How To Spray And Not Pray (Spray Patterns Suggestion)

[noveltyhero]

How tos:

How to fix U14:https://forums.warfr...how-to-fix-u14/

How to improve Kubrows:https://forums.warfr...mprove-kubrows/

How to "leak" more lore:https://forums.warfr...leak-more-lore/

How to fix melee combat: https://forums.warfr...x-melee-combat/

How to make Phorid a Beast: https://forums.warfr...orid-a-beast-d/

How to easily break down language barriers: https://forums.warfr...guage-barriers/

How to fix difficulty problems: https://forums.warfr...culty-problems/

How to control our Kubrows: https://forums.warfr...ol-our-kubrows/

How to rush (a new game mode suggestion): https://forums.warfr...ode-suggestion/

How to fix disruption auras once and for all: https://forums.warfr...ce-and-for-all/

How to visually improve Zephyr: https://forums.warfr...improve-zephyr/

How to improve the survival gamemode: https://forums.warfr...vival-gamemode/

How to improve the quests, goals and the system: https://forums.warfr...and-the-system/

How to improve platinum purchases?: https://forums.warfr...inum-purchases/

How to further improve the UI and management: https://forums.warfr...and-management/

 

.:DISCLAIMER: Any one of my "How to" posts is a mere suggestion based on personal opinion as to how DE can change certain things :.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey guys,

 

(hopefully) I am not the only one who feels that certain weapons need some unique mechanic or skill-level required to be used effectively. Now don't get me wrong I know we don't need another Counter-Strike but I do feel that certain weapons can have their power balanced by how effectively you can use the weapon when you are not burst firing it.

 

Of course this only applies to automatic rifles

 

What is a spray pattern?

A spray pattern dictates where the bullets go in the order they are fired.

 

For example, I have a magazine of 30 rounds, I start firing: the first 10 rounds causes my weapon (and therefore aim) to go up, the next 10 to go left and the next 10 to go right.

 

If you learn this pattern, what you are then able to do is move your aim in opposite directions as the rounds are fired to make up for this shift, allowing you to effectively mow down enemies without losing accuracy.

 

The spray pattern can be broken up if you let go of the trigger for a second or two (this is burst firing), whilst it is easier to do this than follow a spray pattern it is less effective when using a weak weapon or faced with lots of enemies.

 

A spray pattern is consistent for the weapon its placed on, therefore requiring skill to master a weapon.

 

<explained as best as I could>

This video shows how spray patterns work for the AK-47 in CS:GO.

 

Is this the answer to making all weapons easy to use and hard to master?

No, it is a mere small step of it, firing mechanics and ammunition would also tie into it.

 

 

Before you kill me with stones, please acknowledge that not every weapon should receive it. Most current weapons are fine as they are, I am simply suggesting that this is added for certain future power houses.

 

Additionally, once the base mechanic of it functioning in the game is built, DE can mess with it and maybe we see some cooler stuff

 

 

 

 

Extras

 

Possible weapons to receive this:

-Soma

-Gorgon (Wraith)

-Twin Vipers

-Grakata

-Karak*

-Furis (Ak)*

-Boltor (Prime)

-

 

*these weapons will have a very small and basic pattern just to introduce the overall system to newer players.

 

Plasma/laser weapons should not have any specific spray patterns other than what they have now, for balancing purposes.

 

What do you think? Yay or Nay?

Edited August 27, 2014 by noveltyhero

[bejuizb]

Yay

 

Ex hardcore FPS player here, and I'd love some bullet patterns.

[cyril1204]

Nay to both Gorgon and cestra. Both weapons use wind-up mechanic with a just-right recoil rate for players to re-adjust their aim. If you're talking about recoil we already have something like Boar. For the most part I had no idea what you want since the weapons' firing mechanic is fine as they are now. Why break something that is working

[noveltyhero]

Nay to both Gorgon and cestra. Both weapons use wind-up mechanic with a just-right recoil rate for players to re-adjust their aim. If you're talking about recoil we already have something like Boar. For the most part I had no idea what you want since the weapons' firing mechanic is fine as they are now. Why break something that is working

Those weapons were mere suggestions, it is not fixing something that isn't broken -.-

I feel like you didn't read much :/

 

Anywho, it is adding a whole new mechanic for certain weapons which can come in the future. Maybe you're right about wind-up weapons though

Yay

 

Ex hardcore FPS player here, and I'd love some bullet patterns.

High five! ^^

[DSpite]

So what happens under this system, when I put 100% recoil reduction on?

[RSITH]

APPROVED!

[noveltyhero]

So what happens under this system, when I put 100% recoil reduction on?

Is that even possible? If so tell me under what conditions? (how many mod slots and points being used)

If 2 slots are used and above 15 points then I see no problem, after all you are limiting out a large part of the weapon's damage and/or utility :S

[Halisi]

I'd be happy with a change like this, it would add a layer of skill to automatic weapons without being overly complicated. Frankly I've been questioning the lack of recoil on certain weapons for a while now "boltor prime". Although I don't think this would work on the karak due to its negligible recoil and adding recoil would hamper the guns intended usage as an easy to use automatic weapon with good accuracy and moderate damage. 

[--Xalted-LuaGuard--]

Is that even possible? If so tell me under what conditions? (how many mod slots and points being used)

If 2 slots are used and above 15 points then I see no problem, after all you are limiting out a large part of the weapon's damage and/or utility :S

 

Vile Precision and Stabilizer on rifles (-60% recoil each)

 

Cost: 11 drain and 9 drain respectively maxed

Edited August 27, 2014 by Miracl3

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

The laser/plasma weapons shouldn't have any recoil as a balancing feature IMO, since they already have lower damage than their hitscan counterparts (and have wonky projectile hitboxes that make consistent headshots impossible). The Cestra should have the recoil replaced with spread, and the insane vertical recoil should instead go on another gun (Furis or Viper?).

 

Karak > Dera (accurate automatic rifles)

Grakata > Tetra (SMG's)

Soma > Supra (LMG's)

Twin Vipers > Dual Cetra (bullet hoses)

[notionphil]

I am strongly in favor of this idea; and really any idea that adds both balance factors + weapon diversity + "easy to learn hard to master" characteristics.

 

+1

 

Would fit quite well in the Balance 2.0 - The Cost Of Power document

[noveltyhero]

Vile Precision and Stabilizer on rifles (-60% recoil each)

 

Cost: 11 drain and 9 drain respectively maxed

Seems worth it, I mean if you are really going to sacrifice potential damage and utility then it is your own problem.

 

For sake of balancing it should remove the pattern completely only at 100% or higher, so you really put your weapon at cost :/

 

I'd be happy with a change like this, it would add a layer of skill to automatic weapons without being overly complicated. Frankly I've been questioning the lack of recoil on certain weapons for a while now "boltor prime". Although I don't think this would work on the karak due to its negligible recoil and adding recoil would hamper the guns intended usage as an easy to use automatic weapon with good accuracy and moderate damage. 

Yeah the lack of recoil on some weapons also makes it boring for me to use, maybe that is why I can't stand the Boltor Prime -.-"

 

I do use the Soma though but only for low level missions and burst firing it due to high mag size, so maybe that is slightly hypocritical :/

 

The laser/plasma weapons shouldn't have any recoil as a balancing feature IMO, since they already have lower damage than their hitscan counterparts (and have wonky projectile hitboxes that make consistent headshots impossible). The Cestra should have the recoil replaced with spread, and the insane vertical recoil should instead go on another gun (Furis or Viper?).

 

Karak > Dera (accurate automatic rifles)

Grakata > Tetra (SMG's)

Soma > Supra (LMG's)

Twin Vipers > Dual Cetra (bullet hoses)

I sort of do agree on that, my examples were vague but I will edit main post, thanks :D

 

I am strongly in favor of this idea; and really any idea that adds both balance factors + weapon diversity + "easy to learn hard to master" characteristics.

 

+1

 

Would fit quite well in the Balance 2.0 - The Cost Of Power document

Feel free to add it in there! Very nice post to be honest :)

[UncommonUnicorn]

Spray patterns?

Do such things even exist in reality?

 

In any case, I'm opposed.

Recoil should be random.

[noveltyhero]

Spray patterns?

Do such things even exist in reality?

 

In any case, I'm opposed.

Recoil should be random.

Lol, in reality you can't have a small lunch box firing 20+ rockets destroying everything everywhere but here goes Warframe.

 

Explain why? Adding spray patterns to some weapons would balance their power out. Not everything needs flat statistical balancing, the Soma for example can be added a spray pattern to therefore justify its power. It is dead easy to kill things with it :/

[Rettycombine]

Wrong thread.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Rettycombine

[UncommonUnicorn]

Lol, in reality you can't have a small lunch box firing 20+ rockets destroying everything everywhere but here goes Warframe.

 

Explain why? Adding spray patterns to some weapons would balance their power out. Not everything needs flat statistical balancing, the Soma for example can be added a spray pattern to therefore justify its power. It is dead easy to kill things with it :/

Wouldn't adding a spray pattern actually increase their power because, you know, the recoil you get is predictable and thus counteractable?

Unless you start adding weird spray patterns like the smiley from Borderland's Friendly Fire.

[noveltyhero]

Wouldn't adding a spray pattern actually increase their power because, you know, the recoil you get is predictable and thus counteractable?

Unless you start adding weird spray patterns like the smiley from Borderland's Friendly Fire.

Well for something like the Boltor P or Soma, say you are in the middle of the fire fight, the only way you are going to make up for the pattern is by being very good with the said weapon (in which case I don't mind you owning all because you are skilled).

 

It is relatively easy to counter the pattern when shooting at a wall, but harder when you are shooting in different directions to different enemies.

 

 

Also it wouldn't "increase" their power, but it will justify it.

[noveltyhero]

Just wanted to drop this here:http://youtu.be/TLwWAB9kFcQ?t=1m24s

Those 10 seconds or however long it is displays the original recoil of the Braton.

 

Not saying the Braton should go back to it, but we had strong recoil in the past. What gives with all these kick-less weapons?

[HolidayPi3]

Just wanted to drop this here:http://youtu.be/TLwWAB9kFcQ?t=1m24s

Those 10 seconds or however long it is displays the original recoil of the Braton.

 

Not saying the Braton should go back to it, but we had strong recoil in the past. What gives with all these kick-less weapons?

I believe that is the Burston, which did have nuts recoil that made it have an inaccurate burst. But that's a moot point. I agree that the addition of so many recoil-less weapons has made gunplay more bland.

Weapons don't feel as powerful anymore. The only thing that lets me know that a weapon is strong nowadays is the number that pops up after I shoot something. There's not as much 'feel' anymore. Recent released guns haven't had much 'oomph' to them.

Not only that, but I totally agree with you that recoil is a great balance factor that people often forget about. People often complain that X or Y gun is too strong, and propose to nerf the damage. Why not keep the damage and add recoil?

Essentially, leave weapons with the ability to do massive damage, but make it harder to achieve. Knowing that a gun has *potential* to do tons of damage is very endearing. Even more so when you can unlock that potential with a little bit of practice.

[UncommonUnicorn]

Not only that, but I totally agree with you that recoil is a great balance factor that people often forget about. People often complain that X or Y gun is too strong, and propose to nerf the damage. Why not keep the damage and add recoil?

Maybe because said guns are said to be accurate?

*cough* Soma *cough*

[noveltyhero]

Maybe because said guns are said to be accurate?

*cough* Soma *cough*

So high accuracy always means headshot no recoil?

 

In CS:GO the AWP is accurate as hell, is it super easy to use? No. The AK-47, M4A4 are also accurate but they aren't easy to use. A spray pattern/more recoil doesn't necessarily decrease a weapon's accuracy, it decreases the users' accuracy 

[HolidayPi3]

Maybe because said guns are said to be accurate?

*cough* Soma *cough*

Said guns? I never stated the Soma. I would say that, given the Soma's description, low recoil is a feature of the gun. Other guns *cough* Boltor prime *cough* don't have that excuse. Most, if not all recently released guns have no recoil to speak of, with no explanation.

That being said, recoil =/= accuracy of the gun. Latron P is accurate but has some kick to it.

[MechaTails]

Adding arbitrary spray patterns to make weapons harder to use, or to "require skill to master the weapon" as it's being phrased here, is adding artificial difficulty. It's the kind of thing players react to vicerally with scolding posts and violent dry heaving.

I wonder though what players consider artificial difficulty, and how they choose which ideas to bash/praise.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

Adding arbitrary spray patterns to make weapons harder to use, or to "require skill to master the weapon" as it's being phrased here, is adding artificial difficulty. It's the kind of thing players react to vicerally with scolding posts and violent dry heaving.

I wonder though what players consider artificial difficulty, and how they choose which ideas to bash/praise.

 

How is this artificial difficulty? Explain.

[noveltyhero]

Adding arbitrary spray patterns to make weapons harder to use, or to "require skill to master the weapon" as it's being phrased here, is adding artificial difficulty. It's the kind of thing players react to vicerally with scolding posts and violent dry heaving.

I wonder though what players consider artificial difficulty, and how they choose which ideas to bash/praise.

How is this artificial difficulty? Explain.

It is artificial because the difficulty is an extra layer that is standalone (if you know what I mean). It is basically an extra that doesn't make much logical sense.

 

 

However in this particular case artificial difficulty isn't bad. Keep in mind I am not asking for all the weapons to receive this, just the ones that DE wants to be powerful. So they aren't as easy to use, i.e the Boltor Prime is insanely easy to use (yeah even with the so called "travel time") however if it had more recoil it would be better. A lot of weapons also lose their "kick" with less or no recoil, the Tiberon for example is said to have "low recoil" but the recoil on the Burston(/Prime) isn't high enough to make me say ohh yeah the Tiberon is balanced differently.

 

Unless DE changes some things most weapons will remain the same in their category. Which sucks because each category can have lots of different unique weapons. i.e I want an SMG (like Grakata) that has a spray pattern tied to it, with a rather large magazine and rate of fire. Due to the (also expecting low damage and high crit/status etc. stats) way it has the stats a spray pattern can make it much harder to use (assuming ridiculous recoil) so if you are skilled enough you will greatly lead this badboy into battle, but if not then you can stick with the weaker easier to use Grakata.