No Two Mods Are Created Alike... Until Now

[TeliaRS643]

So, yeah.  New event!  New modpack!  Neat stuff.  Excitement.  Joy.  Rapture.  Fun.  Something else to consider in builds.  I...

... Wait.  +% to Slash?  No Status?  No... anything else?  Don't we -have- something for that already?

I actually remember tilting the mod card a little bit when I first saw it to see if I could flip it over and get the rest of the information on it.  But... nope.  It's just that.  More slash damage to the weapon.  Now, don't get me wrong - I was hoping to be able to play with physical damage more than just piling on elemental in yet another corrosive combination over and over, but... I honestly expected it to come in the form of fixing the non-functional physical damage mods that already -exist.-  And yes, I know, they actually apply what they say on the tin, but does anyone -ever- really use those mods if they have the option for elementals instead?  They don't work.  They're weak.  They're not-an-option.  They needed help... not a nail in the coffin.

'Oh boy Telia.  Be grateful you actually get physical damage mods that're worth something.'  Hahah-NO.  No.  Just... y'wanna know why?  This is different.  Because up until this point, no two mods are for the -exact- same purpose.  At least, none immediately coming to mind.  I guess you can argue primed/charged chamber, but that's like, a 1-weapon mod.  Not a -every-slash-weapon-known-to-tenno- mod.  Not to mention that most of these event mods are expeted to be eventual drops for future content in the future, and primed chamber isn't.  The point is, for the first time, we have redundant mods.  And not even the great kind of redundancy, it's the 'we could've made bad stuff better and given you something new to play with at the same time, but didn't' kinda redundancy.  There's a lot of mods that have similar stats, but are either for different weapons or have a second stat involved, but these mods are exactly alike -in purpose-.  They're meant to increase slash damage.

And you can go 'dohohoho but Sawtooth Clip is the newbie version of the new slash damage mods' and I say to you sir or madam - no.  No it is not.  You know what's a new player version of those mods?  Damaged.  Damaged mods are supposed to allow the player to have something to start with, something easy, something so that when they get the normal version of those mods, they feel a sense of progression.  So, essentially, DE has made Sawtooth Clip and other slash mods - even the 90% slash damage melee mod that's near-impossible to get because of nested RNG - damaged in comparison, with the only difference from -actual- damaged mods is being able to stack them on the same weapon.  But honestly, if the initial mods are so underpowered in comparison (The measly 30% of sawtooth clip in comparison to the new 120%) why would you?  It's not worth the mod slot.

Suggestion for fix?  Fix the old mods.  Make the physical damage types 120% across the board for the old physical mods if this is where you're going to place physical damage mods  Make the new slash mods 90/60 slash/status so people can play and test physical status effects better and be balanaced with the 60/60 elemental/status mods.  AS redundant as the mods are now, it's just missed potential.

[Archistopheles]

I'd prefer +Slash damage and +Ammo Pool, or Slash and Reload Speed, or Slash and Attack Speed. We have enough status mods at this point.

[TrashSpider]

I'd prefer +Slash damage and +Ammo Pool, or Slash and Reload Speed, or Slash and Attack Speed. We have enough status mods at this point.

Yea I was actually hoping we were getting another dual mod type. 

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

I dont see anythign wrong with the mods. Increasing those stats helps to increase all elemental damage as well, in my experience. I put Concussion on my AkBronco Prime, and it game me like 300 additional damage, which gave the elemental damage a bonus by a lot too.

[VKhaun]

All I can come up with is that they're a different polarity, and we just saw polarities given names. DE_Steve has said in a few videos now that they'll be expanding lore by explaining polarities...

 

In the future a new player will probably be able to get mods from these factions. Maybe one is pure damage, 120% physicals and 90% elementals. One is Damage/Status. Another is Damage/Utility like Wildfire and Ice Storm and only gives the weaker physical ones. Something like that. Maybe not as nice and neat as that, D seems to own pure ice damage which wouldn't fit... but nitpicking aside I think that's the general direciton.

 

In that scenario, depending upon how progression works, a new player would go from damaged -> focusing on a faction -> Get good mods and bad mods from that faction -> then try to go to other factions to get the best stuff from there. The bad mods for any given faction would be your next stepping stone up from those damaged mods. The old physicals might fit in there if they're from a faction with really powerful mods for something else.

[Rexlars]

You forgot about Jagged Edge. The melee one. 

 

Didn't read the entire thing the 1st time. Nvm. 

Edited September 18, 2014 by Rexlars

[koolen]

non elemental damages are actually useless on most weapons, first because the mods bonuses apply to only a part of the dmges ( eg if slash is 50/100 dmg, a 100% slash mod will give 50 bonus, and a 100% elemental will give 100), also proc given by these physical dmgs are underpowered and useless.

And the bonus multiplier given by these dmg is lower compared with the elements ( eg 25% usually for physical, and 75% usually for elemental)

Sooooooo physical dmg are useless

[Rydian]

I dont see anythign wrong with the mods. Increasing those stats helps to increase all elemental damage as well, in my experience. I put Concussion on my AkBronco Prime, and it game me like 300 additional damage, which gave the elemental damage a bonus by a lot too.

False.

 

 

 

Physical damage mods do not increase base damage, nor do they touch elemental damage.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Rydian

[TeliaRS643]

All I can come up with is that they're a different polarity, and we just saw polarities given names. DE_Steve has said in a few videos now that they'll be expanding lore by explaining polarities...

 

In the future a new player will probably be able to get mods from these factions. Maybe one is pure damage, 120% physicals and 90% elementals. One is Damage/Status. Another is Damage/Utility like Wildfire and Ice Storm and only gives the weaker physical ones. Something like that. Maybe not as nice and neat as that, D seems to own pure ice damage which wouldn't fit... but nitpicking aside I think that's the general direciton.

 

In that scenario, depending upon how progression works, a new player would go from damaged -> focusing on a faction -> Get good mods and bad mods from that faction -> then try to go to other factions to get the best stuff from there. The bad mods for any given faction would be your next stepping stone up from those damaged mods. The old physicals might fit in there if they're from a faction with really powerful mods for something else.

If that's the case then DE needs to be doing some serious printing of mods faster than a 4-per-event basis.  Not to mention fixing of the RNG because of the already-diluted mod pool.  Hype be damned, I want balance.

 

I dont see anythign wrong with the mods. Increasing those stats helps to increase all elemental damage as well, in my experience. I put Concussion on my AkBronco Prime, and it game me like 300 additional damage, which gave the elemental damage a bonus by a lot too.

That is false.  Increasing physical damage does not increase base damage for the purposes of increasing elemental damage.  Common misconception.

[gnat6]

Suggestion for fix?  Fix the old mods.  Make the physical damage types 120% across the board for the old physical mods if this is where you're going to place physical damage mods  Make the new slash mods 90/60 slash/status so people can play and test physical status effects better and be balanaced with the 60/60 elemental/status mods.  AS redundant as the mods are now, it's just missed potential.

This^ creating a new mod set that does the exact same thing as a existing mod set makes no sense from any angle.

 

I'd prefer +Slash damage and +Ammo Pool, or Slash and Reload Speed, or Slash and Attack Speed. We have enough status mods at this point.

Why not both its not like there is a rule that says that there can only be one dual stat mod that increases slash damage.

 

All I can come up with is that they're a different polarity, and we just saw polarities given names. DE_Steve has said in a few videos now that they'll be expanding lore by explaining polarities...

 

If DE is creating redundant mods for the sake of lore then that lore is terrible and should be reworked.

 

In the future a new player will probably be able to get mods from these factions. Maybe one is pure damage, 120% physicals and 90% elementals. One is Damage/Status. Another is Damage/Utility like Wildfire and Ice Storm and only gives the weaker physical ones. Something like that. Maybe not as nice and neat as that, D seems to own pure ice damage which wouldn't fit... but nitpicking aside I think that's the general direciton.

That actually sounds like a good idea but that's not what DE is doing or there would be more than just slash damage on the new mods if they had been a weaker version of the base damage mods + slash damage like their names make it sound like they should be* I doubt anyone would be complaining.

 

*at least for the rifle mod I already forgot what the others are called.

[TeliaRS643]

Honestly, here's an idea for a dualstat mod.  Slash plus proc-lock.  Only see Slash procs with this mod equipped.  I'm not talking setting proc chance to 100%, I'm saying remove other elements/physical damage types from the proc table without reducing the status chance.  Hell, it could be sawtooth-clip strength with a proc-lock and I'd use it.

Edited September 18, 2014 by TeliaRS643

[TittySergal]

Yes please for proc-lock. :o

[Seanjuju]

Maybe its time to clean up some of the damage 2.0 collateral.

[SeargantHaztagazpacho]

I -like- how you -talk- like -this-...

[Xana_Skullsunder]

DE, Pleeeeeeeeeaaase do something about the I/P/S mods. They're not worth it. I know you locked the other topic for being "nonconstructive", but they were on the right track when they called the mods band-aids.

 

If this is part of some grand vision, fine, but kindly explain that.

[Arabaxus]

I'd prefer +Slash damage and +Ammo Pool, or Slash and Reload Speed, or Slash and Attack Speed. We have enough status mods at this point.

 

Attack speed = Fire Rate?

[GTG3000]

I dont see anythign wrong with the mods. Increasing those stats helps to increase all elemental damage as well, in my experience. I put Concussion on my AkBronco Prime, and it game me like 300 additional damage, which gave the elemental damage a bonus by a lot too.

 

It actually doesn't work that way, unless they went ahead and fixed it for this update. Last I checked, the physical damage mods we had had no effect on elemental damage.

[elfkinn]

These mods are great have any of you put them on dread, and what they do is increase your chance of hitting slash as a status effect by increasing the amount of slash damage, they also go great on dakra p and D nikana.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

False.

 

 

 

Physical damage mods do not increase base damage, nor do they touch elemental damage.

 

I think changing that would be half of the way to fixing physical damage mods.

[xkillo32]

I'd prefer +Slash damage and +Ammo Pool, or Slash and Reload Speed, or Slash and Attack Speed. We have enough status mods at this point.

but it gives more damage as opposed to the other dual stat mods that gave less elemental dmg

Edited September 19, 2014 by xkillo32

[TeliaRS643]

These mods are great have any of you put them on dread, and what they do is increase your chance of hitting slash as a status effect by increasing the amount of slash damage, they also go great on dakra p and D nikana.

I'm not questioning how great they are, I'm questioning how they're at all constructive to the game as it is.  They pretty much eliminate the need for Sawtooth Clip/Jagged Edge/other slash mods that I don't remember the names of because they're pretty much never used because they're generally not worth it.  Please stay on topic.

 

I -like- how you -talk- like -this-...

Because I -keep- forgetting about the -bold- options!

[HollowExistence]

Just allow these mods to count into base damage and as such affect the elemental damage

[TwiceDead]

OP is right on all levels. 

The introduction of these mods is like DE found a bottomless pit inside of the bottomless pit they were already dwelling in. 

[TeliaRS643]

OP is right on all levels. 

The introduction of these mods is like DE found a bottomless pit inside of the bottomless pit they were already dwelling in. 

It definitely isn't the first time the topic of mod imbalances has come up.  Yet it's always 'hype' and the next 'big thing' to come out getting pretty much all the priority.  I don't think that it would take a tremendous effort to actually apply balances to mods every once in a while.  I mean, that's one of the primary purposes of a beta.  Thing is that the community is big enough to the point that unless the entire community as a whole is -screaming- for it, it just plain isn't going to happen.