A Suggestion To Install A Small Equipment Progression System

[Renegade343]

Hello all,

 

This thread will detail a suggestion to create equipment progression in Warframe, so that players can have some sort of goal to achieve, as well as moving a few weapons around to make players question less about the system. Please note that this is just a rough idea, and can be subject to change (and you can be part of it, if you like). The content is below: 

 

Now most people have some issues with Prime equipment, mainly because they seem to invalidate some of the market weapons, or even Clan Tech weapons, due to having a very low Mastery Requirement for a stronger power. Thus, my little idea is below: 

 

In order to use a Prime equipment (if the equipment has a normal counterpart), the player must obtain the normal counterpart first, then rank it up to 30. Once the equipment has been ranked up to 30, then the player can do a random, Mastery-Rank like test using said equipment (preferably tests that actually require some skill with the equipment to pass). 

 

Once the player passes the test, then he/she can use the Prime equipment, but the Prime equipment's Mastery Rank requirement will be the normal counterpart's Mastery Rank requirement + 4, from a minimum of 5 to a maximum of 10 (e.g.: With this new system, the Braton Prime will require Mastery Rank 5 [Current: 0] and pass the Braton Rank 30 test in order to be used [can still be crafted as the components will still drop as normal regardless of Mastery Rank], while the Boltor Prime will require Mastery Rank 6 [Current: 2] and pass the Boltor Rank 30 test in order to be used). This will also be applied to standalone Prime equipment. 

 

Alternate proposal to the Prime equipment requirement (thanks to -CM-Anoncat and -UW-Skretax who commented that mastering the normal counterparts up to Rank 30 may be boring to players): 

 

The requirements to use the Prime equipment will still be the normal counterpart's Mastery Rank requirement + 4, from a minimum of 5 to a maximum of 10 (can still be crafted as the components will still drop as normal regardless of Mastery Rank) (same as the previous proposal). If the player has crafted this weapon and has the sufficient Mastery Rank to use it, but it is the first time that he/she will use this Prime equipment, then he/she will be shown a screen stating that he/she will need to take a test in order to use the equipment. 

 

For weapons, the test consists of using the normal counterpart (if applicable) to complete two random missions, with a random selection of mods for the player that can only be used during the test (minimum of 4 and maximum of 6). It will be somewhat like the Mastery Rank tests, but the normal counterpart will be provided to the player (and taken back at the end of the test), as well as the random selection of mods. The weapon provided will be Rank 30 (without an Orokin Catalyst), with no other weapon, and the mods provided will be the same type as the weapon (e.g.: Tests for melee weapons will only give melee mods), but with random levels ranging from Rank 0 to max rank. For Prime weapons that do not have a normal counterpart, the player will use the Prime weapon to participate the test, but will not gain any Affinity. The player can choose any Warframe he/she has in his/her arsenal, but when used during the tests, it will be Rank 30 without any mods (maybe except for the first power, but this will need some thought). 

 

The mission type can be anything (maybe except for Defence), and will use either the same tilesets as the normal missions (Earth Forests, Grineer Galleon etc.) or a simulation of it (ala Mastery Rank Tests). This will also be applied to enemies. The tilesets will be random each time to initiate fairness and act as a more better test of skill. For Assassination missions, the assassination target can be the ones from the pre-U9 ones, but slightly buffed up with a few more mechanics (such as avoiding the worst of the bolt torrent) to challenge the player a bit more. 

 

For Warframes, the test consists of using the normal counterpart to complete two random missions as well, with one weapon of the player's choice (will be unmodded during the test), and a random selection of Warframe mods for the player that can only be used during the test, with the four corresponding Warframe powers always appearing (minimum of 6 and a maximum of 8). The Warframe provided will be Rank 30 (without an Orokin Reactor), and the mods provided will have random levels ranging from Rank 0 to max rank. The Warframe and the random mods will be given at the start of the test and taken back at the end of the test (like a loan). 

 

For all these tests, the enemies will scale based on the tested weapon's power or the tested Warframe's total health (temporary, may change). 

 

After the first mission, the player has an option to go and change the mod loadout of the tested weapon/Warframe in order to adapt to the next mission. 

 

Failing or quitting the test will make the player wait for 3 hours before he/she can take the test again.

 

In exchange for this (thanks to Shion963 for reminding me), Prime equipment can be obtained through a small token system alongside the current system, detailed in this thread (see EDIT 12). 

 

To make some sort of tier for equipment (as we mentioned Clan Tech weaponry at the first paragraph), Clan Tech weaponry will have Mastery Ranks between Ranks 4 to 6, except for Warframes (meaning those with requirements of Mastery Rank 7 or above will be decreased to Mastery Rank 6, and those with requirements of Mastery Rank 3 or below will be increased to Mastery Rank 4.), making them somewhat in the middle between the Market and Prime weapons (under the suggestion). Some weapon Ranks for Clan Tech will be changed, and this will be detailed below (to be expanded): 

 

Dual Cestra: Rank 4

Grinlok: Rank 4

Lanka: Rank 5

Flux Rifle: Rank 5

 

Some weapons will be moved around for this system to work. This will be detailed below (to be expanded): 

 

The Cestra will be moved to the Energy Lab. 

The Akstilettos will be moved to the Market, with the Mastery Rank requirement increased to Rank 3. 

The Spectra will be moved to the Market (with a decrease in Mastery Rank requirement to Rank 2, with a small buff in damage to 10 [1 Impact, 7.5 Puncture, 1.5 Slash]), just to give new players a small taste for what the Energy Lab will contain.

 

The Market weapons can stay largely the same for now (but as always, will be subject to change). 

 

Please take the time to read this thread, and give any constructive comments and criticism so that this thread can be improved (and I will try my best to acknowledge the member). 

 

Renegade343

 

To see my other threads, please go to my profile.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Renegade343

[Doughalo2]

YES we need this.

[Shion963]

Requiring players to have and master the mundane version is awesome, but it would just add another unwanted layer to go through if acquiring the Prime parts is kept as it is right now. That will also need to be reworked. i.e.:

 

Currently:

Powerful gear, Difficult to get, No requirements to use

 

after:

Powerful gear, Easy to obtain, Requires mundane mastered + worthiness test

 

EDIT: Put simply:

It'd piss me off if I have to grind through the mundane version all through Rank 30, go do a test with it, and on top of that have to deal with the RNG-upon-RNG of the current Prime acquisition model.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Shion963

[Renegade343]

Requiring players to have and master the mundane version is awesome, but it would just add another unwanted layer to go through if acquiring the Prime parts is kept as it is right now. That will also need to be reworked. i.e.:

 

Currently:

Powerful gear, Difficult to get, No requirements to use

 

after:

Powerful gear, Easy to obtain, Requires mundane mastered + worthiness test

Powerful gear is easy to obtain due to the trading update for Prime parts (although it may vary, depending how much are you willing to pay for them). 

 

After all, Prime weapons are meant to the the 'original' weapons we used before the fall of the Orokin, so it stands that we should master the non-Prime version, then rank up a few more Mastery Ranks to use such powerful weaponry (think of it as like wielding the Monado in Xenoblade Chronicles, if you like). 

[Renegade343]

EDIT: Put simply:

It'd &!$$ me off if I have to grind through the mundane version all through Rank 30, go do a test with it, and on top of that have to deal with the RNG-upon-RNG of the current Prime acquisition model.

Well, time difference in forums sure makes a difference, no? 

 

If so, then I will show you another one of my suggestions, targeted at dealing with the problem of the current Prime acquisition model. 

 

Link: 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/236973-some-suggestions-to-make-gameplay-more-engagingrewarding-edit-22-moved-to-a-new-thread/ (see EDIT 12). 

[Hawner]

*applause*

 

Exactly what this game needs. Finally another one that thinks like me. That should be applied to frames as well in some fashion (to use Ember Prime you must have and have ranked to 30 the original ember). With that, you have a reason to use the originals and then, if you want, go for the primed.

 

Excelent. ^^

[Renegade343]

*applause*

 

Exactly what this game needs. Finally another one that thinks like me. That should be applied to frames as well in some fashion (to use Ember Prime you must have and have ranked to 30 the original ember). With that, you have a reason to use the originals and then, if you want, go for the primed.

 

Excelent. ^^

Equipment = Weapons/Warframes/Sentinels (because I am not in the mood to write the latter). 

[don231]

YES we need this.

NO we don't 

[Renegade343]

NO we don't 

And why is that?

[Doughalo2]

NO we don't 

YES because players get bored quick if they can get the best strait away !

[SSI_Kryptix]

I like this idea but I don't think it would be as cool as it seems for you, it would be a big pain in the &#! if every single thing needs you to take a test

Edited July 8, 2014 by -UW-Skretax

[Renegade343]

I like this idea but I don't think it would be as cool as it seems for you, it would be a big pain in the @$$ if every single thing needs you to take a teat

Just the Prime equipment, nothing more, just because the Prime weapons are the 'original' weapons (stronger), meaning to see if we are worthy of wielding these weapons, we need to train ourselves to use the normal counterpart. 

 

Also, this would theoretically allow players to play around with more weapons if they want Prime equipment.

 

EDIT: This only applies to pure Prime equipment (i.e. will not be applicable for hybrid weapons such as the Seer). 

Edited July 8, 2014 by Renegade343

[CBAROG]

Good idea.

[Renegade343]

A small bump to collect feedback and criticism to improve this thread. 

[Renegade343]

Added an exchange for Prime equipment acquisition (thanks to Shion963 for reminding about this). 

[Llyssa]

I don't see how this adds anything to the game.

[Renegade343]

I don't see how this adds anything to the game.

The ultimate goal is to add a small tier for weapons in the game, allowing players to have some sort of progress, even if it may be minor (and also to solve the power issues with Prime equipment and Clan Tech weapons). 

[Llyssa]

The ultimate goal is to add a small tier for weapons in the game, allowing players to have some sort of progress, even if it may be minor (and also to solve the power issues with Prime equipment and Clan Tech weapons). 

So nothing. Okay.

[AnonCat]

Good idea, as long as the weapon tests only applied to Prime weapons.

 

Mastering the normal version of the weapon first is a redundancy. It's not worth the chore for most players, they will resent having to level the same weapon twice. Not fun for those who aren't competitionists.

Edited July 9, 2014 by -CM-AnonCat

[Renegade343]

So nothing. Okay.

How is it nothing?

[Renegade343]

Good idea, as long as the weapon tests only applied to Prime weapons.

 

Mastering the normal version of the weapon first is a redundancy. It's not worth the chore for most players, they will resent having to level the same weapon twice. Not fun for those who aren't competitionists.

I am on the fence about this, as I do want players to play around with the normal weapons first, just to make the developers' creations be appreciated a bit more. But I do see your point about redundancies. Let me try to think of something else. 

[Llyssa]

Weapon tiering is my least favorite part of every single game it's included in. The idea of it granting a sense of "progress" is strange and pointless, and further asks for things to be "properly tiered", which would involve purposely nerfing a multitude of weapons down to the "correct" tier. (No, this would NOT involve buffing, as whatever is deemed "high tier" is already designed for what is deemed "high end", ergo, it's fine).

 

On top of that, you say it would fix the "power issue", which is a rather nebulous term, unless you're, again, demanding the nerf of a multitude of weapons to make these seem "better".

 

It's already been pointed out, repeatedly, that the game progression is already very much against new players, without adding a layer of nerf to what they can access, and then denying them access to more.

 

It makes a grind wall a requirement, it makes a clanwall a requirement, and produces an artificial divide in the community, all in the name of a pretended sense of ego for players who are new to the game and proceed through this mess, whilst offering absolutely nothing to the older players at all, save for a need to smash the egos of the said new players that think there's something special about their progress, and nerf to the system in general.

 

Oh, and this means more mastery tests for us to do for everything we don't acquire before this ner%&^eddon is installed. Oh, and, of course, having weapons we actually liked being nerfed for the sake of this imaginary progression chart.

 

So, in short: Nothing.

[Renegade343]

Weapon tiering is my least favorite part of every single game it's included in. The idea of it granting a sense of "progress" is strange and pointless, and further asks for things to be "properly tiered", which would involve purposely nerfing a multitude of weapons down to the "correct" tier. (No, this would NOT involve buffing, as whatever is deemed "high tier" is already designed for what is deemed "high end", ergo, it's fine).

 

On top of that, you say it would fix the "power issue", which is a rather nebulous term, unless you're, again, demanding the nerf of a multitude of weapons to make these seem "better".

 

It's already been pointed out, repeatedly, that the game progression is already very much against new players, without adding a layer of nerf to what they can access, and then denying them access to more.

 

It makes a grind wall a requirement, it makes a clanwall a requirement, and produces an artificial divide in the community, all in the name of a pretended sense of ego for players who are new to the game and proceed through this mess, whilst offering absolutely nothing to the older players at all, save for a need to smash the egos of the said new players that think there's something special about their progress, and nerf to the system in general.

 

Oh, and this means more mastery tests for us to do for everything we don't acquire before this ner%&^eddon is installed. Oh, and, of course, having weapons we actually liked being nerfed for the sake of this imaginary progression chart.

 

So, in short: Nothing.

Fine, I agree about the grind wall argument (and maybe the tests), but I still stand by the stance the Prime equipment should be locked away for a bit until the player sinks his/her teeth into the game (since trading has rendered Prime equipment being quite commonplace amongst new players, meaning they skipped most of the content). 

 

EDIT: And for the record, all I am doing with this is to sort out the place of some weapons so that they would enjoy a bit more use from players (although I am now inclined to remove the Mastery Rank requirement mechanism). 

Edited July 9, 2014 by Renegade343

[Renegade343]

Added an alternate proposal based on player feedback. 

[Renegade343]

Bumping back up to collect feedback.