Refined Optional Subscription Idea " Prime Access Monthly "

[HiTekRedNek]

This is a refinement of the idea originally posted in this thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/324896-monthly-subscription-option/

 

I was happy to see the number of positive posts made on the original thread and I wanted to put out a more refined idea, based on the suggestion of some of the posts and discussions with clan and alliance members. The new idea is as follows: 

 

"Prime Access Monthly" 

1. 75-100 Plat each month

 

2. 30 days worth of 2 boosters at a time, which you can choose and switch from your account page; but with a minimum time before switching again of 24-48 hours. This way you can use which boosters that are useful for you at the time, but be able to switch if your situation changes and you need a different set of boosters.

 

3. A market discount of 10-15% off items

 

4. For those who have had 3 months of the monthly subscription, or who have agreed to purchase a quarterly (3 month), bi- annual (6 month), or a yearly  subscription. You will gain access to the Prime Accessories Packs as they are released. 

 

This is a more refined version of my original idea. It would be ENTIRELY OPTIONAL, and yet give more options for people who may not be able to purchase prime access packs all at once, or don't purchase them because they would rather have more useful boosters than just affinity and creds. I want to say thanks again for the ideas and the positive feedback from the earlier post, and look forward to the ideas and feedback on the new idea.

 

[Kasumi-]

I feel like this is an excellent idea, but at the moment I can't think of anything to improve upon it.

 

*raises glass* here's to a pleasant, non-flame filled thread.

[HiTekRedNek]

I feel like this is an excellent idea, but at the moment I can't think of anything to improve upon it.

 

*raises glass* here's to a pleasant, non-flame filled thread.

Thanks! Kinda miffed I typo'd in the title though lol

[zombiekiller332]

Great idea...REALLY great idea, to be more exact.

[Semshol]

I still think it would invoke the idea of pay-to-win amongst the less intelligent members of the community, who scream about that sort of thing even now on the forums.

 

I have to stand by my statement that this would be a bad-idea.

 

Prime Access already creates this divide amongst the have and have-nots and more of a divide is not positive for a F2P community.

[HiTekRedNek]

I still think it would invoke the idea of pay-to-win amongst the less intelligent members of the community, who scream about that sort of thing even now on the forums.

 

I have to stand by my statement that this would be a bad-idea.

 

Prime Access already creates this divide amongst the have and have-nots and more of a divide is not positive for a F2P community.

I'm not worried about the less intelligent people in the community. Everyone with common sense can realize that the only two things you really gain by purchasing plat, or prime access, is Cosmetic "pretty" Items, and the ability to save time, whether by rushing items, or by not waiting to get a forma/reactor/catalyst bp and building it. 

[AverageName]

In short, "No". In a longer explanation, I will try to summarize all the valid objections I see pop up on every one of the threads that shares this idea. Firstly the idea of a pay per month system, even if optional, gives all of the players the idea that people who play are on a much higher platform. Now, don't get me wrong, DE has to put food on their tables and I have donated my hefty share of stacks to that cause, but even though I can afford it, and I would like these benefits, I still disagree because there are better ways for DE to get money than this that also maintain the health of the game. Many people see games with micro transactions, like warframe, as somewhat pay to win due to speeding everything up, but that changes drastically when a subscription model is in, changing the mindset from pay to win to pay to play. This, in the long term, will drive away customers and thus money from DE because, although nothing has changed about the current ways the non-paying user may acquire platinum the perception of it has. Secondly, the current prime access program supports this idea, in a better way, $50-$60 for a nice little prime access trinket and 90 days of boosters is what you are really asking for in shorter amounts. However, your idea is worse than prime access because, as one of the main selling points for the highest costing prime access pack amount being the platinum and the boosters(for mid game players) putting those same accessories and boosters in a $15 or so package per month would hurt DE's profit tremendously as why pay $140 dollars for these boosters and discounted plat when I can farm the items, I get some plat and can trade for the rest AND I have the perma-boosters and its all for $135 less. Finally, the market discount, holy S#&$ that discount, if that affects items that cost platinum that is tremendously overpowered. I would love for my platinum to be 15% more than I buy, yes thank you, with this idea you basically increase the value of platinum when thrown into the market (Forma, Reactors, Catalysts, ect.) by 15% ... do I need to explain why giving people 15% more IRL money currency hurts DE's profits? Overall this idea, while nice for those of us who can pay it, hurts DE in the long run.

 

Tl;Dr

Perception of money model changes from P2Win to P2Play, hurting growth.

Current "Prime Access" does it better and with more profit for DE

Market discount basically cuts 15% of DE's income, if the platinum is spent at the market.

Overall, good in short term, terrible in long term.

[Semshol]

I'm not worried about the less intelligent people in the community. Everyone with common sense can realize that the only two things you really gain by purchasing plat, or prime access, is Cosmetic "pretty" Items, and the ability to save time, whether by rushing items, or by not waiting to get a forma/reactor/catalyst bp and building it. 

 

Common sense is what they lack and DE will face more people creating threads and crying about it on the forums. Yet even these folks have a place in the game.

 

F2P is a delicate balancing act that requires the non-paying players to not feel as though they've been completely slighted by the game and its jarring as it is, when the market purchases are currently ALL highlighted in platinum when you first get into the game.

 

Anything that creates more of a gap encourages more complaints and creates less retention.

 

So if a community is what we are trying to build, this is definitely not the way to do it.

[HiTekRedNek]

In short, "No". In a longer explanation, I will try to summarize all the valid objections I see pop up on every one of the threads that shares this idea. Firstly the idea of a pay per month system, even if optional, gives all of the players the idea that people who play are on a much higher platform. Now, don't get me wrong, DE has to put food on their tables and I have donated my hefty share of stacks to that cause, but even though I can afford it, and I would like these benefits, I still disagree because there are better ways for DE to get money than this that also maintain the health of the game. Many people see games with micro transactions, like warframe, as somewhat pay to win due to speeding everything up, but that changes drastically when a subscription model is in, changing the mindset from pay to win to pay to play. This, in the long term, will drive away customers and thus money from DE because, although nothing has changed about the current ways the non-paying user may acquire platinum the perception of it has. Secondly, the current prime access program supports this idea, in a better way, $50-$60 for a nice little prime access trinket and 90 days of boosters is what you are really asking for in shorter amounts. However, your idea is worse than prime access because, as one of the main selling points for the highest costing prime access pack amount being the platinum and the boosters(for mid game players) putting those same accessories and boosters in a $15 or so package per month would hurt DE's profit tremendously as why pay $140 dollars for these boosters and discounted plat when I can farm the items, I get some plat and can trade for the rest AND I have the perma-boosters and its all for $135 less. Finally, the market discount, holy S#&$ that discount, if that affects items that cost platinum that is tremendously overpowered. I would love for my platinum to be 15% more than I buy, yes thank you, with this idea you basically increase the value of platinum when thrown into the market (Forma, Reactors, Catalysts, ect.) by 15% ... do I need to explain why giving people 15% more IRL money currency hurts DE's profits? Overall this idea, while nice for those of us who can pay it, hurts DE in the long run.

 

Tl;Dr

Perception of money model changes from P2Win to P2Play, hurting growth.

Current "Prime Access" does it better and with more profit for DE

Market discount basically cuts 15% of DE's income, if the platinum is spent at the market.

Overall, good in short term, terrible in long term.

1) The amount of money is only a difference of around 5$ when compared to the Prime Accessories Pack

2) The majority of people who spend money one the game typically wait for a discount anyway

3) The discount was meant to be on the credit items only, not the plat ones, but I would leave that decision up to DE, maybe a 15% off credit items and like a 5-10% plat stuff

4)When it comes to Prime Access all you really get is saved time and pretty stuff, because you don't have to go and grind for the items and you get some armor and a weapon accessory.

[Semshol]

1) The amount of money is only a difference of around 5$ when compared to the Prime Accessories Pack

2) The majority of people who spend money one the game typically wait for a discount anyway

3) The discount was meant to be on the credit items only, not the plat ones, but I would leave that decision up to DE, maybe a 15% off credit items and like a 5-10% plat stuff

4)When it comes to Prime Access all you really get is saved time and pretty stuff, because you don't have to go and grind for the items and you get some armor and a weapon accessory.

 

It's not about the actual benefits.

 

It's about the PERCEPTION of said benefits.

 

When the F2P players know that there is a monthly subscription (even if it is optional) they will feel slighted because no matter what benefits are given, it is still seen as a divide which in turn hurts player retention.

 

Again, it's not about the actual items given, even if they are only cosmetic. The problem is how the subscription itself will be perceived by the non-paying playerbase and let me tell you straight up, it will not be received well.

 

This point has been highlighted by many other players.

[HiTekRedNek]

It's not about the actual benefits.

 

It's about the PERCEPTION of said benefits.

 

When the F2P players know that there is a monthly subscription (even if it is optional) they will feel slighted because no matter what benefits are given, it is still seen as a divide which in turn hurts player retention.

 

Again, it's not about the actual items given, even if they are only cosmetic. The problem is how the subscription itself will be perceived by the non-paying playerbase and let me tell you straight up, it will not be received well.

 

This point has been highlighted by many other players.

In all honestly, if people are lacking common sense enough to think that you can pay to win this game, then I respect that they have the right to be intellectually challenged in their views. A small amount of research with a minimal amount of basic perceptual based skills and they should be able retain the information required long enough to realize that what I posted in my previous posts is true: "Everyone with common sense can realize that the only two things you really gain by purchasing plat, or prime access, is Cosmetic "pretty" Items, and the ability to save time, whether by rushing items, or by not waiting to get a forma/reactor/catalyst bp and building it. "

 

WITHOUT PAYING PLAYERS FREE TO PLAY GAMES DO NOT EXIST

Edited October 17, 2014 by HiTekRedNek

[fatpig84]

Seems fine to me.

More ways for DE to keep a float is always fine for me.

[AlphaHorseman]

In all honestly, if people are lacking common sense enough to think that you can pay to win this game, then I respect that they have the right to be intellectually challenged in their views. A small amount of research with a minimal amount of basic perceptual based skills and they should be able retain the information required long enough to realize that what I posted in my previous posts is true: "Everyone with common sense can realize that the only two things you really gain by purchasing plat, or prime access, is Cosmetic "pretty" Items, and the ability to save time, whether by rushing items, or by not waiting to get a forma/reactor/catalyst bp and building it. "

 

WITHOUT PAYING PLAYERS FREE TO PLAY GAMES DO NOT EXIST

We know this, sure. But HiTekRedNek right though, the rest of the community that doesn't pay is going to see this as an affront. They're not going to receive this kind of news well, and DE is going to have to deal with a massive hellstorm that could ultimately be more detrimental to the game than positive.

[TriggerHappyWhiteGuy]

Kinda already have this but in a less restrictive form. Basically you can call the Prime Access Accessory pack the 3 month subscription that is optional because it comes with 90 day credit and affinity boosters+free armor. Then you can buy straight plat and use that to choose your boosters that you want every month. 

 

We get 20% off coupons a good amount so if you get your plat then you wont need to have the store discount 10-15% off.

[Semshol]

In all honestly, if people are lacking common sense enough to think that you can pay to win this game, then I respect that they have the right to be intellectually challenged in their views. A small amount of research with a minimal amount of basic perceptual based skills and they should be able retain the information required long enough to realize that what I posted in my previous posts is true: "Everyone with common sense can realize that the only two things you really gain by purchasing plat, or prime access, is Cosmetic "pretty" Items, and the ability to save time, whether by rushing items, or by not waiting to get a forma/reactor/catalyst bp and building it. "

 

WITHOUT PAYING PLAYERS FREE TO PLAY GAMES DO NOT EXIST

 

I understand your point of view. Believe me I do. The problem is you are assuming people are logical, they are not and will not be.

 

I understand that paying players are unnecessary. Everyone on the forum probably understands that.

 

Yet, we still see threads popping up from time to time about: pay-to-win, plat is hard to get, make more things free, reduce grind etc.

 

Please understand I am not trying to counter you, I am just urging you to think about what the implications of such a thing would be. It is better to keep a monthly style hidden and locked away out of sight, while encouraging what appears like one-off transactions, to appease the folks that get all gremlin-like once something that appears to divide P2P and F2P appears.

We know this, sure. But Semshol right though, the rest of the community that doesn't pay is going to see this as an affront. They're not going to receive this kind of news well, and DE is going to have to deal with a massive hellstorm that could ultimately be more detrimental to the game than positive.

 

Fixed that for ya, I'm the one against it for the reasons you mentioned lol.

[HiTekRedNek]

Kinda already have this but in a less restrictive form. Basically you can call the Prime Access Accessory pack the 3 month subscription that is optional because it comes with 90 day credit and affinity boosters+free armor. Then you can buy straight plat and use that to choose your boosters that you want every month. 

 

We get 20% off coupons a good amount so if you get your plat then you wont need to have the store discount 10-15% off.

That's kinda where the idea came from, dividing the amount by the length of the boosters, but having the idea for more useful booster than just creds and affinity. It's still a bit of a work in progress, but I'm pretty happy with the idea of it so far.

[wolf96781]

You again? First off posting the same thread multiple times is bad

Second, this is a F2P which means Free To Play. What that means is there are no, or almost no, subscription fees. DE's current model  works just fine and doesn't need to be changed to a more restrictive version than it already is (Which it isn't)

[HiTekRedNek]

We know this, sure. But HiTekRedNek right though, the rest of the community that doesn't pay is going to see this as an affront. They're not going to receive this kind of news well, and DE is going to have to deal with a massive hellstorm that could ultimately be more detrimental to the game than positive.

 

I understand your point of view. Believe me I do. The problem is you are assuming people are logical, they are not and will not be.

 

I understand that paying players are unnecessary. Everyone on the forum probably understands that.

 

Yet, we still see threads popping up from time to time about: pay-to-win, plat is hard to get, make more things free, reduce grind etc.

 

Please understand I am not trying to counter you, I am just urging you to think about what the implications of such a thing would be. It is better to keep a monthly style hidden and locked away out of sight, while encouraging what appears like one-off transactions, to appease the folks that get all gremlin-like once something that appears to divide P2P and F2P appears.

 

Fixed that for ya, I'm the one against it for the reasons you mentioned lol.

I'm not assuming it at all, I simply know that anyone who thinks this game has any possibility of being pay to win in its current state, or even if this were implemented, would be wrong. Pay to win would be if only the people who paid money had access to more powerful equipment than the free to play members, which is not true. If you pay, all you get is to save some time and have easier access to "pretty stuff." Changes in a game should not be dictated by people who do not learn the facts and decide to assume things and cry about something they are wrong about. Personally I have a little bit more respect for the community as a whole, and think that a large majority of the community has the knowledge to realize this. 

[HiTekRedNek]

You again? First off posting the same thread multiple times is bad

Second, this is a F2P which means Free To Play. What that means is there are no, or almost no, subscription fees. DE's current model  works just fine and doesn't need to be changed to a more restrictive version than it already is (Which it isn't)

Ummm...... If you actually read it you would see that it is not the same thread. It is a more polished idea that came from suggestions made by people from the previous thread, and people that I was discussing the idea with personally.  Thanks to a moderator the other was locked and people could redirect here. As far as for the rest of your post, please do your research. There are plenty of free to play games that have optional monthly subscriptions; Star Trek Online, Defiance/Rift/ArcheAge, The Secret World and Star Wars The Old Republic, just to name a few, all strong games with strong community bases, ALL WITH OPTIONAL SUBSCRIPTIONS. Once again I'll say it, whether you or anyone else likes it or not, WITHOUT PAYING PLAYERS FREE TO PAY GAMES WOULD NOT EXIST ,this is just an idea for another option for people to be able to help support a game we like playing. 

[AverageName]

1) The amount of money is only a difference of around 5$ when compared to the Prime Accessories Pack

2) The majority of people who spend money one the game typically wait for a discount anyway

3) The discount was meant to be on the credit items only, not the plat ones, but I would leave that decision up to DE, maybe a 15% off credit items and like a 5-10% plat stuff

4)When it comes to Prime Access all you really get is saved time and pretty stuff, because you don't have to go and grind for the items and you get some armor and a weapon accessory.

1.) This is not the point I meant, I meant the platinum AND the pack, on the nyx prime access pack we saw that the boosters and prime access gear cost about $50 while the same boosters and gear with 1360 or so plat cost around $60 dollars(to upgrade to from the previous pack, making the total monetary gain received by DE $135 more when compared to yours.), I was saying that this discounted plat with this gear is why some people buy the highest pack, because who does not want around $50 worth of plat for $10, or if you insist on looking on it the other way, 2-3k plat worth of boosters for $10 with their $50 purchase of plat, IMO The combo of the gear, boosters and plat sells the highest tier of the current prime access, taking half of that away can and WILL hurt profit.

2.) I don't understand which point of mine this was to counter? if you made this in contention of the prime access stuff, you can't use a discount on that and my points were saying this would hurt the sales of the current prime access and do less for DE than it currently does.

3. Ok, if its credits only you may have a start here, but even if the discount is 5-10% its still losing DE 5-10% profit as people will spend 5-10% less plat still.

4.) Doesn't matter. If a new player sees that a paying player can have any combination of two of: 2x exp, 2x credits, 2x resources, 2x resource drops what will they think? I contend that the average player may think that a paying players time is literally worth twice as much as his. This is not a good perception to have as you literally give the paying player twice of everything that the non-paying player gets. Again this is about perception not about actuality, we want the people who first look into this game to be drawn in and having to pay $15 a month for my time spent to get somewhere not to be doubled arbitrarily is a huge turn off. Also, in the past (Ember and Rhinoob prime access) have given FUNCTIONAL bonuses to those who sell out, doubling the resources their extractors give, so your point about this being just cosmetic is not always true.

Edited October 17, 2014 by AverageName

[HiTekRedNek]

1.) This is not the point I meant, I meant the platinum AND the pack, on the nyx prime access pack we saw that the boosters and prime access gear cost about $50 while the same boosters and gear with 1360 or so plat cost around $60 dollars(to upgrade to from the previous pack, making the total monetary gain received by DE $135 more when compared to yours.), I was saying that this discounted plat with this gear is why some people buy the highest pack, because who does not want around $50 worth of plat for $10, or if you insist on looking on it the other way, 2-3k plat worth of boosters for $10 with their $50 purchase of plat, IMO The combo of the gear, boosters and plat sells the highest tier of the current prime access, taking half of that away can and WILL hurt profit.

2.) I don't understand which point of mine this was to counter? if you made this in contention of the prime access stuff, you can't use a discount on that and my points were saying this would hurt the sales of the current prime access and do less for DE than it currently does.

3. Ok, if its credits only you may have a start here, but even if the discount is 5-10% its still losing DE 5-10% profit as people will spend 5-10% less plat still.

4.) Doesn't matter. If a new player sees that a paying player can have any combination of two of: 2x exp, 2x credits, 2x resources, 2x resource drops what will they think? I contend that the average player may think that a paying players time is literally worth twice as much as his. This is not a good perception to have as you literally give the paying player twice of everything that the non-paying player gets. Again this is about perception not about actuality, we want the people who first look into this game to be drawn in and having to pay $15 a month for my time spent to get somewhere not to be doubled arbitrarily is a huge turn off. Also, in the past (Ember and Rhinoob prime access) have given FUNCTIONAL bonuses to those who sell out, doubling the resources their extractors give, so your point about this being just cosmetic is not always true.

1) I understand what you're saying, the point I was making, was to introduce another option for the lower tier accessory pack. Say you subscribed to my idea, you would still have the option to spend more and get the higher tier packs. With that said, the idea of this was to introduce a better and more attractive idea than the current 90 day boosters (which honestly, unless I have just forma'd something, or there is new equipment released, I don't need the affinity booster, and I really don't need a credit booster), and another option for people who might be interested in the accessories pack and don't  mind grinding for the new gear in the game.

2) I wasn't a counter point as much as it was a statement tied into the initial point of your post. I've played the game for a while, and I have spent a fair amount of money over the time I have been playing; nothing extreme, but mainly enough here and there to grab a couple of the pretty things I wanted and some forma/reactor/catalysts when I may not have a bp left; not to mention some slots here and there. I don't mind grinding, but every once in a while I need some plat. The trade system was a nice addition, but let's face it, trade chat can get annoying real quick; sometimes it's worth just spending 10 bucks than dealing with stupidity.  With that said, most people I know that don't normally buy the prime access stuff, but do spend some money on the game, tend to wait til the get a log in discount so they get the best bang for their buck. Personally I think that they represent a large majority of the people in the community that spend money on the game. 

3) I was mainly talking about credits in the first post, but the idea for a small discount on plat items wouldn't be bad. They already do the darvo deals here and there; and, like I said before, most of the guys I know wait for a 50-75% discount anyway, before spending money, and most of them have said they like the idea that they could get the accessories and have a more useful booster option would be worth 15$ a month, with or without a market discount, I just liked the idea when it was presented in the first post, and it's not unheard of, many of the games that have optional subscriptions they offer small VIP discounts.

4) Really, an Extractor is your answer to the only thing that wasn't just a cosmetic upgrade.......I mean really? Can you actually name anything else( not including the original founders pack items, or that has been taken out during updates(snipe tron, ether daggers, etc.), or event weapons no longer available) that is not cosmetic, that a player cannot grind and get in the game right now? I contend, believe, and really hope, that the average players have more common sense and understanding than what you and a few others have described them as having. Basically the defense I keep hearing is that the normal player in the community don't have the intellectual ability to realize the truth. No offense, but that's kinda mean, and belittling to alot of the community. I mean really "I contend that the average player may think that a paying players time is literally worth twice as much as his" and  "the problem is you are assuming people are logical, they are not and will not be," are the views being presented here by the negative people in this thread. I personally don't believe that. Yes there are people out there that will assume things, but to say a majority or "the average player" the way you guys are, kinda makes me a little sick and offended.

[AverageName]

Well, I'm sorry. I have stated my points and while we can go back and forth all day here we may just have to agree to disagree on this topic, but I think I need to clarify a few points before I rest my case and let DE decide. 1. I did not mean to insult the "Average player", you are literally making a $15 pack that makes the non-paying players time worth half as much as a paying players, IMO that is a turn off, especially when first joining a game and also, yes I do believe doubling your passive resource income (extractors) is perceived as not cosmetic even though we all have more alloy plates than will ever use. Secondly I understand that most people only spend when on discount but I still think making the money 5%-10% more efficient is not the best when you are already 4x'ing the efficiency of the money they pay. Thirdly, again if its only credits I have no issue with the market discount. Finally, I understand you offer a lower tier access pack for the accessories and boosters, but the money efficiency that the pack offers, IMO will take away sales from our current highest tier packs, and again, you bring up how the current boosters are not attractive to you, but to a new player the platinum and the boosters are attractive and they may want to save time in not grinding the new shiny prime gear while picking up mad discounted plat. Either way I think more ideas for DE to improve this game, in any way, are good and while I disagree with the implementation of this idea I want to thank you for being outgoing enough to put your idea forward for public review, and while many have brought up this idea in the past, maybe, in the future we may find a model that will work for us all. While I do not see that resolution happening as of now, again, thanks and best of luck.

Edited October 17, 2014 by AverageName

[HiTekRedNek]

Well, I'm sorry. I have stated my points and while we can go back and forth all day here we may just have to agree to disagree on this topic, but I think I need to clarify a few points before I rest my case and let DE decide. 1. I did not mean to insult the "Average player", you are literally making a $15 pack that makes the non-paying players time worth half as much as a paying players, IMO that is a turn off, especially when first joining a game and also, yes I do believe doubling your passive resource income (extractors) is perceived as not cosmetic even though we all have more alloy plates than will ever use. Secondly I understand that most people only spend when on discount but I still think making the money 5%-10% more efficient is not the best when you are already 4x'ing the efficiency of the money they pay. Thirdly, again if its only credits I have no issue with the market discount. Finally, I understand you offer a lower tier access pack for the accessories and boosters, but the money efficiency that the pack offers, IMO will take away sales from our current highest tier packs, and again, you bring up how the current boosters are not attractive to you, but to a new player the platinum and the boosters are attractive and they may want to save time in not grinding the new shiny prime gear while picking up mad discounted plat. Either way I think more ideas for DE to improve this game, in any way, are good and while I disagree with the implementation of this idea I want to thank you for being outgoing enough to put your idea forward for public review, and while many have brought up this idea in the past, maybe, in the future we may find a model that will work for us all. While I do not see that resolution happening as of now, again, thanks and best of luck.

1. Hate to break it to ya, but the people that already decide to put money into the game get to choose if they want to speed things up already. I people think that means that the paying people time is worth more, is just being foolish.

2. Resource Boosters are an advantage, OMG we need to take them out of the game, they are pay to win, REALLY? Let's see, what do they really do? Hmmmmmm....... you get more resources in less time... What does that mean you ask? You save time by not having to farm and grind as long. Wait a minute, isn't that what I just said in the last three responses? Summation again, what adcantages do you really get if you decide to spend some money on the game..... pretty stuff and the ability to save time. 

3. I agree that we should probably agree to disagree.... although I still don't understand a lot of the reasons behind the whole "Pay to Win" argument that keeps coming up in the first place. I'm assuming since you did not mention or answer my question; "Can you actually name anything else( not including the original founders pack items, or that has been taken out during updates(snipe tron, ether daggers, etc.), or event weapons no longer available) that is not cosmetic, that a player cannot grind and get in the game right now?" you basically conceded on that point as well? 

[Scryed]

We already have it, its called prime access you are just paying for 3 months in advance if you buy the 140 dollar one, no need for subscriptions, its already here, you just buy it in bulk.

[HiTekRedNek]

We already have it, its called prime access you are just paying for 3 months in advance if you buy the 140 dollar one, no need for subscriptions, its already here, you just buy it in bulk.

Yes it is loosely based on the pricing of the Prime Accessories Pack, and if you wanted to pay extra to get the actually prime warframe and weapons released, you could pay the difference to unlock them, but the main thing I would like to see is a rework of the boosters and the option to change them, because honestly credit and affinity booster are rarely going to be of any use for me, and a lot of the players out there that have been playing for any length of time.

Edited October 20, 2014 by HiTekRedNek