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Ember Rework Database

.Czern

By .Czern,
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.Czern

.Czern

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It's been almost a year now since she has been left in ashes, lacking of utility, with distorted abilities not working well together and with her stats. Seeing so many threads about her rework recently I thought it might be useful to gather opinions from different topics and post them here.

 

But first I'd like to share an awesome post describing how badly she needs a rework...

Ember's design just doesn't make sense to me, it never has.  3 of Ember's powers are nova types, they all require you to be right in the center for maximum effect.  Yet Ember is not only slow (relative to other Warframes that have speed helmets or just inherently fast), but she has low shield, health AND armor?  Ember is actually the worst Warframe with a 1.0 speed or slower stats-wise.  With only 300/300 and 15 armor.  She is the weakest in terms of defense.   Vauban might seem the weakest, but he is made of CC powers, Ember is not.  The same with Trinity who has heals.  Volt has a large shield to benefit greatly from redirection and have a cover.  Therefore Ember is the weakest among the 1.0 and below.   All she has going is energy capacity.  Which is funny because the one faction she is suppose to be a direct counter to, also has a direct counter to her - disruptors.  

 

Next is her powers.  Accelerant is dumb because fire damage is not better than elemental combinations. So in order to make full use of accelerant, you have to mod with fire damage + corrosive.  Which doesn't seem too bad, until you factor in the fact that that's at least 3 slots already occupied.  In order to do decent damage without accelerant, you'll need 3 mods to have fire+corrsive, then you'll want a generic damage mod, elemental + status mods for those 3 elementals.  That's 7 slots.  All of that just so your damage won't be S#&$ if you can't accelerant for various reasons.  Those reasons mostly have to do with the fact that accelerant is nova, not a targeted AOE, or cone.  So with the little defense you have, you have to run right into the middle to CC and debuff as many as possible.  That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.  A glass cannon having to run straight into the mob.  Because not only do you have to take risk just to use your CC (which defeats the point of CC, they're suppose to keep you safe), you also have to take even more risk to use your ult.

 

WoF is also dumb as hell.  Long cast time, for a small aoe, short duration, weak damage type, power hungry ult.  And you have to be right in the mess too.  I'm just going keep repeating that.  Someone please explain this to me.  What kind of glass cannon would want to to stay in the middle, and start channeling for a ult.  Accelerant might seem to solve this problem, except it doesn't  Because in order to increase the effectiveness of Ember's power.  You'll have to play a game of balancing corrupted mods.  You'll need duration for Acc + WoF to last long enough to matter.  You'll need damage for greater multiplier for Acc, and WoF to kill quick enough so you don't have to stand in the open for too long.  You'll need range so your Acc will actually hit everyone that is attack you, and for WoF to not be a melee range spell.  And lastly you'll need energy efficiency because despite her high energy cap, you'll need 230 (max power) energy to cast Acc + WoF.  You only have 225 if you're not using Flow or have some kind of efficiency.  Also without damage mods, your fireball will be S#&$ unless used with Acc.  So you'll have to choose between Acc+ Fireball, or Acc + WoF for optimized build.  Ultimately, Ember's powers are a pain to balance because something will always negatively affect each other, and in the end it is never worth it to begin with. 

 

TLDR

 

6 major reasons why Ember's design don't make any sense.

 

1.Glass cannon ->must be right in the midst for maximum effectiveness.

 

2,Slow speed -> fragile as well (unlike Rhino, or loki, or Ash, or Nova, or literally everyone else)

 

3.Only good stat is energy cap -> Her supposed purpose is to counter Infested, Infested have disruptors that would ruin her completely.

 

4.Powers require ALL stats to be increased to be effective at high level -> corrupted mods counter each other.  Unlike say Loki who only needs duration, or Ash with damage and/or duration, etc.

 

5.Powers also require Acc to be effective -> Given corrupted mods' nature, you would have to choose either Fireball or WoF, not both for optimization. 

 

6.Supposed to be good at CC -> Must take risk to cast CC, when CCs are meant to indirectly protect you. 

 

 

GROUP 1: World on Fire rework

I. Making WoF toggleable skill.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/309584-practical-rework-ideas-for-all-frames/




Make it a toggle.  The current version requires too many duration mods to be effective and results in wasted energy due to the inflexibility of keeping it up when it's needed.  Making it a toggle will give you on-demand extra dps when you need it at the cost of energy, which is the purpose of the ability. 

II. Merging WoF with Overheat

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/323581-ember-accelerant-or-overheatwhy-not-both/




I'll admit i'm a bit partial to Accelerant. It's got decent CC with the stun and the damage multiplier is great. however the damage and damage reduction from overheat was also a much needed defensive ability to a fragile frame(i mean c'mon, the squishiest frames in the game have 50-65 armor to Ember's 15). I propose taking everything that was Overheat and merging it into World of Fire.

 

Take the 200 damage aura and just add that 200 as a flat buff to the ticks from WoF and remove the aura part.

 

Keep the damage mitigation.

 

Extend the base duration of WoF at max rank to 15 secs to balance the two out.

 

WoF now ignores armor like Overheat did.

 

WoF is affected by the same power mods as it currently is.

 

Now we have an Ember with good CC and a defensive element to her now buffed ultimate. and with armor ignore she's more useful against other factions instead of just Infested.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/303796-ember-and-world-on-fire/?hl=ember

 a massive problem is that I have to bring my squishy Ember into the FRONT lines when using WOF, due to the range. I fear that I might die... This shouldn't be the case.

 

A way to change that is:

Remember the "baby WOF effect with a shield"?

 

Lug Overheat into WOF and combine that so Ember feels somewhat protected. This will make Ember a true frame to play, with defensive and offensive caster capabilities, while making her more enjoyable to play. (However, half the DR or use 15/20/25/30% DR because looking at wiki archive-90% DR is kinda OP)

 

BELOW ISN'T STRICTLY WoF+OVERHEAT BUT IT'S SIMILAR ENOUGH TO PUT IT HERE TO AVOID MESS IN OP

All procs are debuffed from Ember, and she regains 15/30/45/60% health and shield (replenishing up to 100% health and shields - affected by power strength)

This superheated air and fire mixture melts bullets and hurts the enemies, causing their attacks to become much less effective. 

Phoenix form gives Ember 150/300/450/600 armor (600 armor effectively triples her health) and proc immunity. Armor is affected by power strength. 

Ember also gets a speed boost - +25% speed. Because she is superheating the air under her and creating a low friction environment around her.

Ember will also create explosions over time. The skill will cast a fireball (like the 1st skill) 1/2/3/4 times per second, targeting the closest not-on-fire enemy. Tick frequency is altered by Power Duration (i.e power duration increases ticks per second).

Melee attacks will have added fire damage with 50% proc chance, at +15/30/45/60% weapon damage. 

 

Skill will be active by 4/6/8/10 seconds for free. After that, it will drain 10 energy per second, affected by power efficiency. 

The skill can't be toggled off before the minimum time transpires.

 

Toggle off: Toggling off the skill would cost 100 energy too. It would shed off the phoenix armor, coating enemies around with accelerant. Ember also heals 15/30/45/60% shield and health (up to her max health) upon shedding off the phoenix armor (she's a phoenix, she regens; affected by power strength). If ember does not have 100 energy, she will shed off the phoenix armor with no buffs or skills cast. After toggling off or waning of the skill for lack of energy, the skill cannot be cast again for 10/8/6/4 seconds. 

 

Toggle on and toggle off become tactical choices for the Ember player, since toggling off will give the player a perhaps-needed healing. Cooldowns for toggle on/toggle off must be kept in the player's mind.

 

III. Adding blast procs to WoF

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/320667-adding-utility-to-damage-abilities/



World on Fire - The damage isn't quite enough to provide utility at higher levels, and it doesn't do much beyond that. A 100% Blast proc would let it provide some half-decent CC. This could lead to interesting builds, where close-range WoF explosions lead to finishers.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/324513-an-update-for-ember/




 World on Fire could be buffed so that each "explosion" impact deals an AOE knockdown [whose radius COULD be affected by Power Range mods] that could only be cancelled the way other knockdowns are. This would give World on Fire a cooler, more physical effect that would also scale well when enemies are higher level.

IV. Damage drop-off for WoF

World on Fire would have 3 or more different levels of damage, depending on how far away they are from Ember. Those closest would take extreme Heat damage with a high status chance, whilst enemies further away would take less damage but with the same high status chance. Ember herself could have a slightly higher movement speed during the skill's duration, and/or enjoy higher shield capacity/regeneration. 

V. More status chance for WoF

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/308908-is-ember-in-perfect-balance-spot/?hl=ember

Could accelerant add fire status chance or WoF has some minor 10-20%?
Fireball has 50%

Ring of fire have 100%

I never seen World of Fire putting anyone under status effect?

 

Is WoF explosion rate really under RNGJesus?

"explosions occur at a rate of roughly 2 to 4.5 per second."

source: warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ember_(Warframe) ability section

 

Is Ember now in perfect balanced position that no reason to twink her abilities?

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/326335-ember-skill-tweak-suggestions-long-post/

enemys being damaged by "World on fire" will be on the "Fire panic" Animation until they die, or the skill wears off

 

Q:wont World on fire be broken if it stuns their target till the skill wears off?

A: i personally don't think so, simply because in most cases, if the target manages to live that long, then there will be other enemys around that are not affected, also the skill currently only targets a maximum of 3 targets at a time (I think)

VI. Damage buff to WoF

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/306905-ember-buff/?hl=ember

 

World on fire buff

(in my opinion this ability is very bad and damage isnt even enough at level 30 infested)

-Gives a slight speed/shield/armour/health boost for its duration (maybe 5/10/15/20 percent per rank)  and it gives a cool visual effect like in-casing ember in a ball of fire.

-Has a small AOE around each explosion and deals some damage while giving a blast proc.

-increase damage to 600 damage per explosion

 

GROUP 2: Accelerant changes

I. Longer stun duration

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/324513-an-update-for-ember/

Accelerant could be buffed to have a slightly longer stun duration [2 or 3 more seconds], AND it should be able to stack with itself if casted multiple times [adding 100% Heat damage each time, NOT multiplying exponentially.] Its energy cost could also be raised to suit the ability's increased effectiveness.
 

II. Enhanced fire procs

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/315892-possible-ember-update-ideas/?hl=ember

Accelerant is mostly fine as it is, but perhaps it could add a small visual cue that enemies are affected by it, like a wet texture or something. Enemies affected would take a forced Heat proc from the next fire damage they're hit with, the proc would last until Accelerant wore off, and also enemies affected could be lit on fire by proximity with other units on fire.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/305919-three-changes-that-would-allow-me-to-enjoy-ember/?hl=ember

"Accelerant" gains the ability to sustain fire DOTs on the target and spread to new targets.  When you trigger fire DOT on a target, it will run for the full duration of Accelerant rather than just ticking a few seconds like it does for targets who are not sprayed with fuel.  Only the single highest magnitude of DOT is sustained in this way. Enemies can spread their fire DOT to other enemies near them who are covered in Accelerant but not presently on fire. Enemies who are on fire and hit by a second cast of Accelerant will have the duration reset.

III. Make it even more powerful and spammable

Accelerant

-The cost should be decreased to at least 35, people will therefore use it more

-There should be a flat increase of damage (at maximum of 20%) per rank of the mod on enemies affected

-Power duration should affect length of the stun

 

Other

-The ability remains on enemies like Radial Disarm does

IV. Damage from any source to affected enemies deal bonus fire damage

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/315472-ember-accelerent-change/?hl=ember

I really hope i'm not alone on this but i think the current accelerant is great besides for the damage adding, i think that it would be much better if instead of adding to existing fire damage making it useless if you don't use fire mods, it should be like a fire mod, i mean that it should add fire damage with a precentege of your base damage, understand what i'm saying?
I'l say 100%+ fire damage at max rank

V. Combined elements using fire are also affected

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/294742-altering-ember/?hl=ember

Accelerant is a great skill that helps reinforce the glass cannon ideal.

But one slight issue is that fire damage will mix to make other elements, so it can be hard to mod weapons for it.
This could be solved by giving accelerant the ability to amplify the damage of fire variants (gas, radiation, and blast) by 40/60/80/100% SWPS (less than half of the fire damage buff)

VI. Enemy debuff changed to ally buff

Accelerant: This ability should Accelerate your allies, not the enemies. IMO it should still apply the short stun, but instead of debuffing enemies, it should buff your allies with a % fire damage bonus to all sources of their damage. This gives Ember some real utility that would allow players to even begin consider taking her on a high-level run.

 

VII. Fire damage ignores armor of affected enemies

 https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/325094-yet-another-plea-to-buff-ember/

Now,the one thing that does pose a problem to her and her AoE burst that's supposed to justify her lack of survivability/utility,is the scaling of her damage.In fact, this problem does not originate from Ember's initial damage output itself but from the armor scaling and the heavy damage penalty it brings along for fire-type damage.So,the only change I'm suggesting is having Accelerant also enabling fire-type damage to bypass enemy armor.This change would hardly affect her impact on low-lvl missions,as she's plenty overkill there,already.The buff would mostly affect her effectiveness in higher-lvl runs,when armor scaling becomes relevant.

VIII. Weapon fire damage and abilities damage booster

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/349531-on-how-to-bring-ember-to-a-propper-position/#entry3903629

Accelerate- the radiating heat coming off Ember is so immense that fire is amplified in effect and damage. Once cast at a set cost, acceleration give a permanent aura, increasing the % of fire damage done. If any ability is used after the activation of this one, then the aura is consumed and the ability cast gains improved or new effects. Thank you quietcanary for coming up with this!

Secondary effect- all enemies in range get additional fire procs and individual enemy armor is reduced by a % based on how many fire procs accumulated by them.

Edited by CKN_Czarny
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GROUP 3: Fire blast rework

I. Replacing it with Fire Eximus' slam

"Fire blast" replaced with the ability that Fire Eximus units have: An expanding sphere of flames that knocks targets down. In Ember's case it should also do a fair whack of damage and set people on fire. Cost reduced to 50 energy.  (at 75 energy, made obsolete by World on Fire which can cumulatively do a lot more damage)

 

 I would absolutely love if Fire Blast had some form of cc as traybong suggested it, possibly one thing that could happen is take the ring of fire portion of it, and just make it something in the lines of this:

Q9GDXLg.gif

 

The first part is the explosion that happens inside the actual ring, all enemies inside the ring will be knocked back, then the rest of explosion spreads, only dealing damage to enemies that get hit by it.

 

II. Make combos with other abilities

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/309584-practical-rework-ideas-for-all-frames/

 

Adding supportive properties to Fire Blast could work.  Here are some examples (partially stolen from Kurtys' post above:)

 

Fire Ball - AOE hits gain the properties of direct hits

 

Accelerant - No direct  benefit, but firing through the fire ring grants bonus fire damage, similar to Volt shield and MQuanta balls (somewhat stronger, but no critical shenanigans.)

 

World On Fire - Ember gains the old Overheat damage reduction effect (not as strong as it used to be, but with the old graphic that people loved!) when she's inside the circle with WoF active. 

 

 

These augments are powerful but come at the cost of laying down Fire Blast every time you want to use them.  They also bring back Overheat conditionally and allow teammates to take better advantage of Accelerant's damage buff.  Everyone wins.  

III. DoT inside the ring

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/322425-ember-ability-rework-ability-ranking-system/

Currently Ember has no kind of defensive ability and makes survivabillity very low and lacks "End game" use. 

My suggestion would be give a small buff to the ability so there does not have to be an overhaul so to speak. 

I think that along with the fire damage dealt by the ability when the enemy enters the ring of fire they are then trapped. As you know if a person were to be trapped in a burning building there is going to be a lack of oxygen. So when trapped inside the ring of fire more damage is dealt over time and also giving Ember that sort of defense against large numbers of enemies. This would also make the ability more useful for its intentions of being a sort of protect an object ability. 

Fire Blast would have damage over time inside the ring, though at a smaller DoT than the ring itself, but with a higher status chance. If Accelerant is cast while inside, or across the ring, Accelerant will apply a forced Heat proc if the power crossed the fire itself. Frames inside the ring would also enjoy increased Shield regeneration (Since Cold damage damages shields, wouldn't it make sense that higher temperatures would 'supercharge' our shields?)

 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/324557-ember-rework-database/page-2#entry3912729

Fire Blast (more defensive) - Ember hits the ground releasing a portion of its inner power, which explodes, creating a ring of static fire, then pulses emitting concentric waves of high heat at the rate of one per second (XXX damage per second -100 status% chance)The waves of heat and the outer ring are 4 meters high and have a 50% chance to vaporize any projectile that comes in contact with.All damage is affected by Power Strength, and the initial damage from the explosion DO NOT decreases with distance.The Heat DoT Inflicts 50% of the initial damage per tick. For Heat procs, the damage ticks 7 times over 6 seconds.Should the initial explosion hit an enemy's head, the Heat DoT will inflict 100% of the initial damage per tick for the same duration.Ring duration is affected by Power Duration.The radius and the height of the outer ring as well as the radius and the height of the waves ARE affected by Power RangeIncrease duration to 25 second

IV. More utility

Fire Blast

-Enemies in range should be slowed down, making it much more effective against infested

-If enemies are in this for more than 5 seconds Accelerant debuff is applied

-Projectiles passing through the fire (not above) are melted (damage reduction?) making this ability the defensive ability Ember needs

 

Other

-The blast acts like the Eximi one and pushes everyone back damaging them, very good for CC (could still leave the ring behind)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/306905-ember-buff/?hl=ember

Slowdown any enemies that are inside fire blast's range giving it more utility at higher level

15%/20%/25%/30% per rank (affected by power strength) and increase damage by about 25%

When Ember casts Fire Blast, enemies will still take the initial damage and have the 100% Fire status effect applied to them, and the fire ring will spawn, its radius modifiable by Power Range mods. The fire ring will now be 0.6m thick (non modifiable), and there will be two parts to the fire ring: Outside the fire ring and inside the fire ring. 

 

Outside the fire ring (will be called OFR), enemies will take 25% of the fire ring's damage over time and have a 25% chance of being inflicted with a Fire status effect (non modifiable), up to 0.5m around the outside the edge of the fire ring (meaning if enemies are within 0.5m of the edge of the fire ring, they will take Fire damage over time). This is modifiable by Power Range mods, but up to a 0.75m limit. This cannot be avoided by hiding behind cover (think of it as superheating the air). 

 

Inside the fire ring (will be called IFR), enemies will take 50% of the fire ring's damage over time and have a 50% chance of being inflicted with a Fire status effect (non modifiable), and any enemy projectile or bullet that passes through the fire ring will have its damage decreased by 12.5% if it hits a player or any ally within the fire ring (the bullet/projectile must come from outside the fire ring first), and be immune to Fire status effects. This is also altered through Power Range mods, since it also affects the radius of the fire ring.

 

For some enemy projectiles (credits to Yopee, with some modifications): 

- All enemy explosives that hit the fire ring will explode prematurely, and the radius of the explosions will be halved.

 

- All enemy fire-based weaponry that is fired from outside the fire ring and hits the fire ring will be stopped. If the fire-based weaponry is fired within the ring, then the damage of these fire-based weaponry will be reduced by a half.

 

The fire ring will shrink over time (a 2.0s delay after casting Fire Blast, then it will start to shrink). The duration of the fire ring shrinking to the point where its inner edge becomes the centre of the fire ring is 4.0s, only modifiable by Power Duration mods. That means the OFR range will also shrink as well, but at the same rate as the rate of shrinking for the fire ring. 

 

Once the inner edge has now become the centre of the fire ring, there will be a 0.25s delay before there will be a large fire explosion, dealing 200% of the fire ring's damage and knocking down all enemies within range (range will be the same as the range of the fire ring), meaning the range of the explosion is also modifiable by Power Range mods. 

Okay first of all the 75 energy cost has to go.
50 energy is far more reasonable considering what it does.
The duration should be buffed from 9/12/15/20 seconds to 6/14/22/30 seconds.
This should help Ember defend objectives a little better as she is running around burning things.
And it would be cool if the thickness of the ring was affected by power range.
So that the edge of the ring reaches farther and the safe spot in the center gets smaller.

 

Accelerant can interact with Fire Storm to increase the chance of enemies catching fire, and giving a custom status which allows these enemies to spread fire amongst others near them.

 

Fire Blast can interact with other abilities.

>If Ember stands within the area of Fire Blast, all of her damage abilities gain increased status chance, damage, and range, transforming Ember into a form of stationary turret.

V. Change to cone fire held type ability

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/325391-ember-still-sucks-lack-of-diversity/page-4

I'm thinking, just off the top of my head, some kind of Firebreath ability to replace Fireblast:

 

Press the key once and Ember with lean forward and breathe a quick spout of flame in a cone in front of her, having a high chance to set enemies on fire (so you could use it to, for example, stop a charging Ancient by making him dance) for like 25-30 energy per cast.

 

-however-

 

If you continue to hold the key down, she will keep breathing fire consuming like 2-5 energy per second to maintain it and allowing the player to aim it around to target additional enemies. Sustained damage would be lower than the initial damage, but still have a high chance to set them on fire to function as a CC ability first and foremost.

 

Would be affected by Power Strength and Range (to extend the flames longer, and/or wider).

 

VI. Targeted AoE explosion

Looks like this:

 

 

Player can tap 3 for small circle explosion, or hold for increased damage and range. Holding immobilize Ember, but melee attackers would set on fire proc. Explosion do fire damage, if enemy is not killed, its knocked down.

 

Video summary: targeted ability - holding still enemies in range and dealing DoT to them for a short moment, skill ends shortly after canceling the DoT and dealing massive damage to targets (also freeing them from stasis)

VII. Current Fireblast with targeting and better CC

What I've thought about was as follows:

- 75 Energy

 

- Duration: about 10~12 seconds at most

 

- Enhanced by power strength mods and range mods (but not duration)

  - Power strength affects increased damage done to enemies inside the kill box.

  - Range increases the distance from Ember that the ability can be placed.

 

- Still lays a circle of fire, but does so at the cursor location instead of around Ember

 

- Any enemy that crosses the ring of fire gets a guaranteed heat proc.

 

- Regular nonflying/non-robotic enemy units get trapped inside the ring of fire, elite units can exit the ring but receive another heat proc when doing so..

 

- Enemies trapped inside the ring takes enhanced damage from all sources,

 

Thoughts?

VIII. Merging FB with Accelerant

 Practically merges Accelerant with Fireblast. Upon cast briefly stuns everything in the area, leaving behind the eponymous ring of fire, that applies the Accelerant debuff to anything that crosses it. The enemies are debuffed while they are inside the ring or for 5/6/8/10 seconds since crossing the ring, unaffected by continuity. The ring width is affected by range.

 

GROUP 4: Overheat return

I. Yes!

Fire Blast could be removed and Overheat could make a comeback as her 3rd skill with a slow energy drain during use. I believe Overheat serves Ember's offensive playstyle much better than Fire Blast, which is the skill that SHOULD have been removed, for several reasons:
-Fire Blast is too similar to World on Fire
-Fire Blast has had multiple graphical issues
-Overheat actually encourages berserk gameplay, while Fire Blast encourages standing in one spot.

 

Can Ember please have overheat back, but with a fixed damage reduction. Ember isn't a good frame at all in my opinion and if Overheat was returned with a fixed damage reduction there might be people actually playing her

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/350054-overheat-augment/

Overheat Augment. dont hate :P

Each time Ember casts an ability, she gains a "Fire Charge" for the respective amounts:

->Fireball=1 Accel=2, Fireblast(needs serious reworking)=3...etc.

 

These charges stacks for a maximum of 10 or n amount.

Each charge lasts 8 seconds (and the stack is renewed by more stacks-insert MMO buff stacking style timer here).

These "Fire Charges" provide similar effects of the old ability (but are unaffected by Power strength) 5(or n)% DR and a 3(or n)% bonus to Power strength. She also gets a small Damaging fire aura around her.

 

Grandfathered off an old post of mine, but I didn't get any feedback on it. What do you think?

II. NO!

Overheat was a bandaid, and a terrible one at that.  Accelerant adds more useful attributes to her kit than Overheat ever did.  Please leave Overheat in the dumpster where it belongs.

Alot of embers work should focus on WoF and possibly fire blast

 

Shell shine the way she was meant to without simply being a bullet sponge

 

To calrify more

 

Overheat wont solve embers problems

 

First and most important she has terribly painful lack of synergy with her powers and corrupted mods

 

Without corrupted mods shes not very practical as her powers rely somewhat heavily on power STR,duration,efficiency to bew effective

 

shell fall short

 

Adding overheat wont change this at all either

 

On top of this Overheat itself just turns her from being used as a flame caster to a more run and gun with flames on the side for utility rather than purpose

 

It takes away from the frame itself

 
 
Edited by CKN_Czarny
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GROUP 5: Fireball changes

I. Simple buff

-If enemy is hit 3 times by this ability Accelerant debuff is applied

-Buff Heat Proc chance from 50% to 100% (like Volt's Shock)

-Increase overall proc chance to 25% (not stacking with the heat proc by ability) dealt on enemy

-Can critical at a 50% chance to deal 3x damage on accelerant debuffed enemies (on max rank)

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/294742-altering-ember/?hl=ember

This skill should be Ember’s trademark, her signature move, her butter, and her bread.

But it’s pitifully low damage, and small blast radius makes it nigh worthless without the added damage from accelerant.
So instead of 150/275/300/400 damage it should deal 250/400/550/700 damage, and the blast radius should be buffed to 5 meters.
The damage drop off should be adjusted accordingly to the new range and damage numbers.
And the hitbox of the projectile itself should be enlarged to make it easier to land direct hits.

II. More utility

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/315892-possible-ember-update-ideas/?hl=ember

Fireball could be a sort of dual-phase ability. Tapping it while your reticle is not on an enemy would send out the fireball we have now, but with an enemy targeted it could be more like 'Ignite', which does damage and has a forced Heat proc but is instantaneous. Or possibly 'Ignite' would trigger if the button is tapped and Fireball would cost energy as the button is held (to a cap) and does more damage but has travel time and a slight arc as it would be like throwing a physical ball of burning fuel.

Fireball buff

Make it so that it sticks to walls and enemies like it used to.

"Fireball" creates a short-lived fire hazard on the map, similar to what Napalms do.

In addition to dealing current damage, fireball explodes, ragdolling enemies for a brief amount of time, without too much force, giving Ember a ranged CC.

 

III. Fireballs volley

while i was breaking my [1] button and reloading my GorgonW, i thought to myself, "id wish i could shoot out more fireballs. . ."

So, id suggests some form of Fireball Volly upgarde, so besides shooting one single fireball, ember could shoot out 1/1/2/3 fireballs in a row, and if i moved my mouse while the skill animation was on, id be able to hit mutiple targets at once.

a way to balance this?, maybe just give it a 0/0/1/1.5 second Cooldown, just to let the animation Finnish.

IV. Explosion range layers

* Fireball - Now has 3 different damage zones upon impact:

1) Direct hit, with full 150/225/300/400 Heat damage

2) Close explosion, within a 3 meter radius, dealing 100/175/250/325 Heat damage

3) Distant explosion, within a 8 meter radius, dealing 50/100/175/250 Heat damage

An enemy can only be hit by one of these types. All 3 zones have a 100% Heat proc chance. Direct hit and close explosion also knocks down the enemies!

Also, it now also leaves a large patch of fire on the ground after impact, dealing 15/25/35/50 Heat damage to anyone remaining in its 8 meter radius (which has a 0% proc chance).

Multiple fire patches can exist, and damage stacks!

Power Strength - Affects damage

Power Range - Affects radius (including the fire patch left on the ground) (NEW!)

Power Duration - Affects fire patch duration (NEW!)

 

 

GROUP 6: stats changes

I. Stats buffs

Give her either a health and shield or a speed boost. Ember gets the worst of both worlds in being fragile and also very slow. 

So either a 1.1 running speed 

OR

400 health and shield at rank 30 

50-100 armour at rank 30

Ember is relatively slow, and yet she needs to run around for her ultimate to work properly.
So think that it only feels right to buff her sprint speed from 1.0 to 1.2 or at least 1.1.
Other than that she is okay for a glass cannon.

 

II. Passives

Overheat can come back as a passive ability. The player will simulate actual overheat by constant use of abilities to gradually raise damage reduction. The amount of damage reduction added to the player is dependent on the rate at which abilities are used, as well as which abilities are used. If the player stops using abilities, this damage reduction will gradually be lost. This passive feature can be balanced by a maximum cap for damage reduction, and the degree at which overheat degrades.

Ember bends power to fire. Ember could reverse incoming fire back to pure power? 100 fire dmg= 50 power and 50 damage?

 

 

And lastly, my opinion:

Why won't they just let us swap between Accelerant and Overheat?

This way we would have 2 ways of playing Ember:

1) with Accelerant:

 your abilities deal standard damage which can be massively buffed by Accelerant, you can stun enemies with it; basically current Ember

2) with Overheat

 your abilities deal standard damage but when Overheat is enabled you sacrifice half of range and damage of abilities running during Overheat duration for Overheat's damage reduction

Removing Overheat was bad decision, it not only left Ember broken but also frustrated many players.

But it has been done and now it would be fair if they let us use BOTH skills. Not at once, of course.

 

Also would be nice if Ember's: speed is increased to 1.1; Fire Blast changed to Fire Eximus/Sargas Ruk blast ability; WoF maken toggleable (with high upkeep cost?); maybe a small stamina buff? She has to run a lot.

This is if Overheat is going to return. If not, then:

1) Sprint speed increased to 1.1/1.5

2) Fire Blast change: on cast creates fire slam similar to one used by Sargas Ruk/Fire Eximii but ALSO leaves the ring we have now. The explosion should deal high damage and have 70-100% knockdown proc.

3) WoF maken toggleable with high energy drain but low activation cost

4) Damaging abilities buff (their damage) and Accelerant's multiplier reduced to reflect this change. The point of this is to let us use her without need of spamming Accelerant on higher levels.

5) +50% stamina

6) Would be great if her shield recharge delay was cut a lot but probably I'm asking about too much now :/

7) WoF's proc change increased to reasonable amount (20-40%?)

8) Target limit on WoF increased, maybe faster attack rate? It should be fire rain after all :<

 

Accelerant could be changed to self-buff aura multiplicating abilities damage and giving 0/10/20/30% additional fire damage to weapons of other Tennos.

 

 

I haven't read every topic/post related to Ember, nor I haven't linked here every contribution I saw. I tried to not copy ideas for completely new abilities.

Feel free to add yours or give links in comments.

 

 

NOTE: I had to split the opening post into 3 parts due to quotation limit.

Edited by CKN_Czarny
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(PSN)Veg1ta

(PSN)Veg1ta

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Posted (edited)

I disagree with most of Casval rouge post, for example ember is just as durable as any of the frames in her situation , low shield and health with large energy pool , therefore most smart players equip rage and quick thinking, 15 armour or 50 armour isnt going to really have any bearing.  Also he mentions wof duration being short, well add duration mods, my build has wof at 15 secs with no loss to range, i just dont see ember as this weak frame so many like to paint.

Edited by (PS4)Veg1ta
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Zenturio

Zenturio

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Posted

I realy like the variety and quality of ideas brought by that thread. The merge of overheat and WoF sound intresting, as well as increasing the proc chance of WoF and adding some movement speed to her in general.

 

Though i don't know what would be better, either giving her fire blast a more defensive aspect by a slowdown debuff as well as projectile damage reduction (that defensive aspect could also be given by accelerate having a higher stun duration or let it be scaled with power duration), or to design fire blast as an ability similar to the fire eximus slam with a size increasing fire ring. Since i have been playing ember in the closed beta i really haven't been finding that ability much viable in any situation because it mostly just made a small ranged fire slam and creating a ring of fire that just dealt damage while enemys where in the actual ring rather then also inside it.

 

Considering her fire ball ability i would like to see a slight increase of damage and blast radius. Oh and maybe changing the look of the fire and how it mixes up with the energy color .... throwing a fireball looks more like you slam a sack of flour into the enemies face rather than a burning ball of pain and torture .... she's supposed to be the "Fire Queen" and not a baker (could use a pice of cake now ^-^), though that would be more a secondary interest (i am using quite much though, don't I).

 

Overall i would really love to see her being viable again after the change of WoF and the removal of overheat ... and that the thread doesn't sink like a broken ship of hope in the dark depths of the forum.

 

Deep in my heart she is still kind of my favorite frame <3 and i hope DE do not just see her as a kind of filler frame so we have something that is dropped by Ruk (what was a pain in the a** to farm as the systems wouldn't drop in closed beta at a certain time, or maybe RNGesus just hated me)

 

Thanks for reading and have a nice time guys :).

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.Czern

.Czern

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Posted (edited)

I disagree with most of Casval rouge post, for example ember is just as durable as any of the frames in her situation , low shield and health with large energy pool , therefore most smart players equip rage and quick thinking, 15 armour or 50 armour isnt going to really have any bearing.  Also he mentions wof duration being short, well add duration mods, my build has wof at 15 secs with no loss to range, i just dont see ember as this weak frame so many like to paint.

Meh, that combo drains energy too quickly. True, she isn't that weak but she is definitely unbalanced. She needs a rework.

 

Considering her fire ball ability i would like to see a slight increase of damage and blast radius. Oh and maybe changing the look of the fire and how it mixes up with the energy color .... throwing a fireball looks more like you slam a sack of flour into the enemies face rather than a burning ball of pain and torture .... she's supposed to be the "Fire Queen" and not a baker (could use a pice of cake now ^-^), though that would be more a secondary interest (i am using quite much though, don't I).

 

Overall i would really love to see her being viable again after the change of WoF and the removal of overheat ... and that the thread doesn't sink like a broken ship of hope in the dark depths of the forum.

 

Deep in my heart she is still kind of my favorite frame <3 and i hope DE do not just see her as a kind of filler frame so we have something that is dropped by Ruk (what was a pain in the a** to farm as the systems wouldn't drop in closed beta at a certain time, or maybe RNGesus just hated me)

 

Thanks for reading and have a nice time guys :).

Hahaha, I see this in the same way :D Sack of flour, that was hilarious.

 

Me too. It's been a year now! But still she is my most used frame <3 We had reworks of a few other frames by now, maybe it's time for her?

 

 

UPDATED IN 2.7 AND 1.2

Edited by CKN_Czarny
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Casval_Rouge

Casval_Rouge

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Posted

I didn't think someone would use my post on another thread, so thank you. 

 

I disagree with most of Casval rouge post, for example ember is just as durable as any of the frames in her situation , low shield and health with large energy pool , therefore most smart players equip rage and quick thinking, 15 armour or 50 armour isnt going to really have any bearing.  Also he mentions wof duration being short, well add duration mods, my build has wof at 15 secs with no loss to range, i just dont see ember as this weak frame so many like to paint.

 

Ember is not really that weak, you're right.  But the problems lay at the core, that's what my point was.  Is Ember useless?  No.  Is she workable?  Yes.  But is she good enough?  I would say no.  Is she even worth the effort?  Only if you really like her at a subjective level.  Because in contrast to other Warframes, she brings nothing to the team that others can't do better.  AOE?  Nova.  CC? Rhino, Nyx, Vauban and Excalibur.  Heal?  Trinity.  Speed?  Volt.  Farming?  Nekros.  DPS? Mirage.  What does Ember bring to the table?  Accelerant is nice, the stun is not bad.  The problem is the damage amp.  The entire team would have to refit their builds in order to make use of it.  Meanwhile Nova, Banshee and Mag can do the same without the refit.     

 

Again Ember is not the weakest out there.  I think Saryn, Hydroid, Zephyr, Banshee and Nekros (without desecrate) have a higher priority than Ember.  But of all the Warframes, I think Ember is the most broken at a concept level, and that numbers will not fix her.  The play style just doesn't fit the higher difficulty part of the game.  She is at most an effective low-mid level Warframe.  Once you are past that, you better bring another Warframe, or have a good team to carry you.  It doesn't matter if she is fine, she can be better.  Don't ignore the problem just because she is "fine" to you.  If she really is fine, she wouldn't have received the most overhaul out of all Warframes, nor would she still be useless on more serious levels. 

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GTG3000

GTG3000

Posted
Posted

Hm, I won't be digging up ancient posts, so I thought I'll just repost what I've suggested last time ember was all the rage.

 

1: Fireball: In addition to dealing current damage, fireball explodes, ragdolling enemies for a brief amount of time, without too much force, giving Ember a ranged CC.

2: Overheat: A toggle with 50% base DR affected by power strength (with a hard cap of 75% or 90%, not sure), proc protection, weak AoE DoT existing purely to stagger enemies in hug range.

3: Ring of Fire: Practically merges Accelerant with Fireblast. Upon cast briefly stuns everything in the area, leaving behind the eponymous ring of fire, that applies the Accelerant debuff to anything that crosses it. The enemies are debuffed while they are inside the ring or for 5/6/8/10 seconds since crossing the ring, unaffected by continuity. The ring width is affected by range.

4: World on Fire: the only changes would be to turn it into a toggle, and give it's explosions a proper AoE.

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B0N3M4N

B0N3M4N

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Posted (edited)

For me actually the biggest problems with Ember are 2:

 

1) Fire Blast: Pretty much a useless ability, very low damage and CC and a lot of time a slot wasted for something that can help you for surviving better.

 

2) WoF: Actually WoF it's a pretty good skill when it comes to the damage but the casting time and the duration of the skill completely destroys it.

 

That's why if there's gonna be an Ember Revamp I want:

 

1) Fire Blast Revamped/Changed: Actually I'll prefer the idea of changing the Ember Fire Blast with an AoE ability like the Arson Eximus one, Inflicting Proc and Knockdown to the enemies, I don't know if this should be preferred to cast like the original Fire Blast(Around Ember) or doing something like the Oberon Smite ability(aiming the target and casting the ability on him), someone prefer having back Overheat but we knows why it has been removed time ago and maybe it's not a really good idea bring it back.

 

2) WoF with an increased duration and especially a reduced casting time, really I think it's one of the slowest casting abilities of the entire game and for a Warframe like Ember it's really too much time wasted uncovered for casting the ability, making her an easy target for the enemies, plus as I said before seems not even worth that much for the fact of the duration of it, and this one sometimes it's even gonna force you to cast it multiple times which it's really really dangerous.

 

For the stats change I'll completely approve them, actually Ember it's nothing more than a slow glass cannon which isn't even that much strong, so after the revamp it's better getting her squishy than ever like Nova or Mirage.

Edited by Redskull94
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Malikon

Malikon

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Posted

Czarny,

 

I had an idea for a Fireblast rework and I figure'd I would drop it in your thread.

 

What I've thought about was as follows:

- 75 Energy

 

- Duration: about 10~12 seconds at most

 

- Enhanced by power strength mods and range mods (but not duration)

  - Power strength affects increased damage done to enemies inside the kill box.

  - Range increases the distance from Ember that the ability can be placed.

 

- Still lays a circle of fire, but does so at the cursor location instead of around Ember

 

- Any enemy that crosses the ring of fire gets a guaranteed heat proc.

 

- Regular nonflying/non-robotic enemy units get trapped inside the ring of fire, elite units can exit the ring but receive another heat proc when doing so..

 

- Enemies trapped inside the ring takes enhanced damage from all sources,

 

Thoughts?

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.Czern

.Czern

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Posted

Czarny,

 

I had an idea for a Fireblast rework and I figure'd I would drop it in your thread.

 

What I've thought about was as follows:

- 75 Energy

 

- Duration: about 10~12 seconds at most

 

- Enhanced by power strength mods and range mods (but not duration)

  - Power strength affects increased damage done to enemies inside the kill box.

  - Range increases the distance from Ember that the ability can be placed.

 

- Still lays a circle of fire, but does so at the cursor location instead of around Ember

 

- Any enemy that crosses the ring of fire gets a guaranteed heat proc.

 

- Regular nonflying/non-robotic enemy units get trapped inside the ring of fire, elite units can exit the ring but receive another heat proc when doing so..

 

- Enemies trapped inside the ring takes enhanced damage from all sources,

 

Thoughts?

Sounds interesting. It would make it a really nice trap to close corridors etc. Added.

 

UPDATED IN 1.5, 3.4, 3.5, 3.6, 3.7, 3.8, 5.2, 5.3, 5.4 and 6.2

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Azawarau

Azawarau

Posted
Posted

Call me crazy but

 

Increase the explosion radius on fireball

 

Remove stun from accelerant and lower its casting cost to 20-35 energy

 

Increase the range on Fire blast and have it stun 100% on entry of the ring and deal a small DoT to enemies in it along with a chance of being fire procced as long as they stay in on top of the initial 100% cat and entry proc(This is her new stun)

 

Make WoF into a toggle

 

Should make her able to control crowds and sustain her damage output

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HeirOfBlood

HeirOfBlood

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Posted

Overall, the best combination i've thought of would be:

- Make her fireball's blast radius bigger and make it force a blast procc instead of a fire procc.
- Make accelerant an aura as banshee's silence (i've used banshee a lot as of late JUST because the change to her silence, it's really great) Adding this factor: "Aura's duration is affected by power duration, while the debuff duration is not".
- Make her third skill similar to Arson eximus' explosion of fire -obviously with less total range, and spherical rather than cilindrical (And NOT scaling off duration to expand like nova's, but plain range)- or a focused blast at ember's cursor for plain damage, she needs some way of burst damage on her kit, and both of these would benefit heavily from accelerant to fast clear or getting rid of smaller/low lvl enemies.
- Make her WoF a toggle.

All of those would allow ember to relinquish duration to allow for maximun damage output while not having to bother -that- much at losing total DPS (A build similar to mag prime's current build would be perfect on her most likely).

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Deios-Ken

Deios-Ken

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Posted (edited)

Repost here my reply to another topic
These are my suggestions to make Ember at least usable.

 

Slightly increase the damage of all abilities (15-20%)

 

Increased armor to 50 (like Nyx Prime)

 

Give Her an extra polarity slot (Naramon or Vazarin)

 

Fireball - No change

 

Accelerant (more defensive / CC oriented) - Change Accelerant in an aura ability similar to Banshee's Silence, with all its benefitsIncreasing duration to 20 seconds

 

Fire Blast (more defensive) - Ember hits the ground releasing a portion of its inner power, which explodes, creating a ring of static fire, then pulses emitting concentric waves of high heat at the rate of one per second (XXX damage per second -100 status% chance)The waves of heat and the outer ring are 4 meters high and have a 50% chance to vaporize any projectile that comes in contact with.All damage is affected by Power Strength, and the initial damage from the explosion DO NOT decreases with distance.The Heat DoT Inflicts 50% of the initial damage per tick. For Heat procs, the damage ticks 7 times over 6 seconds.Should the initial explosion hit an enemy's head, the Heat DoT will inflict 100% of the initial damage per tick for the same duration.Ring duration is affected by Power Duration.The radius and the height of the outer ring as well as the radius and the height of the waves ARE affected by Power RangeIncrease duration to 25 seconds

 

World on fire - change it into a toggle ability 

Sorry for my bad english

Edited by Deios-Ken
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  • 3 weeks later...
.Czern

.Czern

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Overall, the best combination i've thought of would be:

- Make her fireball's blast radius bigger and make it force a blast procc instead of a fire procc.

- Make accelerant an aura as banshee's silence (i've used banshee a lot as of late JUST because the change to her silence, it's really great) Adding this factor: "Aura's duration is affected by power duration, while the debuff duration is not".

- Make her third skill similar to Arson eximus' explosion of fire -obviously with less total range, and spherical rather than cilindrical (And NOT scaling off duration to expand like nova's, but plain range)- or a focused blast at ember's cursor for plain damage, she needs some way of burst damage on her kit, and both of these would benefit heavily from accelerant to fast clear or getting rid of smaller/low lvl enemies.

- Make her WoF a toggle.

All of those would allow ember to relinquish duration to allow for maximun damage output while not having to bother -that- much at losing total DPS (A build similar to mag prime's current build would be perfect on her most likely).

I like it :) It's actually very close to my suggestion.

 

Added a nice gif in 3.1 and updated in 3.2

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