Eric1738 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) As you may have noticed, currently archwing takes warframe's health, shield and armor value into its stats. I think it shouldnt, because right now, there is liittle reason to use a squishy warframe in archwing mission unless you want to challenge yourself. warframe stats are set around their abilities. for example, loki probably has the worst stats in this game, but he has arguably one of the best defensive mechanics. however, in archwing mode, loki is basically the same as rhino, but worse stats. players will eventually use valkyr only because of her high armor, thus high effective hp. this deters devisity. edit: In conclusion, warframe's health, shield and armor mods should still work on archwing, but each archwing should have their own stats. Edited October 25, 2014 by Eric1738 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 i concur. using them as stat boats doesn't make sense if that's all they do. therefore tying Cosmetics to stats, since your Warframe is basically a Cosmetic thing in your Archwing, just that stats are being pulled from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryouhi Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 my thoughts exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolidayPi3 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I feel the same way. I mean, Frost is cool and all, but I'm totally enamored by Nyx... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latronico Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Each tool it's own purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClockworkSpectre Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Rather than the archwing having its own HP/shields etc. It should still draw those from the warframe, but the warframe chosen should have some sort of effect on performance. Something that would give a tradeoff/benefit for using a squishier frame, maybe more speed or more agility. Maybe make heavier frames like Rhino fly slower and handle like a slug. As of right now, there is little reason to use something other that Rhino or the like while using archwing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric1738 Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 Rather than the archwing having its own HP/shields etc. It should still draw those from the warframe, but the warframe chosen should have some sort of effect on performance. Something that would give a tradeoff/benefit for using a squishier frame, maybe more speed or more agility. Maybe make heavier frames like Rhino fly slower and handle like a slug. As of right now, there is little reason to use something other that Rhino or the like while using archwing. that's the harder way around. DE needs to give archwing unique traits from each warframe(x21). and it's not easy to balance. for example, say loki gives more melee damage, how much is sufficient to compensate low hp and shield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClockworkSpectre Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 that's the harder way around. DE needs to give archwing unique traits from each warframe(x21). and it's not easy to balance. for example, say loki gives more melee damage, how much is sufficient to compensate low hp and shield? Even if it is the harder way, I think it is the right way. Archwings are just attachments to the warframes, they should modify but not replace the warframes. That is why I think That there needs to be draw backs and benefits to using different types of warframes with the Archwings. And yes I realize it would take them awhile to do this. They could even make it were caster frames get enhanced power strength or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifted Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 They should either add more that's being pulled from the warframe you're using or remove the stat boost completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinVole Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Well, I believe there should be a balance. If you just reduce a warframe to being a cosmetic piece for the wings then you defeat the purpose of choosing any warframe, just kinda bland in the opposite extreme where everyone only "appears" different but in the end are just the same. Conversely I see the point of it taking directly from the Warframe yet being just the same except squishy or beefy is unbalanced. Honestly I think the hard way is ultimately the best way, to have frames offer some buff or nerf to the way they handle/excel at. Some characteristic of the frames themselves going into the wings.That being said, I wish I had my Zephyr built by now for sheer redundancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WiiConquered Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 that's the harder way around. DE needs to give archwing unique traits from each warframe(x21). and it's not easy to balance. for example, say loki gives more melee damage, how much is sufficient to compensate low hp and shield? Well he's also fast. Archwings (once there are more) should have their stats be some type of formula comparing Warframe stats to the inherent Archwing stats. Max power could be warframe power*1.0 for a basic Archwing and warframe power*1.5 for a caster. Max health could be warframe health*0.8 for a basic Archwing and warframe health*1.2 for the tank Archwings. Max speed could be Warframe speed*25 for a basic Archwing and warframe speed*30 for a quick Archwing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CY13ERPUNK Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 i was actually really surprised that archwing did not use a similar system to the kubrow mods ie the kubrow mods give yer pup bonuses based on both the mod and the base frame stats thus i was expecting the archwing mods to similarly boost yer archwing mode stats, based on their mods and yer base frame (yes you would still have the issue of squishy frames, but i dont think it would be as bad as it currently is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostXeno Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 I think each frame should have a passive ability when they have archwings equipped. I think that would allow some interesting synergy and still make it matter what frame you're using, otherwise the warframe themselves just becomes cosmetic skins for the archwings and have no actually influence on how they preform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechaKnight Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Agreed. I'm surprised there isn't much talk on the issue, but I'm sure users will post when their archwings are done building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunRii Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Now that I have most of the mods, and can kill crap with levelled archwings I can use my Valkyr. That doesn't mean it's the correct choice. If things go bad for whatever reason, my frost/rhino will survive and my valkyr will probably die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inks84 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I agree with the hard way people mentioned..but yes +1 OP though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkitakaG Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 In my opinion as long as everyone stays patient and watch it grow it will only get better. Now i do use frames that are light in the butt then other frames and find surviving in higher lvl archwing areas a chore, but its still fun. Now as for the archwing using the frames stats and boosting it a slight bit is fair and better then making a unit that attaches to your back and override the core stats of your frame. If the archwing were to have its own stats like a warframe it would be more like a mobile armor then a flight pack that attaches to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someguy316 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I polarized a slot on my Excalibur since the ability change, and I went to do the first archwing mission which had the corpus ship frozen over and Excalibur at Rank 7 doesn't have that much shields. I made it through the ship okay but once I was out in space with unranked archwing equipment it didn't end too well. Switched to my rank 30 Frost and it was way easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithloniel Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Uh... yep. Archwing shouldn't rely on Warframe loadouts and base stats. Not only will this make players automatically gravitate towards frames with higher health/shields/armor values, but will also force players to run "Archwing Loadouts" optimized for high health/shields/armor. This means, they are building without taking other game play into account. If more missions were to by "hybrid" missions, both on ships and in space, a balance would be required, which would deal with this problem; however, I think this is the worst-case solution. By running hybrid missions, players are forced to consider what they want to put greater emphasis on: archwing combat or ship combat. Ideally, a player should be able to build their archwing to suit their needs in space, and build their frame to suit their needs on ships/planets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScorpDK Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 well...technically...the archwing is a back-mounted jet with weapons... ... ... it's not an exoskeleton/armor wrapped all around you, so some of that actually makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R34LM Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) well...technically...the archwing is a back-mounted jet with weapons... ... ... it's not an exoskeleton/armor wrapped all around you, so some of that actually makes sense. Warframe has a poor balance between what makes sense and what is desirable in gameplay (radial blind, anyone?). Currently, you are very limited to what frames you can use, since you can't use their abilities that counteract their statistical downfalls. Frost has become my designated pilot. So yes, Archwings should have base stats of their own, but be affected by Warframe mods. Edited October 27, 2014 by R34LM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryouhi Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 well...technically...the archwing is a back-mounted jet with weapons... ... ... it's not an exoskeleton/armor wrapped all around you, so some of that actually makes sense. The problem is, there zero reason not to use Mag/Zephyr/Rhino or anything that has high shields and/or Health, since abilities take no effect in archwing mode So i might wanna see my Ember fly around in space, but in the end all i accomplish by doing that is gimp myself. Yes, it does make sense in a way, but i think in this case it should be gameplay over logic^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndantony Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 ...if Archwing is not an extension of a Warframe, or a Warframe is driving a ship then that would make sense. But here's a Warframe and his/her Archwing are supporting each other; so, no, it's working fine as is in this respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueminator Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) Well do they linked archwings power capacity and speed with warframes? Edited October 27, 2014 by Hueminator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Reyno Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I think each frame should have a passive ability when they have archwings equipped. I think that would allow some interesting synergy and still make it matter what frame you're using, otherwise the warframe themselves just becomes cosmetic skins for the archwings and have no actually influence on how they preform. This. Though I think having one active ability would work too. Loki being able to go invisible in Archwing for a time, for example, or disarm enemies for a time. Excal has a super dash attack Trin can restore ally health and shields Mirage creates her usual clones Limbo goes into the rift And so forth. It'd probably take them some time, but I think it would be more than worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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