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Make Argon Into A Prime Token System


notionphil
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The dilution in the Void tables is honestly punitive; yes, RNG extends play, but has no guaranteed end. RNG needs a safety valve for those who actually want to enjoy playing the game, and are willing to spend serious time grinding. The feedback is clear - player dissatisfaction is very high with the current mechanic.

 

I see a lot of requests for a token system, but no real solutions. What's the hitch? Simple; if players can stockpile tokens, they'll be able to instantly acquire new content, which runs counter to many, many things that are important to WF. A token needs to be something void related, and something that won't shortcut RNG by being stockpiled or easy to acquire.

 

Then I realized, that token already exists! We're just not using it for anything.

 

Argon is a perishable, void only resource that drops while you're grinding the Void for primes. It IS a token. It can't be stockpiled, and the only time you'd ever end up with a lot of Argon is while you're grinding the Void.

 

If we could exchange Argon for Prime parts and BPs in some sort of 'Darvo' black market tab in the marketplace, this would instantly create a safety valve for Void table RNG.

 

EX: You've run 50 missions looking for that Rhino Prime helm without success. However, you've picked up 7 Argon along the way. Well, now you can take your 7 Argon to Darvos Black Market (a simple tab in the marketplace) and purchase a Rhino Prime helm.

 

DE would make the rarity of each item determine it's cost in Argon. As you can see, these Argon costs will not be trivial. But with a long enough play session grinding for a particular item, players will eventually acquire the Argon needed, and be able to purchase that item if dealt yet a punishing series of bad hand by RNG.

 

EDIT (suggestion from DecapatatingJim) - Darvo may not get his hands on the new 'shinys' instantly. They may take a couple days or more, so there's no point in stockpiling Argon prior to a release date.

Edited by notionphil
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I actually do like this idea a lot and I think it really would fix the issue with people complaining about RNG. My only complaint is people who buy resource drop boosts might have a serious unfair advantage. Just something to consider, but overall I really like the idea.

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Don't know how I feel about it being Argon specifically, given that it's possible to play an entire mission and not get a single one, but then again, one has a higher chance of getting an Argon in the Void than anything useful, so this has my upvote.

 

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@Kade974
Its the standard though: pay to avoid/lessen the grind.
And that's all that they are doing.  Nothing really "unfair" about it.

@notionphil
This would work for the token system.
I do agree that it needs to be something that cant be stockpiled and isn't the easiest to get (which is what argon is on both counts) to avoid people complaining that they are just instantly getting everything and nothing takes time to get.
I just wish I could upvote this idea more than once.

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Have you considered skewing drop tables to take into account previous drops in Def. and Surv. the more drops of 1 item you get the less the % chance to get another drop of the same item and the increase % chance to get one of the other drops. It's still RNG, it's still farming, but less of the pure RNG system which is creating so many problems

 
The RNG could have been addressed in other game types in multiple ways.
 
Bringing interception and rescue missions to the Void.
Derelict drop tables being used for older Prime equipment or T4 keys placed there. 
The removal of drop table duplicate items
Credit and Recourse drops in the game, the same with Mod cores in T4.
 
But I agree, that the RNG needs a release valve of some sort as this problem isn't going to go away. 
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I actually do like this idea a lot and I think it really would fix the issue with people complaining about RNG. My only complaint is people who buy resource drop boosts might have a serious unfair advantage. Just something to consider, but overall I really like the idea.

Probably one solution would be to remove Argon as a resource and put it into another category so the boosters don't allow a higher chance for a drop.

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Okay, I agree with the idea.

But there's one problem I see.

What if I want a new Loki Prime part that's in the T4 (I believe).

So instead of farming for T4 keys and then grinding it out there, I go to a T1 Survival with a Nekros and farm Argon Crystals. What stops me from using those ones to buy that Loki Prime piece?

It is unfair to those who go and grind in the T4, and obviously, those who do get Crystals faster than T1s. But the problem is still there.

I have no solution to it, just pointing it out.

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Okay, I agree with the idea.

But there's one problem I see.

What if I want a new Loki Prime part that's in the T4 (I believe).

So instead of farming for T4 keys and then grinding it out there, I go to a T1 Survival with a Nekros and farm Argon Crystals. What stops me from using those ones to buy that Loki Prime piece?

It is unfair to those who go and grind in the T4, and obviously, those who do get Crystals faster than T1s. But the problem is still there.

I have no solution to it, just pointing it out.

 

Appreciably increased Argon drop rate for each tier.  Higher tier players (can) still get what they want faster.

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Appreciably increased Argon drop rate for each tier.  Higher tier players (can) still get what they want faster.

Yes, but still, do you argue it's easier to get a T1 key from Venera, go farm a bunch for a while and still end up with enough Argon or getting a whole team to take on T4 level enemies (which I haven't experienced yet, so I can't say much about the difficulty).

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-snip-

 

Appreciably increased Argon drop rate for each tier.  Higher tier players (can) still get what they want faster.

Only add new prime things to the black market a week or two after they release. Going with the Darvo theme, it makes no sense for him to inexplicably  and instantly get the new shines before we've had a chance, considering we're the ones with unlimited access to the void without fear of the Neural sentry. Darvo would theoretically have to find someone who can access the void, with whom he can obtain the parts from. It makes sense to have a time delay on the release to Darvo actually getting a stockpile of Prime parts.

 

It also stops people just getting a stockpile of Argon the day before a new Prime is released, and buying it the moment it comes out. Players will have to either grind it out or wait a week or two, and get new crystals, since all the stockpiled ones would have long expired.

Edited by DecapitatingJim
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Yes, but still, do you argue it's easier to get a T1 key from Venera, go farm a bunch for a while and still end up with enough Argon or getting a whole team to take on T4 level enemies (which I haven't experienced yet, so I can't say much about the difficulty).

 

It would be easier, yes, but it would take longer.  Not "smash your face into an RNG wall" longer, but there would be a noticeable gap in wait times that some folks might not be willing to deal with.  I haven't touched T4, but I hear it's difficult, so Argon could drop more frequently there.  Build up their stock faster.

 

Only add new prime things to the black market a week or two after they release. Going with the Darvo theme, it makes no sense for him to inexplicably get the new shines before we've had a chance, considering we're the ones with unlimited access to the void without fear of the Neural sentry.

 

Also stops people just getting a stockpile of Argon after a new Prime is announced to be released, and buying it the moment it comes out. Have to either grind it out or wait a week or two., and get new crystals, since all the stockpiled ones would have long expired.

 

Also acceptable.  I could live with that.

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It would be easier, yes, but it would take longer.  Not "smash your face into an RNG wall" longer, but there would be a noticeable gap in wait times that some folks might not be willing to deal with.  I haven't touched T4, but I hear it's difficult, so Argon could drop more frequently there.  Build up their stock faster.

 

-

 

Also acceptable.  I could live with that.

 

 

 

Only add new prime things to the black market a week or two after they release. Going with the Darvo theme, it makes no sense for him to inexplicably  and instantly get the new shines before we've had a chance, considering we're the ones with unlimited access to the void without fear of the Neural sentry. Darvo would theoretically have to find someone who can access the void, with whom he can obtain the parts from. It makes sense to have a time delay on the release to Darvo actually getting a stockpile of Prime parts.

 

It also stops people just getting a stockpile of Argon the day before a new Prime is released, and buying it the moment it comes out. Have to either grind it out or wait a week or two., and get new crystals, since all the stockpiled ones would have long expired.

 

 

 I agree too, it would lessen the problem.

Edited by Aryajmarya
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Also acceptable.  I could live with that.

A time delay eliminates a lot of issues, players stockpiling crystals the day before the release, players just farming the lower tiers nonstop and never bothering to try the new content to get the parts. It even makes sense from a lore standpoint, because as I mentioned, it makes no sense for Darvo to instantly get the new prime things. He would have a delay between the release and Darvo getting stock of the precious's.

 

The only issue I can think of is it would negatively affect the player to player trade of the prime parts, since you can just wait a bit and buy them for free(ish). It could mess up the Warframe economy a bit.

 

But, just speaking for myself, I don't give a two dollar blumpkin about the in-game economy, and I'm sure there are many others that don't as well.

Edited by DecapitatingJim
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Only add new prime things to the black market a week or two after they release. Going with the Darvo theme, it makes no sense for him to inexplicably  and instantly get the new shines before we've had a chance, considering we're the ones with unlimited access to the void without fear of the Neural sentry. Darvo would theoretically have to find someone who can access the void, with whom he can obtain the parts from. It makes sense to have a time delay on the release to Darvo actually getting a stockpile of Prime parts.

 

It also stops people just getting a stockpile of Argon the day before a new Prime is released, and buying it the moment it comes out. Players will have to either grind it out or wait a week or two, and get new crystals, since all the stockpiled ones would have long expired.

 

 

I'm OK with this too. The people who want Loki Prime NAO can hope they get lucky in the Void, or plat buy him. But after 2 or 3 weeks, we should all be able to grind our way there with reasonable effort.

 

EDIT - adding to OP

Edited by notionphil
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I have another, but rough, idea in mind: 

 

We have two new items: Orokin Salvage and Orokin Equipment Modules. 

 

Orokin Salvage will replace Rubedo as the Orokin Void's uncommon drop, and Orokin Salvage will drop in quantities between 10-20 from enemies, rewarded at the end of the mission, and/or rewarded in Defence/Survival/Interception. 

 

The Orokin Equipment Modules can be rewarded in T3/T4 missions (in quantities of 1-2), or researched in the Orokin Lab using 750 Orokin Salvage and 30 minutes. What is different is that players can queue for the creation of Orokin Equipment Modules and the completed products can be stored without pausing the time, meaning players will not have to come back to collect one Orokin Equipment Module and remake them every 30 minutes. 

 

The Orokin Equipment Modules will have the flavour text: These modules contain varying information about the equipment used by the Orokin Empire. 

 

These Orokin Equipment Modules will be used to obtain Prime parts and blueprints for a set number of Orokin Equipment Modules in the Orokin Lab, meaning players can use them to obtain a part/blueprint that they may need (the price of these parts/blueprints will be high enough to encourage some grinding). 

 

Prime parts/blueprints can be turned into Orokin Salvage if a small price is paid (around 5,000 to 10,000 Credits). The amount of Orokin Salvage depends on the part/blueprint. 

 

If Prime Access comes, then players cannot use Orokin Equipment Modules to buy the new Prime parts/blueprints for three weeks, so that they will not skip and buy it with the Orokin Equipment Modules instantly. That means if they want to obtain the new Prime parts/blueprints in those three weeks, they can either buy Prime Access or play the relevant towers to obtain the new Primes. 

 

That way, people can still obtain the Prime part/blueprint they want, with a more clearer progression than Argon Crystals (as Argon Crystals are quite rare and fleeting). This also allows the Orokin Lab to be expanded a bit in terms of its use. 

Edited by Renegade343
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RNG is just a mask, that hides the true lack of genuine, non-repetitive content in Warframe.

 

Going to disagree, as the game itself is genuinely fun.

 

The mechanics, however, are terrible.  Endless void missions.  No rewards beyond primes.  That's what's holding the game back, not the game itself, which is actually really good.

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Okay, I agree with the idea.

But there's one problem I see.

What if I want a new Loki Prime part that's in the T4 (I believe).

So instead of farming for T4 keys and then grinding it out there, I go to a T1 Survival with a Nekros and farm Argon Crystals. What stops me from using those ones to buy that Loki Prime piece?

It is unfair to those who go and grind in the T4, and obviously, those who do get Crystals faster than T1s. But the problem is still there.

I have no solution to it, just pointing it out.

I think a good temporary solution could be to create more than one type of argon crystal and have each one tied to each level of tower.

T1 - Yellow

T2 - Green

T3 - Red

T4 - Blue

Also since certain parts are tied to each tower level you have to use the crystal tied to that tower to be able to purchase that specific prime part.

Edited by CreepinDeath
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That still leaves us with the problem of an abundance of Argon crystals and nearly nothing to spend them on. Hell I had 15 of them a few days ago, and nothing to do with them.

You actually have 15 Argon Crystals? Wow. Just wow. I never have over than 4. 

 

Argon Crystals... how about coupling Notionphil's suggestion with mine, so players who really have a bad day with Argon Crystals still have a choice?

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A time delay eliminates a lot of issues, players stockpiling crystals the day before the release, players just farming the lower tiers nonstop and never bothering to try the new content to get the parts. It even makes sense from a lore standpoint, because as I mentioned, it makes no sense for Darvo to instantly get the new prime things. He would have a delay between the release and Darvo getting stock of the precious's.

 

The only issue I can think of is it would negatively affect the player to player trade of the prime parts, since you can just wait a bit and buy them for free(ish). It could mess up the Warframe economy a bit.

 

But, just speaking for myself, I don't give a two dollar blumpkin about the in-game economy, and I'm sure there are many others that don't as well.

 

Also note that the 7 argon in the OP is just an example. DE would have to set this according to their logic. "how many hours of straight void farming should it take to get X part?" and then add a factor to it, and have that determine the amnt of argon reqd.

 

Argon should be a slower route, but a guaranteed one. So if you really want the Rhino Helm, your best bet is to farm the Rhino Helm and if you DONT get it, you can still argon token for it.

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