Before You Ask For An Auction House, Think...

[Semshol]

About balance...market balance actually.

 

Now I know a lot of players are frustrated with TRADE. They don't like the trade chat...and I myself don't use it. I use the trade forums mostly. (P.S.: If you don't know me, I'm SEMSHOL. Owner of Semshol's Mega-Mart, I make a lot of plat via forums and often give 5 - 10p discounts to big buyers/regular customers). Link to Mega-mart: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/297752-semshols-mega-mart-selling-mods-and-prime-components/

 

Anyway, the thing is, people don't like the trade chat...but they think an auction house will solve it. That's not what will happen.

 

This is what will actually happen if an auction house happens and there are no limits:

You will see 20 copies of the more common rare mods going for 2p, then another 20 for 3p, then another 60 for 4p and so on and so forth.

 

But people don't want to sit around trade chat and they are IMPATIENT to sell their goods. What do?

 

Simple.

 

If the auction house is to be implemented, the following needs to be implemented as well:

1. The number of items you can put up for auction PER DAY is limited by your MR. This is to prevent players from flooding the market with EVERY mod and prime piece that they have - Instead, players will choose their best items to sell and prices overall will not be affected. Players are also likely to use up their auctions at the end of the day, only if they haven't traded.

 

2. Auction house should only unlock at MR5 - Why? Because it should not be a competitor to trade, but rather an enhancement. Players at MR5 can generally farm for better stuff than a lower MR player. However I am open to MR2's being able to use auction house. I just feel it would be better to have a progression.

 

3. Auction house must be limited to 1 item per auction - Why? Because our objective is not to making trading useless. Trading allows a trade of up to 3 items per trade, making it still viable for bulk buys/haggling, but the auction house should contain those more precious items that sell for a high-price. So players don't have to sit in trade and wait. Clarification: One item refers to one item category, i.e. 1 Crimson Dervish. If you want to sell multiple quantities of the same item, then that is fine I believe. What I want to prevent is 1 x Flow, for 5 pages of the Auction House. if you want to sell an entire BUNDLE of Flow for a strange price, I would not stop you.

 

4. Auction house needs an advantage over trade - In addition to it being faster, there should be no tax for trading through the auction house. The balancing disadvantage is that you can only list one item at time. I think this is very fair and it would give us the AH as an enhancement to trade, which is what I believe this to be about. It is not here to ruin/take over trade, it is here to enhance it.

 

5. Auctions must be time limited - An auction can be housed for a limit of 24 hours (standard for most games). This way, when the trades refresh, if they didn't sell, you can relist the next day. It keeps things fair and again, the AH wouldn't be flooded with endless copies of items just going in and sitting there. Amendment: This time is only a recommendation, DE can choose to set whatever time-limit be it 36 hours or 48. It should not exceed 48 however, or flooding will still happen.

 

To summarize, I think the auction house CAN definitely be implemented into the game, but it needs some limits so that it won't be flooded into oblivion during the first few weeks and so that players won't take undercutting to a level over 9,000. Just because I have 6 copies of Lethal Torrent, doesn't mean that I should be able to put all 6 copies of Lethal Torrent into the market, following by 12 Focus Energies, 3 Blazes, 4 Malignant Forces. etc. [Yes I really do have 6 copies of Lethal Torrent. I'm a farmer and a businessman y'know]

 

Player Concerns:

 

Some players have concerns regarding how some aspects of the Auction House should be implemented. I have therefore written this section to address those concerns.

 

1. What happens if I put the wrong item up for trade? Can I cancel it? - A cancellation limit of 1 hour should be imposed so that mistakes can be rectified, but the player can't 'cheat' by listing his items for 23 hours, cancelling the listing and then re-listing the items, before his trades refresh, essentially doubling the amount of items they can list. Another way to solve this is that a player can only have as many items listed as their MR. With time-limits of 24 hours imposed. That way even if they cancel, they can still only have X number of items listed. This system however may not work so well with trade so I would prefer the former suggestion.

 

2. What happens if I want to cancel an item, but there is already a bid on it? - It would not be fair to the bidder if you cancelled the item while a bid was on it. Therefore you must be careful when listing, about the bid price and the buyout price. If the bid is 3p and the buyout is 5p, you must be willing to accept a sale of 3p on the mod/prime item. This is both an advantage and disadvantage of using the AH over trade.

 

3. I don't understand how the Auction House is supposed to complement trading? - Well think of it this way. The Auction House, because of its 1 item limit, will be used to sell items of high single value. Things like Crimson Dervish, Maxed Serration etc. A fair price is established for those and everybody feelz good. The trade channel therefore becomes more geared toward sets or bulk buying of items, or just the occasional buy of a cheap small level item that people may not feel is worth listing. This is how the auction house should be considered an enhancement to trade rather than a competitor.

 

4. I want to trade sets! Why can't we trade sets? - The reason why sets cannot be implemented is because listing an entire set might make things difficult. Also some people sell sets that are missing one or two components for a cheaper price. Overall,I would say that the AH becomes overly cluttered and messy in terms of searching. I would prefer it if people could only list one item, thus giving trade an advantage over the AH which is already quicker and more convenient.

 

Extra Suggestion by CY13ERPUNK - Blind Bidding, read on to find out how it can keep prices fair:

 

implement a consignment house, with blind bids. The highest bid matches with lowest set price item for sale

 

For example: Let's say we have 4 items for sale say 10/20/30/40 plat (all same item for this example, thus same sale category)

 

People looking at the item in the consignment house cannot see listed prices (the seller's requested price), but they can see what the last 5 of that item sold for (to give a going rate).

 

Say the last one sold for 25, so the buyer bids 20, if he was the only buyer at that time, then the buyer would be matched with the person who listed their item for 10, once that match was complete, there would still be 3 left for sale at 20/30/40

 

If multiple buyers bid at the same time it works the same way, but in sequence, the highest bidder gets matched with the lowest priced, thus if two people bid one at 30 and another at 40, then the 40 bid would be matched with the 20 seller, and the 30 would then be matched with the 30 seller (continuing from our first example), leaving one item still for sale at 40

 

with this system, people can see the going rate, but they can not know what the seller set their price at, thus they bid based on going rate and/or trying to outbid if they really want a desirable item, thus a seller can set their sell price low to move fast, but risks lowering the market, or they can set a high sell price, but it might not move as fast. This would keep things fair.

 

City of Heroes/Villains used a system like this and AFAIK no other game has put a better working system in a game

 

Semshol's Addition: Sellers should also be able to see the last 5 that were sold so that sellers have an idea how to price their goods :)

 

Auction House - Making it fit the lore? Eudamon's suggestion with some modifications by me

 

That rescued trader Darvo is willing to sell your stuff for you. It could be with a small percentage of the item value taken as a cut (post-sale) or through some other means. You give him the item and tell him what you want for it. He will put it up at the end of the day, and you cannot change the asking price for at least 24 hours. You can change your order up to and until the end of the day. Meaning it will only be up for sale the next day.

 

He will also collect all the other items of other people - and will put them up together with your item at the same time. If the price is too high, nobody will buy it. If so, you have the chance to give a lower price the next day. Essentially, as in any market economy, eventually prices will adapt. Supply and demand will determine the prices, until the equilibrium is disturbed. Then they will settle at a different point.

 

Due to the 24 hour waiting period prices will be adjusted slowly. In addition I like the idea that Mastery Level determines the number of items you can put out for sale.

 

Semshol's addition: I think making the Darvo Mart (sorry for calling it that) pure platinum, would be interesting. So everything is standardized in that sense. Darvo will collect the items and then put them up like a global market place. After being sold he takes his mini commission and then gives the rest back to the player. Whole process takes 24 hours. Therefore, you will select the items and at the end of the day as long as it is within the number of your Mastery Rank, Darvo will list them for sale.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Semshol

[AnonCat]

I'm seeing lots and lots of talk about a trade hub. This post offers some valuable discussion on the topic, thanks mate!

[TwelfthAngel]

I just want an auction house.

 

That is all.

[7grims]

Yup, prices will go down again, either way I'm not going to under price my rare or special stuff.

In the end it's gonna be hard to be competitive, or sell anything at all.

 

I hope they give us options for pay, like you either can put plat, or primes and mods as payment, for your item.

[Zarbain]

I think we need a official trading site that is well known since forums trading isn't as well known as in game trading. But with these we still need the ability to trade with friends and not just randoms. 

[Noobstein]

I think you got something here, hopefully the devs look at it and implement your ideas as well. +1 from me.

[Semshol]

Yup, prices will go down again, either way I'm not going to under price my rare or special stuff.

In the end it's gonna be hard to be competitive, or sell anything at all.

 

I hope they give us options for pay, like you either can put plat, or primes and mods as payment, for your item.

 

I think if the auction house was 'only plat'. It would be better.

 

This way trading for other stuff (barter) still has a place and a purpose in the game and the devs don't have to remove a feature, just add one.

[Semshol]

I think you got something here, hopefully the devs look at it and implement your ideas as well. +1 from me.

 

Thanks. I've been against the auction house for a long time, but then I actually used my brain and realized that we could compromise :)

[-FV-Runehawk]

A respectable analysis, my fellow Clanmate-in-arms. Many folks wish blindly for an auction house, yet are unaware of the underlying implications and drawbacks if the system isn't executed properly. You raise some solid points, and I hope they are taken into consideration. 

[Semshol]

A respectable analysis, my fellow Clanmate-in-arms. Many folks wish blindly for an auction house, yet are unaware of the underlying implications and drawbacks if the system isn't executed properly. You raise some solid points, and I hope they are taken into consideration. 

 

Oh, tis the clan boss, sup :)

 

Yeah, I think that the whole auction house thing can work, but the flooding has to be prevented because you see it in most games:

 

150 pages of Iron Ore for 1 gold each. All thrown in by farmers, and then you have some of the other rarer ores at varying prices.

 

I think people aren't going to want to scroll through all that, so realistically, limiting the number of things people can auction is the best idea lol.

[ShinigamiZack]

I agree but paying in credit could be a good option as well but :

Beware of the "flip" (buying something at a lowest price for selling it later at a highter price )

I think a plat cap could be good ( a already defined max price ) wich would avoid things to get too much expensive, or avoid some brainless rookies to selling their goods for their real price x10 . 

if this things came, i think beeing able to sell or trade stalker , eximus or other things that are ways more random to get would be nice (even if it's just for credits , it's in my opinion a shame to sell for cred when peoples need those things (yeah I'm not a buisness-man , just a kind-hearted one) 

[Semshol]

I agree but paying in credit could be a good option as well but :

Beware of the "flip" (buying something at a lowest price for selling it later at a highter price )

I think a plat cap could be good ( a already defined max price ) wich would avoid things to get too much expensive, or avoid some brainless rookies to selling their goods for their real price x10 . 

if this things came, i think beeing able to sell or trade stalker , eximus or other things that are ways more random to get would be nice (even if it's just for credits , it's in my opinion a shame to sell for cred when peoples need those things (yeah I'm not a buisness-man , just a kind-hearted one) 

 

Well paying in credit may not be so good, because the higher level players who farm the good stuff are still going to want plat. So newbies kinda can't help it. If it was for credits it would have to be a huge amount to be useful to the higher-end players (i.e. for mass transmutation) so again it isn't that good.

 

With respect to the limits and 'flipping'. It's tough to deal with, since people might want to sell for a price they feel is right and the market may be too low. In which case, I would likely buy up the lower price items and set the rest at the appropriate price. This is called arbitrage and it happens in real-life (I'm a stock-market trader and I'm even trading right now LOL, it's my job see). So yeah, imposing limits might be tough. Not impossible, but tough to administer.

 

I 100% agree with selling BPs like Dread, Despair, Hate, Brakk stuff etc. Everything in WF should be freely tradable really :D.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Semshol

[Semshol]

Bumping so DE has a chance to see this.

[CY13ERPUNK]

consignment house

 

blind bids

 

highest bid matches with lowest set price item for sale

 

example: we have 4 items for sale say 10/20/30/40 plat (all same item for this example, thus same sale category)

 

ppl looking at the item in the consignment house cannot see listed prices, but they can see what the last 5 of that item sold for (to give a going rate)

 

say the last one sold for 25, so the buyer bids 20, if he was the only buyer at that time, then the buyer would be matched with the person who listed their item for 10, once that match was complete, there would still be 3 left for sale at 20/30/40 (other ppl would now see 25 and 20 listed as the most recent sale prices, so they could see the price going down)

 

if multiple buyers bid at the same time it works the same way, but in sequence, the highest bidder gets matched with the lowest priced, thus if two ppl bid one at 30 and another at 40, then the 40 bid would be matched with the 20 seller, and the 30 would then be matched with the 30 seller (continuing from our first example), leaving one item still for sale at 40

 

with this system, ppl can see the going rate, but they can not know what the seller set their price at, thus they bid based on going rate and/or trying to outbid if they really want a desirable item, thusly a seller can set their sell price low to move fast, but risks lowering the market, or they can set a high sell price, but it might not move as fast

 

its the only way to keep ppl fair

 

but i agree that MR should be the limiting stat on how many items

 

City of Heroes/Villains used a system like this and AFAIK no other game has put a better working system in a game

Edited August 19, 2014 by CY13ERPUNK

[Semshol]

-snip-

 

I like this, will add it to the main post!

Edited August 19, 2014 by Semshol

[Semshol]

Added CY13ERPUNK's suggestion to the main post :D

[Semshol]

-poking topic-

[CY13ERPUNK]

I like this, will add it to the main post!

 

np, btw ALL players could see the last 5 prices, it was not only limited to buyers or sellers, the system had good transparency (where it needed it)

 

i saw you added that, guess i didn't make it clear when i first wrote it

Edited August 19, 2014 by CY13ERPUNK

[noveltyhero]

Yep, this is my biggest fear. If the economy completely takes a fall. It would take around 6-8 months (2 major updates at least) to return it to a usable state :/

[Semshol]

Yep, this is my biggest fear. If the economy completely takes a fall. It would take around 6-8 months (2 major updates at least) to return it to a usable state :/

 

Pretty much that is why I made this topic, because I believe that the balance of the economy, must be taken into account

[tehgreg]

Personally, I don't care how badly it would impact our economy. I just want a place where I can set all my stuff on sale and don't have to stare at the trading chat for hours just to sell a mod for 5p. I have plenty of prime blueprints and rare/semi-rare mods that I want to get rid of. I am one of those players who would rather get rid of all the stuff at once at a cheap price than have to wait months just to sell one item.

 

I am already selling rare mods and stuff for ridiculously low prices - I would never have patience to sell my stuff at "normal" prices so having that 5p more is better than nothing to me.

[Semshol]

Personally, I don't care how badly it would impact our economy. I just want a place where I can set all my stuff on sale and don't have to stare at the trading chat for hours just to sell a mod for 5p. I have plenty of prime blueprints and rare/semi-rare mods that I want to get rid of. I am one of those players who would rather get rid of all the stuff at once at a cheap price than have to wait months just to sell one item.

 

I am already selling rare mods and stuff for ridiculously low prices - I would never have patience to sell my stuff at "normal" prices so having that 5p more is better than nothing to me.

 

That's fine, but there are 100's of players thinking the same as you. If you put everything on the market, you will not get to sell for 5p, you will be getting 1p, which is why I am suggesting that limits be imposed on the auction house so people don't put their entire inventory on there. Trust me, you cannot outflood the farmers (i.e. me)

[Semshol]

Hope somebody else remembers to bump this so it actually exists o3o

[tehgreg]

That's fine, but there are 100's of players thinking the same as you. If you put everything on the market, you will not get to sell for 5p, you will be getting 1p, which is why I am suggesting that limits be imposed on the auction house so people don't put their entire inventory on there. Trust me, you cannot outflood the farmers (i.e. me)

 

But that would also mean I would be buying stuff for 1p. And I'm perfectly fine paying 1p for blueprints of weapons that eventually end up gathering dust.

[Semshol]

 

But that would also mean I would be buying stuff for 1p. And I'm perfectly fine paying 1p for blueprints of weapons that eventually end up gathering dust.

 

Yeah, like I said, it's great in the short-term, but sucky in the long term. If everyone is allowed to list their entire inventory in day one of the auction house. There will be a lot of deals in the market. Which will be bad for sellers, great for buyers. How about 1 month down the line though? If things haven't cleared up, what then? And things won't clear up because even if everything drops to 1p, people only usually need 1 or 2 copies of each mod. The rarest stuff that people sell for higher-prices won't even be in the AH, or you won't see it because AH will be flooded.

 

That is why I am not against the AH, but I want it to be implemented carefully so people don't just put their entire inventory up, but rather put stuff that people will actually want to buy and bid on.