Ember: Accelerant Or Overheat?...why Not Both?

[VergilDT]

I'll admit i'm a bit partial to Accelerant. It's got decent CC with the stun and the damage multiplier is great. however the damage and damage reduction from overheat was also a much needed defensive ability to a fragile frame(i mean c'mon, the squishiest frames in the game have 50-65 armor to Ember's 15). I propose taking everything that was Overheat and merging it into World of Fire.

 

Take the 200 damage aura and just add that 200 as a flat buff to the ticks from WoF and remove the aura part.

 

Keep the damage mitigation.

 

Extend the base duration of WoF at max rank to 15 secs to balance the two out.

 

WoF now ignores armor like Overheat did.

 

WoF is affected by the same power mods as it currently is.

 

Now we have an Ember with good CC and a defensive element to her now buffed ultimate. and with armor ignore she's more useful against other factions instead of just Infested.

[Ruby_Rose_]

For frames that have High energy pools, but loew health shields or armor, There's always the good old Rage+QT combo.

 

I'm not personally a fan of it myself, but when a frame has over 400 energy they could make use of.. why not?

[011100110110000101101101]

For frames that have High energy pools, but loew health shields or armor, There's always the good old Rage+QT combo.

 

I'm not personally a fan of it myself, but when a frame has over 400 energy they could make use of.. why not?

Didn't they get rid of that a while ago?

[-Refractor-]

Didn't they get rid of that a while ago?

Only in PvP, still works fine vs everything else

Edited October 12, 2014 by LordDarkwing

[VergilDT]

For frames that have High energy pools, but loew health shields or armor, There's always the good old Rage+QT combo.

 

I'm not personally a fan of it myself, but when a frame has over 400 energy they could make use of.. why not?

Rage+Quick Thinking was given a limit to balance it, rage kicks in, then quick thinking takes over, run out of energy and your dead. It's a good layer of defense I use it on Ember myself but with the sheer amount of damage that can hit you at higher levels. my energy pool of 487 still only last so long. furthurmore when QT drains too much energy keeping you alive, you can't cast anything else, even the one use of Accelerant that could give you a sec to get out of a tight spot. If your paying attention and pop WoF when you see you're becoming crowded, the damage mitigation can greatly increase the effectiveness of Rage+Quick Thinking and a follow up Accelerant can save you and your teammates gluteus.

[direcyphre]

You say it like every other caster frame has defensive capabilities. Ember is by no means the squishiest either.

[Othergrunty]

What i miss the most about Overheat is the badass look of Ember being covered in glowing ash and being able to close the distance to enemies better with it, thanks to constant the flame proc stun effect.

 

While Accelerant now has the same stun role, it's drawback is that you have to get close BEFORE you can use it.

At least Excalibur has his slash dash and super jump to get into Radial Blind distance for attack. Ember needs to avoid or survive direct fire from enemies manualy, which is near impossible at higher levels were their accurancy increases dramatically.

 

So it usualy works better as defense rather than as offensive support ability. The later is also more hindered by the fact that it seems most players prefer corrosive, viral, or radiation damage at higher levels than to use flame damage. Which means most of the time only the Ember get's a benefit from it, rather than the whole team.

 

Talking about short range defense for Ember though.

Why can't Fire Blast be more like the one of Sargas Ruk and the Arson Eximus? Being a flame nova that knocks enemies back while dealing fire damage?

Sure it's current form works as an area denial ability against melee units, but it's quite unreliable in that role and overshadowed by defense oriented frames like Vauban and Frost.

So giving up the area denial in favor of a powerfull knockback and damage could be a good trade off. Especialy since it could also synergize better with Accelerant as a two step combo against enemy crowds.

[Azawarau]

Overheat was OP

 

And ember is useful against every faction

[Epicagemo]

I can't wait till overheat to come back and or an Ember buff occurs, but the only possible way to get the Devs to consider buffing Ember on their unending pipeline of stuff is when the community as a whole gets an uprising for Ember alone.

 

Weekly Overheat topics may be the way to go :)

[Angus_JTV]

I'm not a big fan of Ember but i like to play my Ember Prime also in high level mission. Accelerant is good to me but it need a little buff in range and duration in my opinion. Range because you need to be very close to targets in order to make it effective. Duration is needed because its effectiveness is too short when you need to take cover. Furthermore WoF animation is very slow. A quick Accelerant + WoF casting combo is what i use to do when things go wrong, but in some circumstances against high level enemy is pretty impossible to do that.

[Azawarau]

Perhaps theyve decided not to keep it?

 

I'm not a big fan of Ember but i like to play my Ember Prime also in high level mission. Accelerant is good to me but it need a little buff in range and duration in my opinion. Range because you need to be very close to targets in order to make it effective. Duration is needed because its effectiveness is too short when you need to take cover. Furthermore WoF animation is very slow. A quick Accelerant + WoF casting combo is what i use to do when things go wrong, but in some circumstances against high level enemy is pretty impossible to do that.

I can do that flawlessly every time

 

Accelerant>WoF>Accelerant if youre really deep in and need a save

Edited October 14, 2014 by theclinton
cleaned

[VergilDT]

Perhaps theyve decided not to keep it?

 

we can't know that untill there's official word on it, such as what happened with the whole Founder's gear debacle. as a matter of fact I intend to put the question of warframe abilities, not just Ember, on the next Devstream so that we might get just such an official word straight from the devs.

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

Whats all this talk about ember being non effective and has no range lol, use strech on her, i swear majority of ppl dont know how to mod warframes, ember is awesom and the queen of exterminate , if you cant see that then i suggest getting better.   E.Siphon - accelerent WOF - intensify, continuity, rage, quick thinking, consituation, strech, streamline and flow - 3 forma build n practically handle anything with experienced team, and no dont need blind rage, spammable accelerent more than makes up for the damage.

Edited October 14, 2014 by (PS4)Veg1ta

[Malikon]

we can't know that untill there's official word on it, such as what happened with the whole Founder's gear debacle. as a matter of fact I intend to put the question of warframe abilities, not just Ember, on the next Devstream so that we might get just such an official word straight from the devs.

Pretty sure Overheat getting removed was the official word on whether or not it was to be kept.  Just sayin.

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

Just thought id take ember p out on a T4 def, lets just say i had over 50% damage at wave 20, over 600 kills and my 3 random teamates decided to leave for a ember p bp, well no way am leaving, so me and ember p really getting tested now, wave 21 completed solo, beat on 22 but i think this example puts to bed any talk of ember p not up to standards.

[Flowen231]

Just thought id take ember p out on a T4 def, lets just say i had over 50% damage at wave 20, over 600 kills and my 3 random teamates decided to leave for a ember p bp, well no way am leaving, so me and ember p really getting tested now, wave 21 completed solo, beat on 22 but i think this example puts to bed any talk of ember p not up to standards.

In t4D Ive gone to wave 30 alone as rhino P, 37 as loki P and 45 on nova (max slow nova). That's not a very good example of how "useful" ember is.

 

Back on topic, Ember's usefulness is lowered in any mission that does not require you to defend something because she has to be moving to catch up with most targets that don't rush towards her, and she's as slow as an obese 2 year old. Overheat at the very least made ember kinda tanky, now shes just one of the squishier frames that happens to be very slow, and has powers that require you to move far in short bursts of time to get the most out of them.

 

If she had just a movement speed buff (maybe be as fast as nova) that would automatically make her alot better.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Flowen231

[Azawarau]

we can't know that untill there's official word on it, such as what happened with the whole Founder's gear debacle. as a matter of fact I intend to put the question of warframe abilities, not just Ember, on the next Devstream so that we might get just such an official word straight from the devs.

Itd be nice if it ended

 

Changing WoF is a much better option than reintroducing a crutch that will be used for nothing but speeding through levels and farming the first 5 waves or 5 minutes of missions

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

In t4D Ive gone to wave 30 alone as rhino P, 37 as loki P and 45 on nova (max slow nova). That's not a very good example of how "useful" ember is.

 

Back on topic, Ember's usefulness is lowered in any mission that does not require you to defend something because she has to be moving to catch up with most targets that don't rush towards her, and she's as slow as an obese 2 year old. Overheat at the very least made ember kinda tanky, now shes just one of the squishier frames that happens to be very slow, and has powers that require you to move far in short bursts of time to get the most out of them.

 

If she had just a movement speed buff (maybe be as fast as nova) that would automatically make her alot better.

Negative it is a gd example , ember is not a defense frame , her best mode is exterminate where u be lucky to get 20% of the kills my friend , she allrdy dominated 3 randoms on a mode she doesnt even excile at, buff her anymore and randoms be lucky to get a kill. Her speed is fine ,her range is fine and she can go toe to toe with any amount of enemy because of spammable accelerent, she has 450 energy pool combined with rage and quick thinking makes her far from squisher , reading ur post makes me think a) ur ember build is not gd or b) you dont know how to play her.

Edited October 15, 2014 by (PS4)Veg1ta

[Flowen231]

Negative it is a gd example , ember is not a defense frame , her best mode is exterminate where u be lucky to get 20% of the kills my friend , she allrdy dominated 3 randoms on a mode she doesnt even excile at, buff her anymore and randoms be lucky to get a kill. Her speed is fine ,her range is fine and she can go toe to toe with any amount of enemy because of spammable accelerent, she has 450 energy pool combined with rage and quick thinking makes her far from squisher , reading ur post makes me think a) ur ember build is not gd or b) you dont know how to play her.

The problem is that the frames I mentioned except loki (since he has no direct damage abilities) are better than she is at everything, nova is not as squishy, runs faster, and has an ability that literally destroys everything, she can do anything ember can faster, rhino with an arcane vanguard helmet is faster (rhino prime is as fast as loki with one), his ultimate eliminates enemies faster, unlike ember who's ultimate is slower to deal damage when there are more things in range; it targets everything in range all at once, and anything with enough hp to survive is left completely immobile. And if ember is not a tanky frame and instead is an offensive caster, what is mirage? Mirage has more than four times the armor ember has, shes even faster than nova, and she has the same energy pool as ember, her ultimate costs half as much to cast, has much more range, and blinds enemies when it's finished, she has 2 abilities that individually out damage anything ember has by a landslide and can be activated together, and one of those abilities reduces damage done to mirage by 75% (before adding power strength to boost that further) AND makes it so that enemies can't hit you as easily.

 

Best part is that none of those frames have to waste mod slots to equip rage and quick thinking. So yeah, I don't think i'd be the end of the world to give ember a little something to stack up with some of the other frames out there, and if you think shes just fine, that's cool man, keep playing how you like but I disagree.

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

The problem is that the frames I mentioned except loki (since he has no direct damage abilities) are better than she is at everything, nova is not as squishy, runs faster, and has an ability that literally destroys everything, she can do anything ember can faster, rhino with an arcane vanguard helmet is faster (rhino prime is as fast as loki with one), his ultimate eliminates enemies faster, unlike ember who's ultimate is slower to deal damage when there are more things in range; it targets everything in range all at once, and anything with enough hp to survive is left completely immobile. And if ember is not a tanky frame and instead is an offensive caster, what is mirage? Mirage has more than four times the armor ember has, shes even faster than nova, and she has the same energy pool as ember, her ultimate costs half as much to cast, has much more range, and blinds enemies when it's finished, she has 2 abilities that individually out damage anything ember has by a landslide and can be activated together, and one of those abilities reduces damage done to mirage by 75% (before adding power strength to boost that further) AND makes it so that enemies can't hit you as easily.

 

Best part is that none of those frames have to waste mod slots to equip rage and quick thinking. So yeah, I don't think i'd be the end of the world to give ember a little something to stack up with some of the other frames out there, and if you think shes just fine, that's cool man, keep playing how you like but I disagree.

Just stop, all the frames you just mentioned cant compare to ember on exterminate, she will out kill them all easily, no contest, and if i need to explain why then quite clearly your talking about a frame you dont know anything about. 

Edited October 15, 2014 by (PS4)Veg1ta

[Flowen231]

Just stop, all the frames you just mentioned cant compare to ember on exterminate, she will out kill them all easily, no contest, and if i need to explain why then quite clearly your talking about a frame you dont know anything about. 

Clearly I don't know anything about the first frame I crafted and have been using since my 6th day on the game. Please don't make ignorant posts, show me FACTS. Like the fact that 1 M prime will clear 1-2 rooms depending on their size in less than 5 seconds if the nova is a good shot, all you have to do is kill one thing and everything else will die instantly, whereas ember would take 5 seconds just to cross said room without a rush mod on. And i'm done arguing with you bruh, play your game and have fun.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Flowen231

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

Clearly I don't know anything about the first frame I crafted and have been using since my 6th day on the game. Please don't make ignorant posts, show me FACTS. Like the fact that 1 M prime will clear 1-2 rooms depending on their size in less than 5 seconds if the nova is a good shot whereas ember would take 5 seconds just to cross said room without a rush mod on. And i'm done arguing with you bruh, play your game and have fun.

WoF follows ember everywhere, you cast molecular prime am afriad am detonating majority of your kill , how long you had her is irrelevant when clearly you still haven't learned her strengths, more fool you i guess.  Buff her be my guest, but your listening to ppl who dont even use frames to there full potential , its only going to make players like me even bigger kill hogs.

Edited October 15, 2014 by (PS4)Veg1ta

[Malikon]

WoF follows ember everywhere, you cast molecular prime am afriad am detonating majority of your kill , how long you had her is irrelevant when clearly you still haven't learned her strengths, more fool you i guess.  Buff her be my guest, but your listening to ppl who dont even use frames to there full potential , its only going to make players like me even bigger kill hogs.

Kill hogs?  Is that a thing now?  Anyway, just pointing out some obvious things here.  You may have detonated the mprime and caused the chain kills to start, but without the M-prime you're still slow-running around everywhere waiting for WoF to catch things individually.  You got the number on your mission complete screen for the kills but the Nova did the work in a much shorter time with less effort. 

 

You're obviously glossing over quite a few things here in your overall assessment of Ember's kits and abilities.  Can she wreck stuff?  Sure, but many others can do it way better across a larger group of mission types with less effort.  She's slow and needs mod slots or special melee weapon consideration for even a chance to be "mobile".  WoF requires every single mod type to be "good" which eats up mod slots and allows for way less customization and makes WoF unable to be modded for maximum anything due to the corrupted mods being circular in downfalls.  And only one of her skills provide even the slightest bit of reliable CC or survivability (Accelerant).

 

Your examples of exterminate missions and beating randoms lead me to believe you get excited by numbers and assume that because you have a "kill" listed that it was actually all you.  And the fact that you talk about being a "kill hog" leads me even further to believe you dont fully grasp this is a co-op; there is no competition between players in PvE.

 

All-in-all, from a guy who was playing Ember since Ember had a tech-tree instead of a mod loadout, I can safely say that I disagree with your arguements wholeheartedly.

[(PSN)Veg1ta]

Kill hogs?  Is that a thing now?  Anyway, just pointing out some obvious things here.  You may have detonated the mprime and caused the chain kills to start, but without the M-prime you're still slow-running around everywhere waiting for WoF to catch things individually.  You got the number on your mission complete screen for the kills but the Nova did the work in a much shorter time with less effort. 

 

You're obviously glossing over quite a few things here in your overall assessment of Ember's kits and abilities.  Can she wreck stuff?  Sure, but many others can do it way better across a larger group of mission types with less effort.  She's slow and needs mod slots or special melee weapon consideration for even a chance to be "mobile".  WoF requires every single mod type to be "good" which eats up mod slots and allows for way less customization and makes WoF unable to be modded for maximum anything due to the corrupted mods being circular in downfalls.  And only one of her skills provide even the slightest bit of reliable CC or survivability (Accelerant).

 

Your examples of exterminate missions and beating randoms lead me to believe you get excited by numbers and assume that because you have a "kill" listed that it was actually all you.  And the fact that you talk about being a "kill hog" leads me even further to believe you dont fully grasp this is a co-op; there is no competition between players in PvE.

 

All-in-all, from a guy who was playing Ember since Ember had a tech-tree instead of a mod loadout, I can safely say that I disagree with your arguements wholeheartedly.

I disagree with everything in that post, if you think it takes every mod slot\type for wof to be good your deluded and me pointing out how effective her kills ratio is simply reinforceing the fact that shes far from being a weak frame.

Edited October 15, 2014 by (PS4)Veg1ta

[Malikon]

I disagree with everything in that post, if you think it takes every mod slot for wof to be good your deluded and me pointing out how effective her kills ratio is simply reinforceing the fact that shes far from being a weak frame.

Disagree all you like.  These are forums afterall, opinions is what this place is for.  However, in the interest of helping you out, I will leave you with this.  People will not take you or your arguments seriously when you focus on singular mission types, playing with randoms, and "kill ratios" as evidence.