Running Should Be As Fast As Butt-Scooting. (*new* Suggested Slide Changes Update) (Updated 21.08.14)

[Lukap99]

Butt-scoot

 

An advanced parkour maneuver used by veteran Tenno to increase forward velocity without sacrificing stamina. It is done by doing a short slide while running.

 

 

Everyone who has played Warframe for over an hour will tell you that butt-scooting is the way to go if you want to go fast like Sanic d Quickthog. This is because for some reason you gain a tiny bit of acceleration when butt-scooting.

 

But what if DE were to remove that tiny bit of acceleration in favor of making us run that fast always? Would that solve the problem of rushing?

 

It won't. But it's a good first step, I think.

EDIT: Rushing is a player choice and should not be touched. If players want to rush then let them. The game balances this out by the fact that you don't have teammates to revive you if you die, as a sort of "high-risk-I-want-the-reward-now" style of gameplay.

The point of this change is to have parkour be slightly more fuild.
 

Here's a pic that explains what I mean better than words.

 

 

Right-o, now that we've taken care of that, what will happen with the scoots outside of going fast?

Welp, here's the image. (Warning, it's long)

 

 

Link to video mentioned in image: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1020583/Animation-Bootcamp-An-Indie-Approach

Not mentioned in image:

1. We should also be able to change directions while sliding.

2. Even though the new slide maintains speed mid-air if activated, it can still influence direction.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Lukap99

[AlphaHorseman]

Wait, how come butt scooting is bad? I personally like the mechanic, so I'm not getting your point, and before I go on a rant, I'd like to hear your point a bit more clearly before doing so.

 

Oh, don't bring in coptering and wall slinging as bad, a lot of Forum people will gut you for it. Plus the Devs said these mechanics give the game a bit of uniqueness, and will be keeping them because of it.

[Imaru]

Rushing is not a mechanic in the game but a play style. Nerfing buttscooting would not only cause huge outcry on the forums but would not help the rushing problem.

[RexRgisIocus]

I for one would prefer if butt-scooting as you call it, as well as coptering were taken out of the game. I find it to be completely immersion breaking (inb4 what immersion or logic, we are space ninjas) and it also looks ridiculous. I think parkour should be reworked/made more useful and/or viable in every map.

 

Also if regular missions were made more entertaining maybe people wouldn't feel the need to rush everything. Then again I could be wrong.

[Kurrumitsumi]

i dont use the butt scoots, i slide and then jump which does like a front flip, and then start sliding while in the air which puts you in a cool kung fu kick position and rinse and repeate

[Feallike]

..... I hate to say this... Parkour 2.0 will 90% take out all need to buttscoot or Copter.....

 

If the DE doesn't remove Bunny sliding, or bunny flying in Parkour 2.0 i will be surprised.

[Noble_Cactus]

..... I hate to say this... Parkour 2.0 will 90% take out all need to buttscoot or Copter.....

 

If the DE doesn't remove Bunny sliding, or bunny flying in Parkour 2.0 i will be surprised.

 

What makes you think that?

[Lukap99]

Wait, how come butt scooting is bad? I personally like the mechanic, so I'm not getting your point, and before I go on a rant, I'd like to hear your point a bit more clearly before doing so.

 

Oh, don't bring in coptering and wall slinging as bad, a lot of Forum people will gut you for it. Plus the Devs said these mechanics give the game a bit of uniqueness, and will be keeping them because of it.

What? I never said that butt-scooting is bad.

*looks at title*

HOW TO REMOVE BUTT SCOOTS / RUNNING SHOULD BE AS FAST AS SLIDING

D'oh! Sorry about that. Going to change that after the reply.

Anyhow, I actually don't have anything against it. In fact, I use it quite often in game.

But my point is that we shouldn't have to resort to constant butt-scooting in order to achieve our maximum ground velocity.

 

Also, I have nothing against wall-slinging and coptering. I was just going to suggest giving us more control over our wall slings + new animations.

Coptering is still a bit of an iffy issue with me... I'll think of something to say for it later.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Lukap99

[-CM-s7even]

This allows the slower frames to keep up with the faster ones why would you want to make it even slower for the slow frame?

[Feallike]

What makes you think that?

 

Well it makes sense, it would be the perfect time for the DE to do that. Kinda like Melee 2.0 took out Charge attacks since the DE found it to be a broken mechanic.

 

Parkour 2.0 will take out Bunny sliding, and Bunny flying since there both broken mechanics that makes regular Parkour obsolete. Ofcourse if Parkour 2.0 makes Parkour faster then both methods then it won't be a problem.

[HunterHog]

I for one would prefer if butt-scooting as you call it, as well as coptering were taken out of the game. I find it to be completely immersion breaking (inb4 what immersion or logic, we are space ninjas) and it also looks ridiculous. I think parkour should be reworked/made more useful and/or viable in every map.

 

Also if regular missions were made more entertaining maybe people wouldn't feel the need to rush everything. Then again I could be wrong.

what immersion or logic, we are space ninjas

[AlphaHorseman]

I for one would prefer if butt-scooting as you call it, as well as coptering were taken out of the game. I find it to be completely immersion breaking (inb4 what immersion or logic, we are space ninjas) and it also looks ridiculous. I think parkour should be reworked/made more useful and/or viable in every map.

 

Also if regular missions were made more entertaining maybe people wouldn't feel the need to rush everything. Then again I could be wrong.

what immersion or logic, we are space ninjas

 

you asked for it.

 

And again, Coptering is here to stay, the Devs were adamant about it. And before you say "no, not if enough people complain about it" there really isn't an issue here as pretty much very few people complain about it because it's one of the things that make this game unique. Rebecca even stated so, as she loves using it.

 

Regular mission being more entertaining, sure, but there will always be people who rush missions.

[vaugahn]

I for one would prefer if butt-scooting as you call it, as well as coptering were taken out of the game. I find it to be completely immersion breaking (inb4 what immersion or logic, we are space ninjas) and it also looks ridiculous. I think parkour should be reworked/made more useful and/or viable in every map.

 

Also if regular missions were made more entertaining maybe people wouldn't feel the need to rush everything. Then again I could be wrong.

 

Sliding is okay. You can do that IRL, it's not a huge leap to assume space ninjas could do it better.

 

The way coptering looks is the problem; it's good in theory (a quick directional boost in midair) but it looks ridiculous. If they legitimize it they should at least make it look better somehow.

[Lukap99]

Nobody read updated OP because everyone is divided between wanting to remove butt-scoots and players who like butt-scoots telling them that they're wrong.

:I

I really should have seen this coming.

[notionphil]

But my point is that we should[nt] have to resort to constant butt-scooting in order to achieve our maximum ground velocity.

 

 

 

I personally like that additional skill based control over my warframe increases its movement speed. I don't particualy care that it's a butt scoot, a wall-run or a copter. I like all 3 and use them all, and it makes me feel ninja.

 

If plain vanilla running were the same speed as all of the above, I'd probably enjoy playing a bit less and feel like WF used even less skill.

[Ryouhi]

Butt-scooting is much more acceptable than Coptering in my opinion.

I opened a thread about removing/nerfing that and to compensate increase general movements speed for all warframes to compensate.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/292310-remove-zoren-coptering-and-increase-movement-speed/

 

Though Buttscooting is part of the problem too.

Sprinting should be the fastest way to get from A to B, or the use of parkour should give you faster speed or access to shortcuts, f.e.

 

Maybe something like if you sprint for X Seconds you gain extra speed up to a cap making it more useful outside of combat to get around

[Lukap99]

I personally like that additional skill based control over my warframe increases its movement speed. I don't particualy care that it's a butt scoot, a wall-run or a copter. I like all 3 and use them all, and it makes me feel ninja.

 

If plain vanilla running were the same speed as all of the above, I'd probably enjoy playing a bit less and feel like WF used even less skill.

Thanks for the honest feedback notionphil.

It wasn't my intention to reduce the skill needed to go fast in WF, but rather make parkour focus more on gaining and preserving momentum, instead of just magically generating more by butt-scooting.

I shall update the OP with more images and edited info. Perhaps after I've gathered enough feedback I can create even better suggestions.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Lukap99

[RexRgisIocus]

I agree with vaugahn, the main problem is how coptering looks. Although I would prefer it didn't even exist, that's just me and very small minority.

 

Coptering and butt-scooting still look ridiculous and they trivialize the parkour system to the point that people don't find the need to use it. Then again people like choice, so why not instead of removing it make it have drawbacks? Like butt-scooting using stamina and coptering making the frame dizzy like that galatine stance combo if overused, say 2 or 3 times in a row?

 

That way there are reasons to choose between coptering and vaulting and using wall-runs and stuff.

[AlphaHorseman]

I agree with vaugahn, the main problem is how coptering looks. Although I would prefer it didn't even exist, that's just me and very small minority.

 

Coptering and butt-scooting still look ridiculous and they trivialize the parkour system to the point that people don't find the need to use it. Then again people like choice, so why not instead of removing it make it have drawbacks? Like butt-scooting using stamina and coptering making the frame dizzy like that galatine stance combo if overused, say 2 or 3 times in a row?

 

That way there are reasons to choose between coptering and vaulting and using wall-runs and stuff.

I'll agree that having the animation improvements is a must, but making coptering dizzy the frame sounds just as trivial.  We already have to use vautling for objects, you can choose to slide and flip over these objects, just as parkour elements do, or just vault over them once you reach them. Same for Coptering over crevasses, you can either copter across or use wall-running to get you there. The choice is already there.

[AlphaHorseman]

But i must say, this is a good introduction to Parkour 2.0, I like the logic behind your reasoning Rex.

[(PSN)Zeylon]

It would be preferable for there to be some point behind using Sprint mods, as opposed to a momentum came by butt-scoot jump.  I like the idea of keeping it around for people that like sliding around on their &#! for whatever reason, but removing any speed gain.  I also despise the suggestion by some that there's actually some modicum of skill required to do it.  There is not.  

Realistically, I figure butt-sliding should slow you down.. unless you have Maglev, then maybe the same speed?  I could see some possibly synergy between boosting your sprint speed and using maglev to get some speed maybe.  Perhaps a higher stamina req for the jump out of slide, and no restoration of stamina mid-process.

[BloodArmoredApostle]

lol nickpicking the game to death...how nice....

 

-,-

 

really is this really need to be a topic? couldn't have thought of anything else OP? 

[Lukap99]

It would be preferable for there to be some point behind using Sprint mods, as opposed to a momentum came by butt-scoot jump.  I like the idea of keeping it around for people that like sliding around on their @$$ for whatever reason, but removing any speed gain.  I also despise the suggestion by some that there's actually some modicum of skill required to do it.  There is not.  

Realistically, I figure butt-sliding should slow you down.. unless you have Maglev, then maybe the same speed?  I could see some possibly synergy between boosting your sprint speed and using maglev to get some speed maybe.  Perhaps a higher stamina req for the jump out of slide, and no restoration of stamina mid-process.

 

The general idea was that running, butt-scooting and butt-scoot jumping are the same speed, and you use them to traverse obstacles at a maintained speed. Experienced players could gain momentum from the wall sling and maintain the speed for quite a while.

So, you wouldn't need to give butt-scoot jumping a higher stamina requirement to balance it out.

 

I also figured that the butt-scoot was used for aiming at enemies while maintaining the forward motion. So you run, encounter enemies, butt-scoot and get free shots at them while maintaining your forward motion. Maglev makes it easier to maintain that forward motion, so you have more time to shoot while sliding.

 

I also agree that there is no skill to periodically tapping Ctrl to gain free speed. I thought that opinion was cemented in my head until Notionphil replied, at which point I guess my brain turned off because I thought that he couldn't possibly be wrong.

Because you know, his threads on enemy balance are generally accepted as great.

 

lol nickpicking the game to death...how nice....

 

-,-

 

really is this really need to be a topic? couldn't have thought of anything else OP? 

It's not nitpicking if it influences how we play the game. The current movement system is really showing it's age, to the point where it's kind of jarring compared to how polished everything else is.

I feel as if most of the problems the current system has stems from the butt-scoot physics, so I made this thread.

Granted, it's not a gigantic thread with a well written OP like Aure7's parkour thread and Notionphil's AI thread, but I think it does it's job better than most of the common, smaller ones.

If we're going by your logic 90% of the threads here would be nitpicking.

 

Also, why did you go to the feedback category and not expect nitpicking? The devs clearly encourage feedback.

And nitpicking = feedback, even if it's insignificant.

 

[BrazilianJoe]

Actually coptering is much faster than running or sliding, if you pick the right weapon.

[Macdermott]

I loathe that the game allows movement this fast with no penalty.  basically everyone does it, and if I'm not feeling like it, I get left behind. I don't like having to do keyboard kung fu just to keep up with the group.

 

I see nothing wrong with making sprint legitimately faster.  No need to remove butt slide.  Just make sprint that fast...