Since There Isnt An Enemy Specific Feedback Forum...

[unmog]

I havent gone on the forums in a long time, most of the time I feel like my feedback is ignored because I dont use lots of fancy pictures or post topics that start enough controversy to get that 20 pages of replies so the Devs actually notice my voice in the sea of millions of other voices. But this is something I have to talk about. I'm pretty sure others have talked about this stuff before but after browsing through the first two pages I havent seen anything talking about it in awhile, yes Im being intentionally vague. Plus, like I said this is my first time back on the forum in awhile and this isnt just to $#*(@ and moan. Its to get down into the details so I can explain some ideas.

 

So, first of all I applaud DE for FINALLY working on the infested. Since the beginning of the game infested havent gotten any serious updates to their army, Grineer got most of the love, and Corpus got the leftovers leaving none for infested. Heck, Infested even got kicked out of the solar system and now pretty much exist in their own little corner called orokin derelicts... other than the occasional infestation which are honestly quite weak and dont do anything other than change the boss or disrupt those specific missions you may want to farm at the time. Really, other than a few reskins of enemies [like the crawlers] and the updated skin of the ancients, they got nothing. Theyve had the same enemy types and nothing new for a long time. Why didnt the grineer butchers or napalmers or heavy gunners or jetpack guys ever get infested for instance? Why no infested grineer females? I could ask the same for female corpus, but this isnt about corpus and I always assumed that some of them might be female in a padded suit if we could see their face under the helm. Obviously I was wrong but like I said this is about infested specifically.

 

And its great we finally will get more infested, but its odd we're only getting corpus infested robots now. Werent most of the infested units already corpus based? We need more grineer based infested other than the bent in half grineer charger. But, since the only new one so far is the Osprey we're going to talk about this little guy~ So, the osprey. I think the concept is great, and he looks awesome. The fact he can drop those crawlers is helpful too, especially since farming the crawlers was so hard before since they didnt spawn much. And not having a direct attack was a change too, he sort of reminds me of the mine ospreys that drop bombs, we need more stuff like that in my opinion. So, the concepts are all great, the implementation is the problem I have.

 

Infested Osprey

Problem 1= This problem is general, and actually effects all ospreys. The public have told DE before about this, but we seem to have been ignored. Basically the hitbox of the osprey is too small, and unless you shoot it right on its face or use a weapon like a shotgun with spread or aoe your not going to actually hit it. I think they did a little to fix this, but they need to readdress it if so since it still seems to not damage the thing if I shoot its wings. Plus for being so small and flighty, it makes this next particular issue an even bigger pain in the butt.

 

Problem 2= He has way too much health... idealy Id expect this little unit to have about as much health as a normal osprey, comparable to a mine osprey. Not TOO difficult to kill, but something small, fast, flighty. Something maybe a little harder to hit but something weak. Now, since I use OP guns and I kill most everything in one hit this isnt noticable at all in lower levels. But I did start to notice at higher levels he seems to take more hits than even an ancient. Granted I think Ancients need a buff too, since they seem to have no armor at all and die much faster than grineer gunners but this osprey shouldnt have more effective HP than an Ancient. The ancient is supposed to be the tank, this little guy is the support! In breeding grounds I managed to solo level 120 enemies, and I noticed the ospreys seemed to take twice as many hits as an ancient. To me, thats just wrong. Maybe this has already been addressed since I cant confirm it anymore that Breeding ground missions have been removed but... yea, adjust this guys health to be on par with a normal Osprey.

 

Problem 3= He does way too much poison damage, even compared to a toxic leader he does more damage. This is BS. Even level 20 ospreys are instant killing players, this is unacceptable. The reasons why are simple, its dropping traps. Now while I do think that the bombs mine ospreys drop should actually do MORE damage, this guys damage is absurd and needs to be lowered. Why? Because most importantly he's not actually hitting you, hes setting an enviromental trap, the amount of damage should actually be lower than an arc trap imo. Why lower? because its poison and effects your HP directly ignoring your shields. I think the damage should also be gradual. We're in a space suit, poison in the air shouldnt immediately start doing full damage. The damage should start off low and increase the longer you stay in it and stop when you leave the area. Its area denial, not an instant death attack. :/

 

Problem 4= Combined with the high damage, it has a really high chance to proc its poison status effect. If it procs, your almost guaranteed to die if your not invincible at the time or get immediate healing since it does 50% of the initial damage every second for seven seconds. Its like a confirmed kill even if you get out. I think since they dont actually hit you, it should have a 0% chance to proc. That way you stop taking damage as soon as you leave the cloud and you dont get punished too hard for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

 

 

Overall I think he makes a great addition to the infested team and serves a solid role, and overall I do think Infested need to be more of a threat. But making a single enemy really OP does not come close to solving the problems infested face. As it stands right now, most of the infested enemies are jokes and these new ospreys are the only real threat for most players. This little guy needs a nerf, sorry.

 

 

 

Now I will go into some more basic ideas for improving existing infested. Im sure theres plenty of ideas kicking around for new infested but lets show the originals some love too k?

 

 

 

Infested Runner

This guy needs the most love imo. Give him more health, he's weaker than a charger. Why? Well he's going to need it to get close, especially with the other changes I suggest if theyre ever implemented. Not enough so he's tanky like the ancient but enough to give him a higher chance of survival. He also needs a damage buff. His ONLY attack so far is he runs up to someone and self destructs. He litterally sacrifices himself to take you out... so why is this attack weaker than say, a grineer rocket launcher or jetpack guy? This attack should at LEAST be comparable to that, Maybe to compensate for this increased effectiveness of attack, maybe make his explosion take a little longer and be more interesting? Maybe he runs up to you, goes on all fours, and his body swells up like a ballon full of boils before exploding. Hence why he might need a buff to his health, so he has a chance to actually get this attack off. Oh, and who knows, maybe at least give him a basic swipe attack... do they have one already? I dont know honestly, they die so fast and are so weak I usually ignore them... poor guy :(

 

Infested Leaper

I think he needs to be more tanky too, maybe more health than a Charger but less damage. I also think some sort of ability to jump onto a player and pin them would be cool too, sort of like a pounce. When pounced you would be limited to your melee and sidearm to get him off you. So you stay down until you or a friend kill it. Would make being swarmed much more dangerous instead of randomly quick attacking everything and have them die instantly. So many grineer enemies have CC abilities... why doesnt the leaper do anything other than sometimes knock you down? I dunno, the lack of love for infested is pretty obvious when we look at their supposed "advanced" fighters. :/

 

Infested Crawler

I remember when the poisonous ones caused a toxic cloud on death... what happened to that? I think all the crawlers should have a death effect. Normal ones explode and cause things to fall down around them [even to enemies so we can use them against their allies], poison ones release a poison cloud again, electric ones cause an electric blast, maybe reduce shields or energy like a disrupter. None of these effects should be TOO big, but big enough you dont want to be by one when they die. To enhance that idea of not being near them, maybe give them a grab attack where they grab your leg and you cant move unless you dodge roll away. Sure you could shoot them too, but you dont want to be near them when they die remember?

 

Infested Charger

Really I think the chargers are in a good spot right now. They need their description changed though... they do NOT have a weak claw attack, its pretty strong really. Im okay with that though. I think they should be a little harder to kill, but not in terms of HP. Have them be faster, have them try to dodge more when they go after you. Give them a dash attack too. Have it be similar to the leapers current ability where they try to knock you down, can be an infested version of a rhino charge or excaliber dash.

 

Infested Ancient

These guys are the infested tanks currently right? How come theyre easier to kill than say, a grineer heavy or even an oxium osprey? Granted I usually shoot them in their tentacle face but it seems they have SUBSTANTIALLY less armor or health than a grinneer heavy unit. These guys should be buffed to be harder to kill. Comparing them to grineer heavy units they also seem to do much less damage and be less of a threat. Sure they can knock ya down which is annoying, and potentially lethal when in a hoarde... but on their own theyre not much a threat. They walk around slowly before they decide to dash... they have less health, do less damage, and dont have a ranged attack. Again this is comparing them to grineer heavies. Why not let a poison ancient throw globes of poison? Or a disrupter ancient fire an arc of electricity? Why not let them shoot a volley of spines or something at least? Theres gotta be something else you can have them do other than the oddly homing stretchy slap attack. Speaking of  the slappy attack, why not have it behave like the grineer scoprion girl? Have it not only knock you down, have him drag you to him.

 

I think if ideas like this was included, infested would be more interesting and fun to play. Currently though theyre pretty boring and easy to farm. Other than the new osprey of course, which I actually like... though I hope DE doesn't just leave him as he is and addresses those problems I pointed out.

 

 

 

Edit 7/21/2014

Put here for easy access, my thoughts about the changes with U14 :)

 

Infested Runner!

I like that he does more damage. Honestly. However this wasnt balanced in anyway, like I suggested not only would it 'look' cooler if the little guy had a new animation for his kamikaze attack, it would also help balance out the damage more too. I still think it would be much better if he charged you, hit all fours and swelled up like a balloon before bursting. Maybe he could even grab someone and swell up, and unless you dodge rolled or melee'd him off you would get exploded on. As he is right now though, he just runs in and explodes. Hes more dangerous now of course, but he tends to be more annoying since his explosion tends to only kill my sentinel. Maybe this is just a sign that sentinels need a buff to their shields, health, and armor? They've had very little for a long time, maybe you could base it off the warframes shields so the little buddies shields and stuff get a boost depending on how high yours are? I dunno, either that or make the sentinel immune to splash damage... like those annoying arc traps are right now.

 

Leapers

Was anything done with them really? Sure I guess we can block and parry their knock down which is good, shoulda been able to do that in the first place. But what else did they bring new to the table? I think they should be able to pounce or grab still, some sort of struggle mini game. Hmm now that I think about it something like in that crappy third person walking dead game would be good... :p

 

http://www.thenerdfilter.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/The-Walking-Dead-Survival-Instinct.jpg

 

Sure we dont all have knives on us, but something similar where we melee them off should be doable. Doesnt even need to be a quick time event,

 

Ancients

I like how they buff their allies, but Im on the fence with this one too. I could see healers doing it, but all of them? I dont know if I like that, maybe lower the range of how many allies get the buff at least, or remove it for toxic and disruptor ancients. Speaking of disruptors, they shouldnt be able to steal energy through Nyx's absorb, rhinos iron skin, or Valky's Histeria. Just shouldnt, that needs to be patched, immediately. Other than that, the ancients shouldnt shoot a rope at you. And its undodgable like how the scorpions "used" to be. Didnt we already go down this road once before, didnt you learn your lesson then? No, its still not okay. Otherwise, why does it even need a rope? Thats just another sign of you being friggen lazy. Just have it use its old slappy attack, and give the attack the ability to drag you. How can this be so hard? *shakes head*

 

Oh and before I forget, I FEEL STRONGLY that any enemy capable of stealing energy should drop lots of energy orbs when killed. MULTIPLE blue orbs, 2 GUARANTEED, if not 3-4 randomly~

 

OSPREYS!

Cant believe I forgot this one. Still too much health, still too much damage for an enemy that spreads an environmental trap, still dont think the hit boxes or armor was fixed. I am seeing them spawn a lot more though, and I am seeing my teams prioritize them  a lot more. I think that right there should say they need a nerf though... if the team is ignoring other obvious threats and taking out the ospreys first... yea... its still OP. Id say reduce the damage and status proc to 0%, or change the damage type from poison to corrosive. That way it weakens your armor and you take more damage from the others, would make it more support type like its meant to be.

 

Despite some of that negative feed back however Im still excited about the changes and I think the infested are FINALLY starting to shape up into something worthwhile after all this time of being jokes. So I still applaud and encourage you to continue DE, just make sure you're attempts arent as half-assed as these appear to be... it really is like shooting yourself in the foot on the first step. Still, the direction is the right direction at least...

 

Chargers

I think the increase in speed is good, just they need more really. Maybe give them the ability to jump to other places and parkour more to follow the warframe... that would mean specific AI scripting and path logic. But I figure something like this is necessary anyway now that we have kubrows following us around right? Doesnt even need to be perfect, I think it would be good if a pack of chargers were following me, I jump and copter away, a couple try following me and fall to their death. The others notice this and find another way to get to me or wall run or something instead.It wouldnt be that hard to add some RNG to their behavior on how they follow you after all, and DE DOES love that RNG right?

 

Crawlers

Im on the fence about increasing their speed. I mean, sure they need it, but its sort of a cope out isnt it? Ya didnt do much anything else, sure they got a bit better ranged attacks but... thats it? I think having them grab us if we got too close would have been better, so would have giving them unique "on death" effects. Come on DE, you can do a lot better than that, sometimes the easy thing to do isnt the right thing to do, taking the hard and noble path is usually better. Dont get lazy on me :/

Edited July 21, 2014 by unmog

[Jaacobe]

Bump

Completely agree with a rework of the infested.

Edit: Im kind of a moron :P

Edited July 3, 2014 by Jaacobe

[FlyinBrian]

I agree 100% with this...and really this should be implemented soon. infested have seemed to take "a back seat" in mos of the "lore" of Warframe.!!!!

[CeroOscuras]

I really like this idea and i agree it seems that the infested get no love at all. Come on DE take these suggestions and make the infested awesome!

[Paradoxbomb]

It's been a while since I touched it up, but I did submit a thread on Infested unit overhauls myself: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/178662-infested-20-new-units-and-improvements-to-old-ones-wip/

 

It pretty much sums up how I feel they should update the existing enemies (as well as adding a few new ones). As for the Mutalist Osprey, I feel as though they should be scaled up to Oxium Osprey size, given their health and their ability to charge (not to mention their ability to carry around a severed human torso). Giving them another attack besides charging would also be nice so as to avoid constant poison spam; maybe give them a basic ranged attack where they fire a small volley of barbs in between charges.

[unmog]

It's been a while since I touched it up, but I did submit a thread on Infested unit overhauls myself: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/178662-infested-20-new-units-and-improvements-to-old-ones-wip/

 

It pretty much sums up how I feel they should update the existing enemies (as well as adding a few new ones). As for the Mutalist Osprey, I feel as though they should be scaled up to Oxium Osprey size, given their health and their ability to charge (not to mention their ability to carry around a severed human torso). Giving them another attack besides charging would also be nice so as to avoid constant poison spam; maybe give them a basic ranged attack where they fire a small volley of barbs in between charges.

Thanks for the reply, I actually read your post before, and its sort of referenced when I complained about no one ever replying to my ideas since I never have pictures :/ Maybe I should make pictures, sigh. But yea a few of your ideas are actually being incorporated too so its cool that you decided to reply so I dont mind the plug to your thread.

 

But yea, I liked a lot of your ideas for new infested, but this thread was targeted specifically at fixing what we already have currently available. Right now most of the infested are jokes... and the osprey is horribly OP for a support oriented enemy. I cant wait for some of the new infested to come out though, that way I can give specific feed back on them too. 

[Paradoxbomb]

Thanks for the reply, I actually read your post before, and its sort of referenced when I complained about no one ever replying to my ideas since I never have pictures :/ Maybe I should make pictures, sigh. But yea a few of your ideas are actually being incorporated too so its cool that you decided to reply so I dont mind the plug to your thread.

 

But yea, I liked a lot of your ideas for new infested, but this thread was targeted specifically at fixing what we already have currently available. Right now most of the infested are jokes... and the osprey is horribly OP for a support oriented enemy. I cant wait for some of the new infested to come out though, that way I can give specific feed back on them too. 

 

Oh, well, this is awkward. Sorry about linking a thread you read already, it's been quiet for a while so I guess I lost track of who's seen it and who hasn't. <:)

 

But I agree with you: while I do look forward to the new batch of infested units, I would really love to see them improve the existing units even more. Enemies like Runners and Crawlers are absolutely pitiful in their current state, and just throwing a few competent units into the bowl with the crap ones isn't gonna do much to actually flesh them out as a solid faction.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[unmog]

Hah, no problems, maybe someone who hasnt seen it yet will stumble onto it when they look at this thread. You made a really good post and gave a lot of good ideas so I dont mind.

 

But yea... infested have been needing some TLC for a long time. Maybe it will make people bring some stronger gear when they go to farm sechura or ODD's. I mean, theyre so easy people just kill them in waves for easy exp. Thats why everyone complained about the OP ospreys in ODDs, they were like "Wanh I dont have an easy place to farm exp anymore, not cool." While I disagree with the idea that its okay to pick on the infested... because lets face it for the "scariest" faction they are the least intimidating,,, I do agree that throwing in a totally unbalanced unit suddenly into the mix is not good game design. :/

[CyberWarrior200]

Agreed throwing in the a op osprey without something to balance was stupid, I'll admit the osprey isn't a bad concept just throwing it in op isn't the way to do it. At times I feel infested are really just overlooked when it comes difficulty.

[WhisperByte]

I'm a little bit against making Ancients tankier than they are now. They spawn in larger quantities than Grineer heavies (about 3-4 Ancients per single Grineer Heavy) AND they have more devastating abilities. Grineer Heavies also don't charge to knock you down while Ancients can and will do so every chance that they get and autoaiming knockdown is more devastating than a rocket that you can outmaneuver or a machinegun that you can easily hide from. Then there's of course the followup toxic aura and disruption which are pretty destructive abilities.

 

The only Ancient that could use a big survivability buff is Healing Ancient as his ability is purely support

[Sagefoxwood]

i thought the next major update was going to be focused around the infested ._.

[unmog]

I'm a little bit against making Ancients tankier than they are now. They spawn in larger quantities than Grineer heavies (about 3-4 Ancients per single Grineer Heavy) AND they have more devastating abilities. Grineer Heavies also don't charge to knock you down while Ancients can and will do so every chance that they get and autoaiming knockdown is more devastating than a rocket that you can outmaneuver or a machinegun that you can easily hide from. Then there's of course the followup toxic aura and disruption which are pretty destructive abilities.

 

The only Ancient that could use a big survivability buff is Healing Ancient as his ability is purely support

While I dont agree with the first point I do think the healer ancient could use a bigger buff than the other ancients. I think his heal should buff enemies more at least... they seem to glow after being hit with it but I dont think it actually buffs them, or if it does the buff it gives them isnt very noticable.

 

But Ive seen mobs of heavy gunners, napalmers and rocket launcher grineer, So saying the grineer or corpus dont spawn heavies in the same amount isnt true. The only difference might be the amount of diversity in the other factions, where as the infested only really have the ancient at the time. I do think they need a range attack though, if not the ancient then maybe a new enemy. But the ancient could at least grab and drag you instead of knocking you down with its slappy attack. I really think the infested need more ability to keep the player from running away... considering they are exclusively a melee faction. They need the ability to knock you down or grab you or reposition you. Right now its pretty easy to kite entire waves of infested enemies and gun them down one at a time if need be.

Edited July 5, 2014 by unmog

[unmog]

Id like to thank DE for stepping up the infested, a lot of the changes are actually suggestions I made too! I'll have to play more with them to see what actually works with what they intended. It does seem like the poison damage from the ospreys was toned down a bit though... again more feedback from me as I play with them more.

 

So far however all I have to say is... why do ancients shoot a rope at me to grab me? It would have been just fine if their arm stretched instead like it did before.

Edited July 19, 2014 by unmog

[unmog]

Infested Runner!

I like that he does more damage. Honestly. However this wasnt balanced in anyway, like I suggested not only would it 'look' cooler if the little guy had a new animation for his kamikaze attack, it would also help balance out the damage more too. I still think it would be much better if he charged you, hit all fours and swelled up like a balloon before bursting. Maybe he could even grab someone and swell up, and unless you dodge rolled or melee'd him off you would get exploded on. As he is right now though, he just runs in and explodes. Hes more dangerous now of course, but he tends to be more annoying since his explosion tends to only kill my sentinel. Maybe this is just a sign that sentinels need a buff to their shields, health, and armor? They've had very little for a long time, maybe you could base it off the warframes shields so the little buddies shields and stuff get a boost depending on how high yours are? I dunno, either that or make the sentinel immune to splash damage... like those annoying arc traps are right now.

 

Chargers

I think the increase in speed is good, just they need more really. Maybe give them the ability to jump to other places and parkour more to follow the warframe... that would mean specific AI scripting and path logic. But I figure something like this is necessary anyway now that we have kubrows following us around right? Doesnt even need to be perfect, I think it would be good if a pack of chargers were following me, I jump and copter away, a couple try following me and fall to their death. The others notice this and find another way to get to me or wall run or something instead.It wouldnt be that hard to add some RNG to their behavior on how they follow you after all, and DE DOES love that RNG right?

 

Crawlers

Im on the fence about increasing their speed. I mean, sure they need it, but its sort of a cope out isnt it? Ya didnt do much anything else, sure they got a bit better ranged attacks but... thats it? I think having them grab us if we got too close would have been better, so would have giving them unique "on death" effects. Come on DE, you can do a lot better than that, sometimes the easy thing to do isnt the right thing to do, taking the hard and noble path is usually better. Dont get lazy on me :/

 

Leapers

Was anything done with them really? Sure I guess we can block and parry their knock down which is good, shoulda been able to do that in the first place. But what else did they bring new to the table? I think they should be able to pounce or grab still, some sort of struggle mini game. Hmm now that I think about it something like in that crappy third person walking dead game would be good... :p

 

http://www.thenerdfilter.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/The-Walking-Dead-Survival-Instinct.jpg

 

Sure we dont all have knives on us, but something similar where we melee them off should be doable. Doesnt even need to be a quick time event,

 

Ancients

I like how they buff their allies, but Im on the fence with this one too. I could see healers doing it, but all of them? I dont know if I like that, maybe lower the range of how many allies get the buff at least, or remove it for toxic and disruptor ancients. Speaking of disruptors, they shouldnt be able to steal energy through Nyx's absorb, rhinos iron skin, or Valky's Histeria. Just shouldnt, that needs to be patched, immediately. Other than that, the ancients shouldnt shoot a rope at you. And its undodgable like how the scorpions "used" to be. Didnt we already go down this road once before, didnt you learn your lesson then? No, its still not okay. Otherwise, why does it even need a rope? Thats just another sign of you being friggen lazy. Just have it use its old slappy attack, and give the attack the ability to drag you. How can this be so hard? *shakes head*

 

Oh and before I forget, I FEEL STRONGLY that any enemy capable of stealing energy should drop lots of energy orbs when killed. MULTIPLE blue orbs, 2 GUARANTEED, if not 3-4 randomly~

 

OSPREYS!

Cant believe I forgot this one. Still too much health, still too much damage for an enemy that spreads an environmental trap, still dont think the hit boxes or armor was fixed. I am seeing them spawn a lot more though, and I am seeing my teams prioritize them  a lot more. I think that right there should say they need a nerf though... if the team is ignoring other obvious threats and taking out the ospreys first... yea... its still OP. Id say reduce the damage and status proc to 0%, or change the damage type from poison to corrosive. That way it weakens your armor and you take more damage from the others, would make it more support type like its meant to be.

 

Despite some of that negative feed back however Im still excited about the changes and I think the infested are FINALLY starting to shape up into something worthwhile after all this time of being jokes. So I still applaud and encourage you to continue DE, just make sure you're attempts arent as half-assed as these appear to be... it really is like shooting yourself in the foot on the first step. Still, the direction is the right direction at least...

Edited July 21, 2014 by unmog