The Darker Side Of Warframe: Follow Up

[NearlyDedicated]

See the original post here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/276658-a-darker-side-to-warframe/#entry3187872

 

This is not a DE-pounding thread. Reasoning is well provided for the proposed changes/reversions, with criticism being giving in a constructive manner.

 

Whilst browsing YouTube, I found the "Warframe Open Beta Launch Trailer". After watching, I was reminded of a time when Warframe seemed more mysterious...and elusive. When the Grineer were frightening marines, countless and terrifying. Not to mention there was a wild merchant cult called the Corpus, wishing to tear us apart nanospore by nanospore to sell off our parts to the highest bidder; and the kicker was, both factions were being ravaged by a plague called the Technocyte virus.

 

In my case for a reversion to the older style, I will bring out three major points:

 

a) The role of the Tenno in the solar system.

b) The role of the other factions in the solar system.

c) The art styles surrounding the factions, and game as a whole.

 

I. - The Tenno

From the Alpha Trailer : "The Warframes: ancient weapons from the old Earth. Only the Tenno can wield their power. But the Tenno are on the brink of extinction...the Grineer hunt for those Tenno that remain...they hunt for you." 

 

Source: (

)

 

The Tenno are a dying race. Back when I began playing around Easter 2013, the game felt like I was on the brink of extinction. We were silent warriors using fossilized-looking weapons from an ancient past. I don't know why, but the word "ancient" sticks in my head. Now my question for the readers (and DE) is: does Valkyr feel ancient? What about Nova? Mirage? No.

 

Compare the mentioned frames to older ones, such as Banshee and Rhino. They looked like they fit the description of ancient. Even the weapons reflect this. Consider the Bolto and the AkZani. Both are secondary weapons crafted by Tenno - yet look at the difference in their styles. Doesn't the AkZani seem more...Corpus in design? The Tenno used to have their own unique ancient flare, which stemmed from the wooden-esque, clacking guns which they used, which differed from the sleek design of Corpus rifles and the gratata of Grineer Grakatas.

 

Summary: The Tenno need to revert to their own style, rather than giving a similar look to the Corpus.

 

II. - The Grineer, Corpus, and Infested

Your ship roars towards the Grineer cruiser just ahead, and allows you to enter through one of the exposed vents. You thrust your leg into the grate, and enter the mighty beast with a clank of metal-on-metal. This is how almost every mission begins. For such a dramatic entrance, what Warframe now fails to deliver is the sense of being on the brink of extinction. 

 

When I first began playing around update 7, every ship I entered felt like a death trap. They were filled with either Grineer marines, whose eyes glowed from the shadows; Corpus crewmen, whose mysterious nature and fascination with robotics provided endless armies; or the infested: mindless, animalistic mutants who showed intelligence as a whole. All of the above were terrifying. I found myself clinging to the shadows, for if a spotlight shined on me, I was sure to die!

 

Now there is no fear. Even with a base Warframe, newly crafted and unmodded, the factions all feel dull, boring, and too similar. With the recent release of the infested tileset and rework, they have taken a step in the right direction, but they're not there yet.

 

Case #2: The factions need to become scarier, and embrace their own unique roles through gameplay, rather than backstory.

 

III. - Art Styles

This is the big one. The rework of the infested tileset astounded me. I won't lie; I was impressed. But then came U14. What in the HEK is Mirage? Are you kidding? Compare Banshee to Mirage. Banshee uses the power of sound, able to create sonic booms and silence weapons/enemies at will. That is truly frightening. Imagine what the average Grineer marine must think of such power!

 

Mirage. I guess she uses light? Confusion? That must be it. Because I'm hella confused at her abilities. We've got: a decoy repaint, with a damage buff; jack in a box; and here's the big one, the ace in the hole, the ultimate ability: A DISCO BALL THAT SHOOTS LASERS? Are you fraking kidding me? If I were a Grineer marine, I'd die. Because I'd be laughing in the middle of a firefight. Now I know why the Grineer want to kill all of us.

 

Case #3: Warframe has become too cartoonish. The game is rated M, and fails to deliver the gritty style it used to. 

 

Now, Case #3 can be solved. Kinda. I tweaked with the contrast settings, and was able to at least give the game some of the shadowy nature it used to have. Comparison:

 

Default contrast:

 

Tweaked contrast (resembles the older Warframe):

 

I can't be the only one who sees the difference. If you don't believe Warframe used to have a darker style, refer to the old Warframe Open Beta Launch Trailer (

). The game was darker. Not dark as in dungeons and candlelight; dark as in shadowy and...quieter. it was ultimately the quiet that made the atmosphere.

 

Case #4: Warframe needs to revert to a darker, quieter style with less explosions and flashy lights. Without it, the game will feel less like the age-of-extinction style it was truly meant to be. Even Steve has stated he wants the game to appear darker.

 

 

IV. - tl;dr

Go back and read, you lazy schmuck.

 

I can't be alone with this opinion. Thoughts? I'd really like to hear some feedback from the DE sound team, art team, etc., as well as the community, who seems to be very divided about this topic by a very fine line.

Edited July 29, 2014 by NearlyDedicated

[vaugahn]

Well, that lore is all still true. Besides that, this game was never particularly dark, even back then. This seems like a little bit of a "rose tinted goggles" situation.

 

That said, a darker and more atmospheric direction would be much welcomed. It would blend very well with our current setting and story.

[Pandoran_Stallion]

I like this. I want that darker feel again. I don't support the old tenno feel, since we've been around for a while now. We looked like sophisticated infested. We're more than that, thus we changed. The weapons still look rustic, traditional, compared to grineer weapons. In my heart, I like the U10 look. Not too dark, but dark enough that you feel intimidated. Your weapons still look ancient, but you can feel their power. I liked that feel. Sybaris has that, and that's one reason I enjoy it so much.

One easy solution is just to make the metals in newer looking Tenno weapons darker. It's just a small tint but it makes a world of difference. I hope eventually, they'll go back and fix the really old stiff and the really new stuff, find the style they liked and redo everything.

The game could use darker menus like post-U10. These light menus are too... Well, they're almost happy. Races on the brink of extinction are not happy. They are saddened, scarred, angry, vengeful, or indifferent, but not happy. If they darkened the surfaces on the List as well, that would create a difference. Add some wood and I'm a happy Tenno (design-wise).

At the very least, they have a pure Tenno 'zen' aesthetic, which I can support. Mirage could look better. I like valkyr. She looks like she could be older, but was torn apart by the Corpus. She looks like she should. Mysterious, broken, and scarred.

As for factions, these factions are still mysterious and scary. They fail to intimidate, however, because I can mow them down with a REVOLVER. These guys need the difficulty scaling that they had in the Hive event. That was hard. That was scary. It gave me chills up my spine to hear an Ancient scream.

The dioramas and lore also helped. It was awesome to see swarms of Infested mobbing tenno operatives, with dark drums in the background. I was scared to set foot on infested nodes for weeks after I started. The grineer looked intimidating, with them charging out and slaughtering innocents and tenno alike. And the corpus, with their vast armies of robots being maintained by crewmen, looked like they were ready for war.

Those were the little things that actually got me so far into this game, and I'm sad they're gone.

In terms of design, I'd like more of those mysterious designs. Less jagged surfaces. Make them look pure, like the older warframes. Something out of the Old War.

There is one thing I want for our future, though: Sentients. If and when they return to the system, I suspect that the tenno may once again feel that we are at the brink of extinction.

Edited July 29, 2014 by UpgradeInProgress

[NearlyDedicated]

In terms of design, I'd like more of those mysterious designs. Less jagged surfaces. Make them look pure, like the older warframes. Something out if the Old War.

There is one thing I want for our future, though: Sentients. If and when they return to the system, I suspect that the tenno may once again feel that we are at the brink of extinction.

This gave me goosebumps, especially the second part. We need people at DE to read this!

[Shion963]

Game changes, and we change with it. For the most part, we got better and just stopped being afraid. We discarded the ancient remnants, started researching and creating new gear.

Better or for worse- the Tenno are on the rise, now.

I'd love it if the Grineer threat was as pervasive as before, but the "kill-em-all" gametypes kinda changes them into mass-produced mooks. How can you fear a lone Grineer in a dark corridor, if you've slaughtered them by the thousands before?

I'll wait and see how they handle it.

As for factions, these factions are still mysterious and scary. They fail to intimidate, however, because I can now them down with a REVOLVER. These guys need the difficulty scaling that they had in the Hive event. That was hard. That was scary. It gave me chills up my spine to hear an Ancient scream.

The dioramas and lore also helped. It was awesome to see swarms of Infested mobbing tenno operatives, with dark drums in the background. I was scared to set foot on infested nodes for weeks after I started.

I agree with these. Heavies used to be SCARY. Now they spawn 3-per-pack, and are just slight speedbumps.

And the drums, I'm sad to see that they listened to the "taiko drums are boring" crowd. We need MORE taiko pieces.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Shion963

[Hueminator]

Grineer and Corpus need stealth and jump on you I guess.

 

 

Other than that I guess we need title set that have more dead stuff and spooky music

Edited July 29, 2014 by Hueminator

[-Refractor-]

I remember the time when rushing was still a new idea, when coptering was still being experimented with, back when we had the random mods and skill trees, the enemies quickly became too heavily armored for your weapons when defense came out, and at any moment uber stalker could appear and obliterate you in a matter of seconds unless you were Rhino, now the thing about this is that with the advancement of the game also comes a change in what the majority of players find as something they want to be immersed in, granted I am one who greatly prefers the stealth gametype there are a lot more who want to play different ways rather than procedurally kill everything without being spotted once.

 

The only way I can think of to truly fix this problem has already been partially implemented in nightmare mode, the idea that people who want something different, can get it as a choice, so maybe someday in the future they will have a stealth mode for all missions that it is reasonable on that if the alarm is sounded you are overrun by masses of heavies with hard CCs or just ludacris damage because they know what a single Tenno can do, and thus will exterminate them will all available force on sight. Now there may be other solutions but generally it will probably just become more and more segmented with options for what to do, my only problem with this is long term it will put people in a position where they only exist in their sphere of gameplay, and eventually the community could end up splitting into segments like that.

[NearlyDedicated]

-snip-

Perhaps your idea for stealth mode would gain some traction, as well as provide atmosphere.

[vaugahn]

Perhaps your idea for stealth mode would gain some traction, as well as provide atmosphere.

 

We need to create an atmosphere with better lore and settings. Enemies will naturally become less threatening the more you see them, so relying on gameplay to create a grim atmosphere isn't really ideal.

[-Refractor-]

We need to create an atmosphere with better lore and settings. Enemies will naturally become less threatening the more you see them, so relying on gameplay to create a grim atmosphere isn't really ideal.

They become less threatening only if they are standard and do the same thing every time, if they are dynamic enough and deadly enough(high hopes for the Manic Grineer) then they will still be rather threatening. And if you are at a constant threat of dying from any major mistakes then the game will be rather eery to play through, and you will want to be careful

[vaugahn]

They become less threatening only if they are standard and do the same thing every time, if they are dynamic enough and deadly enough(high hopes for the Manic Grineer) then they will still be rather threatening. And if you are at a constant threat of dying from any major mistakes then the game will be rather eery to play through, and you will want to be careful

 

Well I mean even in dedicated horror games enemies become boring after a while. The first playthrough of dead space the necromorphs are horrifying, but the second round through you can gun them down left and right. The only reason it stays atmospheric is because of the set design and stuff like that. Our tiles aren't atmospheric at all right now.

[unknow99]

I think that you all miss this feeling because tilesets are just brighter now, and we hardly ever use our flashlights...That's all. :p

 

Proof :

 

 

But yeah, having it back (not only during invasion or after a successful sabotage) is a big +.

 

Playing in that atmosphere as a newb was a little frightening....

 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/245380-infested-lighting/

 

Please D.E. : bring it back,and make us able to switch our "maglite" on/off.(default : on)

[vaugahn]

You still get that on infestation outbreaks. Combine an outbreak level with a lucky color correction setting and it'll look identical to that. You can even get it on regular levels just by turning all your graphics up. The only real change we've had in graphics is the recent color update, and that only affected like 4 textures.

[Nira]

We need to create an atmosphere with better lore and settings. Enemies will naturally become less threatening the more you see them, so relying on gameplay to create a grim atmosphere isn't really ideal.

 

More intimidating through lore instantly makes me think of the Grustrag Three. Probably my most unnerving Warframe experience was coming up against these guys for the first time, and I'm still on the edge of my seat each time that swirling gold energy appears. Having said that enemies do, as you say, become less intimidating the more you play them; if we were facing G3-like foes on a daily basis in-game I doubt they'd have the same impact.

 

It's a tough balance to get.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Dualice

[vaugahn]

More intimidating through lore instantly makes me think of the Grustrag Three. Probably my most unnerving Warframe experience was coming up against these guys for the first time, and I'm still on the edge of my seat each time that swirling gold energy appears. Having said that enemies do, as you say, become less intimidating the more you play them; if we were facing G3-like foes on a daily basis in-game I doubt they'd have the same impact.

 

It's a tough balance to get.

 

The Grustrag 3 are a perfect example. What makes them unnerving isn't the actual encounter or the way they look, it's the events leading up to and the dialogue during the encounter. Their lines while they fight and when one of them gets downed are straight-up unsettling, and they way the lotus pleads with you to escape as she's cut off is the freakiest part.

 

They could make the void more "hellspace"-ish

 

They could make the grineer more body horror bloodthirsty degenerate-ish

 

They could make the corpus more backstabby and cold-blooded

 

They could make the infested more of an unstoppable swarm of mutated bodies

 

There are a lot of things they could do to improve atmosphere. 

[Sswordplay]

I think that you all miss this feeling because tilesets are just brighter now, and we hardly ever use our flashlights...That's all. :p

 

Proof :

 

 

But yeah, having it back (not only during invasion or after a successful sabotage) is a big +.

 

Playing in that atmosphere as a newb was a little frightening....

 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/245380-infested-lighting/

 

Please D.E. : bring it back,and make us able to switch our "maglite" on/off.(default : on)

God. I had forgotten that tile lighting used to get that dark for infested. I really miss that. I've noticed recently that part of the game's current RNG level design picks random light gradient and shading. It wouldn't be too difficult to make it pick darker colors. Perhaps the more difficult the enemies, the darker the level? It would lend a feeling of visual menace.

Also, I had completely forgotten about the fact that I had a flashlight (Been playing since update 7). I haven't needed to use it in that long.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Sswordplay

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Mirage is supposed to be a Jester/Harlequin.  People laughing is kind of the point.

[LordMelvin]

I feel like Warframe was also slower in past updates. Recently the pace of the game has increased a fair amount, which is a direct result of players maxing more and more mods. Once you have Serration past a certain point, nothing is really difficult to kill. Same thing goes for Redirection. 

 

Last night a friend and I were running Kiste to level some old weapons. He was running his mid-ranked Vauban and I was messing around with some of my lesser used frames (Loki, Ember, Saryn, my own Vauban to name a few). Out of maybe 20 or so runs, we failed nearly half of them and I had the most fun I'd had since T4 keys.

 

The other more stylistic change is the music.

 

The old Warframe music was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O34UUZkiISc 

 

The newer stuff is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTCSL4mV4EU 

 

HUGE tone changes. Dropping into the old music felt creepy, isolated, and dark. You felt like you were a hunter stalking prey, cloaked in shadows and fear. Even now it makes me giddy to listen to. The newer music is more sci-fi techno stuff that sounds cool, but doesn't convey that same calm-before-the-storm that the older stuff did.

 

Honestly, this is the track that got me into Warframe. A pity they only use it for Prime Access Teasers now.

Just listen to those drums. 

Edited October 2, 2014 by LordMelvin

[notionphil]

the change has been so gradual that I had not noticed it over the past 1.5 years. Kudos OP, great points. I miss the ambience and the feeling of stalking my prey, instead of mass glowy shiny slaughter.

[noveltyhero]

the change has been so gradual that I had not noticed it over the past 1.5 years. Kudos OP, great points. I miss the ambience and the feeling of stalking my prey, instead of mass glowy shiny slaughter.

Yep, it feels weird thinking about it now.

 

However maybe this is the way DE wants the game to go? I mean I would love the older darker tilesets, back when the infested literary came out of the dark at you. Also in terms of frames I think DE is/at least should  go back and forth, introducing new crazy designs and then push out an "ancient" one for variety.

 

The rest that I'd say is implied by everyone in this thread, the game has lost that depth to its atmosphere in some missions :/

[Phooney]

You could actually combine these into 2 types depending on the mission.  The type where is it run & gun, and the type were you need to be in the dark, staying in shadows.

 

Some of the big open area tile sets would be great for run & gun.  Just a horde of bad guys waiting to die.  And another wave of hordes following that one.

 

In the smaller hallways and twisting corners is where the light needs to shine in from windows or else you can't see.  The flashlight is there in game already, make it useful.  The last time I ran a sabotage where the team destroyed the power core, the lights dimmed a little.  I didn't even hardly notice to be honest, the devs need to introduce complete darkness and let the eyes of the enemy be the clue that something is near by.  Corpus flashlights lighting the corridors...

 

Oh how great would it be to have a complete dark infested tileset.  Erie silence with the sudden rush of infested...then silence again.  *Shudder*

Edited October 2, 2014 by Phooney

[notionphil]

Yep, it feels weird thinking about it now.

 

However maybe this is the way DE wants the game to go? I mean I would love the older darker tilesets, back when the infested literary came out of the dark at you. Also in terms of frames I think DE is/at least should  go back and forth, introducing new crazy designs and then push out an "ancient" one for variety.

 

The rest that I'd say is implied by everyone in this thread, the game has lost that depth to its atmosphere in some missions :/

 

Yep. Part of this is aesthetic, and part is gameplay.

 

The often overused term powercreep is largely responsible on the gameplay front. I remember sitting on the elevated pod platform at Xini, literally nervous as the doors opened and a new wave of snarling infested rushed forth.

 

Sure, I had an ult but I could really only cast once or twice. No energy regen aura. No corrupted mods to reduce my casting cost by 300%. No perma anything. And no readily available guns that could mow down the entire room just by being waved in the general direction.

 

Its safe to say Warframe isn't going back to that. I hope we are looking towards new challenges and ways of generating tension/drama.

[noveltyhero]

Yep. Part of this is aesthetic, and part is gameplay.

 

The often overused term powercreep is largely responsible on the gameplay front. I remember sitting on the elevated pod platform at Xini, literally nervous as the doors opened and a new wave of snarling infested rushed forth.

 

Sure, I had an ult but I could really only cast once or twice. No energy regen aura. No corrupted mods to reduce my casting cost by 300%. No perma anything. And no readily available guns that could mow down the entire room just by being waved in the general direction.

 

Its safe to say Warframe isn't going back to that. I hope we are looking towards new challenges and ways of generating tension/drama.

I remember my first encounter with the infested. Me and my friends were spawned in this dark ship, few tiles and nothing. Going up this elevator and BAM 100s of infested just waiting, we melee'd through all of them and the coolest moment I had was when I went back in the elevator three ancients followed me in (I thought I could escape: one friend downed the other peeing himself on a box) so I had the rest of the aggro with me.

 

Damn, the battle we had was intense as a new player. First time I wall ran I used it to dodge it and land on the ancient to the slam attack him with my dual heat swords and finish him there. The last to I kicked over and took that opportunity to finish them off, no abilities.

 

 

^I know it may be off-topic but that is when I felt like a ninja, that is what inspired me to play the game the way that I want and forget about this mentality that plagues new players (trying to get the strongest things ASAP).

[LordMelvin]

I remember my first encounter with the infested. Me and my friends were spawned in this dark ship, few tiles and nothing. Going up this elevator and BAM 100s of infested just waiting, we melee'd through all of them and the coolest moment I had was when I went back in the elevator three ancients followed me in (I thought I could escape: one friend downed the other peeing himself on a box) so I had the rest of the aggro with me.

 

Damn, the battle we had was intense as a new player. First time I wall ran I used it to dodge it and land on the ancient to the slam attack him with my dual heat swords and finish him there. The last to I kicked over and took that opportunity to finish them off, no abilities.

 

 

^I know it may be off-topic but that is when I felt like a ninja, that is what inspired me to play the game the way that I want and forget about this mentality that plagues new players (trying to get the strongest things ASAP).

That's an awesome story. Reminds me of a sabotage my friend and I were doing back in U8. We got mobbed by Infested on the way to extraction and since I was Frost I couldn't run as fast as his Loki. So I told him to run to extraction while I held off the swarm with my Scindo. I went down in a blaze of glory but damn the ground was littered with corpses. Easily the coolest damn moment I've ever had.

[Evanescent]

I remember my first encounter with the infested. Me and my friends were spawned in this dark ship, few tiles and nothing. Going up this elevator and BAM 100s of infested just waiting, we melee'd through all of them and the coolest moment I had was when I went back in the elevator three ancients followed me in (I thought I could escape: one friend downed the other peeing himself on a box) so I had the rest of the aggro with me.

 

Damn, the battle we had was intense as a new player. First time I wall ran I used it to dodge it and land on the ancient to the slam attack him with my dual heat swords and finish him there. The last to I kicked over and took that opportunity to finish them off, no abilities.

 

 

^I know it may be off-topic but that is when I felt like a ninja, that is what inspired me to play the game the way that I want and forget about this mentality that plagues new players (trying to get the strongest things ASAP).

IKR?!?!?!?!

 

Play how you want! I also had ancients in a lift when I was new.

 

Unfortunately I had no friends and I was alone.....and 2 were toxic......

 

You can guess what happened.