Some Love For Ember.

[BrazilianJoe]

Ember is generally regarded as not being among the best frames. 

She has been tweaked a little, but not too much. 

But DE has shown it is not shy of changing frames after they are released, so here go some proposed changes: 

 

Gearing her skills around the mythological Phoenix, I had her skill looks and powers reimagined to some extent, but not completely changed. 

 

Fire Ball: The fire ball appearance will be that of of a phoenix bird, which explodes on contact with the target. It will cause the ground to burn at the point of explosion, in a radius of 1/2/3/4 meters for 2/3/4/5 seconds. Affected by range and duration mods. Damage on target is 150/225/300/400. Area fire damage is 35/70/105/140 per second with 50% heat proc chance. All damage is affected by power strength mods. 

 

(EDIT: Reworked my fire blast idea, as I was not totally satisfied with it)

Fire Blast: Replaced with 'Deadly Heat'.

 

Accelerant: Left as is, but added another synergistic effect with Deadly Heat.

 

Fire Blast: The ring of fire ends up not being regarded as very effective by the players. As a level 3 skill it should do more. Replacing it with Deadly Heat.

 

Deadly Heat: Ember creates a superheated air zone, where the slightest manifestation of Tenno energy coalesces Ember Fire around it, enhancing weapons. 

 

Instead of creating a circular wall, Ember creates a spherical volume of superheated air impregnated with Ember energy. It is a death zone for enemies where the Tenno atacks will be fire imbued. 

Wapon fired inside the Deadly Heat zone and Melee inside it is incremented with fire damage. +12.5/25/37.5/50% of the weapon damage and +12.5/25/37.5/50% status chance.

Enemies affected by accelerant get a +12.5/25/37.5/50% slowdown. Because it is a non-newtonian fluid, and as it heats up, before igniting it hardens. 

 

World On Fire: The major problem is forcing a slow, unarmored frame to run through enemies to cause them damage. To change that, I propose a new skill. 

 

Phoenix Fire: Ember focuses its elemental power and enshrouds itself with a fiery armor. This fire form resembles a human torch appearance and the flames emanating look like fire birds (phoenixes). Her footsteps leave red-hot footprints where she walks and when wallrunning (just cosmetic).

 

Phoenix Fire is a Toggle ability. 

 

Effects:

All procs are debuffed from Ember, and she regains 15/30/45/60% health and shield (replenishing up to 100% health and shields - affected by power strength)

This superheated air and fire mixture melts bullets and hurts the enemies, causing their attacks to become much less effective. 

Phoenix form gives Ember 150/300/450/600 armor (600 armor effectively triples her health) and proc immunity. Armor is affected by power strength. 

Ember also gets a speed boost - +25% speed. Because she is superheating the air under her and creating a low friction environment around her.

Ember will also create explosions over time. The skill will cast a fireball (like the 1st skill) 1/2/3/4 times per second, targeting the closest not-on-fire enemy. Tick frequency is altered by Power Duration (i.e power duration increases ticks per second).

Melee attacks will have added fire damage with 50% proc chance, at +15/30/45/60% weapon damage. 

 

Skill will be active by 4/6/8/10 seconds for free. After that, it will drain 12 energy per second, affected by power efficiency. 

The skill can't be toggled off before the minimum time transpires.

 

Toggle off: Toggling off the skill would cost 100 energy too. It would shed off the phoenix armor, coating enemies around with Accelerant. Ember also heals 15/30/45/60% shield and health (up to her max health) upon shedding off the phoenix armor (she's a phoenix, she regens; affected by power strength). If ember does not have 100 energy, she will shed off the phoenix armor with no buffs or skills cast. After toggling off or waning of the skill for lack of energy, the skill cannot be cast again for 10/8/6/4 seconds. 

 

Toggle on and toggle off become tactical choices for the Ember player, since toggling off will give the player a perhaps-needed healing. Cooldowns for toggle on/toggle off must be kept in the player's mind.

 

 

In defense of Phoenix Fire: 

 

It's inevitable to compare Phoenix Fire to Valkyr's Hysteria. 

Both grant a high degree of resilience to the Warframe - Hysteria gives invulnerability outright - both enhance melee damage, both give the frame some kind of self-healing ability.

 

I don't think it detracts in any way from the experience, because: 

 

1) There are only so many ability attributes which can be permutated and combined inside warframe's mechanics. Many Warframe skills are similar in their effect across frames, but different in the mechanical details. 

 

2) It's nice to have 'powered up' versions of some warframes on their ultimates instead of 'lesser buffs' on other skills. Valkyr is the inevitable canonical one, since it's the first warframe which ever had a skill so much focused on personal buffing, as opposed to opponent damage/cc/utility. 

 

3) Warframe draws much inspiration from mythology, and Phoenix Fire is a good improvement on that, referencing phoenix's regeneration.

Edited October 17, 2014 by BrazilianJoe

[Shinseyoku]

Sounds like a great idea

[unknow99]

After Excalibro 2.0, Nekros 2.0, McChicken 3.0 is needed.

 

Her abilities simply doesn't scale well with the levels... ;~;

[PhoenixElite]

"Phoenix"

Yes... you sir, can have all my "Yes"

[Malikon]

Ok, I am liking the proposal for Fireball.

 

Deadly Heat would be interesting if it were a fire "bubble" that applied damage increases to Tenno attacks within the bubble, reduced fire resistance of enemies inside the bubble, but did NOT serve as a shield like Electric Shield/Snowglobe.  If it acted as a shield, it would stop fitting Ember's motif I believe.

 

"Phoenix Fire" seems a bit weird to me.  Comments on it are as follows:

- Love the movement speed increase

- I'm OK with debuffs being stripped from Ember upon activation, as well as a bit of restored health/shields at the end of the skill. 

- Semi-OK with the toggle nature of the skill based on its implementation. 

- Definately leaning towards not OK with the 600 armor and proc immunity.  Smells too much of overheat and doesnt fit Ember.

- Curious about the overall effectiveness of its "explosions" being Fireballs.  Does said fireballs still leave the flaming patches on the ground?  Working this way, wont it get scaled out of usefulness faster than the current WoF?

 

 

I only see three skills, is Accelerant remaining untouched in this proposal?

Edited October 15, 2014 by Malikon

[Tali]

I like these suggestions and once again ember shall rise from upon the ashes

[Catalyst1945]

I would main Ember if this was implemented. This is a really cool idea. I hope someone from DE finds this thread badly. +1

Edited October 14, 2014 by Glowing1011

[Lorthos_Mornin]

Huh, I kinda like Ember as she is.   I mostly use her on exterminates as the moving ult is great and on the higher difficulty enemies I just hit accelerant and they melt anyway.  What I really enjoy doing is going on T4 exterminates with an all Ember party.  Somebody walks in and hits accelerant and everybody already has World on Fire up, it's a blast, literally.

[Azawarau]

Overpowered

 

Shes a caster, not a tank

[Dragazer]

Overpowered

 

Shes a caster, not a tank

Funny thing is that ember is neither. Her kit and stats pretty much contradict each other. She's squishy but her skills require her to be in close range to the enemy. She is the last frame I'll call op and is in need of a serious buff.

[PhoenixElite]

Overpowered

 

Shes a caster, not a tank

Caster? Yes, a relatively underpowered one though, she is described as a ability based damage frame, i.e a glass cannon. However, she is mainly glass, and close to no "cannon". Her fireball/WoF both only do a measly 950 damage at max rank with FULL strength, and it does about 5700 damage with accelerant. The problem? First of all, for her to cast accelerant, she has to get somewhat close to the enemy, depending on the range mods.

 

   Another problem is WoF is limited by everything, most frames have abilities that can be specialized, ember's WoF however, is a different story. You want a lot of damage? Sure, but you gotta deal with high energy cost. You wanna reduce the energy cost? Then put on streamline/fleeting expertise, so now you want WoF to last more than a couple seconds, so you put on continuity/narrow minded, which then leaves you to put on stretch, which still doesn't give you back all your range unless you use overextended for whatever reason and hey! Now you do less damage! On top of that, don't forget all the mod slots you're wasting just because you wanted your WoF to do more damage. Get the point yet?

 

Also, your "Overpowered" argument is relatively invalid, all caster frames have some sort of "Get outta jail free" card. Nova has MPrime that slows down, and wormhole lets you teleport. Nyx has absorb and chaos. Banshee has silence and sound quake. Mirage has disco ball's--- err, I mean prism's stun, eclipse's damage reduction, AND hall of mirrors. Every frame has some sort of escape tactic, and no, ember's puny 2 second stun from accelerant doesn't count.

[Azawarau]

Funny thing is that ember is neither. Her kit and stats pretty much contradict each other. She's squishy but her skills require her to be in close range to the enemy. She is the last frame I'll call op and is in need of a serious buff.

Shes a run and gun frame

 

you can focus on stunning and avoiding fire enough that her being soft isnt an issue

 

Especially with speedy Accelerant to save her and WoF dishing out massive damage

 

The issue is its really difficult to sustain

 

To the point where it isnt viable

 

Caster? Yes, a relatively underpowered one though, she is described as a ability based damage frame, i.e a glass cannon. However, she is mainly glass, and close to no "cannon". Her fireball/WoF both only do a measly 950 damage at max rank with FULL strength, and it does about 5700 damage with accelerant. The problem? First of all, for her to cast accelerant, she has to get somewhat close to the enemy, depending on the range mods.

 

   Another problem is WoF is limited by everything, most frames have abilities that can be specialized, ember's WoF however, is a different story. You want a lot of damage? Sure, but you gotta deal with high energy cost. You wanna reduce the energy cost? Then put on streamline/fleeting expertise, so now you want WoF to last more than a couple seconds, so you put on continuity/narrow minded, which then leaves you to put on stretch, which still doesn't give you back all your range unless you use overextended for whatever reason and hey! Now you do less damage! On top of that, don't forget all the mod slots you're wasting just because you wanted your WoF to do more damage. Get the point yet?

 

Also, your "Overpowered" argument is relatively invalid, all caster frames have some sort of "Get outta jail free" card. Nova has MPrime that slows down, and wormhole lets you teleport. Nyx has absorb and chaos. Banshee has silence and sound quake. Mirage has disco ball's--- err, I mean prism's stun, eclipse's damage reduction, AND hall of mirrors. Every frame has some sort of escape tactic, and no, ember's puny 2 second stun from accelerant doesn't count.

M prime isnt a get out of jail free at all

 

Its too slow for that

 

Same for Sound quake and Mirages disco ball

 

Embers stun is 3-4 seconds and spammable with a buff

 

Use it along with WoF and you can kill things while moving

 

shes a mobile frame and people need to player her as a mobile frame

[Dragazer]

Shes a run and gun frame

 

you can focus on stunning and avoiding fire enough that her being soft isnt an issue

 

Especially with speedy Accelerant to save her and WoF dishing out massive damage

 

The issue is its really difficult to sustain

 

To the point where it isnt viable

 

The post before you said that Ember is op now you're saying it isn't viable.

what's up with that?

[Azawarau]

The post before you said that Ember is op now you're saying it isn't viable.

what's up with that?

When did i call her OP?

 

Ive been pro ember buff forever

 

But shes not impossibly bad like people say

 

Overheat is OP

[SandwitchPrime]

I like these suggestions and once again ember shall rise from upon the ashes

ash:great :(

[SandwitchPrime]

Huh, I kinda like Ember as she is.   I mostly use her on exterminates as the moving ult is great and on the higher difficulty enemies I just hit accelerant and they melt anyway.  What I really enjoy doing is going on T4 exterminates with an all Ember party.  Somebody walks in and hits accelerant and everybody already has World on Fire up, it's a blast, literally.

until your entire team gets wiped out by a gang of heavy gunners.

4 ember, when you can have one nova solving all your problems single-handedly, literally

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

+1 except

 

and she regains full health and shield.  

 

 

That's too powerful. Otherwise I like how her ultimate actually allows her to get in the midst of combat without being shredded.

[OHyeahWF]

+1  !!! I waiting for any possible of new ember !!

[BrazilianJoe]

Changed Phoenix Fire ultimate to regain partial shields and health on casting, instead of full health. 

[MechaKnight]

This looks pretty nice. Percentage values are speculative as DE will implement whatever they want, however they want. However these concepts look very fun.

[akira_him]

take my +1

[Zero.No.Hikari]

one quick question we're keeping Accel right?  but yeah sounds neat but I kinda use Fire Blast as a area of denial skill,  For some reason Infested now avoid Fireblast and work around it which means you can create a hallway where you can focus on them.  though if it isn't on the ground directly they'll still pass through it.

[BrazilianJoe]

I haven't touched accelerant, I left it as is, since it's a synergistic skill to buff all others & all fire damage. 

[BrazilianJoe]

added a bit of comment in defense of Phoenix Fire. 

[.Czern]

You went too crazy with whole phoenix idea in my opinion but overall these ideas are really interesting.

Fireball setting ground on fire = <3

You have to work on Deadly Heat more, it's too little for an ability. Slowdown? Armor debuff?

And Phoenix Fire, mmm <3 If someone would ever want to make WoF more defensive this is the best option. I'd say it's lesser form of WoF merged with Overheat, and you gave awesome idea how Overheat should have been balanced. I'd decrease toggle off cost to 50, 100 is too much imo.