How To Line Of Sight. (Los Feedback)

[noveltyhero]

How tos:

How to improve Kubrows:https://forums.warfr...mprove-kubrows/

How to "leak" more lore:https://forums.warfr...leak-more-lore/

How to fix melee combat: https://forums.warfr...x-melee-combat/

How to make Phorid a Beast: https://forums.warfr...orid-a-beast-d/

How to easily break down language barriers: https://forums.warfr...guage-barriers/

How to fix difficulty problems: https://forums.warfr...culty-problems/

How to control our Kubrows: https://forums.warfr...ol-our-kubrows/

How to rush (a new game mode suggestion): https://forums.warfr...ode-suggestion/

How to fix disruption auras once and for all: https://forums.warfr...ce-and-for-all/

How to visually improve Zephyr: https://forums.warfr...improve-zephyr/

How to improve the survival gamemode: https://forums.warfr...vival-gamemode/

How to improve the quests, goals and the system: https://forums.warfr...and-the-system/

How to improve platinum purchases?: https://forums.warfr...inum-purchases/

How to further improve the UI and management: https://forums.warfr...and-management/

How to spray and not pray (spray patterns suggestion): https://forums.warfr...rns-suggestion/

How RNG can compliment enemy variety: https://forums.warfr...-enemy-variety/

How to improve the armor in the game (mechanics): https://forums.warfr...game-mechanics/

How to make Dark Sectors more competitive: https://forums.warfr...ail-placements/

How to make enemies more satisfying to kill (+gore): https://forums.warfr...g-to-kill-gore/

 

.:DISCLAIMER: Any one of my "How to" posts is a mere suggestion based on personal opinion as to how DE can change certain things :.

 

 

 

Hey there,

 

I am sure most of you are aware of the changes that hit Excalibur a while back. That was some testing done with "Line of Sight" and has been rolled back due to over cries from the community. Now that doesn't mean LoS is not coming at all, it just means that it has been delayed until it is a fully fleshed out system.

 

I want to display my ideas that if they are going to do it, might as well do it right so it makes sense rather than just being an annoyance.

 

 

Enemies

Our enemies should rely on line of sight way more. Say I go around a corner crouched behind this box, no enemy could see me get there however they all seem to know where I am.

 

This would make sense if they had sensors around, if I started shooting or something not out of pure "Player C entered tile, his position is X,Y,Z." basic AI computing.

 

The AI need to be able to see us before they can shoot at us with 110% perfect accuracy.

 

Here is how it should work:

-Enemy A sees you

-Enemy B. C and D will see you too after 1.5 seconds (unless you are in front of them), due to the amount of time it takes to communicate

-All enemies will now see you in a more logical chain of events

 

When talking about AI, sound is important too but that is part of another discussion.

 

 

Obstacles

The enemies should not be able to see you behind certain things:

I should theoretically be able to hide behind that waterfall if an enemy has not seen me go to it, however I can't.

 

Above is the place where smoke usually is (sorry no screenshots of that). Now, a lot of the time with the smoke, I see 3 rockets come out of it and 2 sniper bullets taking my shield down. What can I do? Nothing had no idea that behind the smoke were enemies but they knew I was in their line of fire.

 

 

 

Not sure what else to talk about for now, but feedback is appreciated.

What do you think?

Thanks!

[HalotroopermanX7]

+1, I understand what you're saying... but perhaps they have sophisticated technology implanted into their visors/helmets that allows them to see through the elements? (I read a long time ago that Clone Trooper visors allowed them to see through even the worst conditions: Example: Huge freaking blizzard storm... or Geonosis sands flying into the air.)

[R34LM]

Not to mention when you come out of cover or invis, they usually have hyperspeed in getting a lock-on.

[noveltyhero]

+1, I understand what you're saying... but perhaps they have sophisticated technology implanted into their visors/helmets that allows them to see through the elements? (I read a long time ago that Clone Trooper visors allowed them to see through even the worst conditions: Example: Huge freaking blizzard storm... or Geonosis sands flying into the air.)

Now see, that I wouldn't mind. IF not all enemies had it, only specials and I knew who. That involves skill and a learning curve because if you come out of cover or put yourself in a bad situation and die you will know why and how to improve next time: kill the guy who has wall hacks ;)

 

 

Not to mention when you come out of cover or invis, they usually have hyperspeed in getting a lock-on.

I plan on adding an "abilities" section, but have not discovered enough abilities for that, Radial Blind, Invisibility and Smoke Bomb anything else?

 

Thanks guys

[R34LM]

I plan on adding an "abilities" section, but have not discovered enough abilities for that, Radial Blind, Invisibility and Smoke Bomb anything else?

 

Anything that takes away the ability for the enemy to target you. Mind control and chaos can apply.

[Taranis49]

+1, I understand what you're saying... but perhaps they have sophisticated technology implanted into their visors/helmets that allows them to see through the elements? (I read a long time ago that Clone Trooper visors allowed them to see through even the worst conditions: Example: Huge freaking blizzard storm... or Geonosis sands flying into the air.)

 

Problem with that is that logically it'd have to work both ways. Look at the frame helmets themselves, particularly those on Excal or Nova for example; the faceplate's a solid opaque piece that would require advanced sensors to provide any function - the user wouldn't be able to see at all otherwise. If Tenno can clearly see and process images through their own faceplates, it's horribly inconsistent and nonsensical that the same technology doesn't let them see through smoke. :-P

 

It's why I find it kinda immersion-breaking that they resort to using flashlights in dark areas too. Nevermind that image-intensification isn't exactly new even by real-world standards, it gives away their position.

[Marthrym]

Problem with that is that logically it'd have to work both ways. Look at the frame helmets themselves, particularly those on Excal or Nova for example; the faceplate's a solid opaque piece that would require advanced sensors to provide any function - the user wouldn't be able to see at all otherwise. If Tenno can clearly see and process images through their own faceplates, it's horribly inconsistent and nonsensical that the same technology doesn't let them see through smoke. :-P

 

It's why I find it kinda immersion-breaking that they resort to using flashlights in dark areas too. Nevermind that image-intensification isn't exactly new even by real-world standards, it gives away their position.

You didn't know? Tenno don't have eyes.

[taiiat]

Now see, that I wouldn't mind. IF not all enemies had it, only specials and I knew who.

Ballista's, Sniper Crewman, Leapers, Grineer Commanders, Orbital Strike Drones, Railgun MOA's, Elite Crewman (maybe), Scavenger Drones, Leech Ospreys, Lobber & Electric Crawlers.

 

oh, and Bosses & such ofcourse.

 

 

boom. i just made so many Enemy Types a little more unique.

Edited September 15, 2014 by taiiat

[Taranis49]

You didn't know? Tenno don't have eyes.

 

Only according to Salad. :-P

 

And that only reinforces my point, no eyes kinda necessitates needing some form of advanced sensor to you know, see - also makes it even sillier that Tenno feel the need to use flashlights. ;-)

[DSpite]

.:DISCLAIMER: Any one of my "How to" posts is a mere suggestion based on personal opinion as to how DE can change certain things :.

 

 

 

Hey there,

 

I am sure most of you are aware of the changes that hit Excalibur a while back. That was some testing done with "Line of Sight" and has been rolled back due to over cries from the community. Now that doesn't mean LoS is not coming at all, it just means that it has been delayed until it is a fully fleshed out system.

 

I want to display my ideas that if they are going to do it, might as well do it right so it makes sense rather than just being an annoyance.

 

 

Enemies

Our enemies should rely on line of sight way more. Say I go around a corner crouched behind this box, no enemy could see me get there however they all seem to know where I am.

 

This would make sense if they had sensors around, if I started shooting or something not out of pure "Player C entered tile, his position is X,Y,Z." basic AI computing.

 

The AI need to be able to see us before they can shoot at us with 110% perfect accuracy.

 

Here is how it should work:

-Enemy A sees you

-Enemy B. C and D will see you too after 1.5 seconds (unless you are in front of them), due to the amount of time it takes to communicate

-All enemies will now see you in a more logical chain of events

 

When talking about AI, sound is important too but that is part of another discussion.

 

 

 

There is basically no way to implement what you ask without actually making the AI more stupid.

 

If I am on a commlink with everyone else, once you are spotted in ANY way, everyone will basically deduce with a degree of accuracy where you are on a map, based on where you were last, and where you are not. We do this constantly. If you want to be able to play peek-a-boo behind a watefall and slaughter enemies even easier, you are dreaming.

 

And if you want to keep "immersion", we have Enemy Aura, they simply have an equivalent.

 

The Lotus constantly tells us "you are now on sensors", it's good enough for me.

Edited September 15, 2014 by DSpite

[noveltyhero]

There is basically no way to implement what you ask without actually making the AI more stupid.

 

If I am on a commlink with everyone else, once you are spotted in ANY way, everyone will basically deduce with a degree of accuracy where you are on a map, based on where you were last, and where you are not. We do this constantly. If you want to be able to play peek-a-boo behind a watefall and slaughter enemies even easier, you are dreaming.

 

And if you want to keep "immersion", we have Enemy Aura, they simply have an equivalent.

 

The Lotus constantly tells us "you are now on sensors", it's good enough for me.

What? No, I am simply suggesting that line of sight of effects and various bits and pieces actually has an effect. As it stands you can stand behind black 10m radius smoke and enemies will be able to shoot you ignoring that smoke whilst we can't.

 

The waterfall was just an example of places I should potentially be allowed to hide behind if I am going stealthy, right now you cannot do that which is the immersion breaker.

[Vastaren]

There is basically no way to implement what you ask without actually making the AI more stupid.

I don't fully agree on how making the AI less able to pinpoint player position to a ridiculous degree of accuracy means making it more stupid in that sense of the word. If anything, it would make the AI less so because then we'd start to actually fight enemies we can respond to, not aimbots, which is the tone I got from the OP. Would changing view mechanics necessarily be a reduction of AI intelligence?

Neither do I place much stock in working towards 'enemy-player equivalence'. They might have Enemy Radar, but the point isn't for enemies and Tenno to be equivalent.

 

Out of all the things I'd like to see enemies in Warframe do better, this and other small, progressive changes would be a nice place to start :)

[RyouichiKitsune]

i DEFFINATELY plus 1 this idea.

the stealth should be more of that like it is in sniper elite v3. if you shoot..they kinda know where you are. if you shoot more then once they KNOW where you are and swarm you. BUT you can run far away and they only know where you WERE.

i feel this would GREATLY help stealth missions. and make it seem more realistic.

as for the tenno having no eyes. i always guessed it was like an ironman type interface on the inside of the suit. with a screen producing images hooked to the brain. ect ect.