

Energy Vampire: Same as is only reduce what Trinity receives from 100 energy to 65-75 ( at max level, not including mods) it's clearly meant to be a team skill not "solo-god mode". (A better use for it is take WoL's effect i've introduced and add it to this as well, thus multi-targeting)

Link: reduce damage to where you only take 20-30% initial damage (you still get hurt just not a lot) and reflect 80-70% of it back to the attacker. suddenly not a tank and it's an emergency skill (probably as intended).

Blessing: at max level revives anyone downed, otherwise fine. (It should affect escort target's too, but that's just me, they're too squishie)

[CubedOobleck]

Figured I'd provide some feedback/my views on trinity, as I have spent far too much time on this frame.

 

I agree that Well of Life is relatively useless.  In fact, it will be the first thing to go when I need more points.  An AoE would be helpful, or a link jump might be fine, but there is a life cap to it.  This makes it extra weak.  Ranking it up and gaining a duration increase/having continuity is actually detrimental because of the healing received cap.  Which leads me to the next skill:

 

Energy vampire.  This skill is wonderfully overpowered for what it is worth.  After talking with someone the other day I came across the notion that ranking up this skill is relatively detrimental.  The shorter the skill = more frequent casting = more energy.  My Hek gains all 100 energy from it in a single shot.  If I can cast that every 6 seconds, and my link lasts 8, you can effectively get 200 energy per 125 cast (to answer the fellow's earlier question on infinite energy regardless of streamline).  This is also based off of not having continuity.  For the sake of argument, equipping continuty (max) is 30% increase.  If we use this, it would increase link to 10 seconds (rounded down) and energy vamp to 8 seconds (rounded up).  If you max out energy vampire, you actually hurt yourself with continuity, because you end up at 12 seconds (9 + 2.7 rounded up).  If your link lasts 10, and your energy vamp with a cap of 100 lasts 12, you are at a loss.

I hadn't looked at it that way, this further show just how flawed the duration is in combination with a cap limit.

 

To just finish this with mod slots, and what the "feel" of Trinity is, she is a tank.  A tank with heals, thus, a paladin (in the sci-fi traditional sense).  You don't die, you heal everyone, and you continually feed your allies with energy.  Perhaps this is the intent, thus the vitality and redirection mod slots.  If the character is intended to be a support healer, then I would be scratching my head with this as well.

Yeah lately I've been thinking that the original concept really was something different and just happened to stray towards support at the last minute, Trinity used to have a Rhino-like speed too.

If trinity had 150 armor, 150 base health and really weak shields (like 50 or 75) she would be a very interesting to play imo and I could see her as an actual paladin meat shield, well of life would be key to keep that health up. But right now she is this mixed design that doesn't quite work and is OP at the same time.

[bitlard]

Energy vampire only works if you're up against bosses or ancients and your teammates don't kill them before you get a chance to leech the energy. I've been playing trinity for a while and it does take some skill to choose the right ancient to put energy vampire on. If you put it on a low hp ancient that's going to die soon, you won't get the chance to leech the energy, and you'll end up wasting 50 energy. If you put it on an ancient that your teammate is going to kill with a burst of his BOAR in 2 seconds, it's also not going to work if you need 1.5s to charge and swing your scindo.  

 

Then you also have to constantly keep up link. One second off and you could risk getting disrupted and losing all your energy. With the casting time (feels like about 1.5s), it isn't really all that easy. Since you're casting link and energy vampire about every 10 seconds, you're only swinging / shooting every 7 seconds. This is basically a trade-off IMO. Lower DPS in exchange for survivability.

[halofury36]

I think the real overpowered use of Link and Energy Vampire is solo play or well coordinated groups though. In solo, you just never die, and when in a well coordinated group, suddenly you can refill your energy and then boost others quick - with or without heavy units.

 

Even if all you did was Energy Vampire a weak guy, suddenly you got your energy back. This is most obvious on high rate of fire weapons or on shotguns.

[Kespertive]

She could use at least one skill that deals some damage, one only to keep her role as support.

[Haldos]

I'd say the biggest reason they gave her an invulnerable ability is simply because of how fragile she is without it.

 

While I do feel the tactic of Link and Energy Vampire is over powered, all Warframes are designed to be able to stand on their own (Even if they're a support class) and I don't think Trinity would have a prayer without it. I see what you're going for with the Radial blind type ability to replace it but I don't think it would be enough, especially as a 3rd ability.

 

I'd rather keep Link as is and have a healer that doesn't need to be guarded all the time. I think the speedy high action type of game Warframe is doesn't conduct well with a slow fragile frame like the Trinity you would have her be. 

 

As for Well of life, I've given it a lot of thought and I don't see why it couldn't be a single target heal ability. Cursor over an ally, hit 1, instant health for cheap. It would allow her to still retain her role as healer but make the ability a little more useful, in my opinion.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Haldos

[nekrojiji]

 

I've done this on another post but here is fine too.

 

 

Well of life: boost max hp gained per mod rank, affect multiple enemies in an area from initial target (maybe around 5-7 meter radius at max)

Energy Vampire: Same as is only reduce what Trinity receives from 100 energy to 65-75 ( at max level, not including mods) it's clearly meant to be a team skill not "solo-god mode". (A better use for it is take WoL's effect i've introduced and add it to this as well, thus multi-targeting)

Link: reduce damage to where you only take 20-30% initial damage (you still get hurt just not a lot) and reflect 80-70% of it back to the attacker. suddenly not a tank and it's an emergency skill (probably as intended).

Blessing: at max level revives anyone downed, otherwise fine. (It should affect escort target's too, but that's just me, they're too squishie)

 

if you make trinity be usefull only to others noone will play her anymore. I definitely woudn't play her. Would you?!

 

And as for those who think she is invincible ...... ok remake her so that she's not invincible .....but than you must give her damage. Her skills don't deal any damage.

 

I am still in the balance: to claim my Trinity or not!

[Dasmir]

Healer ? every time  i see a trinity the only thing it does its to give a fuk about the team and start spamming only link 24Hrs...

[CubedOobleck]

if you make trinity be usefull only to others noone will play her anymore. I definitely woudn't play her. Would you?!

 

And as for those who think she is invincible ...... ok remake her so that she's not invincible .....but than you must give her damage. Her skills don't deal any damage.

 

I am still in the balance: to claim my Trinity or not!

I think she essentially needs to be more useful to others rather than her self. Right now her first 2 skills aren't beneficial to your team unless you are against a boss and the 3rd skill is only for self preservation and can be spammed indefinitely. The 4th skill is all she's got for true support but it's not enough.

 

She doesn't need to have a damage skill it's not like she doesn't have guns, a good stun skill would be a lot more useful to avoid damage and wouldn't be as exploitable as Link

 

Healer ? every time  i see a trinity the only thing it does its to give a fuk about the team and start spamming only link 24Hrs...

Perhaps you didn't read beyond the first half of the first sentence?

[Dasmir]

I think she essentially needs to be more useful to others rather than her self. Right now her first 2 skills aren't beneficial to your team unless you are against a boss and the 3rd skill is only for self preservation and can be spammed indefinitely. The 4th skill is all she's got for true support but it's not enough.

 

She doesn't need to have a damage skill it's not like she doesn't have guns, a good stun skill would be a lot more useful to avoid damage and wouldn't be as exploitable as Link

 

Perhaps you didn't read beyond the first half of the first sentence?

 

Im tired of reading people saying trinity Enery vamp and Life siphon are useless against trash mobs, she is a support, she WANT to waste 50 - 25 energy so the other guy can insta recover all life and energy (100 enery..) now the 90% of the trinitys just run around screaming " LOL im GOD !"  and using the ulti when half team/the whole team/the guy screaming heal are/is already dead is another thing.

[Second_Measure]

The first two abilities don't work well in areas with a high count of easily dispatchable enemies. (Lancer/Trooper/Ballista, Charger/Runner/Leaper, Crewmans/MOAs) because they usually don't live long enough to have the abilities being useful. Either they get taken down really fast with powerful weapons in 1 or 2 shots/attacks or the abilities of the other warframes dispatch them en masse in a matter of seconds (which most Warframe ults do).

 

But first of all, the UI needs a fix to display the Health/Energy bars on the active combat HUD before anything else can be done.

 

Second, my though about that is that when you 'tag' the enemies with one of the both abilities, they would be allowed to live despite the damage they suffer for the duration of the WoL/EV, letting the others beat on that enemy for health/energy, which then the enemy end up exploding in the most spectacular ways. Kind of like a buff that lets you overkill someone.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Second_Measure

[SonicDoragon]

if you make trinity be usefull only to others noone will play her anymore. I definitely woudn't play her. Would you?!

 

And as for those who think she is invincible ...... ok remake her so that she's not invincible .....but than you must give her damage. Her skills don't deal any damage.

 

I am still in the balance: to claim my Trinity or not!

she's suppose to be a healer, which means shes a support. The only reason anyone plays as of now is cause of the broken energy link combo. at least this way people cant abuse it and will use her for her support ability and as of now her skills are only good on bosses. except blessing.

 

and obviously I would I was the one who suggested it.