noveltyhero Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 (edited) How tos: How to improve Kubrows:https://forums.warfr...mprove-kubrows/ How to "leak" more lore:https://forums.warfr...leak-more-lore/ How to fix melee combat: https://forums.warfr...x-melee-combat/ How to make Phorid a Beast: https://forums.warfr...orid-a-beast-d/ How to easily break down language barriers: https://forums.warfr...guage-barriers/ How to fix difficulty problems: https://forums.warfr...culty-problems/ How to control our Kubrows: https://forums.warfr...ol-our-kubrows/ How to rush (a new game mode suggestion): https://forums.warfr...ode-suggestion/ How to fix disruption auras once and for all: https://forums.warfr...ce-and-for-all/ How to visually improve Zephyr: https://forums.warfr...improve-zephyr/ How to improve the survival gamemode: https://forums.warfr...vival-gamemode/ How to improve the quests, goals and the system: https://forums.warfr...and-the-system/ How to improve platinum purchases?: https://forums.warfr...inum-purchases/ How to further improve the UI and management: https://forums.warfr...and-management/ How to spray and not pray (spray patterns suggestion): https://forums.warfr...rns-suggestion/ How RNG can compliment enemy variety: https://forums.warfr...-enemy-variety/ How to improve the armor in the game (mechanics): https://forums.warfr...game-mechanics/ How to make Dark Sectors more competitive: https://forums.warfr...ail-placements/ .:DISCLAIMER: Any one of my "How to" posts is a mere suggestion based on personal opinion as to how DE can change certain things :. Hey guys, Today I want to talk about making killing the enemies more satisfactory. The numbers are nice but the visuals just aren't there for me, it does include gore however gore isn't the only thing in 2014 that can make destruction more awesome. I'll talk through it by damage type, elementals and enemy type. Damage types Each individual damage type should do something really cool, slash is already 60% there but not quite (gore.) Slash Here really just more varieties as well as showing the slashes themselves on the enemies body if they don't have armor. -This applies for Corpus Crewmen and all of the Infested. Impact Impact damage should dent the armor, lower damage will make smaller dents and bigger damage will crush the insides of the target through the armor. Parts of the helmet can be dented in too -This applies for all Grineer wearing armor, all Corpus robots and possibly some bosses Puncture Actual holes and deep punctures can appear. You could see a piece of armor with holes (not dents) in it after being shot and whatnot. What this also means is that if you shoot a puncture damage dealing rifle at a Grineer's leg it could come right off. -This applies for all armor wearing enemies, Corpus' helmets included Elementals So this is a longer list but if an enemy dies from a certain element it should show that element consummate the target: Heat-Fire eats up the target turning it into ashes Cold-Target partly freezes and that breaks off Toxin-(quite a hard one, to be different from viral and corrosive) Target could fall down choking and releasing gas and spores Electric-This element already has pretty much everything, target shaking and falling to the ground. Blast-Certain parts of armor and whatnot can explode off (small) Corrosive-Similar to Saryn's effect, centre body melting Gas-This could actually release gas from different parts of the body as the target dies Magnetic-The target's mains get compressed one upon another. Like a mini vortex stuck in them Radiation-The target's head (or CPU for robots) could explode with a bubbly/melting effect. Viral-Spores could erupt from the inside of the target upon death. All If channeling, they should use channeling color for the effect-suggested by nintega Specific Enemy Types Grineer (+Crewmen) The Grineer used to have some really cool gore but somewhere last year it dropped. You could cut them in half, you could see their spine and whatnot and that was really awesome. Each line represents a possible cut: Green-What we have now Purple-What we had before Red-What we should have (includes purple) As you can see it would be more awesome if you could actually dismember enemies really well rather than the occasional and boring cutting them in two at the waist. Infested These guys are extremely disappointing. Nothing happens when they die unless your weapon bolts them to some place or sends them flying. The infested could be more disgusting, have guts flying out and some weird liquids and whatnot :/ Robots Overall robots should be broken and cracked and ripped apart (as seen in Salad V's trailer with Rhino). I want to rip a MOA apart and show it who's boss! >:D Drones Instead of exploding into nothing it would be nice if they break into smaller pieces at the explosion and fall to the ground. Quite simple really :/ Honorable mentions: Hammers-Should literary crush an enemy, flatten him Daggers-(mostly for single ones to make them feel better) make it look like they actually made a hole in the enemy Warframe abilities-I already mentioned this 9 months ago but once more won't hurt. Our abilities should also apply some cool death sequences such as the elemental ones above Sound-Enemies should be screaming (when they can) Effects-More blood please, I would love to see blood actually pouring out (like when you slit their throat) or just dripping Ragdoll Ragdoll should be brought back with a very nice balance to animations. To just provide a more dynamic variety. As suggested by many people, I think ragdoll should occur 6-7/10 and animations 4-3/10 depending. The reason why ragdoll is great is because it is dynamic and it is affected by the environment and weapon used a lot. The distance travelled by target and occurrence of ragdoll could depend on weapon used and amount of damage. Notes <|>This is all visual <|>Some things may or may not already exist, worth mentioning though <|>Most animations should be quick as to not to completely block the view <|>The game is satisfactory when killing enemies right now due to the sheer numbers, this could give it a nice boost <|>For those worried about animations: Mostly agree, but I do think the biggest problem is the over reliance on animations over dynamic ragdolls. Every single dude I shoot with a non slash weapon raises his arms in the air and falls to his knees (in synch if I use punch-through). I remember when the Boar used to fling every enemy on death, so much more satisfying than canned animations. Bring back ragdolls for most kills, animations can stay but they should be rare enough that they don't become boring to see. The animations I suggested would literary be 1-2 seconds short. What do you guys think? Thanks! Edited September 13, 2014 by noveltyhero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egg_Chen Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 (edited) Mostly agree, but I do think the biggest problem is the over reliance on animations over dynamic ragdolls. Every single dude I shoot with a non slash weapon raises his arms in the air and falls to his knees (in synch if I use punch-through). I remember when the Boar used to fling every enemy on death, so much more satisfying than canned animations. Bring back ragdolls for most kills, animations can stay but they should be rare enough that they don't become boring to see. Edited September 13, 2014 by Egg_Chen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noveltyhero Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 Mostly agree, but I do think the biggest problem is the over reliance on animations over dynamic ragdolls. Every single dude I shoot with a non slash weapon raises his arms in the air and falls to his knees (in synch if I use punch-through). I remember when the Boar used to fling every enemy on death, so much more satisfying than canned animations. Bring back ragdolls for most kills, animations can stay but they should be rare enough that they don't become boring to see. The animations I suggested would literary be 1/2 seconds short. I hate those slow motion falling Grineer too XD But point taken :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egg_Chen Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Yeah, they had a nice balance once of ragdolls and animations, a few updates ago. Your ideas sound good, I would just suggest that they are used to compliment a reintroduction of more ragdolling. I think the key is variety, animations are fine if there are enough of them. The minute you see two guys doing the exact same animation though, the illusion is broken (for me anyway). I have been playing Shadow Warrior again, and really enjoy the feedback of where exactly you slice and dice being apparent. It is not really dynamic, instead having specific points like your diagram, but it still feels good. +1 anyway, lets hope this gets some attention. I raised it before some months ago, I just wonder if the ragdolling removal was due to network traffic or something :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WiiConquered Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Mostly agree, but I do think the biggest problem is the over reliance on animations over dynamic ragdolls. Every single dude I shoot with a non slash weapon raises his arms in the air and falls to his knees (in synch if I use punch-through). I remember when the Boar used to fling every enemy on death, so much more satisfying than canned animations. Bring back ragdolls for most kills, animations can stay but they should be rare enough that they don't become boring to see. I agree, but I would limit what weapons would cause ragdolls. I would probably say shotguns, hammers, staves, hands&feet, and explosive weapons. I would also extend it to blast damage deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketec Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 deaths and effects of attacks are indeed extremely disappointing. It's as if the weapons - especially melee does no damage. Besides numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noveltyhero Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 Yeah, they had a nice balance once of ragdolls and animations, a few updates ago. Your ideas sound good, I would just suggest that they are used to compliment a reintroduction of more ragdolling. I think the key is variety, animations are fine if there are enough of them. The minute you see two guys doing the exact same animation though, the illusion is broken (for me anyway). I have been playing Shadow Warrior again, and really enjoy the feedback of where exactly you slice and dice being apparent. It is not really dynamic, instead having specific points like your diagram, but it still feels good. +1 anyway, lets hope this gets some attention. I raised it before some months ago, I just wonder if the ragdolling removal was due to network traffic or something :( Shadow Warrior is so good :D Dynamic cut ups are possible except they aren't easy to make and require the engine to support it well (so it is optimized) and most models and rigs to be re-tweaked which wouldn't be very easy when dealing with animations too (AFAIK). I agree, but I would limit what weapons would cause ragdolls. I would probably say shotguns, hammers, staves, hands&feet, and explosive weapons. I would also extend it to blast damage deaths. All weapons should do it, it gives them some kick behind it. Of course the strength of ragdoll and occurrence could be dependent on weapon type. +Editing OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nintega Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 I actually had some similar thoughts, death animations based on damage type, though my ideas were just about Channeling. Like, when channeling, and you kill the enemy, instead of the generic disintegration you get now, it's based on either the proc that killed them (if any) or the strongest damage type on the weapon, or perhaps make it how procs are considered now, with all damage types on the weapon (except ignore the weaker phys types), combined with the energy effects we get now. If it's a Slash weapon, there's a big, pronounced cut that severs the enemy in two, and the two pieces disintegrate (I know that happens now, but adding some effect for the actual slashing, like a line of light representing the way the enemy was cut, is mainly what I'd like to see). For Impact, there's some kind of explosion of energy on the impact point, leaving some kind of crater on the enemy's body, like a meteor. For Puncture, something similar to Impact, except the energy comes out thinner, and on the opposite side of the enemy, as if a laser beam pierced through them. For the elementals, I agree with most of what you suggested, except if channeling, it should follow the energy color you use. Burning up into blue fire, electrocuted with pink lightning effects, melting into black ooze from corrosion (hell, they could just take the effects from Miasma, same element even). But yeah, enemy deaths are very unsatisfying at the moment, lots of room for improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketec Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 I agree, but I would limit what weapons would cause ragdolls. I would probably say shotguns, hammers, staves, hands&feet, and explosive weapons. I would also extend it to blast damage deaths. rag dolling could depend of some " bullet" or explosion value - also if its impact or slash or puncture etc. So sometimes you may just see enemy falling backwards - and not flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahadaya Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 I think +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WiiConquered Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 All weapons should do it, it gives them some kick behind it. Of course the strength of ragdoll and occurrence could be dependent on weapon type. I don't know about all weapons (especially melee) ragdolling. It would be weird to see a dagger make an enemy fly backwards (even if it was only a short distance), and disappointing if it only caused them to fall backward. So for some weapons, I think animation improvements like what you outlined would be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noveltyhero Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 I don't know about all weapons (especially melee) ragdolling. It would be weird to see a dagger make an enemy fly backwards (even if it was only a short distance), and disappointing if it only caused them to fall backward. So for some weapons, I think animation improvements like what you outlined would be enough. Actually melee daggers sometimes do cause ragdolling, the initial first stab causes them to collapse on their own. So even there it works :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnat6 Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 I don't really want to see more blood but I agree that matching the death animations to the weapon that killed them would make killing enemies much more satisfying. Also since you mentioned high puncture weapons blowing a enemy's leg off I thought I should mention that there actually is an animation for that that I have only seen once before that got removed with damage 2.0 where the leg would go flying off and the enemy would fall to the floor clutching the stump of his leg and roll around on the floor screaming for somewhere around 20 seconds I would love to have that added back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noveltyhero Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 I don't really want to see more blood but I agree that matching the death animations to the weapon that killed them would make killing enemies much more satisfying. Also since you mentioned high puncture weapons blowing a enemy's leg off I thought I should mention that there actually is an animation for that that I have only seen once before that got removed with damage 2.0 where the leg would go flying off and the enemy would fall to the floor clutching the stump of his leg and roll around on the floor screaming for somewhere around 20 seconds I would love to have that added back in. Haha, amount of blood should be an option, with an extra option tagged as "Ridiculous" :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eudamon Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Haha, amount of blood should be an option, with an extra option tagged as "Ridiculous" :D I agree. Both with the option, and the amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnat6 Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Haha, amount of blood should be an option, with an extra option tagged as "Ridiculous" :D Well as long as it is optional you could have so much blood that the grineer start drowning in it for all I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noveltyhero Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 I agree. Both with the option, and the amount. Well as long as it is optional you could have so much blood that the grineer start drowning in it for all I care. That's how it was back in the day ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknow99 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Oh yesyesyes pleaaase! I thought I was the only one seeing that this went downhill after melee 1.0! +1. We need Parkour 2.0. We need Stealth 2.0. We need Gore/Ragdoll 2.0... Edited September 30, 2014 by unknow99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerusKI Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Wasnt it possible once to shoot off the Head? I remember something like that with Boltor back then...but i could be wrong. But i like the idea, more gore is fun^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noveltyhero Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Wasnt it possible once to shoot off the Head? I remember something like that with Boltor back then...but i could be wrong. But i like the idea, more gore is fun^^ I don't remember this but I do remember some insane dismemberments :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknow99 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) The fact that charge attacks gave guaranteed dismemberments is also to be taken into account... (...Yes,I'd want them back. But without the spam-friendly way.) Edited October 1, 2014 by unknow99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now