Prime Weapon Re-Balancing - How Many Threads Till We Get It? (So Many Braton Prime Threads!)

[MDRLOz]

TL DR: We could use a quick balance pass/re-balance on prime weapons before Scotts plate gets to full from Archwing. There are plenty of threads asking for it in the last four months alone. Especially the Braton prime which has 18 19 22 threads requesting a look in/buff!  

 

We have had the launcher/sniper/clan tech weapon pass/re-balancing and, though it has had mixed feedback, I would say the changes were a long time coming but have made a good affect on the game. They set a good standard that we can now use to go forward with future launcher and sniper type based weapons and also given some nice tweaks to a few clan tech that need a little more power. 

 

What we could also use is a quick once over for some of the prime weapons. Not all of them, but some of these weapons need a few tweaks and a few need big buffs. Now I will list nerf threads but there is really only one weapon in the prime category that people ask to be nerfed. (*cough* Boltor Prime *cough*). Personally I don't mind that being god tier, however I would like the rest of the weapons to be relatively equal in their power seeing as they all take roughly the same effort to obtain. 

 

Some need small issues e.g. Sicarus could use a damage buff but the fact that its a triple shot gun and its default clip size (20) means the last shot is two bullets seems an oversight that could be easily fixed. 

 

The Akbronco being the second most expensive and resource/time intensive weapon in the game yet being only a small buff over the non-prime counterpart. (I think, on the whole, Dragon Nikana is top dog on overall drain) (Edit: Then again supra and amprex take a lot of Fieldron)

 

However I would like to pull your special attention to Braton prime. I only went back a few months and found 18 19 22 separate threads asking for a buff on this weapon. It has the same requirements to be gained and built as the other prime rifles: Boltor, Burston and Latron; however it is in a sub tier where it is probably closer in power to the Karak or the original boltor. Now I doubt anyone wants Braton prime to be the next Boltor Prime. However a small upgrade (some suggested in the threads below) would not go amiss and bring this up to being a real prime weapon. 

 

Now I want to point out I only went back about 3-4 months and did this manually and so I probably missed some stuff. Also just because a weapon is not listed does not mean it does not need a look in. This is just a list of threads with titles or main focuses discussing primes (ones that I found basically). I am sure if I dug a little deeper I would find others e.g. thread about Glaive prime not being any different to Glaive, however I would probably need to go further back.

 

Braton Prime Threads (To be honest we need a mega-thread just for Braton prime buff requests...)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/243666-buff-braton-prime/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/289674-weapon-rebalancing-braton-prime-is-underwhelming/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/225304-braton-prime-could-use-a-buff/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/271390-braton-prime-could-really-use-a-buff/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/272391-buff-braton-prime/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/261246-braton-prime-buff-on-the-horizon/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/258703-braton-prime-buff/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/191610-buff-braton-prime/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/296755-please-buff-the-braton-prime-its-inadequate-and-bratons-are-fun/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/297405-buff-braton-prime/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/295186-braton-prime/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/208202-u13-is-about-melee-but-dont-forget-the-other-weapons/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/192909-my-problems-with-the-boltor-prime/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/239485-buff-braton-prime-reload-speed/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/227000-the-braton-prime-ideology/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/235904-braton-prime-needs-a-buff/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/235258-so-why-is-the-braton-prime-so-bad-still/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/229451-braton-prime-update-13/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/303034-here-we-go-again-braton-prime-thread/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/317767-simple-buff-to-the-braton-prime/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/315560-please-buff-the-braton-prime/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/314495-braton-prime-low-damage/

 

General Prime weapons Rebalancing request / suggestion threads

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/275471-please-make-all-prime-weapons-equal/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/244344-prime-weapons-some-consistency-would-be-nice/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/247216-rebalance-primes/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/293971-the-rebalancing-of-prime-weapons-a-thread-with-numbers/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/248069-prime-weapons-and-polarities/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/229008-why-are-there-so-many-bad-prime-weapons/

 

Sicarus Prime Threads

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/286528-sicarus-prime-just-1-more-bullet-de-how-hard-can-it-be/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/256949-sicarus-prime/

 

Akbronco Prime Threads (Or Akbrongo as one guy called it...best name ever!)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/250166-akbronco-prime-should-be-buffed/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/258562-akbronco-prime-stats/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/260478-akbrongo-prime-recoil/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/242695-hardest-prime-weapon-to-make-needs-a-buff/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/299681-they-said-akbronco-prime-was-useless/   - Apparently new mods helped?

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/318347-buff-akbronco-prime-status-chance/ 

 

Lex Prime Threads (Aklex prime would be a buff... ofc Soon™)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/294482-lex-prime-change/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/257613-lex-prime-needs-a-buff/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/290564-is-the-aklex-prime-coming-soon/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/217881-me-want-aklex-prime-3/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/237018-aklex-prime/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/309953-lex-prime-and-marelok/

 

Fang Prime Threads

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/255604-fang-primes/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/239531-fang-prime/

 

Reaper Prime Thread

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/241876-buff-the-reaper-prime/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/315262-scythes-reaper-prime-hate-ether-reaper/

 

Orthos Prime Thread 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/299984-orthis-prime-has-no-polarity-slot/

 

Skana Prime Thread (Hey, why not its a prime?)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/259794-skana-prime-buff/

 

Boltor Prime Threads (8 Nerf, 1 Buff)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/243458-its-time-to-nerf-boltor-prime/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/192909-my-problems-with-the-boltor-prime/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/243261-i-think-its-time-boltor-prime-stops-rendering-130-weapons-obsolete/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/253908-soma-and-boltor-prime-need-a-nerf/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/293976-boltor-prime-issue-or-aaaaah-powercreep-is-wiping-our-ranks-save-you-lives/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/276410-how-is-the-boltor-prime-so-accurate/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/231316-boltor-prime-has-no-drawbacks-this-is-a-problem/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/192406-boltor-prime-is-grossly-overpowered/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/307252-nerf-the-boltor-prime/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/311296-boltor-prime-killing-the-game/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/302031-the-boltor-prime/  - I FOUND A BUFF THREAD!

 

Burston Prime

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/320669-burston-prime/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/305803-suggestion-buff-accuracy-and-critical-chance-of-burston-prime/

 

Dakra Prime

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/320375-dakra-prime/

 

Prime Skins

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/176874-prime-weapons-with-regular-skins/

Edited October 7, 2014 by MDRLOz

[Kestral9999]

Yeah... people have opinions.

 

That's what I got from this thread.

[RavenousPartyLibrarian]

Yeah... people have opinions.

 

That's what I got from this thread.

 

Here's your cookie. Go into the wilds and use this knowledge wisely.

[MDRLOz]

Yeah... people have opinions.

 

That's what I got from this thread.

Yeah of course people do. But what are those opinions? Are more people having the same opinion? Is it over a long period of time? If you then take an abstract point of view is their reason and weight to these peoples opinions?  Yes? No? Maybe? 

 

Its a forum for discussion is this not what its all about? 

[Casardis]

Despite many of them constantly coming, we never see such discussion appear on Community Hot Topics either, which is kind of worrisome. I know that DE can't just talk about everything if they don't have anything to add yet, but that very thought about them is worrisome in itself.

 

Also, good job piling up the topics together. If Drew ever decide to make a CHT (since he didn't do one last week), and talks about Prime weapon buffs/nerfs, you pretty much got all the things for him.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Casardis

[MrNonApplicable]

Good thread, balanced points and I couldn't see any personal bias either. Props to you, hope DE see this.

[Rydian]

Sometimes you just need to point how how wanted an issue actually is before somebody will pay attention.

Hopefully it works in this case.

[Renegade343]

What about most of the old Clan Tech weaponry too? No one seems to give them a look-over. 

[MDRLOz]

What about most of the old Clan Tech weaponry too? No one seems to give them a look-over. 

Though I agree some of those could use a look in quite a few have just gained some buffs. 

 

Lanka, Acrid, Torid, Spectra and Flux Rifle all got some nice buffs only a couple of weeks ago.

What weapon do you feel has been left out and still needs a look in?

 

The Dera is a little weak but still comparable to current braton prime however i guess it needs to be closer to the tetra in damage. 

The supra can be formed into a powerful weapon.

 

Not sure what is left that really need a big buff? 

Source: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/289522-update-1420-avalanche-offensive/ 

[Renegade343]

Though I agree some of those could use a look in quite a few have just gained some buffs. 

 

Lanka, Acrid, Torid, Spectra and Flux Rifle all got some nice buffs only a couple of weeks ago.

What weapon do you feel has been left out and still needs a look in?

 

The Dera is a little weak but still comparable to current braton prime however i guess it needs to be closer to the tetra in damage. 

The supra can be formed into a powerful weapon.

What I do not agree with these buffs is that they are just statistical buffs (not to say it is a bad thing at times), and do not offer anything fresh to the table in regards to being a Clan Tech weapon. And besides, the Torid did not really receive much of a buff, as its damage should be focused on the cloud, yet most damage is when you directly shoot the grenade at enemies. 

 

And as for weapons being left out, there are: 

 

Dual Cestras

Supra (to an extent, but it just needs a fun mechanic to bring it back to good use)

Dera (again, needs a fun mechanic to hold up on its own)

Embolist (could have a small range increase, but it could have something unique attached to it)

The Grinlok family (and funny enough, most people seem to hate me for advocating to decrease the Marelok's damage to bring it in line with the other secondaries and its rifle counterpart)

[Kestral9999]

Yeah of course people do. But what are those opinions? Are more people having the same opinion? Is it over a long period of time? If you then take an abstract point of view is their reason and weight to these peoples opinions?  Yes? No? Maybe? 

 

Its a forum for discussion is this not what its all about? 

1) A lot.

2) I guess.

3) Sure.

4) Maybe, I forget the question.

5) I couldn't find pervading personal bias in your post and therefor had little to reply to. These forums have left me a withered soul.

 

I can haz secund cooky?

[MDRLOz]

1) A lot.

2) I guess.

3) Sure.

4) Maybe, I forget the question.

5) I couldn't find pervading personal bias in your post and therefor had little to reply to. These forums have left me a withered soul.

 

I can haz secund cooky?

Yes my friend. Yes you can.  

 

I feel you need it. Put up your feet and have a rest. 

[Casardis]

I can haz secund cooky?

 

[Kestral9999]

[MDRLOz]

What I do not agree with these buffs is that they are just statistical buffs (not to say it is a bad thing at times), and do not offer anything fresh to the table in regards to being a Clan Tech weapon. And besides, the Torid did not really receive much of a buff, as its damage should be focused on the cloud, yet most damage is when you directly shoot the grenade at enemies. 

 

And as for weapons being left out, there are: 

 

Dual Cestras

Supra (to an extent, but it just needs a fun mechanic to bring it back to good use)

Dera (again, needs a fun mechanic to hold up on its own)

Embolist (could have a small range increase, but it could have something unique attached to it)

The Grinlok family (and funny enough, most people seem to hate me for advocating to decrease the Marelok's damage to bring it in line with the other secondaries and its rifle counterpart)

I do feel you are asking for a lot here. You say "fun mechanic" yet don't elaborate on any. How can the supra and dera get new mechanics when they simply are representations of the corpus weapons? 

 

Also damage buffs are not enough for you? Can you name how many mechanics get patched into existing weapons? 

 

Torid did get quite a good set of changes which also did some nice things to the cloud:

 - Impact of Projectile: 15% Proc Chance.

        - Gas Cloud changes:

            - Now has 10% Critical Chance.

            - Now 2x Critical Multiplier

            - Now has 40 DPS in Gas Cloud.

            - Damage radius increase from 1.75m to 3m

 

I know people wanted a grinlok change with the snipers and thats understandable. I agree on the emoblist as well, it is a bit wimpy. 

 

So I dont feel clan tech has done to badly on the whole. There is a few weapons that needed a little perking up but they got the major problems. 

[Renegade343]

I do feel you are asking for a lot here. You say "fun mechanic" yet don't elaborate on any. How can the supra and dera get new mechanics when they simply are representations of the corpus weapons? 

 

Also damage buffs are not enough for you? Can you name how many mechanics get patched into existing weapons? 

I have already proposed new and interesting mechanics for both the Supra (reverse recoil) and Dera (alternate stat changes from slightly critical chance focused to status chance focused), so at least I can have a say in that. Damage buffs are fine, but what weapons need to actually shine are unique mechanics so that they can hold their ground even if other, more powerful weapons come, provided that they do not have the unique mechanic. 

 

Torid did get quite a good set of changes which also did some nice things to the cloud:

 - Impact of Projectile: 15% Proc Chance.

        - Gas Cloud changes:

            - Now has 10% Critical Chance.

            - Now 2x Critical Multiplier

            - Now has 40 DPS in Gas Cloud.

            - Damage radius increase from 1.75m to 3m

Thing is, the critical chance and multiplier is not working yet with the cloud (and I think the radius too, but it would need to be confirmed), so I would leave that out for now.

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

7000 threads later - Devstream 449:

Rebecca:"Have you guys noticed that there were multiple calls for buffs to the braton prime?

Scott: "We've decided to take a look at the Braton Prime as well as others.."

 

5 months later....

 

Update 120.5

[DE]Drew:

"Greetings, Tenno. Here are a list of fixes and changes in this update."

 

Patch notes:

-Yada yada yada

-Bla bla bla

-Bar bar bar

-Ska dee ree

-Braton Prime: Reload speed decreased to 2.0

- yada yada yada

-bla bla bla

 

:P

Edited August 27, 2014 by -SLX-J3tAc3

[Cat_Jam]

7000 threads later - Devstream 449:

Rebecca:"Have you guys noticed that there were multiple calls for buffs to the braton prime?

Scott: "We've decided to take a look at the Braton Prime as well as others.."

 

5 months later....

 

Update 120.5

[DE]Drew:

"Greetings, Tenno. Here are a list of fixes and changes in this update."

 

Patch notes:

-Yada yada yada

-Bla bla bla

-Bar bar bar

-Ska dee ree

-Braton Prime: Reload speed decreased to 2.0

- yada yada yada

-bla bla bla

 

:P

 

Update 120.5? by then all of the weapons would be nerfed so that they dealt 1 DPS anyway!

Edited August 28, 2014 by Cat_Jam

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

Update 120.5? by then all of the weapons would be nerfed so that they dealt 1 DPS anyway!

Haha! Sounds about right to me!

[MirageKnight]

The real problem with regard to Prime Weapons is that there's no set, consistent and predictable formula that DE is using to scale up regular weapons to Prime status. 

 

None.

 

It's all over the damn place.

 

Some Primes are near total upgrades (Boltor Prime really - despite the lack of Slash), some have only a tiny improvement to one or two stats (I'm looking at you Glaive Prime) and some are a combination of upgrades and downgrades (Braton Prime).

 

This just reeks of laziness and sloppiness.

 

The only thing consistent about Prime weapons currently is they they all have bling. But Primed Frames? They're always consistently better than their regular counterparts.

 

In my opinion, this situation needs to change. Badly.

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

^

This man knows what the deal is. Right on, dude!

[Guziol]

You did great job with those lists. As a OP of one of those braton prime threads you listed i couldnt agree more and appreciate your imput.

[Damagedice]

Braton > Prime = 20 > 25.1 Damage. 5 > 10 status. Clip size + 5, reload time + .2 . Not even a polarity

Boltor > Prime = 25 > 54.5 Damage. (More than Doubled!) Fire rate incrased, Reload shortened, Critical damage increased. also, more accurate. And two polarities.

[low1991]

^

This man knows what the deal is. Right on, dude!

come on.

give DE some idea as to what a Prime should be.

it should to be close & almost similar to non-prime but differences in some.

 

if Prime = a whole new old ancient weapon... DE might as well release the weapon as a NEW weapon...

[atpbx1]

I want the Braton prime looked at simply because its the closest thing we have to a decent all round assault rifle.

 

I am sick of bolts, beams, charging, wind up, decade long reload times, explosives, limited clip sizes, &!$$ poor crit and status chances, no polarities and butt ugly weapons.

 

PLEASE rework the Braton prime to give as a decent all round weapon, it doesnt need to out damage a Soma or a Boltor prime, it doesnt need any nerfs, it just needs more substantial damage and viable critical and status chances.

 

It should be the most rounded of all our weapons.

Edited August 28, 2014 by atpbx1