Archwing: We Need A 3D Radar Instead Of The Minimap For Deep Space Combat

[perfectStranger]

When i'm doing deep space combat seeking enemies on the minimap or the expanded map it feels like impossible, it is like it's not the right tool for the job.

 

I remember when i played Homeworld's franchise games they had a very nice way to make you understand where the enemies where and what was like the space around you, even lacking horizon in the landscape, but yet keeping up and down fixed in navigation, exactly like the archwing game mode.

 

So i'd like to have a 3d radar instead of a map with ap or down arrow for enemies and WPs, see in the video around 7m52s how 3d objects get represented
http://youtu.be/LmXB0ZO2gnk?t=7m50s

 

The basic ideas are:

- place this radar as the extend map, but centred on the screen, maybe lower than the where the archwing is placed on the screen when minimized and in the very centre of the screen when expanded

 

- represent it as a sphere, whit a floating disc representing the horizon; this should look different if looked from above  or looked from the bottom (colour/hue/texture...?)

 

- represent distance on XYZ axis as logarithm, in this way it is more clear to orient toward close targets (since they would be more fairly spaced from you when clustered close to you) because it is right there where the mess is, as for very distant targets they are more likely to be placed on the map, even if near the borders, instead of not even be placed like it is now

 

- represent the distance of a target on the XY axis by drawing a line from its place in the radar space parallel to the Z axis collapsing on the radar horizon, then mark where the line collapse with a circle onto the plane of the horizon, thus parallel to it.

The circle could vary in size/colour/shape basing on the nature/size ot the target represented.

The line connecting the target in the radar to it's fall impact point on the radar horizon could change colour/texture if falling from above or from the bottom of the horizon.

 

- (added) represent far targets on the radar by dimming down their alpha, to not clutter the radar with unimportant data

TL;DR look at these images

 

 

 

This is not homeworld and it is way to cluttered, so don't take it as a final idea, but it has the same concept for 3d space representation

 

 

(Added: quick mock up, yeah i know the example i took is waaaay tooo cluttered))

Edited October 28, 2014 by perfectStranger

[Corvid]

Agreed. It's far too ambiguous as it is now.

[Octoknightx]

Don't know about you, but when I look at those maps my head hurts...

[WERElektro]

Don't even have to be so complicated...

I think a 3 dimensional arrow in front of us would do.

 

But overall, I agree to op.. something must be added to make navigation less painful.

[Khawz]

Meh, i find it easy to use this map, better than those 3d maps. And in sabotage missions once you memorize the tiles, it also gets easy to navigate.

[ClockworkSpectre]

I was intending to make a post with a similar suggestion as well.  For the open space maps the current mini map is near useless, I would really like to see some sort of radar like display replace it.  We also need other space combat staples like incoming missile warnings.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ClockworkSpectre

[Firetempest]

The current mini map is fine, we don't have the time and screen space to study a more complex map.

They could change the white arrows showing level over the target icons though. They overlap and become a mess of info.

 

The best way is to solve it more like a flight sim and put better info into the hud. Right now everything pops in or disappears too easily and gives poor indication of whats currently around you. And so much screen shake... so much.

 

Also more waypoint locations within ship tilesets as they can point the completely wrong direction on the map as its showing the tiles exit in relation to you, not the tiny vent that leads to the shaft that then loops back to the next room.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Firetempest

[perfectStranger]

Don't know about you, but when I look at those maps my head hurts...

 

 

Don't even have to be so complicated...

I think a 3 dimensional arrow in front of us would do.

 

But overall, I agree to op.. something must be added to make navigation less painful.

 

when you see it in action, interacting with the movements or your viewport, it will seem more natural, but as a static image is not that clear

[MM209]

Yes, this needs to happen.Navigating using a 2D directional system in space is almost as bad as not having any navigation assist at all.

[Dualstar]

Much better idea; Engagement Radar.

 

Enemies within a certain range (400m currently, i think) show up as icons which are displayed around the circumference of the screen (or a HUD border)

 

Is simple, yes?

Edited October 28, 2014 by Dualstar

[perfectStranger]

The current mini map is fine, we don't have the time and screen space to study a more complex map.

They could change the white arrows showing level over the target icons though. They overlap and become a mess of info.

 

The best way is to solve it more like a flight sim and put better info into the hud. Right now everything pops in or disappears too easily and gives poor indication of whats currently around you. And so much screen shake... so much.

 

Overlaying too much data could lead to a mess, it has to be properly placed i agree, and i'd like to be below where my warframe is on the screen

 

It definitely need some work, it is not that easy, it's just an idea from a concept that can be used, and the implementation is not what i think or have shown in images but it is left for further development by the game designers

Edited October 28, 2014 by perfectStranger

[WSkD]

These 3D maps/ radar maps~ *;o;* Homeworld. It would be so good~

[perfectStranger]

These 3D maps/ radar maps~ *;o;* Homeworld. It would be so good~

 

glad to find some supporter who played homeworld too back in the days :)

i remember some missions in the end when you had the hell of hundred enemies in the map and without THAT space 3d representation i would have gone just plain mad

[Grulos]

When I played Archwing missions the first time, I thought "man, we need the map from Homeworld".

 

And then comes this thread!

[ZenBlade01]

It would make things much easier if they simply added on screen markers for any waypoint/targets that are showing on the mini-map on your screen as well.  Similar to the like hexagon that points out targets on the ground like capture targets or bosses.  They could simply be there when the targets are not in your field of view, then when you pan over to them, go away and the standard HUD elements take over.  Seems consistent with the UI IMO.

[perfectStranger]

It would make things much easier if they simply added on screen markers for any waypoint/targets that are showing on the mini-map on your screen as well.  Similar to the like hexagon that points out targets on the ground like capture targets or bosses.  They could simply be there when the targets are not in your field of view, then when you pan over to them, go away and the standard HUD elements take over.  Seems consistent with the UI IMO.

 

this also would do for the HUD, maybe if they at least scale icons bigger for closer targets and more alpha transparent and smaller for distant enemies, but doesn't really make you more aware of the space around you... i mean the representation is schematic but far from natural and also this doesn't solve that the map as it is now is kind of useless

Edited October 28, 2014 by perfectStranger

[rajule]

3d radar would be nice, I think if there were hud indicator arrows in addition to the mini map I think  that'd be enough to get by as well. my issue is I see on the map it says an enemy is below me in front, but I don't know how far below me. like a 45 degree angle or straight down? if there were hud markers for all enemies with in map range that that'd make it much easier to find them.

[Firetempest]

Its not just the map that makes things hard.

It is the current hallway wall running game engine and using it for a large open space flight sim. (interception game type problems)

Just look at the mechanics of Strike Suit Infinity.

http://youtu.be/7HAXYk93zIk?t=3m42s

Locking on or just actually just seeing enemy units across the game arena.

unit engine trails to identify friendlies and foes, their speed and movement direction instead of icons popping up all over, you follow trails which are functional, minimalistic and aesthetically pleasing

Different overhead camera angle that shifts, better suited for a 360 bubble of movement.

 

If they cant change the engine to better suit open space combat with substantial changes. Maybe they should restrict maps to the same trench design as corpus ships, leaving us to fight area to area like on a large asteroid. Because right now, the corpus ship maps are pretty decent. Way markers need help, but the maps just work because its the same formula as ground combat.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Firetempest

[Inversus]

Current 2d map does not work :/

[CatPhoenix]

I'm sorry, but those 3d radars have got to be some of the worst things I have ever seen for the purpose of a mini map.  Those are incredibly detailed radar maps that can tell you nothing if you were to glance at it for 1-2 seconds.

 

Not sure what sort of solution that I could suggest that could be done in short order.  Different colors above or below you?  Or colored arrows instead of white arrows by the dots?

[FractalMind]

I agree, it's really hard to pinpoint enemies in the grineer archwing map using the 2d radar.

 

This issue was resolved 30 years ago in the game Elite. A simple vertical stick + head is all that's required.

 

 

Those modern takes on the same theme seem unnecessarily cluttered.

Edited October 28, 2014 by FractalMind

[victor_victory]

Open world archwing missions are a pain in the &#! because i need to spend a few good second to find where my enemies are. Especially when they are attacking in all angel. A 3D mini-map would help a lot.

[Radiegle]

How about a ZoE type radar ring around the frame?

 

 

But instead of that clutter, maybe limit it to seven of the closest enemies and also show incoming homing missiles so we can actually use Odonata's flares properly without visual confirmation of said missiles.  All color coded of course with arrows and stuff.  Maybe give the ring a detection range of around 500m so we can still keep the mini-map for objects way over that distance.

If there's nothing within detection range, the ring simply disappears.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Radiegle

[(PSN)madguy132]

For people who are okay with the current map: We have to anticipate the moment where there are 10-20 enemies surrounding us, then we look at the current 2D mini-map, you can tell that it is very difficult to assess the enemies location due to the 3D natural of space. Therefore a 3D minimap will allow more fluidity when engaging enemies.

[OmegaDrago]

I agree we need a 3d mini map I sure DE can find a simple but effective solution to this that everyone can agree on I mean come on archwing is much more fun that I thought it would be despite the bugs they got this.

Edited October 28, 2014 by OmegaDrago