Ember Doesn't Need A Ability Change Or Rework; She Just Needs A Buff.

[Aktriaz]

EDIT: Okay okay, since most people are saying "she just needs to get a rework" I'm going to update the main page for a little more reasoning behind my point. Ember has gotten the short end of the stick when it came to stats, which is especially odd since she is one of the warframes that encouraged running into the middle of the enemy in battle. Overheat was Ember's way around her "glass cannon" theme, but since that was removed, she lost a whole lot of survivability, and as the game got more difficult with poison and bleed procs and more advanced enemies, there was a quick decline of Embers.

 

Yes, Ember needs an ability rework, but wouldn't that melt down to my opinion of how Ember should be played, which may or may-not conflict with yours? Sure, a stat buff isn't going to save her, but it's a start from a neutral ground, as in I'm not screaming "BRING BACK OVERHEAT"

 

If you have some ideas of what to do with Ember's abilities, that's great, this warframe needs some love. Just, when I say be "constructive", I mean don't say "no", say "yes, and", or just "or" or just don't; make your own thread if you care about Ember that much. 

 

I get that I may have brought this on myself by putting "she doesn't need a rework" in the title, and that was not my intent, nor my actual point.

================================

 

Most of Ember's abilities encourage her to run about through the enemies, but her stats don't quite fit with this.

 

Average shields and health, average speed and stamina, low armor. Good energy pool. That's it.

 

I think she could use a good buff across her stats. Speed, Armor, Health and Shields could all use a good bump to make her more durable in the heat of battle... eh? eh? okay... I'll stop...

 

I was thinking something along the lines of;

 

120 Shields

120 Health

65 Armor

1.15 Speed

 

With Overheat gone, she could use some more durability, and the speed boost is LONG overdue.

 

I'm pretty sure Ember is the least used warframe as of late. I've seen maybe one in the last month...

Edited October 22, 2014 by Actriaz

[011100110110000101101101]

She just needs Overheat back.

[Ailith]

Hell, I would be happy with just the movement speed boost, I feel like I'm trying to run through quicksand every time I use her.

 

As for a more ability-focused change, what if enemy armor was (increasingly) shredded based on how long they've been on fire (or how much fire damage they've taken from Ember's abilities), making her abilities more effective (for the whole team) while also giving Ember players an incentive to set the world on fire other than pretty fireworks?

Edited October 19, 2014 by Ailith

[taiiat]

increasing Survivability stats won't do much for Ember since she still relies on pure DPS to be useful.

 

which means she generally isn't.

[GinKenshin]

glad to see another ember lover and fan, though I play her just fine with the way she is, a buff will sure make her more awesome and make my fall for her even more

and to the future "ember is a bad frame" people.....please don't bother posting in here 

EDIT: overheat was great, but she doesn't need it, I play her just fine, and as for the speed boost buff, it's kinda logical.....fire spreads out very fast, and she's a fire-based warframe, so why not?

Edited October 19, 2014 by Kenshin98

[Imaru]

A buff to her stats would definitely be a good start. Were I at DE I would recommend they buff her stats, then step back. Look at the feedback and adjust her skills accordingly 

[Ailith]

She just needs Overheat back.

I wish DE would make a special warframe just for you people, it'll be a floating ball of ashes called Overheat, its only ability will be Overheat, and the only mod you can equip is Overheat. The ability was amazing because it was the only good ability on Ember. Now her entire kit is much better overall, though it's still not in a great spot due to low damage numbers and the damage being reduced by armor.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Ailith

[GinKenshin]

I wish DE would make a special warframe just for you people, it'll be a floating ball of ashes called Overheat, its only ability will be Overheat, and the only mod you can equip is Overheat. The ability was amazing because it was the only good ability on Ember. Now her entire kit is much better overall, though it's still not in a great spot due to low damage numbers and the damage being reduced by armor.

good thing I wasn't around when that mod was on....then I'll be like these overheat crazed people 

[SoulEchelon]

She just needs Overheat back.

 

No.

 

To the OP, I totally agree. All of her current abilities are actually really cool. It's just that they underperform due to both her squishiness and their current stats. I think she needs more 100% fire proc myself. Could even have her abilities spread to enemy after enemy, giving them a chance to be caught on fire. Then again that might undermine Saryn...Or perhaps not. Saryn's poisonous procs are higher in damage, but don't do much in the form of actual stun. Ember could be the DoT Stun proc'er while Saryn keeps her higher damage DoT procs. Win-Win.

[011100110110000101101101]

I wish DE would make a special warframe just for you people, it'll be a floating ball of ashes called Overheat, its only ability will be Overheat, and the only mod you can equip is Overheat. The ability was amazing because it was the only good ability on Ember. Now her entire kit is much better overall, though it's still not in a great spot due to low damage numbers and the damage being reduced by armor.

It's not my fault she and along with every other DPS based warframe is completely useless at the higher levels.

 

I do like Accelerant, but she is just too squishy, Overheat remedied that.

 

Personally, I like OPs suggestions, however I feel that Overheat would be a better solution rather than just buffing her.

 

EDIT: But she REALLY needs that speed buff.

Edited October 19, 2014 by 011100110110000101101101

[Azawarau]

The speed buff does nothing but encourage speeding through lowtier missions and abandoning your allies

 

She can already outrun shots unlike slower frames (Rhino,Saryn) so shes good to go there

 

An increase in stats wouldnt hurt but really doesnt get to the core of embers issues

 

65 armor wont really change much in terms of defense either

[Jinryusai]

The speed buff does nothing but encourage speeding through lowtier missions and abandoning your allies

Or rather keeping up with your allies.

 

If you are ahead, you make things easier on them.

 

Her and Frost are turtles...And not the Ninja variety.

 

Ya know, you are one of the most negative persons on this forum. You never fail to disagree with any buff.

[Azawarau]

Or rather keeping up with your allies.

 

If you are ahead, you make things easier on them.

 

Her and Frost are turtles...And not the Ninja variety.

 

Ya know, you are one of the most negative persons on this forum. You never fail to disagree with any buff.

Frist is slower than ember

 

Half of the frames are 1.0 speed so its average, not slow

[Malikon]

I dunno, giving her a speed buff does remedy one problem.  Since her kit needs all the mod bonuses (duration, efficiency, strength, and range), that leaves startlingly few slots for other things that greatly benefit her, like Natural Talent, Redirection, or Rush.  Specifically Rush.  The "slowbies" Azawarau mentioned, Saryn, Rhino, and Frost, doesn't need ALL of those different mod bonuses, so easily can make room for a Rush mod.  Plus Saryn and Rhino both have Arcane helms that increase speed.  Don't give me the inevitable arguement that arcane helmets arent distributed anymore, because they are readily available to anyone on the trading channel for plats.  Ember, however, has an arcane helmet that REDUCES SPEED for health. 

 

An increase in base run speed for Ember will allow her to keep up with her allies and actually make decent use of her PBAoE abilities without forcing specialty melee weapons to make up for the lack of mobility.

 

Another way to remedy a great many problems is to add some utility (guarenteed procs) to all her abilities, and make some adjustments to her kit regarding what mod bonuses affect her skillset.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Malikon

[Chroia]

Ran a (melee-only) caster-primary Ember like this through a T2S the other day in a PUG, just for kicks.

 

Did just fine until the mobs hit level ~35 or so.

Suddenly, not only could I not 1-2 shot a heavy with Accel + 1 or 2 Fireballs, I couldn't even down a Lancer.

I was much less effective after that, and the squad extracted ~5 minutes later.

 

Do I suck? Possibly. But that doesn't explain or excuse the precipitous drop in combat effectiveness as well as damage falloff vs. scaling does.

So, while I'd like Ember to be a bit faster, it's not what will make-or-break her. I'm with taiiat on this.

[akira_him]

she doesn't need a status buff or overheat

pure damage from abilities has proven useless in late games since damage 2.0 is out

give her more CC for abilities instead of a useless 2(or less) seconds stun

problem slove

===

edited

nova does have a useful damage skill but that depends on the gun you are using so I am not talking about that in this case

Edited October 19, 2014 by akira_him

[Jinryusai]

Frist is slower than ember

 

Half of the frames are 1.0 speed so its average, not slow

Still slow...

Ran a (melee-only) caster-primary Ember like this through a T2S the other day in a PUG, just for kicks.

 

Did just fine until the mobs hit level ~35 or so.

Suddenly, not only could I not 1-2 shot a heavy with Accel + 1 or 2 Fireballs, I couldn't even down a Lancer.

I was much less effective after that, and the squad extracted ~5 minutes later.

 

Do I suck? Possibly. But that doesn't explain or excuse the precipitous drop in combat effectiveness as well as damage falloff vs. scaling does.

So, while I'd like Ember to be a bit faster, it's not what will make-or-break her. I'm with taiiat on this.

Accelerant needs a lower cost...

[Azawarau]

I dunno, giving her a speed buff does remedy one problem.  Since her kit needs all the mod bonuses (duration, efficiency, strength, and range), that leaves startlingly few slots for other things that greatly benefit her, like Natural Talent, Redirection, or Rush.  Specifically Rush.  The "slowbies" Azawarau mentioned, Saryn, Rhino, and Frost, doesn't need ALL of those different mod bonuses, so easily can make room for a Rush mod.  Plus Saryn and Rhino both have Arcane helms that increase speed.  Don't give me the inevitable arguement that arcane helmets arent distributed anymore, because they are readily available to anyone on the trading channel for plats.  Ember, however, has an arcane helmet that REDUCES SPEED for health. 

 

An increase in base run speed for Ember will allow her to keep up with her allies and actually make decent use of her PBAoE abilities without forcing specialty melee weapons to make up for the lack of mobility.

 

Another way to remedy a great many problems is to add some utility (guarenteed procs) to all her abilities, and make some adjustments to her kit regarding what mod bonuses affect her skillset.

Making WoF into a toggle leaves you more than enough room to add rush to your build

 

The solution is there

 

Still slow...

Accelerant needs a lower cost...

Learn to dodge

 

I wouldnt mind the lower cost but again

 

Making WoF into a toggle helps this greatly

[akira_him]

Still slow...

Accelerant needs a lower cost...

so why won't you copter with dual zorens or other quick melee weapons

[Brimir]

She needs a rework.

 

Fireblast is totally pointless between Accelerant and WoF.

 

It should be replaced with an ability that is not a PBAoE in order to give her some more diversity in her kit.

[JuanPoker]

She needs a rework.

 

Fireblast is totally pointless between Accelerant and WoF.

 

It should be replaced with an ability that is not a PBAoE in order to give her some more diversity in her kit.

^ this

[Azawarau]

She needs a rework.

 

Fireblast is totally pointless between Accelerant and WoF.

 

It should be replaced with an ability that is not a PBAoE in order to give her some more diversity in her kit.

Theres nothing wrong it it being PBAoE

 

The issue is accelerant does it better for less

[Brimir]

Theres nothing wrong it it being PBAoE

 

The issue is accelerant does it better for less

 

And you don't see any correlation between the two at all?

[Azawarau]

And you don't see any correlation between the two at all?

Changing fire blast to the eximus version or giving it a healthy range increase would solve the issue

[Brimir]

Changing fire blast to the eximus version or giving it a healthy range increase would solve the issue

 

Well, if you are happy with a copy-paste solution I guess. It is preferable to keeping it as it is now after all. However, I still believe that spicing up her kit with a new non-PBAoE is the ideal solution.