APBladeX Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 With the recent addition of U14, you may have noticed that infinite wall-running is no longer possible. Meanwhile, meleecoptering has been confirmed by DE to be a permanent method of travel. If so, why should infinite wall-running be removed? If we have the stamina, shouldn't we be able to access high places without being limited to warframes like Zephyr, Loki, and Valkyr? I thought Warframe was about choice. So, I am giving the community a choice in this matter to voice their opinions and influence DE's final outcome of this removal. I am personally on the side of To Be, so the following list may be biased. Feel free to include more reasons for these arguments in this thread to provide a stable flow of opinions from the community. Please consider this and remain respectful. Here's some reasoning to back up both sides of the argument: To Be: 1. Allowed players to reach high places, including secret Void rooms and ideal sniping locations. 2. Allowed players to freely move around the map. 3. Was nice addition to Warframe's parkour movement. Counterargument: If meleecoptering has been confirmed by DE to be a permanent method of movement, why should infinite wall-running be removed? It has great utility and allows players to strategically position themselves and support team gameplay from above, especially with snipers and bows and those players who prefer long-range gameplay. Not To Be: 1. Made no sense in terms of physics. 2. Gameplay breaking and a cheap method of movement, like meleecoptering. Counterargument: Please provide a respectful counterargument to the opposing side in this thread so I can edit the original post to provide a stable discussion from both sides to get a proper poll on this issue from the community for DE's viewing. Poll link: http://strawpoll.me/2171158 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alad_VI Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Infinite wall running (as stated very clearly in the patch notes) was removed as it was an exploit in certain mission types where players could cheat to accomplish the objective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheErebus. Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 When i heard coptering is an actual method of movement in dark souls, I was very disappointed. When I heard this happened, I didn't know where to stand. But I suppose I'm in the not to be. Also the physics part…eeeh it's a video game so physics can be broken once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBladeX Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Infinite wall running (as stated very clearly in the patch notes) was removed as it was an exploit in certain mission types where players could cheat to accomplish the objective Which missions would that be? As far as I know, none of the current missions require the players to climb to high places except for the rocket/defense combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutMonster Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Coptering is so annoying ;_; I wish DE removed it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatose Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 "Allowed players to reach secret void rooms" should actually be in the con as well, and read "Allowed players to reach secret void rooms with considerably less effort then the wall-rebounding technique the rooms are clearly designed for." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBladeX Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 When i heard coptering is an actual method of movement in dark souls, I was very disappointed. When I heard this happened, I didn't know where to stand. But I suppose I'm in the not to be. Also the physics part…eeeh it's a video game so physics can be broken once in a while. Can you elaborate on what made you decide to make your stance on the issue "Not To Be"? I want to learn of everyone's opinions on the matter to see both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBladeX Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) "Allowed players to reach secret void rooms" should actually be in the con as well, and read "Allowed players to reach secret void rooms with considerably less effort then the wall-rebounding technique the rooms are clearly designed for." Then would the same argument go for Excalibur's Super Jump, Volt's Speed, Zephyr's Tail Wind, Vauban's Bounce, Loki's Decoy and Switch Teleport, Ash's Teleport, and Valkyr's Ripline? EDIT: it is also balanced out heavily by stamina consumption. Edited July 22, 2014 by APBladeX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zergla Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Coptering is so annoying ;_; I wish DE removed it as well. Better yet; have both of the features. EDIT: Also, doesn't coptering break any missions? Completely bypassing any enemies that could possibly be obstacles? Isn't that why infinite wallrun was removed, because you could bypass certain obstacles? Edited July 22, 2014 by zergla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheErebus. Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Can you elaborate on what made you decide to make your stance on the issue "Not To Be"? I want to learn of everyone's opinions on the matter to see both sides. Not exactly sure how to explain it. I've never been a fan of exploits but at the same time this one does legitimately cause issues when it comes to reaching those secret areas. But those secret areas are just a small part of the game. While people who play as booben can just go up top those pillars in derelict defense and just not do a damn thing. Which is a much larger issue (if that's the right word) than "Oh i can't get to the secret room". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatose Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Then would the same argument go for Excalibur's Super Jump, Volt's Speed, Zephyr's Tail Wind, Vauban's Bounce, Loki's Decoy and Switch Teleport, Ash's Teleport, and Valkyr's Ripline? EDIT: it is also balanced out heavily by stamina consumption. Absolutely - and all those methods require using a mod-slot up for a mobility enhancement. Thus, they have a trade off. Glitch-running does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBladeX Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Not exactly sure how to explain it. I've never been a fan of exploits but at the same time this one does legitimately cause issues when it comes to reaching those secret areas. But those secret areas are just a small part of the game. While people who play as booben can just go up top those pillars in derelict defense and just not do a damn thing. Which is a much larger issue (if that's the right word) than "Oh i can't get to the secret room". I see. Thanks for your opinion. The issue with the defense missions as Vauban is just strategic gameplay (assuming they're actually doing anything up there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AveryJ Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Which missions would that be? As far as I know, none of the current missions require the players to climb to high places except for the rocket/defense combination. there are a few tiles in the void, and as stated in the op its great if you like snipers and want to play a frame like ash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBladeX Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Absolutely - and all those methods require using a mod-slot up for a mobility enhancement. Thus, they have a trade off. Glitch-running does not. Stamina mods do take mod-slots, due to the fact that infinite wall-running takes A LOT of stamina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatose Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Stamina mods do take mod-slots, due to the fact that infinite wall-running takes A LOT of stamina. I'd suggest the void rooms in question don't actually require anywhere near the amount of stamina you're suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 With the recent addition of U14, you may have noticed that infinite wall-running is no longer possible. Meanwhile, meleecoptering has been confirmed by DE to be a permanent method of travel. If so, why should infinite wall-running be removed? If we have the stamina, shouldn't we be able to access high places without being limited to warframes like Zephyr, Loki, and Valkyr? I thought Warframe was about choice. So, I am giving the community a choice in this matter to voice their opinions and influence DE's final outcome of this removal. I am personally on the side of To Be, so the following list may be biased. Feel free to include more reasons for these arguments in this thread to provide a stable flow of opinions from the community. Please consider this and remain respectful. Here's some reasoning to back up both sides of the argument: To Be: 1. Allowed players to reach high places, including secret Void rooms and ideal sniping locations. 2. Allowed players to freely move around the map. 3. Was nice addition to Warframe's parkour movement. Counterargument: If meleecoptering has been confirmed by DE to be a permanent method of movement, why should infinite wall-running be removed? It has great utility and allows players to strategically position themselves and support team gameplay from above, especially with snipers and bows and those players who prefer long-range gameplay. Not To Be: 1. Made no sense in terms of physics. 2. Gameplay breaking and a cheap method of movement, like meleecoptering. Counterargument: Please provide a respectful counterargument to the opposing side in this thread so I can edit the original post to provide a stable discussion from both sides to get a proper poll on this issue from the community for DE's viewing. Poll link: http://strawpoll.me/2171158 Warframe should be about choice You can choose to take a frame that can travel or choose not to Or you can choose to use utility powers or not since you can wall run most places and save the mod slot for something else And dont say youll use those powers because most people dont use the powers for travel and if they do theyll use it significantly less than a simple wall run Melee coptering as a defense is poor If thats bad why make parkour abuse worse? Why not advocate for the removal of both rather than use it as a reason to bring it back "they removed parkour and not coptering. Both are bad but we should bring parkour back if coptering is staying instead of fixing both" Seriously these things are so bluntly obvious.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)kiddplay13 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Absolutely - and all those methods require using a mod-slot up for a mobility enhancement. Thus, they have a trade off. Glitch-running does not. Here's the thing though, they most likely already have these abilities in their respective slot, there is no trade-off considering the mod slot is polarized specifically for abilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBladeX Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Warframe should be about choice You can choose to take a frame that can travel or choose not to Or you can choose to use utility powers or not since you can wall run most places and save the mod slot for something else And dont say youll use those powers because most people dont use the powers for travel and if they do theyll use it significantly less than a simple wall run Melee coptering as a defense is poor If thats bad why make parkour abuse worse? Why not advocate for the removal of both rather than use it as a reason to bring it back "they removed parkour and not coptering. Both are bad but we should bring parkour back if coptering is staying instead of fixing both" Seriously these things are so bluntly obvious.... Except for the fact that DE stated in a livestream with CERTAINTY that meleecoptering is going to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBladeX Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Better yet; have both of the features. EDIT: Also, doesn't coptering break any missions? Completely bypassing any enemies that could possibly be obstacles? Isn't that why infinite wallrun was removed, because you could bypass certain obstacles? Apparently, but of course, DE contradicts themselves with this decision. In a recent livestream, DE stated with certainty that coptering would remain a method of mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phatose Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) Here's the thing though, they most likely already have these abilities in their respective slot, there is no trade-off considering the mod slot is polarized specifically for abilities Which they could repolarize, or simply use with a cost penalty. If someone has those abilities equipped, they've specifically chose to trade that slot for extra mobility, and it's perfectly reasonable they should get extra mobility. That is not the same as getting extra mobility because of a glitch in the game engine. Edited July 22, 2014 by Phatose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azawarau Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Except for the fact that DE stated in a livestream with CERTAINTY that meleecoptering is going to stay. That can be changed and doesnt change the fact that its abusive If nothing else shouldnt we be trying to cut it down as much as possible at the least? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zergla Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Apparently, but of course, DE contradicts themselves with this decision. In a recent livestream, DE stated with certainty that coptering would remain a method of mobility. Yeah. Complete bullS#&$ in my opinion. A better idea would be to keep it in until a better parkour system is in place and THEN remove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APBladeX Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Yeah. Complete bullS#&$ in my opinion. A better idea would be to keep it in until a better parkour system is in place and THEN remove it. I do agree somewhat that the parkour system in Warframe should receive a few tweaks, but until then, these methods of mobility are fine and shouldn't be removed. There are so many ways of parkouring in Warframe, it's gotten to the point where DE should just fix the glitchy areas of the tilesets and move on to more important things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Drew Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Even though some players enjoyed it, the infinite wall run was an unintentional bug and exploit. Locking this thread to keep that message clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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