Solutions For Drop Dilution.

[Deidaku]

DE this can't really go on. 

 

Imagine the final state of the game with like 3 or 4 more prime warframes , many more prime weapons..

 

Getting 1 specific item will become near impossible  or extremely tedious. 

 

I can't imagine in the pseudo final state of the game every prime item beyond reach just because of RNG.

 

 

 

The problem with that kind of grinding ( thank you posters in the "Grindwalls in general thread") is that you can't see the end of it. you never do, there's no sense of accomplishment because you just got lucky.

 

 

 

I've seem many suggest the token system , and it seems to me like a better option , farm void beacons ( or whatever the name should be ) the higher the tier the more you get. 

 

And we would get the prime BPs from the orokin lab (serisously why is there a prime weapon part ?)  All we'd need to do is farm in great amounts the said beacons.

 

Advantages of this. it doesn't  have to be the same mission over and over again , and you see the end of the grind no matter how long it is.. No matter how little beacons / tokens you get , you'll keep progressing towards your goal but you know there's an end to it.  

THe closest thing we have to this is Zephyr. She required a sh*tton of oxmium. But farm for a while , with few alerts here and there  and voilà. Your own birdframe to fly around with. 

 

And once you get your frame/weapon there' a true sense of accomplishment.

 

Right now RNG doesn't give that sense at all , it's just " welp I got lucky "

 

 

Please DE , personally I don't want to see the void remain as it is. 

 

People can grind towards a goal. But no one can grind forever  in emptiness. We must see its end

 

EDIT: this also appiles to enemy drops as well

 

 

EDIT 2: + making prime frames extremely hard to obtain (yes they should be hard to get but no one should spend weeks of farming the same mission to get 1 part of the said frame) isn't really an incetive to buy prime access anyway. (WHich I might add is still extremely pricey, not everyone can be a founder or can dish out that much money in 1 game ) It just makes people feel angry and cheated

Edited June 13, 2014 by Deidaku

[effinator]

I just hope proxy wars (quest system of the sort) will be the thing that will actually present accomplishment. I have no problem with all the current grind, it's not even that problematic after the recent hotfix (got half the parts from first attempts). Token system could be nice but the system is already too far in of what it already is to make a sudden change, which will make some people cry they can't get their gear that fast due to having to grind 50 missions for it rather than a lucky 1.

[Deidaku]

I just hope proxy wars (quest system of the sort) will be the thing that will actually present accomplishment. I have no problem with all the current grind, it's not even that problematic after the recent hotfix (got half the parts from first attempts). Token system could be nice but the system is already too far in of what it already is to make a sudden change, which will make some people cry they can't get their gear that fast due to having to grind 50 missions for it rather than a lucky 1.

Lucky 1 hahahahahahaha

 

This is warframe , multiply that by 10 at least

 

EDIT : i was too soft . multiply that by 100.

 

People farm for weeks to get 1 rhino prime part

Edited June 13, 2014 by Deidaku

[effinator]

Even 10 runs is nothing, really. And like I've mentioned, not everyone gets such bad luck. Token system could potentially increase the number of runs required and in general change the whole system a tad too much perhaps, at least for now. It could backlash hard if done in a wrong manner

[Xoxx]

Nah, it's k. We'll just get Tower V when needed where we'll grind same stuff we can grind in Tower II.

[Blatantfool]

 This is just my opinion and I doubt it's anywhere near perfect - but if we are talking specifically about drops then

 

 

Every single skill mod removed from the enemy drop tables. Every single one. No, they wont be replaced with stuff like cores. Any drop rate space these where eating up would be distributed throughout the rest of the drops. Everything becomes slightly easier to get because all the tables shrink a size or two.

 

 On top of this, skillcards would be removed from Transmutation and Platinum Modpacks for conveniences sake.

 

 Skill mods are NOT something we need an endless supply of. You get a complete set when you obtain a Frame and they max out incredibly easy. Fusion Cores are common and honestly good enough for maxing Skill cards out that duplicates simply aren't necessary. All Skill cards do is fill up space on drop tables as a 'bum prize' roll. Whats that? Finally got a rare mod drop? Hope you like skill cards! Because you bet every time it is gonna be a skill card instead of that thing you can actually use.

 

 "But they what if I sell my skillcard by accident?" - the game shouldn't let you do this crap but if you somehow manage to put your foot in your mouth DE should really just add a few credit purchasable mod packs to the market. One for each Warframe. These would give you a copy of each of a Warframe's skills.

 

 To prevent these new credit modpacks from being used to buy transmute or Fusion fodder with credits DE can change the Skill card polarity so that from here on out Skill cards only give fusion juice to other skill cards and only transmute into skillcards. DE could hold an over the weekend event following this change were Skill cards are worth some bonus fusion points so that everyone can clear out their mountains of duplicates before they become dangerously useless.

 

 

 This is, in my opinion, an overdue change. We should not be getting a steady stream of freaking skillcards.

 

 You guys tell me, sound good?

[DoomFruit]

-Blatantfool's suggestion about skill card removal (too long to add to a list like this)

-Remove all duplicates from enemy mod drop tables except for fusion cores and core mods like serration, hornet strike and pressure point.

-Remove all duplicates except for Forma and blueprints thereof from Void mission reward drop tables.

-Remove all resources, credit caches and cores from Void mission reward drop tables. Permanently.

-Remove all Void keys from Void mission reward drop tables.

-Evenly distribute end of mission/wave rewards across all Void missions so that each mission has an equal number of possible rewards - with the exception of defence which can have 1.5-2x the normal drop list and survival which can have 2-3x the number of possible rewards.

-All drops for each particular type of void mission are to have equal probability of appearing. That means no 0.5% chance for rhino prime chassis alongside a 25% chance for boar prime blueprints, for example.

-Survival, defence and interception void missions (and any other "multi-stage" mission) should not have rotations/brackets - all drops should have an equal chance of appearing at any wave/interval.

 

There. Much fairer, much more transparent, much less frustration.

[unknow99]

 This is just my opinion and I doubt it's anywhere near perfect - but if we are talking specifically about drops then

 

 

Every single skill mod removed from the enemy drop tables. Every single one. No, they wont be replaced with stuff like cores. Any drop rate space these where eating up would be distributed throughout the rest of the drops. Everything becomes slightly easier to get because all the tables shrink a size or two.

 

 On top of this, skillcards would be removed from Transmutation and Platinum Modpacks for conveniences sake.

 

 Skill mods are NOT something we need an endless supply of. You get a complete set when you obtain a Frame and they max out incredibly easy. Fusion Cores are common and honesty good enough for maxing Skill cards out that duplicates simply aren't necessary. All Skill cards do is fill up space on drop tables as a 'bum prize' roll. Whats that? Finally got a rare mod drop? Hope you like skill cards! Because you bet every time it is gonna be a skill card instead of that thing you can actually use.

 

 "But they what if I sell my skillcard by accident?" - the game shouldn't let you do this crap but if you somehow manage to put your foot in your mouth DE should really just add a few credit purchasable mod packs to the market. One for each Warframe. These would give you a copy of each of a Warframe's skills.

 

 To prevent these new credit modpacks from being used to buy transmute or Fusion fodder with credits DE can change the Skill card polarity so that from here on out Skill cards only give fusion juice to other skill cards and only transmute into skillcards. DE could hold an over the weekend event following this change were Skill cards are worth some bonus fusion points so that everyone can clear out their mountains of duplicates before they become dangerously useless.

 

 

 This is, in my opinion, an overdue change. We should not be getting a steady stream of freaking skillcards.

 

 You guys tell me, sound good?

Yeah,sounds good : what are they waiting for? Ability mods in the market for credits and no more in enemy drops = easy beginning of a solution!! It will solve a lot and calm down rng rage a little...

Edited June 13, 2014 by unknow99

[Deidaku]

 This is just my opinion and I doubt it's anywhere near perfect - but if we are talking specifically about drops then

 

 

Every single skill mod removed from the enemy drop tables. Every single one. No, they wont be replaced with stuff like cores. Any drop rate space these where eating up would be distributed throughout the rest of the drops. Everything becomes slightly easier to get because all the tables shrink a size or two.

 

 On top of this, skillcards would be removed from Transmutation and Platinum Modpacks for conveniences sake.

 

 Skill mods are NOT something we need an endless supply of. You get a complete set when you obtain a Frame and they max out incredibly easy. Fusion Cores are common and honestly good enough for maxing Skill cards out that duplicates simply aren't necessary. All Skill cards do is fill up space on drop tables as a 'bum prize' roll. Whats that? Finally got a rare mod drop? Hope you like skill cards! Because you bet every time it is gonna be a skill card instead of that thing you can actually use.

 

 "But they what if I sell my skillcard by accident?" - the game shouldn't let you do this crap but if you somehow manage to put your foot in your mouth DE should really just add a few credit purchasable mod packs to the market. One for each Warframe. These would give you a copy of each of a Warframe's skills.

 

 To prevent these new credit modpacks from being used to buy transmute or Fusion fodder with credits DE can change the Skill card polarity so that from here on out Skill cards only give fusion juice to other skill cards and only transmute into skillcards. DE could hold an over the weekend event following this change were Skill cards are worth some bonus fusion points so that everyone can clear out their mountains of duplicates before they become dangerously useless.

 

 

 This is, in my opinion, an overdue change. We should not be getting a steady stream of freaking skillcards.

 

 You guys tell me, sound good?

I should have specified void drops

 

But I agree 100%.

 

I'm tired of dropping tornadoes ,absorbs , rhino stomps and so on.

 

Hopefully DE will squeese those out as the mod system expands and the updates come

[Zarlockk]

 

 This is just my opinion and I doubt it's anywhere near perfect - but if we are talking specifically about drops then

 

 

Every single skill mod removed from the enemy drop tables. Every single one. No, they wont be replaced with stuff like cores. Any drop rate space these where eating up would be distributed throughout the rest of the drops. Everything becomes slightly easier to get because all the tables shrink a size or two.

 

 On top of this, skillcards would be removed from Transmutation and Platinum Modpacks for conveniences sake.

 

 Skill mods are NOT something we need an endless supply of. You get a complete set when you obtain a Frame and they max out incredibly easy. Fusion Cores are common and honestly good enough for maxing Skill cards out that duplicates simply aren't necessary. All Skill cards do is fill up space on drop tables as a 'bum prize' roll. Whats that? Finally got a rare mod drop? Hope you like skill cards! Because you bet every time it is gonna be a skill card instead of that thing you can actually use.

 

 "But they what if I sell my skillcard by accident?" - the game shouldn't let you do this crap but if you somehow manage to put your foot in your mouth DE should really just add a few credit purchasable mod packs to the market. One for each Warframe. These would give you a copy of each of a Warframe's skills.

 

 To prevent these new credit modpacks from being used to buy transmute or Fusion fodder with credits DE can change the Skill card polarity so that from here on out Skill cards only give fusion juice to other skill cards and only transmute into skillcards. DE could hold an over the weekend event following this change were Skill cards are worth some bonus fusion points so that everyone can clear out their mountains of duplicates before they become dangerously useless.

 

 

 This is, in my opinion, an overdue change. We should not be getting a steady stream of freaking skillcards.

 

 You guys tell me, sound good?

 

 

Remember this mentioned a while ago and absolutely agree. Enough of rare drop from mobs hoping that it is stance but ending up as Nyx Chaos or Miasma like skill cards.

I have 2 another suggestions regarding void drops 

1) PRD (Pseudo random destribution, if event fails to happen it has higher chance to take place next time until it reaches 100%. so if smt got 10% chance then it must take place on 10th time)

2) Make choice of key type. What i mean is for example I use t1 exterminate and next i choose what set of rewards i want. SO if i want loki prime i choose section in which it is listed so the chance of getting specific item from certain key would be higher because there are multiple drop table with less items as reward while maintaining all current drops..

Edited June 14, 2014 by Zarlockk

[Rakosta_Kai]

I think removing skill cards from the drop table is a great idea.

 

I have a few more ideas to tack on to that:

 

Add a difficulty slider for regular missions. The higher the difficulty, the higher the chance more rare mods and resources drop.

 

Successfully completing obstacle courses in the Void yields a container with a Prime bp/part in it or a useful rare mod. Offer a slot machine style reward slider that lets you pick your reward and the speed you completed the course acts as a modifier for your chance to receive what you picked.

 

Move Older Prime Parts to the Orokin Lab. Leave the Prime BP's in the Void as items found in containers or as potential Obstacle Course rewards (or both).

[rangeless]

thus the reason why it's called the void. DE obviously wants us to hopelessly grind for an item that is nonexistent.... like look at T4 interception.... before the hotfix, it was really a pipe dream to win any of the top rewards from it.

[unknow99]

I think removing skill cards from the drop table is a great idea.

 

I have a few more ideas to tack on to that:

 

Add a difficulty slider for regular missions. The higher the difficulty, the higher the chance more rare mods and resources drop.

 

Successfully completing obstacle courses in the Void yields a container with a Prime bp/part in it or a useful rare mod. Offer a slot machine style reward slider that lets you pick your reward and the speed you completed the course acts as a modifier for your chance to receive what you picked.

 

Move Older Prime Parts to the Orokin Lab. Leave the Prime BP's in the Void as items found in containers or as potential Obstacle Course rewards (or both).

Your slider idea feels really good. If you completed a node, it could offer you the choice of re-doing it on normal difficulty or a hard mode...(a level just below nightmare mode : more spawns,more enemy damage & resistance, more eximus & different units spawning, without the nightmare mode effects on the player.)

[Deidaku]

I think removing skill cards from the drop table is a great idea.

 

I have a few more ideas to tack on to that:

 

Add a difficulty slider for regular missions. The higher the difficulty, the higher the chance more rare mods and resources drop.

 

Successfully completing obstacle courses in the Void yields a container with a Prime bp/part in it or a useful rare mod. Offer a slot machine style reward slider that lets you pick your reward and the speed you completed the course acts as a modifier for your chance to receive what you picked.

 

Move Older Prime Parts to the Orokin Lab. Leave the Prime BP's in the Void as items found in containers or as potential Obstacle Course rewards (or both).

It's the PSO system right? Higher the tier/difficiulty setting the more rewards. I like it

[Lowsodium]

 This is just my opinion and I doubt it's anywhere near perfect - but if we are talking specifically about drops then

 

 

Every single skill mod removed from the enemy drop tables. Every single one. No, they wont be replaced with stuff like cores. Any drop rate space these where eating up would be distributed throughout the rest of the drops. Everything becomes slightly easier to get because all the tables shrink a size or two.

 

 On top of this, skillcards would be removed from Transmutation and Platinum Modpacks for conveniences sake.

 

 Skill mods are NOT something we need an endless supply of. You get a complete set when you obtain a Frame and they max out incredibly easy. Fusion Cores are common and honestly good enough for maxing Skill cards out that duplicates simply aren't necessary. All Skill cards do is fill up space on drop tables as a 'bum prize' roll. Whats that? Finally got a rare mod drop? Hope you like skill cards! Because you bet every time it is gonna be a skill card instead of that thing you can actually use.

 

 "But they what if I sell my skillcard by accident?" - the game shouldn't let you do this crap but if you somehow manage to put your foot in your mouth DE should really just add a few credit purchasable mod packs to the market. One for each Warframe. These would give you a copy of each of a Warframe's skills.

 

 To prevent these new credit modpacks from being used to buy transmute or Fusion fodder with credits DE can change the Skill card polarity so that from here on out Skill cards only give fusion juice to other skill cards and only transmute into skillcards. DE could hold an over the weekend event following this change were Skill cards are worth some bonus fusion points so that everyone can clear out their mountains of duplicates before they become dangerously useless.

 

 

 This is, in my opinion, an overdue change. We should not be getting a steady stream of freaking skillcards.

 

 You guys tell me, sound good?

 

As a start sure. But this game is bloated with more than just mods. Weapons, bugs, missions, void drops, other mods than just skillcards. I don't want to see DE make this one fix, then go back to building their grind wall that you can bypass for a price and throwing more weapons people will only use for 10o points at us.

 

DE needs to stop making new content for a while, and fix what is already here.

 

I also think DE should put a cap on Mastery points. So people don't feel like they NEED to collect the points of every weapon, or feel left behind because they will never get the points of some exclusive ones.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Lowsodium

[Cabadath5]

Even 10 runs is nothing, really. And like I've mentioned, not everyone gets such bad luck. Token system could potentially increase the number of runs required and in general change the whole system a tad too much perhaps, at least for now. It could backlash hard if done in a wrong manner

Not everyone indeed.There are items I have acquired after months of farming and others after merely days.I personally would find it far more preferable to steadily acquire currency instead of having to sacrifice a lamb to the RNG gods before ending the mission.

[RoboDoge]

There is no point in making this kind of threads as they are pointless.

 

DE will fix dilution by adding more dilution. It is not dilution if the offer some bandaid solution that will dilute drop tables even more.

[Mak_Gohae]

The void only drops BPs, forma, and keys... they took everything else out..... what dilution?

Rare items are rare, you are not going to get them easier the less items that appear on the drop table because they are rare.

If there are only 3 items that drop and one is rare you will have a hard time getting that one items.

This is how the drops worked for getting warframes parts before, the boss dropped a mod, 1 rare item, a Warframe part, or nothing. And it took some folks a month to get a frame.

 

This is the way this system works. Until a new system is implements that works with what DE wants to do with the game RNG is not doing to disappear.

[RoboDoge]

The void only drops BPs, forma, and keys... they took everything else out..... what dilution?

Rare items are rare, you are not going to get them easier the less items that appear on the drop table because they are rare.

If there are only 3 items that drop and one is rare you will have a hard time getting that one items.

This is how the drops worked for getting warframes parts before, the boss dropped a mod, 1 rare item, a Warframe part, or nothing. And it took some folks a month to get a frame.

 

This is the way this system works. Until a new system is implements that works with what DE wants to do with the game RNG is not doing to disappear.

Been in t1 missions lately?

[Mak_Gohae]

Been in t1 missions lately?

 

Yeah, im trying to get that loki, son!

 

 

Bps and keys.

Some one should make a rap song about this, that rhymes.

[5Billion]

Here are two solutions I just figured out for void dilution, idk if anyone else posted something similar but ill go ahead:

 

1) remove the ability for rewards to appear multiple times a mission- this is self-explanatory why the hell do rewards like latron barrel pop up multiple times a mission? even the new crap they did with rotations (which they only quickly explained on the live stream) doesnt fix this, as u can still get the reward again later on... remove this and itll be easier for rewards to be narrowed down

 

2) remove the S#&$ ability that rewards appear on multiple missions- the only reason this exists is so that there are different ways to obtain a prime part, but cmon... if each prime part appeared ONCE in the void then dilution wouldn't even be an issue...

 

That's all folks.

[DoomFruit]

The void only drops BPs, forma, and keys... they took everything else out..... what dilution?

Rare items are rare, you are not going to get them easier the less items that appear on the drop table because they are rare.

If there are only 3 items that drop and one is rare you will have a hard time getting that one items.

This is how the drops worked for getting warframes parts before, the boss dropped a mod, 1 rare item, a Warframe part, or nothing. And it took some folks a month to get a frame.

The dilution comes in the form of void keys, fusion cores and resources polluting the drop tables. Dilution comes in the form that we still have 69 duplicate non-Forma items in the void mission reward table alongside the 85 unique items. Dilution comes in the form of a MASSIVELY inhomogeneous probability distribution for the different item drops, where boar prime blueprints show up 15% of the time, while rhino prime chassis show up less than 1% of the time.

[Deidaku]

The void only drops BPs, forma, and keys... they took everything else out..... what dilution?

Rare items are rare, you are not going to get them easier the less items that appear on the drop table because they are rare.

If there are only 3 items that drop and one is rare you will have a hard time getting that one items.

This is how the drops worked for getting warframes parts before, the boss dropped a mod, 1 rare item, a Warframe part, or nothing. And it took some folks a month to get a frame.

 

This is the way this system works. Until a new system is implements that works with what DE wants to do with the game RNG is not doing to disappear.

NOt everyone can or wants to grind for months to get 1 item

[traybong111]

I've been thinking of 2 or 3 ways of improving Defense mission award system because I've been playing it for several months straight for anything Ankyros or Reaper Prime to absolutely no success. I don't have too serious of a complaint about Survival as of now, other than that all of the Void mission drop tables should exclude Cores and Keys. They are all are cluttered enough and nothing is more infuriating than finishing a Capture mission to get another Capture Key. Glory to RNG and his infinite mercy, for he has given me another chance! Burn in hell.

 

1. Elimination

I really don't want to be that guy in the forum who says the same thing over and over again regardless of thread topic but RNG is an overwhelming presence in Warframe. Simply, if you pass up a reward that reward is removed from future reward pool. Defense and Survival mission drop tables could act as buffers to free up some space for shorter missions like Capture and Mobile Defense.

 

2. More options

This is probably a tad more grindy than the first option. So until wave 15, players only get one reward option like we do now. However, after wave 20, 2 rewards show up--you still get to choose only one of them. After wave 30, 3 options, and so on and so forth. This, however marginally, presents the players with something they, for the lack of a better word, deserve after facing increasingly difficult enemies, that is to say higher chance (or so it'd seem--really, DE, an illusion of progression would be sufficient to bring me back to the hamster wheel and I'll smile like a maniac all the way) of obtaining whatever Prime piece they've stayed for. Of course no duplicates should show up, so no 2 Braton Prime stocks and 2 Mag Prime BPs in your 45th wave. 

 

In either case (esp. second one since wave 30+ really isn't an issue) I wouldn't complain if Cores, rare mods, or Keys stayed in Void Defense drop tables. But the current Defense reward system is downright ridiculous. 

Edited June 14, 2014 by traybong111

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.