We Need A Buff To Make Those Pointless Mods To Have Some Purpose Until The Mod System Is Improved

[Guest khk6]

tl;dr: DE please buff for all the weak mods! They aren't going to be near useful as the essential mods, so atleast make them fun to use!

 

Also prepare for some painful combination of awkward english grammars + long post. apology beforehand :|  

 

So what's the problem with the current mod system?

1. The existence of the essential, must-have mods (Redirection, Serration, Multishot etc)

2. While not on essential level, some mods are clearly more useful then other mods

 -For weapons, elemental mods and fire rate for example. The damage increase you can get in a single mod is so significant that it outperforms the "utility" mods. +30% magazine size or reload speed is too small compared to +90% elemental damage. Faster kill would result in less ammo consumption and reload frequency anyway.

 -For warframes, The ability and their affecting mods (such as Focus and Streamline). They are generally more important than many other utility mods. The OD mods are especially too useful, like Fleeting Expertise making many abilities spamable.

3. The mod slot limit gives each mods their own "slot efficiency" value, which further makes underpowered mods worth lower.

4. Some mods are too situational and/or too weak. Warm Coat for example, you don't even know when you will enter frozen levels, and it only gives 12% resistance at max rank. Similar mods include Intruder, Aviator, etc. They definitely aren't worth its own mod slot.

 

Not to say that many of the lacking mods are outright useless. Stamina mods helps you with running around and melee, Handspring makes knockdown less frustrating, and Eagle Eye makes long range aiming easier. But when you have to compare them to many of the popular mods and decide what to equip, the general conclusion is that weaker mods aren't worth replacing the superior mods (obviously), resulting in a very bland and limiting build diversity in terms of performance. 

 

So how do you fix all this? Addressing every single flaws and implementing a perfect solution is going to take alot of time and effort. There are lots of great suggestions in the forum, and I too beleive that the mod system should change soon, but until then, here's a temporal but a bit more simple band-aid fix:

 

Buff all the weak and unpopular mods.

Either by simply increasing the stats, combining the effect of other mods, or giving the mod a rework.

 

A little off-topic, but until recently, the bows were the lowest tiers of all weapons. Even the snipers were better. Then, one day DE really buffed the damage for the bows up. The arrows still has the travel time, has low fire rate, and suffers from low ammo drop, but now you can even take down T4 void heavies in a single shot. It gave them purpose and, more importantly, made the weapon alot more fun to use. Landing that arrow and dish out 5-digit damage in a single hit, then watching the victim fly away is good satisfaction.

 

Buffing the mods to a point that makes them standout should give you some fun in its own way. That Diamond Skin still may not replace Vitality, but if it has its own purpose and is more attractive, it would give us some fun toys to play around with until mod 3.0 comes out. 

 

So here's my examples for the mod buffs (or rework). All of the stats are when the mods are at max rank.

 

Warframe mods

Acrobat: -72% stamina cost for all actions.

Aviator: Gain low grav jump similar to Zephyr. Gain 20% damage resistance and allow 2 extra jumps while airborne. 

Diamond Skin: Merge with Antitoxin, Flame Repellent, Insulation, Lightning Rod, and Warm Coat. 45% reduction from all elemental damage and 100% resistance against all status effect (including shield reduction in frozen level) while your shield is up.

Handspring: Upon receiving a knockdown attack , you automatically perform a fast backflip, nullifying the knockdown effect and damage. Has a Internal cooldown of 12 seconds. Faster knockdown recovery. 

Heavy Impact:  Increase the radius a little, and make the enemy knock upwards instead of a simple knockdown.

Marathon: Merge with Quick Rest. +120% max stamina and stamina regen.

Master Thief: Merge with Intruder. Interacting with consoles/panels will cause all lockers in the current and each adjacent room to activate and open, including the red lockers. Also allows automatic instant hack and increase the affinity gained from hacking to 1200. Useful for quick resource run.

Retribution: Merge with Reflection. 120% damage reflection while blocking, with 60% chance to shock the enemy with reflected attack. Receiving melee attack will shock the enemy 100% of the time.

Rush: merge with Maglev.

Sure Footed: Merge with Shock Absorbers. You will stagger instead when knocked down. Internal cooldown of 7 seconds. 40% damage reduction while knocked down.

Undying Will: Merge with Provoked. For every 2% health missing, you receive 1% damage reduction and 0.5% damage boost. Damage boost is tripled while down.

Vigor: Merge with Fast Deflection. +120% health and shield, +90% shield regen.

 

Primary weapon mods

Ammo Drum: Merge with Magazine Warp. Increase ammo pool and magazine capacity by 60%.

Critical Delay: Increase crit chance and crit damage by 100%, reduce fire rate by 50%.

Eagle Eye: Zoom +60%. Increase damage the longer bullet travels. Capped at +120% damage at 40m.

Piercing Hit, Rupture, and Sawtooth Clip: Adds +72% pierce/impact/slash damage to any weapon. (Don't ask how a Ignis is going to impact something with flames. Space ninja logic)

Rifle Aptitude: +15% status chance, +45% status effect potency. Meaning viral will decrease enemy health by 72%, cold slows enemy more, damage procs will have deal more damage, corrosive melts more armor, etc.

Tainted Mag: +165% magazine size, -66% reload speed.

Vile Precision: -90% recoil, +90% accuracy, -42% fire rate.

 

The meta isn't going to change. Your ideal weapon will still be to stack as much damage as possible, and warframes are going have most of its mod slot filled with Redirection, Vitality, and ability mods. 

 

Above examples may not be ideal, but my point is to give the mods some purpose and a degree of fun.

You can turn a Rhino into a balloon, or Zephyr into the queen of skies with Aviator. Go full melee with Acrobat, Marathon, and Retribution. Give Valkyr a little more berserker theme with Undying Will. Specialize a weapon for long range with Eagle Eye and Vile Precision. Or go trigger happy with Tainted Mag Supra. One of the fun in RPG games is developing your character to have uniqueness, and having more viable build diversity to play around with is a good thing.

 

One of the concern I have though is that, the mod merging in my example. While it could be a temporal solution for the diluted drop tables, compensating for the merged mods will be a problem. ...Not like there's a point in worrying about it though, its highly unlikely that this idea will actually be implemented in game :p but assuming it does, I imagine it requires some working, like letting people keep the retired mods, but modify it so you cant equip mods with same name. (Stacking old and new Rush to exploit super speed and such) 

Edited July 15, 2014 by khk6

[2old4gamez]

Don't use them until the mod system is improved?

[MrA1]

2 extra jumps ? -_-

[Davoodoo]

Don't use them until the mod system is improved?

How exactly that fixes the problem?? What incentive do developers have to prioritize improving mod system?? If players can simply ignore underpowered mods, its not important to fix it.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Althix]

topic starter. i really doubt that somebody, in the right set of mind, would change blind rage for acrobat.

 

we don't have any freedom about how to build frames or weapons. and it's not about buffing or nerfing mods, it's about game mechanics which are... well... not good enough.

[Kestral9999]

Legitimately GREAT ideas man. Would love to see these implemented. But knowing DE, they will instead leave mods the same and make more rare or common versions of each mod. In my opinion, the rarer versions of mods should have these supplemental effects rather than a simple stat increase.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Kestral9999

[Jahadaya]

That Critical Delay will make Soma God

 

Absolutely amazing idea though :) This has to be put into the game

Edited July 15, 2014 by Jahadaya

[steak]

2 extra jumps ? -_-

Double and triple jumping are staples of gaming for as long as I can remember. Could actually be useful in conjunction with the current parkour maneuvers.

 

I like the idea of merging stuff to make it more appealing.

[Mastikator2]

2 extra jumps ? -_-

We can change momentum in the air by sliding and making slide attacks, why not air jumps too?

 

Anyway, good effort +1

Edited July 15, 2014 by Mastikator2

[Heyrey]

 

Critical Delay: Increase crit chance and crit damage by 100%, reduce fire rate by 100%.

 

 

I looked at your Critical Delay stats. Your new "idea" for  the mod causes it to become useless at max rank due to the fact that you cannot fire a gun with 0-rps (rounds per second).

 

EX: The Soma has a firing rate of 15.0-rps. If 100% of 15 =15, the reduction will not allow it to fire at all because of the new 0-rps stat.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Heyrey

[don231]

this is actually a pretty good idea 

[Jahadaya]

I looked at your Critical Delay stats. Your new "idea" for  the mod causes it to become useless at max rank due to the fact that you cannot fire a gun with 0-rps (rounds per second).

 

EX: The Soma has a firing rate of 15-rps. If 100% of 15 =15, the reduction will not allow it to fire at all because of the new 0-rps stat.

Holy crap lol why didn't I notice that. Anyways, well with a max speed trigger along with this = soma godliness

[(PSN)MoriartyHaaaiii]

A lot of these (such as diamond skin) sound horribly overpowered, but that makes me actually want to swap out a redirection for diamond skin on some builds, so good work! I like it.

[Kestral9999]

One thing I will bring up is that if this is implemented, what happens to the mods that have been fused into other mods? Do they just disappear, or do they become a copy of whatever mod they were transferred into? And do they retain their mod rank?

 

Another thing is that you're basically turning every mod that isn't already directly useful into a nightmare mod and that would really throw the game out of balance in terms of how much mods would cost on the user market. However, it would help to reduce the rediculously diluted mod pool.

 

Hmm, the more I think about this the less sure I am about how I feel about the changes. I mean, there's no doubt this would make the game more fun, and you could obtain great mods with ease, but it kinda would feel like a kick in the nuts to veteran players who busted their @$$ grinding for those mods only to see them fused into other mods. Granted, you are proposing the fusion of less useful mods, but I've personally paid platinum for some of those less useful mods (because despite 400+ hours of gametime I couldn't get a damned Vigor -.-) so it would feel like that purchase was a waste.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Kestral9999

[Kestral9999]

Holy crap lol why didn't I notice that. Anyways, well with a max speed trigger along with this = soma godliness

0+(100% of 0) = 0

 

It still wouldn't fire lol. He would have to change the max stats to -80% fire rate.

[steak]

One thing I will bring up is that if this is implemented, what happens to the mods that have been fused into other mods? Do they just disappear, or do they become a copy of whatever mod they were transferred into? And do they retain their mod rank?

 

Another thing is that you're basically turning every mod that already directly useful into a nightmare mod and that would really throw the game out of balance in terms of how much mods would cost on the user market. However, it would help to reduce the rediculously diluted mod pool.

 

Hmm, the more I think about this the less sure I am about how I feel about the changes. I mean, there's no doubt this would make the game more fun, and you could obtain great mods with ease, but it kinda would feel like a kick in the nuts to veteran players who busted their @$$ grinding for those mods only to see them fused into other mods. Granted, you are proposing the fusion of less useful mods, but I've personally paid platinum for some of those less useful mods (because despite 400+ hours of gametime I couldn't get a damned Vigor -.-) so it would feel like that purchase was a waste.

As someone who farmed and grinded for some of those mods all I can say is that it would bring me great joy to see them become useful.

[Khranitel]

Yummy mod ideas, OP. +1.

[Heyrey]

Holy crap lol why didn't I notice that. Anyways, well with a max speed trigger along with this = soma godliness

That depends upon when the effect is added. For example, Heavy Caliber doesn't calculate the extra damage from Serration+Base Damage. It calculates from base damage only.

 

If you calculate Critical delay before or after calculating Speed trigger (which adds 60% firing speed at max rank), you still are unable to fire because the rps=0.

 

Please, do the math before commenting.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Heyrey

[Kestral9999]

As someone who farmed and grinded for some of those mods all I can say is that it would bring me great joy to see them become useful.

That's a fair point, and I'm entirely in agreement. I'm just trying to look at this realistically, because if DE even thought of doing something like this, there are going to be naysayers as there have been with everything they've ever done. Even the Liset o.o

 

The effects of implementing this kind of overhaul are far reaching and not to be taken lightly, it would entirely change the mechanics of the game since your warframe would basically be twice as OP as it already is. Something I'm certainly not opposed to, but that isn't the only change that would come. Just the most obvious one.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Kestral9999

[Guest khk6]

Sorry about that -100% fire rate critical delay, I meant cut the fire rate in half so its -50% to be exact.

[Jahadaya]

That depends upon when the effect is added. For example, Heavy Caliber doesn't calculate the extra damage from Serration+Base Damage. It calculates from base damage only.

 

If you calculate Critical delay before or after calculating Speed trigger (which adds 60% firing speed at max rank), you still are unable to fire because the rps=0.

 

Please, do the math before commenting.

As usual in this game, all increases to stats are calculated off of base values, or else stacking would be ridiculously complicated. So, the speed trigger would add 60% of the base fire rate, it would not add it based on Critical Delay.

[Heyrey]

As usual in this game, all increases to stats are calculated off of base values, or else stacking would be ridiculously complicated. So, the speed trigger would add 60% of the base fire rate, it would not add it based on Critical Delay.

Ok, thank you.

It's the Grineer

Edited July 15, 2014 by Heyrey

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

How about just making them cost no more than 5 points at max rank?

[notionphil]

I agree with the stated purpose of the thread, however:

 

1) Your numbers are way off.

 

For example, you just gave us a TRIPLE JUMP. Not even a double jump. C'mon dawg.

 

• 100% Shock on melee with Retribution; ever hear of the infested?

   

• ALL Knockdowns reduced to Staggers with SureFooted?

   

• Eagle Eye now increases base damage by up to 120%....at what tradeoff?
  
  

   

Do you realize a 4th elemental mod only increases dmg by like 10% overall? Compare that to the 40% or so Eagle Eye would give at regular combat ranges.

 

 

2) You are also buffing "good" mods by combining "bad mods" into them

 

Just fix the bad mods instead. EX:

 

Rush is already viable, don't buff it by adding maglev. Fix maglev instead.

 

Fast Deflection is already viable, don't buff it by adding vigor into it. Fix Vigor instead.

 

 

3) You're totally rewriting damage and survivability without any thought to balance or tradeoffs.

 

So basically, instead of having 0 build diversity, we'll have TONS of immensely powerful options, and be nearly invincible.

 

Not much better.

 

Plz fix numbers/balance so your thread has a shot at being implemented, bc the concept is good.

Edited July 15, 2014 by notionphil

[Telapoopy]

Weapons have a huge problem with a lack of variety in loadouts. This is all thanks to elemental damage. Instead of adding an element to a weapon, they simply increase the damage output by cramming as many of them in as you can. There are so many elemental mods available for each weapon that there's no room for utility mods. Any weapon that needs a utility mod (such as reload speed for the supra), suffers greatly because the base stats don't compensate for the one less elemental mod you can fit on your weapon.

 

I call for an Elemental Damage 2.0