Major Game Breaking Flaw For Those Who Chose Veil/meridian As A Syndicate.

[Sebastianx]

First of all, I beg any mods that see this to not move this to another section (since general discussion is the most active section), DE needs to urgently see this, instead, if possible, try to show this to one of the DE devs as soon as possible, then move it to another section.

 

!!!WARNING!!! A lot of logical thinking is required from this point on, you have been warned.

 

 

^ I'll leave that there for you to see the current connections between the factions.

 

Now, let's begin. By now, some of you have figured out that if a friend invites you to his daily Syndicate missions, you can hop in and get the (plus) points for said faction and lose (minus) points for the 2 factions that opposes it, effectively getting a 3rd faction without any downsides to your existing 2 allied ones.

 

Well, I picked Veil, and my friend picked Perrin, and I was like "hey, you can hop in on my quest, get your red veil to 5000 points, and get your own red veil quests which you can do every day to have a third faction!". And after he checked that he won't lose points to either Perrin OR Loka  by doing Veil quests, we began, and after we finished the quests I decided to hop onto his Perrin/Loka dailies (which one doesn't hate red veil or meridian) to get myself a 3rd faction as well to 5000 so I can get my own dailies from there on.

 

But then...it hit me...here comes the part that took me 2-3 hour to figure out.

 

 

Take a look at that, It's the same graph that I posted above but arranged differently.

See anything strange when it comes to the 2 allies Red Veil & Steel Meridian?

Exactly. together they face ALL other factions making it impossible to find that 3rd faction that ignores one of them in a hate manor, it simply is not there.

Look for example at:

- Loka & Perrin = TOGETHER they have no bad connection with Red Veil (meaning both Loka and Perrin players can farm Veil for quests without any drawbacks to their allied faction)

-Cephalon & Arbiters = TOGETHER they have no bad connection with Steel meridian (meaning both Cephalon and Aribiters can farm Meridian quests without any drawbacks to their allied faction)

 

See the problem? If you didn't notice by now, I can't possibly show it to you any better.

 

Now bear with me, here comes the possible solutions to this:

 

1. The missing link.

This solution aims at removing the possibility of any faction at having a 3rd faction as an ally through questing.

As you can see, the missing bad connections between the factions I have mentioned above are being shown here.

What DE can do with that is beyond my imagination, but still I'll leave it here, because it's part of the problem.

 

2. Opposing? I'm not opposing anyone.

This simple solution just removes the opposition between the factions.

Now it's simply just 1 ally, 1 enemy and 3 neutrals.

 

This needs an example, so let's take Perrin:

You equip the Perrin sigil and get 100% points for Perrin and 50% points for Loka with -100% for Steel.

 

But no, If you say that doing Veil quests would also increase the rep of Meridian by 50%, keep in mind that means you're still using the Perrin sigil on so you're also losing -100% with them.

And again if you think that you can get more than 1 faction as neutral, you're wrong, because doing both Veil and Arbiters quests would cancel eachother out due to their lose of -100% points with eachother, so you can pick only one of them if you want a 3rd faction that doesn't affect your 2 allied ones.

 

3. They hate me? So what? I don't care.

 

This one is a bit different, it doesn't change a faction's ally or enemy but instead it makes so that every faction works on one principle and that is : "The enemy of my ally is my enemy"

This just makes things even more strange, I know, but bear with me.

 

Take a look at Perrin again, they're allied with Loka, but Loka's enemy is Suda, thus Perrin will lose -50% points against Suda and -100% with Meridian.

NOW take a look at Veil, their ally is Meridian, and Meridian fight Perrin, thus Veil also fight them making Veil sigil users lose -50% to Perrin and -100% with their enemies Arbiters.

 

BUT that means in order to make this system work, one faction does NOT care about his enemy's allies attacking them. That's why the Veil fights Arbiters and Suda helps the Arbiters by fighting the Veil, but the Veil is occupied with helping HIS OWN ally fight his enemy.

 

It's more of a "I'd rather take hits from my enemy's ally and help my own ally fight his enemy while he helps me fight my enemy"...similar to "You scratch my back, I scratch yours" kind of bond between allied factions.

 

This one is probably the best solution since it gives a fair chance to everyone no matter what faction you play while still having some degree of variation.

 

 

 

Well, that took a LOT to write and I hope I made it as clear as possible to why the system is broken and how it can be (somewhat) fixed, the only thing I can hope now is for DE to take a look at this and figure out which course of action is needed. And let's face it, this needs to be fixed fast, now while the Syndicate system is fresh and changes won't upset that many (if any).

Edited October 28, 2014 by Sebastianx

[http404error]

Oh, I see what you mean. You make a good case, well done.

[SlyBoots]

good catch. look at your second pic for an easy fix:

 

all you need to do is let suda and loka switch opponents or perrin and hexis switch enemies.

Edited October 27, 2014 by SlyBoots

[Eric1738]

er, it doesnt matter too much though. the net standing gain is always 0(not really, if u reach the lower boundary).

Edited October 27, 2014 by Eric1738

[gnat6]

Good point this definitely needs to be fixed especially since I chose meridian/veil as my factions although honestly I don't care how its fixed as long as it is fixed.

[Sebastianx]

er, it doesnt matter too much though. the net standing gain is always 0(not really, if u reach the lower boundary).

My friend, who has Perrin as main faction, gets points for Loka because of it, and he can do Veil quests and lose points to neither Loka or Perrin...so that's 3 faction with no loss to any of them, and ALL the factions have a 3rd faction like that, besides Veil and Meridian.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Sebastianx

[xethier]

well... i see your point.

 

to operate within the system as it stands, you'd need to operate as suda / hexis / steel -- OR -- loka / perrin / veil

operating as veil / steel leaves you at a disadvantage. which is odd, considering they're allies.

 

it seems that the two primary "groups" are veil or steel, even though they are, technically, allies. 

 

there *may* be some sort of lore being ramped up with this and all you've done is catch it. or it may be a design oversight.

 

regardless, good catch.

[TrinityPrime]

I guess your definition of major game breaking flaw that needs to be urgently addressed is a bit different from mine.

 

You have 6 factions each of which has 3 connections and connections have to go both ways (maybe not in the same magnitude).

 

No matter how you reconnect them you will get the same result of 2 faction pairs being unconnected to one faction with the last faction pair connected to the other four factions.

 

That's just how they set it up, it in no way looks like a game breaking flaw or oversight that needs to be urgently addressed.

 

This is like the OCD players complaining about Split Chamber having 90% multishot chance instead of 100%.

Edited October 27, 2014 by KnotOfMetal

[Burq]

While I think the thread title is a bit dramatic, you do make a very good point, good catch!

[Sebastianx]

While I think the thread title is a bit dramatic, you do make a very good point, good catch!

Well it is true, the more I play as Veil and Meridian the more I decrease to my potential future allied faction, which could result in hours upon hours of lost work, if not days! 

[Eric1738]

My friend, who has Perrin as main faction, gets points for Loka because of it, and he can do Veil quests and lose points to neither Loka or Perrin...so that's 3 faction with no loss to any of them, and ALL the factions have a 3rd faction like that, besides Veil and Meridian.

i know what u mean. if u dont main veil or meridian, u can have 3 syndicates positive to you. but if u main veil or meridian, u can play missions of those two and rank up in those two faster, because they are allied! 

in case u want to change your syndicate later, the amount of time to negate minus standings is approximately the same.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Eric1738

[RoboDoge]

Yeah, i realized that first day when i chosen SM as my syndicate. I am not regretting anything as taking more than two factions to the top ( after i realized how painful is to bring one to max ) was never my intention.

[TechMagick]

From what I can tell, this setup doesn't prevent a Veil/Meridian player from having a third faction. They just have to work a little harder for it. For example if a Veil player runs Cephalon missions, yes they will take a hit on Veil, but only a 1/2 hit. Then they can just do a regular Meridian mission to offset the loss. Even if it was a full loss, they can always run more missions with a Meridian sigil to offset it.

Edited October 27, 2014 by TechMagick

[Sebastianx]

 

Yeah, i realized that first day when i chosen SM as my syndicate. I am not regretting anything as taking more than two factions to the top ( after i realized how painful is to bring one to max ) was never my intention.

 

Ya I know but some of us are willing to work for 3 factions at once if none of them get point reductions from the other.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Sebastianx

[Sebastianx]

From what I can tell, this setup doesn't prevent a Veil/Meridian player from having a third faction. They just have to work a little harder for it. For example if a Veil player runs Cephalon missions, yes they will take a hit on Veil, but only a 1/2 hit. Then they can just do a regular Meridian mission to offset the loss. Even if it was a full loss, they can always run more missions with a Meridian sigil to offset it.

Ya but that would triple the time it would take to get one to max, which is hard as hell to begin with, don't want to work three times as much for something that others can work once just because I chose Veil/Meridian.

[Gammaion]

This requires urgent attention - and you have a brilliant solution.

[TechMagick]

Ya but that would triple the time it would take to get one to max, which is hard as hell to begin with, don't want to work three times as much for something that others can work once just because I chose Veil/Meridian.

 

It's not triple the time, not even close, because when you're doing Steel Meridian missions to offset the Red Veil rep loss you're also working toward maxing Steel Meridian.

[KaptainK3nny]

I Realized this already and just went on with life :c

[BrazilianJoe]

Yes, This is a severe problem, and should be fixed at or before 15.1. Relationships are imbalanced amongst syndicates, making some of them bad choices. 

 

DE should look into it ASAP.

[Sebastianx]

Yes, This is a severe problem, and should be fixed at or before 15.1. Relationships are imbalanced amongst syndicates, making some of them bad choices. 

 

DE should look into it ASAP.

Too bad for the people not visiting the forums that probably aren't even realising this, every passing minute makes them put points into a faction they may be neutral with in the near future if DE fixes this.

[AbaliskInfinite]

I wouldn't say this is a game breaking flaw that has to be in General Discussion instead of General Feedback, but I still give OP a +1

[Toppien]

we need more syndicates to fill that hole in the net

[Tails-san]

For added fun, the way this works out actually allows one to ally themselves with FOUR syndicates.

 

Switch back and forth between Arbiters and Perrin.

 

After one mission for each for 100 standing:

 

Blue are gains, red are lost, black is final values.

[Blazer-X]

My little strategy right now (that may or may not work out):

 

I am doing Steel Meridian alone at the moment. By the time I get everything in Meridian (assuming I actually spend the Catalyst... please change this, DE), I will also be very high up in Red Veil. HOPEFULLY high enough to actually also get everything I need off of Red Veil. If not, I will simply continue running Meridian until I am done with Red Veil, before switching over to Arbiter/Cephalon.

 

This is sorta my way of pulling off "4 factions" without having to level anything from negative (by putting it to very high positive to begin with).

[RoboDoge]

My little strategy right now (that may or may not work out):

 

I am doing Steel Meridian alone at the moment. By the time I get everything in Meridian (assuming I actually spend the Catalyst... please change this, DE), I will also be very high up in Red Veil. HOPEFULLY high enough to actually also get everything I need off of Red Veil. If not, I will simply continue running Meridian until I am done with Red Veil, before switching over to Arbiter/Cephalon.

 

This is sorta my way of pulling off "4 factions" without having to level anything from negative (by putting it to very high positive to begin with).

Advice, take rank 1 with RV also as you will get access to their dailies. And when you do them, 50 % reputation will go to SM.