Gate Crash: Not Worth The Time Nor Effort

[Runabou]

DE, with all due respect, the games you've made in the past have been splendid. You have a talented staff.

But with the brown-nosing aside, you need to stop making the same stupid crap for events. Nobody wants a farm-fest with an extremely aggravating process to go through. NOBODY. You implemented a quest script, use what you made instead of delivering the same nonsensical grind missions that nobody likes.

While I appreciate that you deliver something that gives us background story and rewards, it gets tiresome after months of the same nonsense that's been delivered time and time again. As a couple other uses have put it, it burns us out.

It absolutely kills the will to play.

You guys try hard, and deliver new content, I'm thankful of this, yes, but when it feels like all we do is do it over, and over, and over, and over again it is nothing but pure tedium.


Please take my feedback seriously: Next time let the community decide what to put in, from frames, to events, to everything. Not just the design council's minor feedback. There are plenty of good ideas being ignored.
This event was not a good idea.

Thank you.

Any negative responses in regards to my feedback will be ignored entirely. Any debunking statements will be ignored. I don't care if you agree or disagree.

Short points:
•This event was annoying on the account of literally killing off abilities and the like, rendering you absolutely useless by the end of Ceres.
•The grinding is all the community does, and it isn't all that rewarding for the massive amounts of effort put in.
•The community needs greater say in missions, events, and so on.

[xethier]

I agree with you.

 

but i've been having a blast after finishing the event, going back to earth and running with others.

instead of actually doing the event, i've just been hunting caches for keys.

haven't had this much fun in ages.

 

that said, i'd really appreciate seeing new quests instead of the same grinding trope.

 

p.s. if you just want to vent your spleen @ DE, then message them directly. if you post on the forums, you're exposing yourself to feedback that may disagree with you. your stated "will ignore X" is just asking for it.

[Anatolius]

I dunno I kinda liked the event

it was nothing to write home about in response to how it played out (kill some dudes, get key, run back)

 

But the idea of being weakened with each additional mission was something I enjoyed

I also liked finding the caches, the little side objectives for keys

It it something I wish that DE would implement throughout the game because it rewards/encourages exploration over "just get it done"

Because right now there is 0% incentive to trail off and do anything else

 

It didnt feel like I was grinding for anything though it didnt bring anything extremely new to the table, it opened up an idea that could be used in the future.

But to each their own

 

(Look im disagreeing!)

[PandemicLegions]

If you don't like the event, there's a pretty simple solution: don't play it.

 

It's not like it prohibits you from regular missions/alerts/DS during the 5 or so days that the event is on. The game isn't rendered unplayable during an event, so how does it kill the will to play?

Edited September 22, 2014 by PandemicLegions

[VKhaun]

What the hell?

 

Is there a new event that started tonight while I was at work? The one from last Wednesday is only 15 runs with a constantly escalating debuff keeping it interesting, to get an OP mod for every weapon type and a free new weapon with catalyst.

 

This post is mind boggling.

Edited September 22, 2014 by VKhaun

[Brynslustafir]

I agree with you.

 

but i've been having a blast after finishing the event, going back to earth and running with others.

instead of actually doing the event, i've just been hunting caches for keys.

haven't had this much fun in ages.

 

that said, i'd really appreciate seeing new quests instead of the same grinding trope.

 

p.s. if you just want to vent your spleen @ DE, then message them directly. if you post on the forums, you're exposing yourself to feedback that may disagree with you. your stated "will ignore X" is just asking for it.

I started having fun after the event... because I didn't have to play the event anymore. 

If you don't like the event, there's a pretty simple solution: don't play it.

 

It's not like it prohibits you from regular missions/alerts/DS during the 5 or so days that the event is on. The game isn't rendered unplayable during an event, so how does it kill the will to play?

By being tiresome and overly repetative.

[armedpoop]

What the hell?

 

Is there a new event that started tonight while I was at work? The one from last Wednesday is only 15 runs with a constantly escalating debuff keeping it interesting, to get an OP mod for every weapon type and a free new weapon with catalyst.

 

This post is mind boggling.

Gimping you and making your mods pointless is not interesting. Not at all.

[7grims]

DE as made events more common lately, making more unique events might take them much more time, so they do these ones and they reward you also.

[DSpite]

I would rather have events like Gate Crash then no event at all. An extra weapon slot worth 6 Plat for a few mission runs was worth every cent - oh wait, it was free - so even better.

 

It's possible that I might see an Event one day I might not run, but it would be because of the combination of "don't really need the rewards" AND "have more pressing things to do", otherwise, it just involves running and shooting stuff, and I already do that in Borderlands ad nauseam.

 

If this game ever became a pay2play (ie monthly), I imagine there would be instances where I would scream at new update, but since it's free2play, I don't exactly hold my breath waiting for mega-updates to blow me away.

 

I think the current update cycle is fine. Not "stop the presses", but better then "meh". I'm not really sure why people expectations are still so high when even DE admitted that they did not expect people to put so many hours into Warframe.

[Wurdyburd]

A few points of interest:
-DE is perfectly capable of sitting down and writing out a simple quest path, stating "go to this node, then here, then lastly this node, and this is the reason why you're doing that". To instead spend resources to model new rooms and animations and so on needed for this event, only for it to turn into "Go from roomA to roomB to roomC to roomB to roomD 15 times getting weaker each time" was a little lazy. It's on par with any of the boss fights in the game, except maybe Vay Hek. How many times have we farmed Sargus Ruk for an orokin cell? Some players have entire builds dedicated to rush-farming him. And this event's core is exactly like that.

-Caches are good. I like them. I want to see them implemented into the rest of the the tilesets, to encourage exploration, to get the community to find all the secret spots that they've been hiding all over, and to discourage rushing. That said, it was ENTIRELY SEPARATE from this event. It had no bearing on it. We didn't have to find anything in the caches to succeed in the event, and they could very well have not been included at all. To declare this event "okay, I had fun" simply because you like the caches is preposterous.

-to say that "I'd rather have Gate Crash than no event at all" is equally preposterous. I myself would rather that DE spend an extra week on an event's development and deliver a fun and engaging experience than sit back and go "yeah it was stupid but it was better than nothing". Furthermore, the attitude behind accepting bad content simply because "it's better than nothing" is merely reflective that this game has no content which is worth doing solely for the grind. Were it not for events like these, we would, in fact, be doing nothing. And folks who are okay with that don't believe in Warframe's potential, or it's longevity.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Wurdyburd

[AsagiBoogers]

Gimping you and making your mods pointless is not interesting. Not at all.

 

[DSpite]

-to say that "I'd rather have Gate Crash than no event at all" is equally preposterous. I myself would rather that DE spend an extra week on an event's development and deliver a fun and engaging experience than sit back and go "yeah it was stupid but it was better than nothing".

 

If you care to re-read what I said, I stated that If I was getting "grindy" updates AND I was paying a monthy fee, there might be something to complain about. Since we don't, your demand to DE is what is "preposterous".

 

It's a free game. Play it, don't play it. Having expectations from a game you have no direct control over? Now that, is insane.

[VKhaun]

Gimping you and making your mods pointless is not interesting. Not at all.

 

 

[Otenko]

Pretty sure events like this, namely those that introduce new game modes or mechanics, are there to gauge interest and also collect feedback on how they can improve them.

 

I personally enjoy the cache hunting. It lets the players discover the care that goes into designing rooms for tilesets. I think it works both ways in that those creating the maps feel validated that people are actually experiencing the nuances in individual rooms and the players can feel rewarded that going through the trouble of finding the caches will net them a reward. It's a win-win to me.

 

People also have complained that the game is too easy. Just equip an automatic weapon, hold down your mouse button, and press 4 when the screen starts turning red. Of course that's an exaggeration, but some people feel this way.

 

In any case, DE has experimented with difficulty by way of harder-hitting swarms of enemies (Suspicious Shipments), extra environmental hazards (Breeding Ground hives), and now by actually scaling our warframes' powers down. Some people hate it, some like it. Then they post about it on the forums and that's how feedback works (no matter how vitriolic it may appear).

 

I personally think that the event (the torsion key sabotage part) is fun and the frame power scaling provides an interesting sense of difficulty that the game hasn't had before (for veterans). Although, any loss in shield can be partially mitigated by equipping a Vitality mod instead of Redirection. Just in case someone doesn't know, the event will scale down shield and shield recharge rates, but keep your health values.

 

The tactical alert with the conclave rating was similar, but I actually prefer the method used in this event. It just felt more fun to me. Kind of felt like the early days before one had big ol' Serrations and 75% power efficiency.

 

 

As for the grinding, yeah it's not the best. It could be worse, namely Gradivus's 100 invasions. But saying "it could be worse" isn't really a good maxim for feedback.

I think they picked 15 missions for this for a couple of reasons.

-To test out different tilesets using the game mode.

-To have people play enough missions so that users can make informed feedback instead of playing 2 missions and cast it off as lame.

-Also, most people hate events that take too many missions to complete (Gradivus, Arid Fear, Slingstone) and also ones that take too few missions to complete (Tethra's Doom, Survival Weekend in most cases). So I imagine they're trying to find a happy medium between "holy crap this sucked all of the time out of my weekend" and "&!$$-easy, done in one."

 

tl;dr - DE probably uses this stuff to find out what the majority likes and what they dislike. I personally liked it. The required number of missions was a little on the high side for my taste, but they're probably trying to nail down that perfect number. (I imagine 10 for objective missions like this and 4 for endless missions like Cryotic).

 

Also P.S. TC, if you didn't read this because it contains potential disagreement, can you say so in a post below letting me know? Just want to know what your tolerance is for potential disagreement (even though I thought this post was pretty neutral).

Edited September 22, 2014 by Otenko

[Wurdyburd]

If you care to re-read what I said, I stated that If I was getting "grindy" updates AND I was paying a monthy fee, there might be something to complain about. Since we don't, your demand to DE is what is "preposterous".

 

It's a free game. Play it, don't play it. Having expectations from a game you have no direct control over? Now that, is insane.

 

I dare to have expectations from a game I have no direct control over, and is free, because I use my responses as a meter for the success of the game. The forum's responses too. I personally like this game a great deal, and have had great interest in seeing where it goes. As an aspiring/junior game developer, I also use this game as a focus group, to see what are good ideas, and bad ideas, should I ever have the chance one day to deliver such a game to others, and try and make it a quality experience. This is all my personal take on it though, and can't be expected to apply to others.

 

That said: complaints about content is justified, regardless of how much "it's in beta" and "don't like it don't play the game" is tossed around. DE is currently surviving off this game. Bad choices and bad content means the players don't play, and the players don't buy things. There have been droughts of worthy content and bad design choices that have made players leave for months at a time, sometimes not returning ever. That money will be spent elsewhere.

So though I, personally, may not push any buttons in DE's creative process, if the community is unhappy, they won't spend, and Warframe will suffer. Less spending means less employees, which means less quality content, which means the game suffers further. A thousand candles burns pretty bright.

[taiiat]

hmm.

 

i saw one good point before my will to read glazed over.

 

 

why aren't we using the Quests system for this stuff?

[Tar_Spit_Fire]

Pretty sure events like this, namely those that introduce new game modes or mechanics, are there to gauge interest and also collect feedback on how they can improve them.

 

I personally enjoy the cache hunting. It lets the players discover the care that goes into designing rooms for tilesets. I think it works both ways in that those creating the maps feel validated that people are actually experiencing the nuances in individual rooms and the players can feel rewarded that going through the trouble of finding the caches will net them a reward. It's a win-win to me.

 

People also have complained that the game is too easy. Just equip an automatic weapon, hold down your mouse button, and press 4 when the screen starts turning red. Of course that's an exaggeration, but some people feel this way.

 

In any case, DE has experimented with difficulty by way of harder-hitting swarms of enemies (Suspicious Shipments), extra environmental hazards (Breeding Ground hives), and now by actually scaling our warframes' powers down. Some people hate it, some like it. Then they post about it on the forums and that's how feedback works (no matter how vitriolic it may appear).

 

I personally think that the event (the torsion key sabotage part) is fun and the frame power scaling provides an interesting sense of difficulty that the game hasn't had before (for veterans). Although, any loss in shield can be partially mitigated by equipping a Vitality mod instead of Redirection. Just in case someone doesn't know, the event will scale down shield and shield recharge rates, but keep your health values.

 

The tactical alert with the conclave rating was similar, but I actually prefer the method used in this event. It just felt more fun to me. Kind of felt like the early days before one had big ol' Serrations and 75% power efficiency.

 

 

As for the grinding, yeah it's not the best. It could be worse, namely Gradivus's 100 invasions. But saying "it could be worse" isn't really a good maxim for feedback.

I think they picked 15 missions for this for a couple of reasons.

-To test out different tilesets using the game mode.

-To have people play enough missions so that users can make informed feedback instead of playing 2 missions and cast it off as lame.

-Also, most people hate events that take too many missions to complete (Gradivus, Arid Fear, Slingstone) and also ones that take too few missions to complete (Tethra's Doom, Survival Weekend in most cases). So I imagine they're trying to find a happy medium between "holy crap this sucked all of the time out of my weekend" and "&!$$-easy, done in one."

 

tl;dr - DE probably uses this stuff to find out what the majority likes and what they dislike. I personally liked it. The required number of missions was a little on the high side for my taste, but they're probably trying to nail down that perfect number. (I imagine 10 for objective missions like this and 4 for endless missions like Cryotic).

 

Also P.S. TC, if you didn't read this because it contains potential disagreement, can you say so in a post below letting me know? Just want to know what your tolerance is for potential disagreement (even though I thought this post was pretty neutral).

the truth has spoken!!!

*but personally i don'y like this event just because i hate being weak.. *sorry im not mlg enuff*

[DSpite]

I dare to have expectations from a game I have no direct control over, and is free, because I use my responses as a meter for the success of the game. The forum's responses too. I personally like this game a great deal, and have had great interest in seeing where it goes. As an aspiring/junior game developer, I also use this game as a focus group, to see what are good ideas, and bad ideas, should I ever have the chance one day to deliver such a game to others, and try and make it a quality experience. This is all my personal take on it though, and can't be expected to apply to others.

 

That said: complaints about content is justified, regardless of how much "it's in beta" and "don't like it don't play the game" is tossed around. DE is currently surviving off this game. Bad choices and bad content means the players don't play, and the players don't buy things. There have been droughts of worthy content and bad design choices that have made players leave for months at a time, sometimes not returning ever. That money will be spent elsewhere.

So though I, personally, may not push any buttons in DE's creative process, if the community is unhappy, they won't spend, and Warframe will suffer. Less spending means less employees, which means less quality content, which means the game suffers further. A thousand candles burns pretty bright.

 

I'm going to try and be constructive here.

 

This game does not have 500+ hours worth of gameplay, and by gameplay, I don't mean "loot collecting", I mean "different things to do".

 

I have already more then that because I'm here for the shooting at things part, which matches Borderlands enough to be entertaining, with the additional fact that this game gets content injections for free. Much like Borderlands, if you don't actually enjoy shooting things non-stop, you are going to get bored really fast.

 

This is NOT an MMO, or an RPG, it's a coop shooter at the core, the fact that it might evolve into something else is irrelevant right now, because it's ONLY doing so because it is in fact popular, as again, even DE stated they did NOT build Warframe to be entertaining for more then 10-20 hours, and were surprised when it actually was.

 

Warframe is ALREADY doing better then expected.

 

For what Warframe actually has, it's fine.

 

You can have as many expectations you like. Fact is, it has already surpassed DE original expectations, and what they are doing in updates may not turn it into the next best seller, but they are NOT bad enough to warrant the amount of complaints.

[Quizel]

 

1) It absolutely kills the will to play.

2)•The grinding is all the community does, and it isn't all that rewarding for the massive amounts of effort put in.
3)•The community needs greater say in missions, events, and so on.

1) Well, I actually liked the idea of exploring OD again. It reminded me how awesome that place is. 

 

I also generally like the idea of progressive difficulty. Increasing difficulty by gimping the warframe vs scaling enemies or restricting max conclave was a better way to go about it to be honest.   It was different approach to the broken conclave system for pve content, but  it still had the same result; Weapon A will still trivialize content and if you only got Weapon B ur in for a world of pain (probably important to mention I only did the minimum of 15 pts). It's really hard to address that w/o just restricting players to moddless mk-1 braton's.

 

Furthermore, the negative feedback from this result all goes back to the fact it feels like artificial difficulty scaling. My understanding of that statement (artificial difficulty) is that difficulty is more RNG based (whether or not you got hit) instead of knowledge of the encounter and performing task xyz flawlessly while maintaining task abc. An event/game-mode that involves far more active (unique) contribution  to succeed is what I'd find more appealing (I think).  Once again, that's hard to address in WF. A game like world of warcraft raiding and 5-man dungeons is the only game I think that truely succeeded at this but clearly is also a massively different type of game.

 

WF could introduce fun gameplay mechanics perhaps but it'd take a lot of under-the-hood programming and still could fail horribly. Quick unrefined ideas I have (just thought of now) would be like having to play hot potato with some orokin artifact as the boss chases you or keeping energy orbs afloat by shooting them, for if they hit the ground they do large amount of aoe dmg.  Simple trivial S#&$ but woven into combat in such a way that it becomes enjoyable and less trivial.  Difficulty would scale by having the boss move faster, having more energy orbs to keep a float, and even combining game types-keeping energy orbs afloat while playing hot potato. Ideas presented may not fit well into the theme of WF though and will go widely unnoticed.

 

Getting back to point, I like the event but agreed it seemed a little grindy. The first few missions were fun because it was unique but very quickly became repetitive with lots of running around great distances. Trying to push upper limits of how much I could handle was something I did not try. Because of this, I'm not sure if I can properly critique the event.

 

2) If it's that bad why'd you do it >.>. Granted most gamers feel the need to complete or "collect them all."

3) Seems to me DE does consider feed back all the time.  Thus, we do have a say in things.  It's in their best interest to try and provide the best content possible to keep players playing.

 

Asking for actual level design ideas might be a bit much.  Being how large the scope could be from each of players point of view and unfeasible from a  dev's PoV.  The dev's could propose a few different ideas and players could rank or give them a score 1-10 of how appealing it sounds. Beyond that I'd think we just have to trust DE will make the best decisions.