[Kubrow Breeding] Reviewed & Suggestion For A Genetic Forge Using Specific Trait-Cards

[MeduSalem]

So I wanted to give the breeding the benefit of doubt and experiment a little bit around with it since it sounded pretty interesting in concept.

 

But the cold fact: With the current system it’s near to impossible to make something useful with the Puppy blender because of too many random and unknown factors being involved in the whole process.

 

 

 

Lack of Information on the current breeding system:

 

The most obvious thing that bothers me as well as many other people is the lack of official description on how the whole puppy-blender breeding mechanic works in detail. The lack of information of what the dominant/recessive traits are, which traits are available, how they work together, how they work when mixed/blended and what not.

 

Instead we have nothing and it literally makes no fun if you keep on getting results that can’t be backtracked/retraced/replicated and comprehended in any logical sense because of RNG being involved everywhere. The outcomes often diverge from the input so far and there’s no real explanation as to why this keeps on happening. There are many examples to be found throughout the forum where people are disappointed of the results because they did not get what they wanted though they tried following common sense or the little information we have found here:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/268867-post-your-imprint-breeding-results-lets-try-and-figure-out-the-kubrow-genetics-imprints/

 

Also the lack of information provided by the game once you have scanned your Kubrow for Imprints is inconvenient as well. Yeah you have that nice visual representation of your Kubrow, but that doesn’t help/say much to be honest because of the hidden traits or even dominant traits not fully coming through strong enough to be visibly noticeable but make a huge difference once thrown into the blender.

 

It would be better if the game would also provide a "Text-format representation" of all the dominant/recessive traits found on your Kubrow after being done scanning. A simple list would be enough and people would actually know what they’ve got.

 

• Isn’t that the core reason behind why we scan our Kubrows? To reveal what its traits are?

 

It’s not only to give some insight on how that Breeding System actually works, but also to prevent that ridiculous trade-scamming that has taken over ever since U14 thanks to Imprints. Some people just don’t know what they are selling or they are lying on purpose to make a quick buck. Both of which have great influence on the resulting breed. You should be able to review all the traits of the Kubrow stored on the imprint by hovering over the Imprints, even in the trade window.

 

 

 

Current breeding system on longterm:

 

Even yuikami made the Kubrow comics mostly for fun and might not share any of my actual feelings there's some awfully sad truth involved in them:

 

http://yuikami-da.deviantart.com/art/201-469486250

 

 

Everyone experimenting a little bit with the breeding currently should have come to a similar conclusion:

 

Breeding generates a LOT of genetic waste material. Yes, I’m speaking of all the useless icecubes we are storing in the back of our Lisets because of failed results.

 

• Wasn’t the breeding supposed to “design” your ultimate Kubrow(s)? The ones you will stick with?

 

At least it has been described as such during the hype. It was supposed to create a Kubrow that you can relate to/bond with and that you want to keep and not store away in a fridge in disgust.

 

In that matter the current system heavily failed right away. Just for the sake of experimenting I’ve incubated 14 Kubrow eggs already. I don't mind the Plat for rushing some eggs because I've simply been curious.

 

Of all of those I created I got only one that is somewhat “tolerable” and is not the same bland blue-greyish-brownish mongrel with near to indifferent features and even on that one that’s not like the rest and is instead really dark grey/nearly black I still would like to change some traits in favor of some different because I’d rather like to have stripes instead of patches for example.

 

 

Well can't do that so back to the blender?

 

Honestly... No. I don’t even want to imagine how many more Kubrows I would need to finally get something I want to keep thanks to the randomness and many factors being involved throughout the breeding.

 

The current system is pretty much limiting everything. From the very beginning of having only 2 Imprints per Kubrow until the very fact that you’ve to pay tremendous amounts of Platinum for Imprints that might come close enough to something you want and even then it’s not guaranteed that the traits will carry over so you may start off at square one again and waste even more resources/Platinum.

 

There’s just too much pay & pray involved for the current system to be reliable and future-prove, which will become even worse when there are even more visual features around Kubrows can develop. Randomness on top of something you can only reliable experiment on with already investing Platinum for ridiculously priced Imprints is something that’s just too much to take.

 

The chance that those Imprints are getting cheaper with time is low because only 2 Imprints can be made per Kubrow and people will eventually stop making more Kubrows because they either bought what they wanted on the trade channel or are getting sick of the current implementation and leave it be altogether. Both of which will eventually lead to some stuff becoming near to extinct or horrendous to pay for. It's foreseeable and it's ugly.

 

The current Breeding System – I can’t describe it with other words – is a huge Platinum sink that only the most dedicated players can afford, while majority of the player base will be pretty sick of that soon once they’ve had it with that unreliability.

 

This is majorly also pushed by the high crafting and up-keep costs, Cool-downs for switching between Kubrows and the questionable advantages over Sentinels that are yet up to debate. But those have already their own threads.

 

 

 

So Breeding System 2.0 aka Genetic Forge using "Trait"-Cards (similar to Mod-Cards):

 

So I started thinking on an idea how to make breeding more reliable/deterministic as well as a fix for the removed “scrambling” feature.

 

My idea is to basically "isolate"/"extract" traits you like on a seperate Imprint ("Trait"-Card) that only hold those specifically selected traits – then put them on another existing Kubrow to mutate it (thereby making it more the way you want it) or combine several of those "trait"-cards to a completely new Template to hatch a new egg or sell those "Trait"-Cards on the trade channel.

 

 

 

How it would work in detail:

 

When scanning a Kubrow for imprints it should decrypt the whole DNA… putting a list on an Imprint with all the dominant/recessive trait-“alleles” that make up your Kubrow for you to review. So you exactly know what dominant/recessive traits your Kubrow has and which may be hidden.

 

Then there needs to be a tool to isolate/extract specific “alleles”/traits from that DNA Imprint by “splitting” them up to a different partial-imprint creating a specific "Trait"-Card.

 

With those “Trait”-Cards you then can go ahead and fill up a full DNA string - a template if you so want - of your choice and with that new Imprint you can go ahead and incubate a new egg which will fully adopt your custom DNA string. (No randomness involved, it’s enough work to collect all the traits anyways).

 

-----

Example for extraction:

 

You have a black Kubrow and you want to use only the black fur color on another Kubrow and don't want any of the other traits.

 

Then you scan your Kubrow and wait until you get a list populated with all the traits. After that you put that Imprint in the extraction-tool and select the trait that is responsible for the black fur color and it will be stored on a separate “Trait”-Card that only holds the black fur color.

 

Then there's the possibility that some traits are rather complex (made up of 2-4 trait cards) and the more complex it gets the longer it takes to extract all the corresponding "Trait"-cards or something. With really ridiculous long cooldown times for stuff like Lotus symbols or Colors made up by 4 traits and whatnot.

 

The amount of trait-cards extracted would eventually have to deterimine how often you can extract traits from "provider" Kubrows so to not overflood the market again.

-----

 

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Example for designing a new Kubrow:

 

Imagine you want to incubate a random new egg. Then you have a blank template with rows of specific traits. For example:

 

• Temperament (Race):
• Gender:
• Build:
• Height:
• Fur Pattern:
• Fur Color 1:
• Fur Color 2:
• ... (and so on)

 

and in each row you'd have 2-4 slots or something (depending on how complex a trait can be for example Gender doesn't need to be as complex as fur color, but there would always be a minimum of 2 cards required) where you can put in fitting trait cards by drag&drop from your genetic storage. And once you put in a trait card the possible "result" will be shown in a rough preview window... and as you enter more trait cards the "result"-preview gradually changes to adopt all the trait cards you picked.

 

The exact position of a trait card in a row could also determine some variants... which would be especially needed for fur-colors... to determine intermediate colors or something. So you can fiddle around and see what happens similar to the way when experimenting with Combined Elements at Mods.

 

Eventually once you've filled up all slots with at least some basic cards you'd have to hit the apply button and that consumes all the trait cards in the process and incubates the Kubrow. You may or may not fill up all traits with cards but then those traits are partially left open for RNG. Picking no cards at all means fully random incubating.

 

The time it takes to incubate the Kubrow would then depend on how complex the setup is you want to incubate/mutate. The more trait cards you throw into the blender the longer it takes to forge that DNA string and to incubate the egg. So you may have to wait 2 days for a randomly incubated egg... but if you'd throw in something complex into the mix like the Lotus symbol you've to wait a week or even longer.

-----

 

That way we would have much better control over what happens when breeding a new egg rather than gambling around and wasting dozens of Kubrows, resources, time and whatnot.

 

Those "Trait"-Cards could also be used to genetically mutate your existing Kubrows to replace a trait you don’t like. That way you wouldn’t have to breed 20 new Kubrows until you get one that suits you, rather than slowly getting your beloved existing one in the direction you want it.

 

Those "Trait"-Cards holding a speficic allele could be traded between players then and there would be no more scamming, because “black-fur-trait-card" is called “black-fur-trait-card” and there’s no debate about it and no pictures needed anymore to prove anything. Also this is the only way to make even unloved Kubrows something worth because you can always sell it's DNA parts if the whole thing isn't anything else good for.
 

 

 

What I also suggest in relation to that is some of the colors and other traits are made up by blending two different "Trait"-Cards of the same trait together.

 

For example:

 

• White Fur Allele + Black Fur Allele = Gray Fur Allele
• Yellow Fur Allele + Red Fur Allele = Orange Fur Allele
• Yellow Fur Allele + Blue Fur Allele = Green Fur Allele
• Yellow Fur Allele + Red Fur Allele + Black Fur Allele = Brown Fur Allele
   
• Skinny Allele + Stocky Allele = Normal Allele (Build)
• Small Allele + Tall Allele = Normal Allele (Height)

 

… and so on. More complex examples for complex patterns and colors is something that DE could play around with to balance out the system as well as to create intermediate results.

 

That way there aren’t as many basic trait-alleles around as some of them could easily be reproduced by putting two (or more) “trait”-cards together and some of the stuff could still be decided by dominant/recessive ways by making it dependent on in which order you place the traits into the blender (similar to the way how combined elements are chosen by the order you place the elementals into your weapons)

 

A little rough 3D visualized preview of what your Kubrow will most likely look like with the current changes/setup could help to assist the player in creation phase! - Thanks to Ryouhi

 

 

Another thing that could be experimented on with this way is to create hybrid classes of Kubrows that for example melt 2 of the ability precepts of 2 classes together in one. Like for example having a Hybrid between a Huras and a Raksa…  allowing it to cloak you and have the shield replenishing or something. This would obviously needed to be balanced though, but it would give it a nice touch for somebody looking into a class in between the 4 available.

 

 

Also those 2 Imprints per Kubrow limit should be removed... or changed to something like 2 scans every week/month or something. It only limits your ability to experiment around, because if you didn't get what you want you wasted Imprints and you can't get it back without buying or breeding new Kubrows which eventually leads to the problems we already have once again.

 

 

 

The limitations to prevent overflooding the market (thanks to 00zau):

 

There would be "provider"-Kubrows (no changes made to it a.k.a random incubated Kubrows) and "receiver"-Kubrows (has been completely designed or is an existing Kubrow that had it's traits changed/mutated).

 

Once you modified a specific trait/allele on an existing Kubrow or when creating a new DNA string for a new egg out of custom "Trait"-cards then the modified trait(s) become(s) so destabilzed/degraded that you can't extract from those modified/custom Kubrows anymore. This prevents the market from overflowing with rare "Trait"-cards to the point where the sellers would have to compete with their former buyers, as pointed out by 00zau in detail here:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/276436-feedback-kubrow-breeding-reviewed-suggestion-for-major-changes/#entry3194666

 

So eventually modifying your Kubrows is a one-way road... Once you modified a specific allele you can't extract/isolate that said alleles anymore, while the others (the ones not modified yet) remain unharmed. From that point on the modified Kubrows can only "receive" new alleles but can't provide them anymore - hence "Receiver"-Kubrow.

 

This encourages to breed new random Kubrows to get "fresh blood" into the breeding system - hence "Provider"-Kubrow.

 

 

 

Interesting Links:

 

MonsieurZero also created a thread independent from mine with a similar if not the same idea, you should definitely check it out:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/278420-kubrows-build-a-brow-workshop-genetic-template-revamp-general-feedback/

 

Also have a look at the other proposals and suggestions in the Kubrow Megathread by noveltyhero:
https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/278994-kubrow-feedback-megathread-with-poll/

 

 

 

There's no TL;DR because there are really serious flaws in the current system that should be resolved to create a real Genetic Forge that's useful rather than wasting resources with no guranteed outcome. I've marked the most key stuff with underlines anyways.

Edited August 5, 2014 by MeduSalem

[DarknightK]

A big yes to this, ill edit my post when im back on my laptop, the fact is that we need more control over our kubrow's appearance and genetics, it IS a genetic forge that we're hatching them in anyways.

 

EDIT: Alright, now that I'm back, its time to post my thoughts

 

Because we are essentially putting an egg into, a lack of better words, a genetic forge, we should have total control over the Kubrows appearance. You say you didn't want this to happen DE? You should've made us find a Kubrow puppy in the den, in that case.

 

Either way, here are the following traits that should be able to be modified by the genetic foundry:

 

1. Sex

2. Body Build

3. Patterns (Similar category as Warframe skins)

4. Fur Colors (and with Tints functioning as Pattern colors)

 

Here are traits that cannot be modified by the genetic foundry (Both of these will be explained later):

 

1. Behavior

2. Special Attributes

 

 

Now for the physical traits, these can ONLY be modified during the Kubrow's egg/puppy phase, while its still developing. By the time it reaches adulthood, its physical traits will be locked in. To acquire more colors and traits, players must trade Genetic Imprints and insert them into the Foundry (like a credit card machine, but it eats your card as well), OR they must breed more Kubrows, and pray that the new ones will have different traits. ANY new traits acquired will be saved in the Foundry.

 

 

As for the mental behaviors, these are properties of Kubrows that are unique to each one, similar to Pokemon, in that each Pokemon has a Nature and a Special Ability that usually assists them in combat/in use. The Behavioral aspect to Kubrows may be such that a Kubrow does not need to be petted to essentially regain its loyalty; it will gradually gain loyalty each time it kills an enemy. Behaviors can be seen in a Kubrow's idle animations inside the ship and during missions.

 

A Special Attribute, for example: Piercing Nails, would add a modifier to the Kubrow's attack that would add a % of Puncture damage based on its total damage output.

 

Other examples of Behaviors/Nature:

Calm: When a Kubrow enters an aggressive state, it will gain a damage bonus for 20 seconds.

 

Warhawk: The Kubrow will regain a small % of loyalty each time it kills an enemy

 

Regency: The Kubrow keeps itself well ordered, losing less genetic stability every 24 hours

 

Timid: When its master is down, the Kubrow will dig itself into the ground, with its butt and tail sticking out. It will be invulnerable from enemy aggression and damage.

 

 

Other examples of Special Attributes:

Incandescence:  In dark lighting, the Kubrow's coat will emit a soft glow that illuminates a rather wide area around it.

 

Piercing Nails: A percent of the Kubrow's total damage is added as bonus puncture damage.

 

Vampire: The Kubrow gains a unique finisher that will allow it to restore a small percent of its health.

 

Psychic Barrier: When charging towards an enemy, the Kubrow will project a kinetic barrier that has an 80% chance to deflect oncoming projectiles.

 

 

Of course, players can still have a chance to get these non-physical traits from a genetic imprint if they so wish. Upon inserting a Genetic Imprint into the Foundry, it will stay there in storage if you wish to use it in the future for breeding (the Imprint will tell you all of the above mentioned traits a Kubrow can have, and the dominant/recessive alleles).

 

Just as the masterful OP mentioned, I'll reiterate some of his points, Making an imprint of a Kubrow with modified traits will only copy its base, aka unedited traits. When a genetic imprint is scanned/stored in the Foundry, the physical traits that are unlocked are ONLY the ones that show on the Kubrow.

 

Personally I think OP's method of working around the physical traits are more orderly and better (and you don't have to work as quickly to modify their traits), my idea is just another version that I've been working on, feel free to use any ideas OP.

 

 

EDIT 2: Although I'm still intrigued by the allele extraction method, that would look like it would work a bit more accurately than my scanning-the-entire-imprint suggestion.

Edited July 29, 2014 by DarknightK

[The3doM]

- insert gif here - "THIS"

[MeduSalem]

A big yes to this, ill edit my post when im back on my laptop, the fact is that we need more control over our kubrow's appearance and genetics, it IS a genetic forge that we're hatching then in anyways.

 

That's exactly what I've been thinking about it.

 

It would also allow for other pet types later on as well because some of the fur colors/patterns alleles/traits could be basically re-used there as Imprint material. I know that might not be that realistic, but for the sake of "simplicity" it could work. At all we are no scientists and it should still be fun to do.

Edited July 28, 2014 by MeduSalem

[Rorkyr]

That's exactly what I've been thinking about it.

 

It would also allow for other pet types later on as well because some of the fur colors/patterns alleles/traits could be basically re-used there as Imprint material. I know that might not be that realistic, but for the sake of "simplicity" it could work. At all we are no scientists and it should still be fun to do.

+1, I totally agree. The randomness is too high with this fur balls :3

Edited July 28, 2014 by Rorkyr

[MeduSalem]

+1, I totally agree. The randomness is too high with this fur balls :3

 

Yepp, basically it's the combination of randomness on top of getting only partially matching Imprints for Platinum. There's like no realistic way to breed all the stuff yourself. You have to rely on the good will of other people in the trade channel, which will eventually stop when people are tired of making more Kubrows.

[BrideOfFire]

+1. I agree with everything that has been said.
Now i hope DE will get the problem with actual system, and try to change it soon so we can enjoy Kubrows even more :)

Edited July 29, 2014 by BrideOfFire

[theangelbelow88]

I agree with everything 100%, right now the currant breeding system is too much of a time/resource sink, that requires a lot of luck to get what a player would call their "ideal' kubrow, there was lot of hype about the whole breeding, and how over time you could get what you wanted but at the end of the day its mostly still just RNG, I really hope DE is taking notes on what players are suggesting and hope that in the coming weeks we get some improvements on the currant system.
 

One thing is fire sure aside from the body type, my first kubrow came out almost ideal, but I did try the breeding system again with imprints that I bought off of other players, but it didn't really seem to make much of a difference, lucky for me the whole thing cost like 40p, not much but I seen people selling and buy prints for 200p and to spend that much platinum and not even get close to what you wanted, really just feels wrong... For me I will stick my first kubrow for now and just wait till I see some changes before I test the waters again and I'm pretty sure a lot of other players are starting to feel this way by now.

[LukeAura]

+1 For Brilliance

Anything that let's us keep one Kubrow and perfect him/her instead of keeping a steakhouse afloat with frozen Kubrow meat every time we'd like one with a different pattern. 
The amount of randomness and Kubrow wasting in the current system is far too high.

Edited July 29, 2014 by LukeAura

[MeduSalem]

One thing is fire sure aside from the body type, my first kubrow came out almost ideal, but I did try the breeding system again with imprints that I bought off of other players, but it didn't really seem to make much of a difference, lucky for me the whole thing cost like 40p, not much but I seen people selling and buy prints for 200p and to spend that much platinum and not even get close to what you wanted, really just feels wrong... For me I will stick my first kubrow for now and just wait till I see some changes before I test the waters again and I'm pretty sure a lot of other players are starting to feel this way by now.

 

Yepp the trade scamming is strong with this one... Asking 200p for a new rare prime part is one thing... but asking 200p for an Imprint that you've literally no prove of, some people have no real clue what they have, professional scammers that fake screenshots and on top of all that only have a chance of being "applied" at all when incubating is just a "NO-NO."

Edited July 29, 2014 by MeduSalem

[SmashEmDown]

F*** all this. Just gimme 100% customization and return the game to its former glory. I don't mind farming for eggs, I don't mind waiting for incubator core to craft, I don't mind waiting for eggs to hatch, I don't mind buying slots as long as I can get rid of unwanted kubrows immediately. Stop using cute virtual puppies to make your company rain with plats. It won't happen.

[Rorkyr]

F*** all this. Just gimme 100% customization and return the game to its former glory. I don't mind farming for eggs, I don't mind waiting for incubator core to craft, I don't mind waiting for eggs to hatch, I don't mind buying slots as long as I can get rid of unwanted kubrows immediately. Stop using cute virtual puppies to make your company rain with plats. It won't happen.

Yeeeeah !!! Kubrow system revolution :D !

[Mak_Gohae]

Not that i want to use an example used by a DE person but....

These things are supposed to be this

 

If we could select what we wanted people would just gravitate to the specific rare patterns and ignore all others basically leaving a whole mess of unused resources. Right now you can see this as everyone seems to want the Lotus pattern.

The Job of the Kub is now guaranteed if you use two of the same, i havent tested for body shape and height enough, i have a current one i am trying for skinny and small, and that could probably have some sort mechanic to try to push you cooking towards but the color and patterns should be a random. Something should be left random or else the system collapses and people will just go a straight line. Basically, you might as well just have at the market the exact thing you are looking for.

[MeduSalem]

If we could select what we wanted people would just gravitate to the specific rare patterns and ignore all others basically leaving a whole mess of unused resources. Right now you can see this as everyone seems to want the Lotus pattern.

The Job of the Kub is now guaranteed if you use two of the same, i havent tested for body shape and height enough, i have a current one i am trying for skinny and small, and that could probably have some sort mechanic to try to push you cooking towards but the color and patterns should be a random. Something should be left random or else the system collapses and people will just go a straight line. Basically, you might as well just have at the market the exact thing you are looking for.

 

Not everyone wants a Lotus flower on the face of his/her Kubrow... I'd prefer stripes instead... and others prefer patches/no pattern at all. Some want white, some want black, some want yellow, some want skinny, some want stocky, some want whatever. Everyone has his/her own preference.

 

But the current system makes only a minority happy because they either have the luck or the Plat and don't care about how much they have to waste on Imprints until they get what they want and nor do they care about the mess during creation process as they will toss their excess Kubrows right out the airlock the second DE enables the feature (which in some way is already against all the "bonding"-crap-hype they made throughout the design phase the past weeks/months), but most people will become weary of this sink pretty soon and will only rank their ugly bastard Kubrows to 30 and then forget about that they ever existed, because they can't change them to a better anyways.

 

The system will collapse anyways with 20 Kubrows stored in the fridge because nobody wants them and they get screwed over by the current Imprinting system or when incubating a random egg.

 

There are so many people already demanding a way to get rid of all the excess Kubrows so that you can assume the system already collapsed for many people, including myself. I for example won't be breeding any more Kubrows until there's a better way to customize them without heavily depending on buying overprized imprints where selling people might not really know what they have or are lying on purpose, both of which mess up the incubated Kubrow.

 

The system I proposed makes use of all the genetic resources a scanned Kubrow could provide because some of the colors/patterns and/or builds/heights could only achieved by blending two (or more) basic materials together, which creates a market even for the common colors/patterns as they have to be used throughout the process to make an even rarer color/pattern.

 

That system would at least over time make more people happy as they could design a Kubrow they like or change existing ones rather than tossing countless of them into the fridge or let them die on purpose. I never said it should be able to be done in like 5 minutes... okay with Platinum rush probably... but there could be massive cooldowns involved when mutating your existing Kubrows or when blending the source materials together to form a new DNA imprint for a new egg.

Edited July 29, 2014 by MeduSalem

[Rorkyr]

Yeah, and the possibility of selling the Kubrows would be VERY VERY VERY appreciated. It's a sentinel so, why not ? :3

[00zau]

I'd suggest a slight tweak in not allowing GMO kubrows to have their alleles extracted; you can't buy black fur, breed a black kubrow, then start selling black alleles (or at the very least, you can't extract the alleles you modded; if you just made it black, you can still extract the build and size, for example). This means there is still some value in breeding random kubrows, and it makes it so that supplyers don't have to compete with their former customers (which encourages simply not selling) and helps keep rare genes rare (if every buyer becomes a breeder then everything becomes very common very quickly). It even has a pretty good ingame justification; repeated cloning will worsen genetic degradation (see: grineer).

Edited July 29, 2014 by 00zau

[MeduSalem]

I'd suggest a slight tweak in not allowing GMO kubrows to have their alleles extracted; you can't buy black fur, breed a black kubrow, then start selling black alleles (or at the very least, you can't extract the alleles you modded; if you just made it black, you can still extract the build and size, for example). This means there is still some value in breeding random kubrows, and it makes it so that supplyers don't have to compete with their former customers (which encourages simply not selling) and helps keep rare genes rare (if every buyer becomes a breeder then everything becomes very common very quickly). It even has a pretty good ingame justification; repeated cloning will worsen genetic degradation (see: grineer).

 

Good point/idea - if not the most important one - ... modifying existing Kubrows or throwing them into a custom DNA for a new egg destabilzes the specific alleles you modified so far that it can't be used for another extraction to prevent overflooding the market. The only thing you can do then is replicate your whole Kubrow for someone who wants an exact clone f.e. for friends, but you can't extract any parts from it anymore.

 

I'll update OP with this.

Edited July 29, 2014 by MeduSalem

[Varzy]

I like the idea of breeding kubrow in order to collect the Genetic Imprints we want from them, for sure. +1

[Ryouhi]

Great read.

You pretty much pointed out all the problems the Breedings system has at the moment and i REALLY would love for your System 2.0 to be used in the future.

I understand Warframe is generally a grindy game, but like you said, you should be able to bond with your pet, and not just put it into the freezer because it isn't what you wanted.

The current system fails miserably to do so.

 

I agree with everything you said, only thing i would like to have added to your system would be a little 3D Visualization when splicing a new Allele into your Egg/Kubrow, to show how exactly your Doggy will look when you use it on him.

So there's no ugly surprises, you will know exactly what you get if you go out of your way to actually get the Traits you want.

 

Until the current system is changed  i won't try to breed any more Kubrows ( i only bred 3 so far ), because it's simply too much RNG and i don't wanna waste plat or time on trying to get anything worthwhile out of this broken system.

Till then i have my little Raiden, my first Kubrow that i bred, and which i actually like.

Big Black Raksa, with greyish Spots.

[Rorkyr]

Great read.

You pretty much pointed out all the problems the Breedings system has at the moment and i REALLY would love for your System 2.0 to be used in the future.

I understand Warframe is generally a grindy game, but like you said, you should be able to bond with your pet, and not just put it into the freezer because it isn't what you wanted.

The current system fails miserably to do so.

 

I agree with everything you said, only thing i would like to have added to your system would be a little 3D Visualization when splicing a new Allele into your Egg/Kubrow, to show how exactly your Doggy will look when you use it on him.

So there's no ugly surprises, you will know exactly what you get if you go out of your way to actually get the Traits you want.

 

Until the current system is changed  i won't try to breed any more Kubrows ( i only bred 3 so far ), because it's simply too much RNG and i don't wanna waste plat or time on trying to get anything worthwhile out of this broken system.

Till then i have my little Raiden, my first Kubrow that i bred, and which i actually like.

Big Black Raksa, with greyish Spots.

This is exactly what I do :3 A genetical foundry boycott !

[Mak_Gohae]

Not everyone wants a Lotus flower on the face of his/her Kubrow... I'd prefer stripes instead... and others prefer patches/no pattern at all. Some want white, some want black, some want yellow, some want skinny, some want stocky, some want whatever. Everyone has his/her own preference.

 

But the current system makes only a minority happy because they either have the luck or the Plat and don't care about how much they have to waste on Imprints until they get what they want and nor do they care about the mess during creation process as they will toss their excess Kubrows right out the airlock the second DE enables the feature (which in some way is already against all the "bonding"-crap-hype they made throughout the design phase the past weeks/months), but most people will become weary of this sink pretty soon and will only rank their ugly bastard Kubrows to 30 and then forget about that they ever existed, because they can't change them to a better anyways.

 

The system will collapse anyways with 20 Kubrows stored in the fridge because nobody wants them and they get screwed over by the current Imprinting system or when incubating a random egg.

 

There are so many people already demanding a way to get rid of all the excess Kubrows so that you can assume the system already collapsed for many people, including myself. I for example won't be breeding any more Kubrows until there's a better way to customize them without heavily depending on buying overprized imprints where selling people might not really know what they have or are lying on purpose, both of which mess up the incubated Kubrow.

 

The system I proposed makes use of all the genetic resources a scanned Kubrow could provide because some of the colors/patterns and/or builds/heights could only achieved by blending two (or more) basic materials together, which creates a market even for the common colors/patterns as they have to be used throughout the process to make an even rarer color/pattern.

 

That system would at least over time make more people happy as they could design a Kubrow they like or change existing ones rather than tossing countless of them into the fridge or let them die on purpose. I never said it should be able to be done in like 5 minutes... okay with Platinum rush probably... but there could be massive cooldowns involved when mutating your existing Kubrows or when blending the source materials together to form a new DNA imprint for a new egg.

 

I just mentioned the most popular pattern, that doesnt mean there arent other things that are popular. Tiger stripes are just below the Lotus pattern. Btw, not having the ability to get rid of the kubs is a different dicussion. And, yes, we need an option to do that.

 

[DarknightK]

You can actually get rid of the Kubrows, just disregard feeding them until their Genetic Stability reaches zero.

 

Although I suppose having a "Free/Release Kubrow" option would be more effective (and humane).

[Ryouhi]

You can actually get rid of the Kubrows, just disregard feeding them until their Genetic Stability reaches zero.

 

Although I suppose having a "Free/Release Kubrow" option would be more effective (and humane).

 

Yes, that's the only way to do it atm.

Not really convenient though.

Takes like 10 Days right?

During which time you will have to switch around your kubrows every day in combination with the 3 hour wait to use your favorite kubrow

[MeduSalem]

Great read.

You pretty much pointed out all the problems the Breedings system has at the moment and i REALLY would love for your System 2.0 to be used in the future.

I understand Warframe is generally a grindy game, but like you said, you should be able to bond with your pet, and not just put it into the freezer because it isn't what you wanted.

The current system fails miserably to do so.

 

I agree with everything you said, only thing i would like to have added to your system would be a little 3D Visualization when splicing a new Allele into your Egg/Kubrow, to show how exactly your Doggy will look when you use it on him.

So there's no ugly surprises, you will know exactly what you get if you go out of your way to actually get the Traits you want.

 

Until the current system is changed  i won't try to breed any more Kubrows ( i only bred 3 so far ), because it's simply too much RNG and i don't wanna waste plat or time on trying to get anything worthwhile out of this broken system.

Till then i have my little Raiden, my first Kubrow that i bred, and which i actually like.

Big Black Raksa, with greyish Spots.

 

Thanks for your support... :D

 

I'll add the suggestion of the a "rough" visual 3D visualization/mock-up to OP to give you an idea how the Kubrow most likely will look like.

 

It should only be "rough", because the exact position of stuff like patches and amount of stripes, thickness of stripes or so on could still vary a little bit to create a more unique Kubrow depending on if something like fur patterns are procedurally generated or if all the Kubrows basically use the same few "basic models".

 

I just mentioned the most popular pattern, that doesnt mean there arent other things that are popular. Tiger stripes are just below the Lotus pattern.

 

You may be right about the stripes being second to the Lotus pattern, but that is also because we only have 4 basic patterns to choose from currently. If there would be more variety then people would be more differing/disperse from each other, creating a market for nearly everything.

 

Still I think not everyone favors all the rare stuff. If people would be all like that we would only see people running around with rare event weapons like Snipetrons Vandals, specific Arcane Helmets and Proto-Armor and whatnot. But this is not the case because people all have their unique preferences which will on longterm override any "rarity" most of the time just because people dislike playing with an item that they feel doesn't look nice to them. Yes, there might be people who don't care about looks and rather take stuff because they do nice DPS... but breeding Kubrows isn't something for them anyways.

 

Also another problem concerning the patterns and other traits is that once DE starts expanding on the possible features Kubrows can develop it will be increasingly harder to get better results out of the box for your Kubrows because people will eventually have to breed new Kubrows to make those new features appear which will randomly have all existing features thrown into the mix thanks to RNG. Isolating some traits you like will be nearly impossible the more feature factors play into the current breeding system.

 

It's becoming gambling on Diablo III level, which I can only see with disgust because I played that one long enough to know that it is a waste of time to even try getting items you want because you'll NEVER get them or at least not those variants you'd like to see.

 

A way to isolate traits you like will be more and more important the more possible traits there are because otherwise you will find it extremely difficult if not impossible to crossbreed until you get the result you want. Eventually you would have to waste even more Plat on Imprints to gamble around... with the amount of Plat increasing exponentially thanks to the possible combinations that could occour. I can only imagine how ugly clustered that system will become and how rare "good" outcomes would become.

 

Btw, not having the ability to get rid of the kubs is a different dicussion. And, yes, we need an option to do that.

 

You can actually get rid of the Kubrows, just disregard feeding them until their Genetic Stability reaches zero.

 

Although I suppose having a "Free/Release Kubrow" option would be more effective (and humane).

 

Yes, that's the only way to do it atm.

Not really convenient though.

Takes like 10 Days right?

During which time you will have to switch around your kubrows every day in combination with the 3 hour wait to use your favorite kubrow

 

Getting rid of the Kubrows is one of the major problems currently, yes, but eventually the feedback of this thread is thought to address the problem of creating too many excess Kubrows in the first place.

 

If we could mutate our existing Kubrows, create custom ones in a genetic forge using "trait"-parts, or at least use "randomly" incubated Kubrows as a way to use their genetic material for improving other Kubrows and/or trading those "trait"-parts the random Kubrows provide in a manner of "adding fresh blood to the breeding system" and therefore create a market for even the most unwanted Kubrows then creating those excess Kubrows would at least make sense.

 

If people could change existing Kubrows or use their excess Kubrows for something useful people wouldn't have to make 10 times the Kubrows they actually need and therefore decrease the need of having a way to "release" all the Kubrows you don't like to the wild in the first place.

 

I don't say there should not be a way to release your Kubrow... I want to have that feature as well, but the general problem is that the current system encourages nobody to keep their ugly Kubrows but there's no way around having too many of them other than wasting insane amount of Platinum on imprints which only give you a chance of their traits being carried over, as well as having to deal with trade scamming and looking for somebody that may have had enough luck to get exactly the Kubrow you want.

Edited July 30, 2014 by MeduSalem

[Rorkyr]

Thanks for your support... :D

 

I'll add the suggestion of the a "rough" visual 3D visualization/mock-up to OP to give you an idea how the Kubrow most likely will look like.

 

It should only be "rough", because the exact position of stuff like patches and amount of stripes, thickness of stripes or so on could still vary a little bit to create a more unique Kubrow depending on if something like fur patterns are procedurally generated or if all the Kubrows basically use the same few "basic models".

 

 

You may be right about the stripes being second to the Lotus pattern, but that is also because we only have 4 basic patterns to choose from currently. If there would be more variety then people would be more differing/disperse from each other, creating a market for nearly everything.

 

Still I think not everyone favors all the rare stuff. If people would be all like that we would only see people running around with rare event weapons like Snipetrons Vandals, specific Arcane Helmets and Proto-Armor and whatnot. But this is not the case because people all have their unique preferences which will on longterm override any "rarity" most of the time just because people dislike playing with an item that they feel doesn't look nice to them. Yes, there might be people who don't care about looks and rather take stuff because they do nice DPS... but breeding Kubrows isn't something for them anyways.

 

Also another problem concerning the patterns and other traits is that once DE starts expanding on the possible features Kubrows can develop it will be increasingly harder to get better results out of the box for your Kubrows because people will eventually have to breed new Kubrows to make those new features appear which will randomly have all existing features thrown into the mix thanks to RNG. Isolating some traits you like will be nearly impossible the more feature factors play into the current breeding system.

 

It's becoming gambling on Diablo III level, which I can only see with disgust because I played that one long enough to know that it is a waste of time to even try getting items you want because you'll NEVER get them or at least not those variants you'd like to see.

 

A way to isolate traits you like will be more and more important the more possible traits there are because otherwise you will find it extremely difficult if not impossible to crossbreed until you get the result you want. Eventually you would have to waste even more Plat on Imprints to gamble around... with the amount of Plat increasing exponentially thanks to the possible combinations that could occour. I can only imagine how ugly clustered that system will become and how rare "good" outcomes would become.

 

 

 

 

Getting rid of the Kubrows is one of the major problems currently, yes, but eventually the feedback of this thread is thought to address the problem of creating too many excess Kubrows in the first place.

 

If we could mutate our existing Kubrows, create custom ones in a genetic forge using "trait"-parts, or at least use "randomly" incubated Kubrows as a way to use their genetic material for improving other Kubrows and/or trading those "trait"-parts the random Kubrows provide in a manner of "adding fresh blood to the breeding system" and therefore create a market for even the most unwanted Kubrows then creating those excess Kubrows would at least make sense.

 

If people could change existing Kubrows or use their excess Kubrows for something useful people wouldn't have to make 10 times the Kubrows they actually need and therefore decrease the need of having a way to "release" all the Kubrows you don't like to the wild in the first place.

 

I don't say there should not be a way to release your Kubrow... I want to have that feature as well, but the general problem is that the current system encourages nobody to keep their ugly Kubrows but there's no way around having too many of them other than wasting insane amount of Platinum on imprints which only give you a chance of their traits being carried over, as well as having to deal with trade scamming and looking for somebody that may have had enough luck to get exactly the Kubrow you want.

Yeeaaahh ! :D